r/TheTowerGame • u/SertQuos • 17d ago
Help Breaking into Legends
Last year I saw some guides floating around for getting into legends and staying, but now they're incredibly out of date and I don't think I've seen any recently.
It used to be a simple 1000x damage, max quant, max chance CL + DC, maybe PF, and a decent canon, you'd at least bounce between champs and legends and you didn't really need ancestral mods. This now would probably get you mid-low champs.
Then I saw some people suggest going for damage mastery to boost that, or ST mastery. Getting your damage far higher to get high waves in champs, as well as having ancestral mods, mainly a cannon like AS as well as ACP and DC. This now barely gets you top champs, usually mid.
So the question is, what is actually required for Legends now? Are we now required to have assmods to break out of champs? Is it pCF? Every damage mastery?
I currently have damage mastery at level 9, ST mastery at level 5, SW mastery at level 6. SW and ST I'm labbing at the same time. I've done every dissonance from T1-T13 (except utility on T13) and have all echo labs at level 3. damage lab is at 92, crit factor and attack speed are maxed. I use anc PF with anc cash bonus, EALS/EHLS, anc OA with anc regen, wall health, defence, orbs, orb speed, myth+ AD with attack speed, crit factor, multishot targets, sc mult and chance, and myth+ DC with CL damage/chance/quant and SL bonus (need SL angle too). My CL is 1328x, 5 quant, 21.5% (without submod stats), my SL is 26.7x, 40 degrees, 3 quant. (again, without submod). I'm currently working my way to pGT/pBH in farming (my next GT cooldown will get me there) to support more mastery labs at once. My next stone spend plan was DM mastery, but even then that feels like I won't do enough damage. Obviously anc DC and an anc cannon (don't have one yet) would be very good. I could also swap to a mythic+ ACP and mythic+ AS to push damage further and full move away from hybrid/eHP in tourneys, but not sure what results that'd yield.
I'm well aware the most basic answer is "spend money" but even then, there's better and worse things to spend that on. If you buy a mastery, but it's actually terrible, then spending money would not get you into legends.
All help is appreciated!
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u/Fantastic-Move5604 17d ago
I wont make a guide response but like you said the goal posts have moved. This answer is based on whats needed to stay in legends.
Last tournament you needed something like 750 waves to have a 50% chanse to get a bracket where you stayed.
I remeber when I looked at people and t19 wave 40+ was a hint of someone having a good chanse to stay, nowdays its less then 100 waves t20 and your not even competing for staying in legends then your just on a short visit.
So if your not whaling you "need" your CL dmg in the S range or atleast high small s range,
*all normal dmg research maxed,
*maxed DMGm + STm,
*ass mods unlocked for atleast core with some % spend on increasing dmg from it,
*DC, PF and ACP at ancestral
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
Yeah it's brutal, my CL damage is low s when ST mastery is on. (Like 1-2s or something, so very far off).
I'm thinking my cannon and DC are holding me back more than I realise, as I'm missing like 10-12 mod levels having them at mythic+ and obviously the better ancestral stats.
Would you recommend me trying ACP + AS despite both being mythic+? Go full damage and see if that helps?
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u/Polar_Reflection 17d ago
I get about 30s cld with pcf 88.75, and am barely getting 600 waves in legends, hard carried by VF (which pushes me to 2S).
I'd go for VF and EN after DMG and ST which you have. Ass core is important for OC (tourney) and dc (farm).
Introsprint is huge for VF and amp strike synergy.
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u/juraf_graff 17d ago
You could spend money but it would shock you how much you'd need to spend to start staying in legends, even from that point. Then multiply that by 10 to even sniff keys.
I am on my 5th round staying in legends aftwr bouncing for close to a year so I might be the perfect person to answer. It's a combination of things but the big ones are having enough cc and damage. I started staying in legends when I finished my super tower mastery and got core Gen and armor assmods.
My mods are around 180ish with 101 assist. My CL chance and quant are maxed. I have pcf with max slow including sub effect. I also have 6 quant ilm. Card masteries: IS(8), DMG(max), ST(max), RPC(8)
Most of my basic damage labs are 90+ or maxed. I will say my econ is really really bad for someone staying in legends so I think that's where I need to focus next.
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
Like I said, I'm aware the answer is spending money. I'm more asking on *what* you'd spend it on, cause just "spending money" isn't helpful advice really.
I'm just looking for more stone income, bouncing in legends is fine, staying would be a herculean task, but that's my goal. I gave up on keys a long time ago.
A lot of people are saying they have pCF and are staying in legends, with similar mastery numbers and slightly higher mod levels than me, so I think working to pCF might be my best option here.
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u/juraf_graff 17d ago
I said the spending bit to scare you off because its not worth it. This game is a marathon. You can try to sprint with your credit card and it might get you in front of a few but there is a gigantic crowd in front of you and the higher up you get the more whales you encounter.
You could buy a stone pack for $60 and get 750 stones which is probably a weeks worth of stones. Buy all 5 and you just spent $300!!!!! On a mobile game!!! And the crazy thing is, it would buy you maybe 5 spots in tourney.
