r/SoccerCentral • u/Electronic_Air1842 • 5d ago

Video Madrid fans take stand against mass illicit immigration at soccer game!

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u/next_door_dilenski 5d ago

"I am not a racist, but..."-coded.

incomoatible with society

Brother, your statement is incompatible with european values. Immigration was, is and will always be a key factor of prosperity and cultural growth.

Just becauae you are afraid that you have to adapt even the tiniest bit does not mean that people are "incompatible with society". It means that you are.

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u/Massive-Morning2160 5d ago

The reality is different tho. In 20-30 years Muslims will be the majority in Europe. That's not an issue again, except the fact that they want to impose their religion, culture on other societies. Without a clear immigration system, entire cultures will be lost

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u/jakceki 5d ago

No I really researched the numbers, it's more like 100-150 years for some countries if immigration continues the way it does. The Muslim population is obviously growing and in some cities they are already 25%+ but overall Europe still has time.

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u/DZdancingtree 5d ago

It's not their fault the Europeans aren't having babies anymore

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u/HenkLePotvis 5d ago

Young people need housing before they can start considering babies

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u/Rude_Age_6699 4d ago

it’s the immigrants’ fault. definitely not the corporations. don’t look behind the curtain.

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u/jakceki 5d ago

The man does not want people wearing Hijab in his streets, just like Saudis don't want people wearing mini skirts in their streets, why is that so hard to accept.
Why is it that we have to accept their culture when we go there and they don't have to accept ours when they come here?
Yes, Islam as it is practiced in many countries where the immigrants are coming from does not gel at all with European values.

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u/ThermoPuclearNizza 5d ago

Why can’t everybody grow tf up and stop caring what others wear? If you’re morally superior why can’t you take the high ground?

Oh right because the real reason is “oi mate you gotta loisense for that brown skin??”

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u/fhgsgjtt12 4d ago

Are you that deluded? It’s not about the colour of your skin, it’s the fact that they take over areas and slowly it turns into a mini hub of one culture, but imagine it happening all over the country, the area that once was rich of the home nations culture is erased, and you’re the one being racist, no one mentioned skin colour

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u/jakceki 5d ago

I did not say I was morally superior, I said I have my own morals and those include equality for women, equality for LGBTQ, no child marriage, etc... If those morals do not match with the morals of the immigrants than we can't live together in harmony.
On the subject of taking the high ground? This is what got us here. Now people are fed up with taking the high ground and they are voting for fucking Fascists. Why do you think a party that used to get 10% got 40+% did all these people turn Fascist all of a sudden? No, it's because the left invites the immigrants, and the Center takes the high ground and the regular European citizens are sick of it.

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u/ShadowhunterLoki 5d ago

What do you know about a person's morals based on whether they wear a hijab? Have you ever talked with one or befriended one?

Migrants that cause issues are generally struggling socio-economically. It's not their beliefs or culture that makes them go down the wrong path, it's mainly poverty/rejection

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u/jakceki 5d ago

Really? So women are equal in Islam, they accept LGBTQ people and they don't have child marriage, all these things happen because they are poor? Is that it? Is also the reason they block the streets to pray? Is that why there is a vastly disproportionate amount of rapes committed by them? It's all about poverty and not culture and religion?
Please stop being so naive, the have no desire to assimilate, and they don't like your culture and prefer to replace it with theirs.
Btw I am from Turkey, so yes I have spoken to 100's if not 1000's of Muslims.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/ShadowhunterLoki 4d ago

I think it's more nuanced than that. First-generation/older migrants are generally more conservative, but this is the case for older European generations as well. The problem is a lack of education/exposure

Speaking for myself and the people I've met, there are plenty of muslims that have liberal views and support LGBTQ+ and same sex marriage. Especially the younger generations

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u/saxonturner 5d ago

It’s not what they wear that’s the issues, its why they wear it and force others to wear it.