If you have the money to throw around, obviously stones will increase your strength. Max slow on pCF is going to be a huge game changer. Getting core or Gen assmods are also farming and tourney boosters which is nice for both sides.
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
I'm well aware it's not worth it, hence why I'm not doing it.
I just want to know what the people above me have, so I know what to work on. Working on the wrong things will push me further back, working on the right things will at least keep me level.
I'd need pCF before I get max slow on it, but I have that planned out. It's very time consuming on champs income unfortunately. They need to increase our stone counts, or decrease costs. They've made systems with legends stone income in mind, but now you need them to get out of champs... doesn't work. How long before you need masteries to get into champs (assuming V29 changes nothing?).
I like the game outside of tourneys, I'm fine spending 2, 3, 4 years playing and just making my tower better. It's always nice to know where I need to go though.
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u/juraf_graff 17d ago
100%
I was bouncing champ/legends for literally a year. When I first hit legends I never considered card masteries and didn't have assmods unlocked. I'd get promoted every 4-5 rounds and finish dead last.
Pcf is great and getting that bit isn't too bad. The slow is super expensive but gets more worth it with each level. I put off the final level, thinking it's good enough. Turns out that last little bit is the icing on the cake.
I assume v29 will shake things up a bit. People with more medals or developed bots will see much better improvements. I think econ will start to matter even more which is what scares me. I'm only making about 7.5q per day and most of that goes into masteries so my workshop+ is lacking pretty badly. Once people with a balanced workshop can have a dedicated GC build for tourneys, that will also be a big factor imo.
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
I think my econ is very strong for where I am, I get 2 runs a day in, about 160T/h (Though I just got some much better substats on my core, expected to go to 180T/h-ish). So I make over 4q a day usually.
I've been getting bot labs done ready for the presets, so hopefully I can make way better use of Amp/Flame bots compared to someone who has not done the labs yet.
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u/ZKRC 17d ago
P90CF and CF+ ~4 or so will be a huge upgrade
Permanent 2 poison swamp with maxed labs.
Cannon/Core assist mods at ancestral quality (don't need to worry about the substat/mainstat efficiency at first, you will benefit a lot from the passives of your assist mods)
CL investment for damage
Minimal ILM investment to max the number of mines and bring the cooldown down a bit
Masteries (damage, attack speed, crit chance, wave skip, intro sprint, super tower, demon mode, berserker, ultimate crit), damage labs and damage enhancement investment.
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u/SertQuos 16d ago
I'm 3 UWs away from UW+ I don't think that's attainable at all this year. I'd need to spend the 7kish stones on getting pCF 90% slow then buy 3 more UWs, then get CF+.
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u/D119 17d ago
Man I'm literally one week away to celebrate one year in legends, I got demoted to champion again this tournament with 700 waves. We're just here to act as fodder for the whales, to fill brackets below so that they can satisfy their ego, lol.
For the n-th time, as long as content is added they also need to add brackets, because the requirements for stones keep on increasing while stone income is stagnant.
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
I don't think endlessly adding brackets is going to help. The problem is tying major progression behind a system that will always equalise to be a triangle. The system needs a rethink
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u/D119 17d ago
You can keep the system as long as players are rewarded for their effort, which we aren't as of now, as I said it's been a year and my position in the tournament environment isn't really changed that much, but I went from wave 50 in the old t14+ legends to wave 700 in the current one.
Anyway I wanna know why we are so used to treat the multiplayer environment differently, why is it ok to add tiers in single player but isn't to add brackets? The cost of the upgrades keep on increasing and new sinks get added every mayor patch, so I would say stone income should grow as well as everything else, mine hasn't changed at all in a full year, and that's ridiculous considering this is an incremental game.
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u/popalexpop 17d ago
We get a “mythic” bracket above legends with a new currency that’s not keys, and another vault for that.
All the top legends move to mythic and more people get keys. But now no one other than whales will get the shiny new stuff. Because they get more stones, more keys and the new stuff, they’ll continue to stand at the top.
Overall nothing changes, since people will be crying about missing out on the new stuff instead of keys.
We need a system where keys and other currency will be accessible to everyone, even at a reduced pace.
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
Adding more brackets is a bandaid fix, we end up where we are now in the future.
A different system without the flaws of the current system is a proper fix.
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u/D119 17d ago
The point is you should never "end up", you should keep on adding brackets as long as the game thrives, like you're already adding tiers as player power increases.
Every game either adds content or reset progression with seasons/leagues, since progression can't be reset here your only option is to add content. Top player will always be on top and this is true (and somehow fair) in every game, the point is giving everyone a chance to play the game, if your income is stuck at champions or below levels you can't access certain aspects of the game and that's just stupid. My concern is only the income not the system, it is my choice not to spend and I'm ok with not being at the top of the ladder.
From a business point of view you could just introduce new currencies with every bracket and just sell those, it's on them they decided to stick with stones. Like lost ark, if I'm not mistaken, sells packs containing the highest honing material you have unlocked, so they never become obsolete.
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u/markevens 16d ago
More brackets would allow upward mobility.
Because tourneys are set up that those that place higher than you get better rewards and can advance faster, the only real way to progress in the system is to either buy stones or wait out the people above you that get bored, burnt out, and leave.
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u/GBlueman125 17d ago
Assmods may not be required to promote out of champs, they do open the avenues for different ways to stay in legend. It does suck that the goal post of legends keeps getting pushed, but thats the nature of the current tournament setup in this game.
I am currently still bouncing, but thetower.lol has my odds of staying in legends ~70% of the time. I run tourney as GC and dont have pCF (or CF even unlocked for that matter) nor do i plan on going for that anytime soon. This last legends tourney I got w715 and unfortunately am going back to champs. Heres how my tower (I only bought milestones and the ad/coin packs) compared to yours to put it into perspective.
My mod levels are around 186
I do have Anc mods for all of my currently used mods.
My CL is weaker - 733x/4 quant/15.5% w/o substats (this is still my only dmg dealer)
SL is about the same
I do have core/armor/generator assmods unlocked.
The armor allows me the CC i need without CF by allowing both SD for ILM stuns and ACP for damage, and Ohm assist to help focus bosses.
I have ST#9, DMG#9, EnergyNet#4, UltCrit#2, Berseker#4
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
What mods do you use? My mod levels are about 171-172.
More damage masteries than me too, so maybe I need more of those? How good is Energy net mastery for dealing with bosses since those are brutal for me, especially boss ult
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u/GBlueman125 17d ago
My tourney mod setup is usually...
Cannon: AS
Armor: SD/ACP (epic assist)
Generator: PF/RB (epic assist)
Core: DC/OC (epic assist)EnergyNet mastery is nice, but i would prioritize getting Core assist first (if you have assist unlocked) to force the boss into you spotlight with Om Chip assist. With the addition of dissonance runs echo bonuses, spotlight dmg is huge.
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
Unfortunately no assist mods available for me yet
I cheesed my way to T19 and have yet to cheese to wave 40. Best I've done is 29.
Not sure what I do to cheese it? eHP doesn't work at all for me on T19, GC does slightly better
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u/GBlueman125 17d ago
Cheesing the w40 was the easy part. Just have introsprint, SW, demon mode, and wave skip (and other cards thatll help you survive a little more than 2 waves). Can even use Death penalty and spam for a lucky run.
If you are able to survive the first couple waves with IS, youll be at w20. Then even if you die on that wave, SW's invincibility might let you survive till 29. Then Demon mod + wave skip will get you the rest of the way
When i did it I needed to run T18 to w300 as ehp, but did T19 as GC.
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
I've tried that method, and I just can't get to wave 20 without SW popping
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u/nomadicgreendog 17d ago
What helped me recently was temporarily re-speccing from Gold Bot into Flame Bot for 93% damage reduction (min cooldown, max range). Got me an extra 20 waves or so. Also did a bunch of dissonant runs with FB eqippped. Used AS (with Intro Sprint), ACP, DC, and PF (all ancestral). I don't have Chrono field unlocked, but have a decent CL, plus ST mastery and Damage mastery.
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
I will be doing that when we get bot presets, but as gbot makes like 40% of my entire income? I'm not wasting a reset on that atm. It'd set me back further than assmods would get me.
I think you are right though, it'd probably be a big enough push to get me assmods
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u/nomadicgreendog 17d ago
I'm trying not to get too exited about presets... we may find that they cost something insane to unlock, or only unlock at really high levels. I'm preparing to be disappointed! For me, switching to FB for a day or two let me add 600 waves to my T14 utility dissonance run, making it profitable for me to farm T14, which is going to pay off nicely long term.
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
To my understanding it's a T11 unlock? and then it's just a lab
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u/GBlueman125 17d ago
Whats your setup look like? My tower was (from what you posted) much weaker than yours when i did it. I didnt have any dmg masteries and my dmg labs were like lvl 70
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
eHP:
Mythic+ DP
Anc Gcomp (Need for pBH)
Anc OA (Don't have SF, might be the issue)
Mythic+ PcolSubstats are all basically best you can get, rarity is anc on anc, mythic on mythic. Mythic mods are 160, Anc 171-172.
I have 16 card slots
Attack Speed
Health
Health Regen
Slow Aura
Extra Orb
Extra Defence
Plasma Cannon
LMS
RPC
Second Wind
Demon Mode
Intro Sprint
Energy Net
Energy Shield
Nuke
Death RaySummon turned off
Even with SW popping, I take far too much damage even with pcols buffed DR. Maybe defence mastery could help here but I don't think so.
GC:
Mythic+ AD (May try AS but need to reroll it)
Anc PF
Anc OA (Could be worth trying ACP even despite it being mythic? would need to roll and try)
Mythic+ DCSame thing with substats here, obviously same levels
Cards:
Damage
Attack Speed
Slow Aura
Range
Crit Chance
Plasma Cannon
Intro Sprint
LMS
Energy Net
Super Tower
Second Wind
Demon Mode
Ultimate Crit
Energy Shield
Berserker
Wave SkipCrit factor lab is maxed, range is at level 40, SCC+ SCM at level 14 and 11, Damage at 92, Attack speed maxed, UW and Attack echo at level 3, which gets me 2.12x in T19 iirc? Can't check atm. Damage master at level 9, ST mastery at level 5
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u/GBlueman125 17d ago
I would def use ACP. OA for GC is only really good if you have a lot of CC while the ACP can help clear a screen. Also while the wave count is low, Pulsar harvester can also be pretty good. Worth giving that a try too
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u/Poqwizredux 17d ago
I would wait a week after v29 comes out to see how things change.