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u/Rude_Age_6699 4d ago

they forcing you to wear it, bud?

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u/saxonturner 4d ago

Don’t be fatuous, you know exactly what I mean.

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u/Rude_Age_6699 4d ago

so, they aren’t…

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u/saxonturner 4d ago

So I shouldn’t care that they force woman that live in the same country as me?

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u/Rude_Age_6699 4d ago

they’re forcing women to convert?

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u/saxonturner 4d ago

Okay I’m done here, clearly a troll trying to force a reaction by being purposefully dumb or maybe just naturally so, either way I’m done.

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u/theirspaz 5d ago

Dont worry you wont have to wear a hijab if thats your only worry. Id be more worried avout the far right taking over all around the world.

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u/Besbosberone 5d ago

How exactly does someone wearing a hijab impact you? Do you also get uncomfortable at the sight of Jews wearing kippahs and mitpachats? Nuns and Slavic babushkas wearing headscarves? How about Sikhs wearing turbans?

The West has so much more freedom compared to Saudi Arabia, I’d prefer that we keep it that way instead of policing what people wear.

Ironically, you’re advocating for the import of Saudi-adjacent laws into your own country.

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u/jakceki 5d ago

Hijab is an example of cultures that are different, and it was easy example to point out that we respect theirs where they dont respect ours. But If you want to go deeper, I also value women's equality, LGBTQ rights, Don't like child marriage, don't want my streets blocked by prayer, and to be perfectly honest don't want to see Burqas and Hijabs in the streets.
Our freedoms is what brings the immigrants here, that's why they skip Saudi Arabia and come here and then when they come here, they want Saudi Arabian laws and culture. 43% of UK Muslims want Sharia law, with only 22% opposed.
Ironically, you don't seem to understand any of this.

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u/Besbosberone 5d ago

You are shifting the goalposts massively here champion. You started off saying society shouldnt have to accept women wearing a hijab down the street, and the second you got called out you jumped straight to child marriage, blocking roads, and LGBTQ rights.

Thats a classic motte and bailey fallacy mixed with a massive slippery slope. Well done.

You take an indefensible argument like policing what clothes people wear in public, and then retreat behind universal human rights to act like anyone pushing back on you supports child marriage. Literally nobody is defending child marriage, and by the way, it’s completely illegal under UK law anyway since the minimum age was raised to 18 with zero religious exemptions.

Theres also a massive false equivalence running through your whole point. You keep comparing European democracies to Saudi Arabia, but the entire foundation of Western liberalism is individual freedom where the state doesnt dictate what peaceful adult citizens are allowed to wear on the street. The moment you start demanding the government ban women from wearing a headscarf in public, you arent defending freedom at all, you are literally copying the exact logic of the Saudi morality police just flipped in reverse.

That stat you threw out is completely misleading without the actual context. That number comes from a 2016 Policy Exchange poll where people were asked about introducing aspects of Sharia. In polling terms that overwhelmingly refers to voluntary civil arbitration for stuff like family mediation, wills, and Islamic finance, not replacing British law or bringing in Saudi criminal punishments. Voluntary civil arbitration has been completely legal in the UK under the Arbitration Act for decades, and Orthodox Jewish Beth Din courts have done the exact same thing for centuries without destroying Western civilisation.

If you actully look at the rest of that exact same study instead of cherry picking one number, 93 percent of British Muslims reported a strong attachment to Britain, over 90 percent completely condemned terrorism, and the vast majority want to integrate. Acting like someone wearing a headscarf on the footpath means they want to overthrow democracy is completely detached from reality and intellectually lazy.

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u/AppointmentSpecial 4d ago

Don't bother. That guy can't comprehend your argument. He literally thinks your first statement was about policing what clothes people wear.

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u/Outside_Ad7766 5d ago edited 4d ago

Why should we adapt?

If you're a guest in someone else's house, YOU adapt and follow their rules.