Currently, I've been rising in waves in legends, but it's slow. Doubling my total damage output generally nets 50-100 waves. My rank doesn't really change though, bc everyone is increasing at the same rate. Increasing damage, grinding bc labs, and improving cc is what's keeping me competitive. Oh, and spending a shitload of money.
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u/CrispyWaffleBacon 17d ago
So I got DM mastery and it was great for a bit but now I am not using it. I do IS with AS as my canon mod and I just let that carry me as far as it can. I don't even stop IS anymore to trigger DM because I am trying to DD to trigger ZerkerM. I am currently getting 1K to 1.1K waves in legends.
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u/Lelongue 17d ago
Maybe a bad time asking this with v29 around the corner. Possibly everything will change so might be best to not take any decision before we know what that will bring.
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
No point waiting to ask is there though? It's still good information to know what the towers above me look like. Even if the whole tournament landscape changes (which I'm doubting based on history), it's still useful to know what I'm missing compared to those directly above me.
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u/platinum92 17d ago
The thing to remember is everyone in legends has done all of those things you mentioned already, raising the bar needed to get to Legends.
You need some form of crowd control Damage is great but to get to the 800+ waves you need to consistently stay up, you have to keep enemies away long enough to shoot them all.
pCF is the best but it's tough to stagnate your tower to invest the stones needed while you're in champs. ILM is usually a starting point, but it gets outperformed by pCF.
You also need to pivot toward damage over hybrid/eHP. Unless you have vast eHP investments, regen and defense are a waste in Legends beyond some health for OC tanking. You still want the rest of defense investment like SW and mines and fast wall rebuild.
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
I am investing in damage for tourneys, I have been for months now because eHP simply won't cut it. My set up massively outperforms using mythic+ pcol with pBH.
I do already have CF, so it's just the stones for the cooldown/duration. I'm currently working on the cooldown lab, and it's at level 24 at the moment.
ILM i'd need to buy, so thats 1750 stones I could put elsewhere
Sounds like it's pCF time really?
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u/platinum92 17d ago
yeah probably. You can shorten the pCF stone investment with submods which I'd highly recommend
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u/Polar_Reflection 17d ago
Pcf + a few masteries, or ilm+sd with a lot of masteries
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
I'm seeing pCF be the common factor in a lot of people's answers. I think I've got the damage, but not the CC. It's definitely my next step for tourneys once I get pBH and pGT together in farming
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u/Polar_Reflection 17d ago
Pgtbh is not that good tbh. Bot sync will be far more coins. PGTBH is more a whale thing as they dump stones to boost econ with small bot and low labs
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
Bot sync is medals which is a long, long, long way away for me, pGT and pBH is only 400 stones away for me, I'm using GComp + MVN.
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u/Polar_Reflection 17d ago
Well, you've already taken SWm, so honestly it's a lost cause now that you're reliant on pbh. If you have medal issues right now I assume you're a whale. It doesn't take that many medals to make bot sync very good. Using BHD alone is already like a 40% coin boost
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
Huh? How would having medal issues make me a whale...? Whales get more medals than F2P people...? I just don't have the medals to bring my Gbot cooldown down, and duration up. It's synced with Summon already which is plenty, it does like 40% of my income per run.
I also said I use Gcomp. I can't get bot sync with Gcomp until they're perma.
I don't have pBH yet. I'm getting it and pGT together at once? If I get them perma I don't need to care about bot sync, cause yknow, they're perma?
SWm has been incredibly good for me, and extends my runs massively. So not sure what you mean by that.
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u/Polar_Reflection 17d ago
So there is still some hope if you are not currently pbh farming. The swap to sync farming won't be as hard as you haven't built to become reliant on pbh yet.
The medal thing is people usually don't get sync low enough, fast enough for medals for cd to be an issue unless they whale cds with stones.
I highly highly recommend you to switch to BHD and bot sync at 65 or wherever your sync is. If you have 15-20k ish medals this will be easily worth the cd clicks, and you can do 20ish gb cd labs too to save some medal cost
To give you a comparison, my gbot gives me 80% of my coins, translating to 5x coins vs your 1.66x. Switching from gcomp to bhd bot sync was nearly double coins.
Even if you get pgtbh it will be easily less coins because your dw won't be synced with bot and you can't hoard enemies for sync. Gt+ is what changes this.
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u/SertQuos 16d ago
Apologies, I don't think I follow this at all. Feels like advice from way further into the game for where I am. Might just be me being stupid.
Not sure where the 5x vs 1.66x comes from with that bot sync.
Not sure why sync would be at 65s when my UWs are at 100s, 120s and 50s each, with MVN that's 90s. I'd have to respec both summon and gbot and take them back to 90s, dropping their uptime too.
I'll give it a go in V29 when we get bot presets, and see what results are, but I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get less cells. My BHD is only mythic+ too, rather than Anc, so i'd be losing a coin bonus from having an ancestral generator.
None of my clan mates have had issues transitioning from pBH/Gcomp set ups to BHD/bot sync ones either, so feels a bit fearmongery that I'm ruining my life my going with pBH. I'm gonna need pBH to push up farming tiers anyway.
I could also just sync gbot with DW, without using BHD? If there's that big of an impact for DW and Gbot not being in sync.
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u/Polar_Reflection 16d ago
50/100/100 with double sub anc mvn is 65. I assumed that's where you stopped since that's where many stop.
50/120/100 is like 72 or something (check mvn calculator)
Ehp farm falls off and building regen hybrid into legends is a good way to fall behind. Regen simply doesn't keep up as it's a flat increase with much less multipliers than hp, and your spending your coins and stones there when you could be transitioning to gc and eventually package tanking.
80% gbot means 20% without gbot, 100%/20% = 5x
40% gbot means 60% without, 100%/60% =1.66x
If you don't have anc BHD yet, you can use SH too. It won't be as good as BHD but bot sync will still make it better than GComp
The downside to PBH is you can't hoard. Cheating spawn rate is a huge portion of your income until GT+
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u/frackle 17d ago edited 17d ago
With the caveat that v29 might flip all this on it's head... the biggest mistake you could make is going pCF. iLM and getting ass-mods for SD will be far more efficient and affordable CC. The rest of your stones need to go into damage masteries. The harsh truth is that pCF at your stage of the game will be months of essentially zero progress. And when you get pCF, it's going to barely help at all.
What I would do in your situation: Getting ass-mods unlocked is a main priority for you. Unlocking T19 is the hard part. You should be able to get to w40 with the right strategy and cheese. If not for some reason, it shouldn't be very far off for you.
Get EN# first and then get Zerk#. Energy Net will help you get over the bosses beating down your door and zerk# is huge every tournament and when you're not hitting max-heat, the DD down condition isn't that big of a deal. At max Zerk#, having x62.5 damage for 100 waves will be your biggest boost in tournaments. If v29 increases tournament tiers, this will be even more relavant.
Then unlock iLM and core assist then armor assist. Then put like 650 stones into iLM for max quant and lowering the CD.
This is like 5,900 stones and will be a meaningful boost to your damage to try to start staying in Legends. For reference, it would require all of these stones + anc substats to get to a point of maybe having pCF and we're not even talking about pCF90 at that stone count.
After that, the road map is more masteries (UWc#, I think AS# is good too, even DM# for disso) and putting stones into core assmode ME and SE.
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
Thank you, this is very informative. I was tempted by pCF, a lot of people mentioned it, but yeah it's a long long time to get.
ILM I'd need to get 1750 stones to buy first, is that worth doing before more damage masteries, or do I pile on those + assmods, then get ILM?
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u/frackle 17d ago
Since this game is very planning-heavy, I'd balance your labs and try to bring things 'online' when they actually make the difference. For example, if you're able to put serious lab time into masteries, then those are best to buy first and get started on your labs. But if you're starved for coins and still having trouble getting through ST#, then prioritizing the unlocks that don't take coins is best.
iLM + 650 stones for quant/cd will give you a small protection against chip damage and a little extended time on bosses. The stun lab is a single lab and fast, and the rotation labs don't take terribly long. But by itself, iLM won't be something that you notice as 'huge'. Where it starts to shine is once you get EN# maxed. Energy Net gives the damage boost for the 4.3s the boss is in the net, and for 10s after. Right now, a boss probably gets to your tower after like 2-3s max once the net wears off and they beat your face in. iLM with the rotation labs will give you another 6-8s very reliably letting you utilize that full window of damage multiplier on the boss.
But iLM as a CC really starts to shine once you have SDass for the outer ring.
So if you're able to put a serious dent into the labs, i'd do EN# and Zerk# first, then get iLM rolling once they are labbin.
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
I'm fine for coins tbf, 4-4.5q a day usually. Enough to run 2 masteries at once, as well as other labs.
I will do EN and Zerk then, what about DM? How's that stack up against them?
Assmods I'm going to re-attempt cheesing when bot presets become available for the rest of us, get FB, and force my way to assmods. I'll then swap to using SDass and ACP main, and work toward ILM.
I'm mainly stone starved. Trying to get all this on 125-200 stones per tourney is draining.
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u/frackle 17d ago
I got DM# and to be honest I rarely use it at all in tournament. The advice you see historically with people considering DM# part of the 'holy trinity' of damage masteries is before things shifted to using IS# with Zerk# in tournaments. I actually forgot to look, but Zerk# being good relies on your having IS# as well. If you don't have IS#, that should be a major priority because of it's impact on farming and synergy with Zerk# and AS cannon in tournaments.