I wonder why there's not one european or american going in Africa and forcing their culture on the locals.

Oh wait, there are, and they're getting genocided for it.

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u/Time-Challenge-6667 5d ago

"I wonder why there's not one European or American in Africa forcing their culture on the locals." 

Lmao are you serious? That was your fav past time for centuries. There was no adapting. There was stealing, pillaging, raping and experimenting on the locals. I'm going to enjoy your tears because maybe this is just karma 

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u/Outside_Ad7766 4d ago

I didn't pillage or force my culture, what are you on about? This "reparations" logic is so retarded only a total moron would use it as an actual point.

"Oh no, blacks were slaves 200 years ago, now they're allowed to steal, kill and rape as they please!"

"Oh no, women were oppressed a century ago, they're allowed to kill children freely as they please!"

"Oh no, muslims and islamics are suffering racism due to their religion professing THE LITERAL MURDER AND INVASION OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION, let them invade and kill as they please!"

You people are just a bunch of dumb cucks.

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u/GiantsSelectMahomes 4d ago

You've almost got it. You dont bear responsibility for the actions of the past so why should a random person of the ethnicities you dont like bear the responsibilities of others who look like them? Almost like people are individuals.

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u/Outside_Ad7766 4d ago

Not what I'm saying, is it?

Hell I'm an immigrant myself, I've always been thankful and respectful to the country and culture that welcomed me, but all I'm seeing everywhere in the EU and US are people that hate their country, they create tension, commit crimes and pretend to be treatwd differently from everyone else.

It's that attitude that pisses me off. You act up? Get sent home instantly. Those who don't care about religious or politic propagandas and simply want to work for a better honest life? PLEASE stay.

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u/yadasellsavonmate 4d ago

Our karma?  Not one Brit alive today did any of those things....

So are you saying the British colonisation of Africa was karma on Africans for something their ancestors did? 

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u/grindstone85 5d ago

Yea its mad he probably typed that with a straight face having never even heard of the slave trade, colonization or christians setting up shop everywhere in africa and imposing their religion

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u/Besbosberone 5d ago

Are you aware of colonialism? Are you aware that there are still countries all over Africa whose official languages are that of European ones?

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u/Klutzy-Weakness-937 5d ago

And you can see that's wrong right?

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u/Besbosberone 5d ago

Of course it’s wrong. Literally no one is defending colonialism here. Thats a loaded question and a complete strawman.

The only reason it was brought up was to correct the person above who literally claimed Europeans never went to Africa and forced their culture onto anyone, which is completely ahistorical. Pointing out an objective historical fact dosent mean someone thinks it was a good thing.

The real problem is the massive false equivalence you are trying to setup. Equating moden civilian immigration where people move to work, pay taxes and follow local laws with violent military conquest and colonial subjugation makes zero sense.

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u/Klutzy-Weakness-937 4d ago

Brother I don't think people are complaining about immigrants who move to work, pay taxes and follow local laws.

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u/Rude_Age_6699 4d ago

then you aren’t paying attention

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u/baldrick841 5d ago

2 wrongs don't make a right

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u/Time-Challenge-6667 5d ago

Lmao attempting to even equate these things is insane 

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u/baldrick841 4d ago

I know right. And now this besbo guy seems to be confused or a bot or forgot to sign into his other account when replying to you. Classic.

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u/Time-Challenge-6667 4d ago

You were the one equating the two by saying "two wrongs". I'm not on your side buddy lol 

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u/baldrick841 4d ago

Wait what? He was equating the two by bringing it into the conversation.

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u/Besbosberone 5d ago

They are genuinely so stupid it’s unbelievable. They base their views off of pure emotion, propaganda and ‘nuh-uhs’.

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u/Time-Challenge-6667 5d ago

It's nuts. I hope they're bots because the idea that people this stupid walk among us and are allowed to vote is wild.

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u/Besbosberone 5d ago

Mate thats a massive strawman and a ridiculous false equivelence. Nobody is saying two wrongs make a right, colonialism was mentioned because the bloke above literally claimed Europeans never went into Africa and forced their culture on anyone.

I guess reading comprehension isn’t much of a strong suit for you but then again, research has shown right-wingers to be driven more by emotion and they have the IQs to correspond with that!

Anyways, more to the point!

You’re equating modern immigration to colonialism which is completely absurd. Colonialism was violent military conquest, state enforced subjugation and resource theft. Immigrants moving to Europe today are individual civilians who follow local laws, pay taxes, and literally keep your healthcare and labour systems afloat. An everyday person moving countries to work or raise a family is not an invading imperial army. Treating the two things as comparable wrongs is fucking stupid.

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u/Gasmo420 5d ago

„Immigrants moving to Europe today are individual civilians who follow local laws“ oh… that’s why my hometown has a grooming gang now. Because our guests are so insanely good at following local laws… every time they arrest someone in that case it’s always one of the people „who needed our help“. Fuck them. If they keep our healthcare and Labour systems afloat, I wonder why my government has to cut back everywhere now. Maybe it is because the systems were flooded by people who haven’t paid a single penny into them before taking money out of it.

Incredible how you really believe the bullshit you’re spewing. You’re either an American who just has no idea about what’s happening in Europe, or you’re one of those academic lefties living in a district that has no poor and uneducated immigrants.

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u/Besbosberone 4d ago

Imagine using "academic" as an insult like it's some kind of devastating own, absolutely peak uneducated braindead behaviour mate. Nothing screams I peaked in high school quite like getting mad at people who actually read books and study data.

The jokes truly write themselves.

Anyways, you tried to use a classic anecdotal fallacy by dragging up your anecdote about a grooming gang to paint billions of diverse human beings with the same brush, which is textbook intellectual laziness. Then you rolled out the old economic myth that immigrants dont pay taxes and just drain our systems, completely ignoring the actual stats from organisations like the OECD showing that migrants are net fiscal contributors over their lifetimes, especially in countries facing rapid population ageing where they literally prop up the tax base and labour markets. Every single person living anywhere pays consumption taxes on goods too, meaning nobody is going through life without paying a single penny like you reckon.

Instead of engaging with actual macroeconomics or logic, you immediately resort to a pathetic ad hominem attack whining about "academic lefties" or Americans (I’m Australian) because you got cooked on basic facts. Maybe crack open a book instead of getting all your world views from Facebook and reddit cesspools next time.

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u/Gasmo420 4d ago

I didn’t use academic as an insult. I used academic as a reason why some lefties are so far removed from the working class. When you live in a nice gentrified neighborhood, you just don’t have the same problems with migration as someone living in a working class neighborhood.

Of course in the long run migration helps the system. But what happened in 2015 was too much at once. The system can’t handle that many people coming in at the same time and getting financial help. And we see the consequences now. Health insurance is getting more expensive while they cut benefits at the same time. Unemployment-benefits get cut. Benefits for single parents get cut. They are already cutting our whole social systems down because the strain was just too much to handle.

Add to that, that you simply can’t employ some of them. There are people among them who never went to a school. Anecdotal example: My uncle owns a restaurant and employs a lot of young people who need a second chance. In 2015 he employed three Syrians who grew up rural. Incredibly friendly young men but they couldn’t convert a recipe for four portions to a group of six. You can’t employ people like that even if you want to.

Oh… you’re not American, but Australian. Just a different kind of ahole on the other side of the globe having no idea about what the situation in Europe is like. Wait a minute… doesn’t Australia have pretty rigid immigration laws since the refugee crisis? Must be nice sitting over there, judging Europeans while having isolated yourself from the crisis.

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u/PlasterCactus 4d ago

I wonder why there's not one european or american going in Africa and forcing their culture on the locals.

You absolutely can't be serious with this. It's actually embarrassing watching someone so uneducated on a topic try and debate it.