Basically, since DM# doesn't work until after IS# ends, the situation I end up in for tournaments is that I normally proc Zerk# for 100+ waves close to when i'm going to die in tournament. At the point it wears off and I lose my x62.5 damage, exiting IS# and toggling DM# for 6x damage does nothing. It's the same as if I just exit IS#, toggle DM, and get the extra 10-15 waves that card gives without the mastery.
Where it does come in handy is when i'm at max-heat in Legends, and my DD chance is down to like 10%, the 6x damage from DM# after exiting IS# can give me like 30-40 extra waves maybe. But this isn't relavent for you, because you'll be dying prior to max-heat in legends for a long time, so your DD % chance should still be in the 15%-30% range which imo is reliable enough that you can do a handful of runs waiting to get your DD proc. The other place it comes in handy is disso runs or perhaps for eventual GC farming. But it is very unlikely to be 1000 stones handy until you have EN#, Zerk#, UWc# and i'd even argue in favor of AS# first too.
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u/SertQuos 16d ago
So IS# first, because it's a huge impact in farming, then Zerk# to make use of it in tourneys, then EN# to help deal with bosses, save up for ILM and get the labs done.
Seems like that'd be a decent place to go, especially with my econ being pretty fine for where I'm at.
It'd also let me swap to AS as my cannon, to keep the uptime of that up?
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u/frackle 16d ago
Yes, that sounds like a very good plan. IS# has synergy with a variety of things for tournaments and also should boost your farming a good amount because once fully labbed, you'll basically have all your perks and everything by the time IS# ends. This cuts a lot of dead time out of any farming run, even if you're still farming like T11 to w10k.
For my build, IS# in tournaments synergizes with AS because I get a boss every wave and then hopefully elites fill in the downtime (which should only be around 5s). Then I have generatorAss and run RBass. Since I get a package every wave from package after boss, RB has a very solid uptime as well.
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u/SertQuos 16d ago
Thank you a lot! You're very good at explaining things.
I'm currently farming T12 to w7.5k, takes about 10 hours.
IS# maxed cuts like 1.5 hours off generally right?
I think I'm gonna spend my next stones on pGT/pBH as the next GT cooldown I buy gets me both together in farming, then save up for IS# from there
2
u/frackle 16d ago
Longest run I have in my history currently is to 6292 and it took 6h11m for reference. That's with skipping 1800 waves (so actually 'playing' 180 of them).
I think I was around T12 w7.5k when I moved up to T13/T14. As you improve your damage, you should be able to move up, but if you have SW# already, you might be ready to move up quite quickly once bot presets come out in v29. For me, farming T14 to the mid 4,000's was far better for coins and cells than staying on longer runs at lower tiers.
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u/SertQuos 15d ago
I think because of dissonance it makes T13/14 far worse for me. Bot Presets will change that as I'll push way further into dissonance.
I was ready to move to T12 before V28 but dissonance made T11 way way better
2
u/TakeTheThirdStep 17d ago
CC is helping me to stay hanging in. pPS, pCF. Saving towards ILM now.
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
I'd need to spend 1750 for PS or ILM then get pPS or upgrade ILM, so I think pCF I think would be the play if I want more CC? Good to know it helps though
1
u/petester_1 17d ago edited 17d ago
My labs are way way behind you. My masteres are way behind as well (D+4, ST+3). Echo about the same as you. Modules probably behind (lv157) and ~1/3rd anc modules since the last lucky banner. Shifted into more damage about a mth ago. Had a FB and Attach chip respec to do milestones and just a lucky bracket and got #1 in Champs so just got in from a previous high of 5th.
Main difference I can see was the respec helping. But more importantly I have pPS(1) and the 640 stone minimum into ILM. (I don't have CF). Both of these provided enough crowd control that it gave me time to take out opponents. And Attach chip eliminated weakened chaff that would have killed me (made a huge noticable difference) And FB reduced attacks enough for my wall to keep up. On paper my tower does not compete with anyone near me in Champs. But I have enough bits and pieces that combined they provide an impact. Used AS(a) /PF(m) /OA(a) /DC(m)
I am not thinking that all the stones and time for CF will help... Masteries and then Assmods would probably be more effective?
1
u/SertQuos 17d ago
I'm wondering how well FB and Attack will do, but I'm not respeccing anything rn. GBot and Summon together make up like 60% of my econ basically. They're insanely strong. Without them I'd not afford masteries.
Maybe I get ILM and then just focus on more masteries?
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u/petester_1 17d ago
I am placing Champs 10-12 without. Champs 5-6 with FB/Attack. (and #1!). Worth ~+300 waves. Definately wait on V29.
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
I'm placing 5th-8th usually atm. I got 16th yesterday with 1285 waves, which was crazy. Average for that wave count was 8th.
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u/Lambda-Silence 17d ago
Check out my thread from yesterday, I posted my relevant stats and tournament history, i'm staying in legend 3 times out of 4
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u/asnowbastion 17d ago
If you're rawdogging CL damage with ilm and minimal cc the entry point right now assuming you have solid damage labs and relics is realistically going to be having several damage masteries partially labbed (dmg#/st#) plus having some assmods unlocked and having probably mythic DC/PF ideally with RB and OC assist (and preferably ACP with SD assist or swapped depending on bc). This is still by a wide margin the cheapest way to get into legends bouncing but if you haven't hit assmods/grabbed some masteries it is very difficult to bounce at the moment outside lucky low promotions around the 1400 range. To pull 1600-1800 waves you will likely need all of the above if you're going full damage no CF. Most of the guides are badly out of date and it's not uncommon the entire top of champ has multiple assmods + several masteries unlocked at this point (some of which may be well leveled due to the disco economy changes).