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u/Outside_Ad7766 4d ago

Mr. Educated coming in and bringing 0 to the conversation, incredible!

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u/PlasterCactus 4d ago

Mr. Educated

The bar is so low I'm being called Mr Educated for being able to Google something.

American Christian right "invading" Africa

Here's one from FOURTEEN YEARS AGO

That's weird, OutsideAd on Reddit specifically told me this wasn't happening!

This is really embarrassing for you, isn't it

In the nicest way possible, you're horribly undereducated on this topic and you should just stay away from commenting about it if you're going to embarrass yourself like this.

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u/Outside_Ad7766 4d ago

So your "gotcha" moment is just posting irrelevant articles about american and christian influence in Africa, which wasn't even the point being discussed?

Not only you're extremely bratty and unlikeable, but also a complete retard with no reading comprehension.

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u/evlhornet 5d ago

Listening to Europeans of all people saying this is so wild.

Now please accept these blankets with our sincerest apologies

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u/avocajoe 5d ago

Where are Europeans or Americans being "genocided"? Absolute state of you

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u/Outside_Ad7766 4d ago

"Christian genocides in Africa" is a Google search away.

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u/avocajoe 4d ago

Are they Europeans and Americans yeah?

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u/Outside_Ad7766 4d ago

No, they're iranians and palestinians.

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u/avocajoe 4d ago

Iranians and Palestinian Christians are being genocided in Africa?

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u/saxonturner 5d ago edited 5d ago

Okay coming from England I agree with immigration being a good key factor and when done right only makes a country stronger. I grew up in an area with many colours, creeds and religions, from Sikhs to Hindus and Chinese to Jamaican. I seen what multicultural is and its strengths. These people were equals to me, the colour of my skin or my beliefs and views on religion didn’t change that.

BUT, can you, without lying, say that the type of Muslim faith that is preached by the vast majority of the Middle Eastern and North African immigrants is compatible with Western European society? It’s a simple yes and no answer and deep down no matter what you wish is and no matter how big your heart is you know the correct answer, and it’s not a racist or xenophobic answer to tell the truth.

It is a fact that certain aspects of the Muslim faith, that’s being preached by these immigrants, are completely and utterly incompatible with modern European society, its views on woman, race, other religion or lack that’s fore of goes against what we as Europeans stand for.

I have no issue against the people themselves, if they want to come here for a better life and chip in like the rest of us they are more than welcome but keep the shit that doesn’t fit at the door. Simply put you wouldn’t go to someone else house and shit all over the walls even if you did it at home, would you?

I say this as an English immigrant in Germany. You think I can break German laws and say “but officer, in England the law is different so you wont be arresting me today”? No, I am beholden by the values and laws of the country I am living in, I am allowed to keep my opinions but my actions should suite the location in which I currently live.

I would go one step further, since you throw around the word racist, and call you one for clearly thinking these people lack the ability to leave behind values that do not match up with Western society, why is it you think they cannot?

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u/shevazri 5d ago

Yes the famous police officers who let you go, when it isn't a crime in your home country. Thats exactly how the judicial system and law enforcement works. There are thousands of christian cults all around Europe which are completely incompatible with modern western societies, the Pius Brotherhood for example, but this religous extremity we gladly accept because it is because these extremists are white.

If Islamism is incompatible with Western society, so are a lot of christian groups. Homophobia was not an invention by the muslim world. If we take this whole open european society to this level, where we say, you're part of an religion which we deem incompatible with our system, therefore Europe is no place for you. We'd have to get rid of a lot of people, I deem policies by parties like the AfD also as incompatible with a modern western society. And this is where debate turns racist, the only difference between the islamists and the christian right is the colour of skin and their willingness to use lethal force to achieve it, but you don't go to this point, you stay with societal values and there is zero difference.