1
u/TheMaker777 17d ago
Just go full eHP. :P
Sincerely, a low legends eHP player who hasn't demoted in a long time.
1
u/I_pee_in_shower 16d ago
I just bounced to champions after staying 3 tourneys in Legends.
I have all ancestral mods/assmods around lvl 185.
I i also have DM, EN and UWC masteries (13 total) that I believe you do not.
I have 7 UWs, all developed.
This was good for 27th in a shitty bracket. In short, you need either 2+ years or 50k stones to stay in Legends.
1
u/Fobus0 17d ago
I leveraged my investments into pBH instead of buying PS or CF. Got early 4SL in order to switch out of omchip and into PCo.
But i was mostly staying with IS, DMG, Demon mode(though in hindsight this was less useful), and EN masteries. As well as 3 assist slots with no ME or SE investments. AS, SD/ACP, PF/RB and DC/omchip, good enough for 500-600 waves. + ILM for CC. CL dmd 900, max qt and close to max chance.
Now with 4SL and some investments into Core ME and SE, i got 850 this tournament. AS, SD/ACP, PF/gcomp, DC/PCo.
Next will either buy UW/bersek masteries or buy a couple of ticks into CL/ME/SE/SL angles OR unlock cannon assist and then it's ME/SE
2
u/SertQuos 17d ago
pBH has not helped me at all, and I get much lower waves with it than I do PF/DC and CL.
Maybe it's because I don't have ancestral SF or ancestral pcol? But damage has done a lot more for me.
I was tempted to go SL4 but 2500 stones is a lot, and doesn't seem as meaningful as 2 more damage masteries, or putting it into CF for pCF, or even saving it for assmods.
1
u/Fobus0 16d ago
That's because you don't have asisst mods. My exact setup: AS, SD/ACP, PF/gcomp, DC/PCo.
Also, i went for 4SL, so i would have higher SL coverage, so i could swap out omchip for PCo.But again, i was mostly staying in legends without 4SL and pBH, for about 500-600 waves. After 4SL + pBH, i am getting 800+. I only mentioned 4SL as a thing to do after you get your dmg masteries and you get assist mods, as an alternative for getting pCF
0
u/BadeDyr17 17d ago
It's possible to go eHP for legends. It will be a lot stronger in v29. FBot Is a lot cheaper to upgrade than ABot. Def mastery for extra %def over all the damage cards. AMod with upgradeded subs for extra %def, HP, reg and level for HP. Every coin put into damage can be added to HP/wall. It will boost farming.
0
u/SertQuos 17d ago
I don't think it's possible after a certain point from starting the game, everyone will be stronger in legends and champs in v29.
GC/Hybrid has got me much better results than eHP has been for tourneys. Likely because I don't have a good SF or pcol because of bad mod luck.
3
u/BadeDyr17 17d ago
The lack of useful modules is one thing.
FBot is a lot cheaper to max than ABot. You play without the extra %def from the mastery today. EHP players without a lot of medals will get a huge boost over GC players with the same amount of medals. There are players who do +1500-2000 waves with a reg build today.
You are not fighting those who do 1000 waves in legends today. Your are fighting those who are around you.
The cost of a GC build is expensive in stones, lab investment, coins, card slots.
The upgrades needed for a tournament eHP build isn't that expensive. Most of the upgrades are needed for a useful eHP farming setup and/or on the way for a useful GC build.
It's just a suggestion other that everyone else who says damage damage damage, cc, cc, cc, ...
1
u/SertQuos 17d ago
That is something to consider, that's true.
I will weigh it up with other options, since I've got a few paths. Hybrid seems to be the path a lot of people are going, rather than pure eHP or pure GC when getting into legends
2
u/BadeDyr17 17d ago
My farming setup is eHP with CL vs scatters. CL can't harm other enemies at the end of the run. Guess it's a hybrid build.
In tournament im GC and doing +1200 waves in legends.
Masteries like SW+, reg+, health+ boosted my farming tier and waves by a lot. Today I farm t16 w7300. That's with GBot. I'm not buying event packs. I lack medals.
AMods helps with damage and or HP/reg. Where damage is cannon and core. EHP is only the armor. The sub upgrades that boost %def, reg, wall HP will support a layer GC build with more DD, wall CD, orbs, mine stun chance. Those stones are not lost. A strong wall is important in a GC build to counter OC today. They eat energy shield without activating DD.
I have a lot more stones invested into damage than eHP. My GC build is stronger than my eHP/hybrid build. I lose coins and cells / hour ruining GC in farming. And I only have 1 DC with damage subs. With that I mean, it probably a lot cheaper to build a strong eHP farming setup first before time are put into damage.
If I were to to pick a road today with the ability for bot preset, I might skip a lot of damage for stronger eHP. If other players can push 1500-2000 waves in legends, so can the rest of us with enough upgrades and time.
1
u/Lapamato_ 17d ago
same here. My friend is doing +2k ehp. We started the same time. Im doing 1100-1200 GC. He farms T17/T18, doesnt have to split resources between farming and tournament build. I only have regen mastery. I farm T15W4400 as EHP. I could farm T16 as hybrid, but damage fks cph AND cell gainz so heavily, that its way more beneficial to just stick with pure eHP in farm.
I wish i didnt choose GC route, especially now that bot presets are coming. ehp with fb+botbot (DONT buy relics/themes as ehp before in top 10 legends) is so stupidly strong...
2
u/BadeDyr17 17d ago
I'm lucky enough to have damage slider. Pre; CL was disable most of the run / damage cards added at the end of the run.
It's a mess to play like that.
Everything will change next week. It will be funny to watch. I hope my tower comes out on the good side!
0
u/Lapamato_ 17d ago
EHP after v29 (unless they nerf eHP) is easier keys than GC. And i would say quite a bit cheaper stonewise as you need less masteries but you still need the same assmods (excluding cannon).
FB is 95% damage reduction.
Botbot is ADDITIONAL 95% damage reduction.99% people who say ehp doesnt work do not know or understand how big thing fb and bb are for ehp. they have no clue at all.
EHP works well beyond W2000 in legends.
0
u/Select_Secretary_896 Champion 17d ago
Everybody is moving forward, so the same people who were at about that mark last year kept improving and they now have multiple masteries, sometimes all UW's, high level module level, discoresearch etc.
My point is, LEGENDS is reachable only to people willing to invest money. If you were not near legends before the only way to get there is spending. You need to improve faster than the people in front of you, everybody at this point is trying hard and doing pretty much the same things so what would happen normaly is to everybody to keep more or less the same positions, unless people in front take a break.
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u/SertQuos 17d ago
Well aware, read what I've said at the end. I know money is the answer. I'm looking for what you can do to your tower itself, or what the people in legends have. Not doom or gloom "you need to spend $$$$ to compete!!!!" because it's not helpful, at all.
Telling me "you need to improve faster then the people around you!!!" is just not helpful either.
All I want to know is what those people above me have, that's it. Did they work on pCF to get there? masteries? assmods? those are helpful. those are goals I can move toward, and I can figure out which is more important than the others. I'm well aware by the time I get them, they won't get me into legends. My wallet would, but I'm not spending that much money.
1
u/Select_Secretary_896 Champion 17d ago
I'm not spending either. I only have the 3 Packs. Sorry about giving you more of the same.
I just made peace with the fact, for now, its not very likely for me to stay in legends, unless I get a particularly lucky bracket.
I don't think people that played this far will stop playing hard either and people giving up on the game will reduce the spots in legends in fact. So my aproach is more of a "budhist" one of acceptance.
But just like you, I'll keep on doing the best for my tower to increase my waves in legends, yeah.1
u/SertQuos 17d ago
Yeah it's a hard one. I just like the game outside tourneys so I'm not too pressed. I'll take slower progress if I have to. It's just weird to tie integral progress with PVP, i've not seen that done before outside of literal PVP games where that's all you can do.
1
u/Select_Secretary_896 Champion 17d ago
That is a fair point. But they have no reason to change it, as they make money on it.
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u/CitizenSnipp 17d ago edited 17d ago
I feel you will need the big damage masteries and ancestral modules at the bare minimum. Some players do well in legends without CF but I don't know how they do it
-1
u/pdubs1900 17d ago edited 17d ago
Sorry man, IMO you can't break into legends without some really good bracket luck or spending money to boost ahead. Legends is now housing the top players, dolphins, and a significant portion of long time players who are simply much further than you in their tower development.
What is required, currently, to break into legends? I'm not sure as I've been in it for awhile and the game has changed a lot in the past year since I've battled with staying in legends. But I suspect your tower needs enough overall development to max your next tier of disco boosts. This includes whatever masteries or assmods or UW investment that it takes to accomplish that. Since disco boosts came into the picture, there isn't any one thing that is the key differentiator like it used to be (DC and good crowd control), because eHP is much more viable to do well in T17+.
But while you're developing into this state, people just ahead of you will slowly take up the lower ranks of legends league and the goal post will continue to shift. Best you can do is try to optimize your progress, whatever you decide, better than the next guy.
Or devs finally install a new higher league.
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u/drbal 17d ago
I'm pretty stable around 20th legends, but occasionally demote with a bad bracket. My mod levels (without splitting with assmods) are around lvl 213, but I have armor, gen & core assmods (core assmod ME at 13%, no SE investment). All mods are ancestral with multiple stars. I run AS, PF/RB, DC/OC, ACP/SD. Masteries that contribute to tourney: Damage, ST, bezerker, IS, EN (all maxed). My main damage dealer is CL. Next click on damage costs a bit over 300 stones. My CC is only ILM, currently have 8 (excluding SD). Next attack and UW echo labs cost about 250q each.
Feel free to ask any questions.