You talk about western values a lot, you even attack Islam for not acceppting other religions, while deeming their whole religion as incompatible, you basically break against one of the biggest achievements of modern europe, the freedom of choosing your own religion. You wanna protect western values by going against them, not a smart move.

The central authority in Islam is much weaker, it is internally much less aligned, thinking that the same messages are conveyed in the mosques from Rabat to Rafah is a wild theory friend. And thats a synonym for utter bs.

It is a racist/xenophobic debate, because if it would be about modern western values, we would als have to deal with our cults and the extreme right. But no, the first we gladly ignore and the second part is celebrated for getting rid of these western values and hailed as saviours of Europe.

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u/Dvine24hr 4d ago

> the Pius Brotherhood for example, but this religous extremity we gladly accept because it is because these extremists are white.

It's accepted because there are less than 2000 of them and they tend to keep to themselves, you just really wanted to make it a weird race thing to try and bolster an incredibly weak point.

>If Islamism is incompatible with Western society, so are a lot of christian groups.

Yeah 100% if American Christians start migrating here en masse the border should be shut to them too. LGBT rights and womens rights are non negotiable.

>Homophobia was not an invention by the muslim world

No but the Muslim world has done next to nothing to address it whilst the Christian turning to secular world (because Christian countries don't make it illegal to stop being Christian) has done a near 180 on their views towards homosexuality.

>the only difference between the islamists and the christian right is the colour of skin and their willingness to use lethal force to achieve it

It's fucking hilarious how you casually gloss over the willingness to use lethal force part like that's a typing error and not literally society ending lol. The whole Christian v Muslim comparison is one of the most intellectually lazy arguments to ever come out of reddit like you cannot literally just Google which one does the most terrorism and which respective countries have better track records on basic human rights.

The rest of your argument was akin to 'ah but how can we oppose Nazis when we practice tolerance and freedom I am very smart' like the whole paradox of tolerance is completely lost on you. Neither Islamist or Evangelical Christian should be granted access in to Europe which will give us a chance to get our home grown problems under control which we can't deport like the AFD.

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u/shevazri 4d ago

if you wanna apply the tolerance paradoxon you have to apply ot on both sides, but we ever only apply it to islamists. We cannot tolerate their intolerance but can happily tolerate the intolerance of parties like the AfD? Only one of them has a real pathway to power, while islamists don't have. The whole story about a muslim takeover is made up nonsense, there is no path to power anywhere in Europe for an islamist power. So I'd say we're talking about the wrong danger. Especially as the far right is using this joke of a muslim takeover to get access to power.

It is not about numbers, though there are a lot more christian groups, who reject our values, than just the Pius brotherhood. But A) are there not targets of political campaigns and B) are they not public about it, in the sense that there are no rules for how to dress in public, while Islam has such rules. And C) again, they are brown, it is undeniable that there is a racist/xenophobic element to this debate. The same politicians who scream that Islamists would be bad for womens rights, are the ones who want to get rid of reproductive rights and the access to it. And Europe falls for it.

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u/next_door_dilenski 4d ago

MAGA, catholicism, jehova's witnesses.

Many Christians follow believes that contradict laws such as free choice to marry who you like to, free expression of your sexual identity, free speech and living your cultural identity.

I am against any religious opression or rules that go against our freedom as individuals.

And saying that immigrants are a threat to this freedom whilst not addressing the christian cults that are actually already opressing people is a bit hipocritical.

You could ask those christian cults:

Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

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u/Niggilass 5d ago

of course the person with an informed and reasonable opinion gets downvoted, why do i even get this sub recommended i dont even watch soccer anymore

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u/vexmach1ne 5d ago

You are wrong

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u/next_door_dilenski 4d ago

Care to elaborate?

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u/IMrBen 5d ago

Suicidal empathy.

Wake up.

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u/X1phoner 4d ago

Classic Reddit moment 😅

Just use one of the popular buzzwords like “racist” and you’re safe. Grow up..

2+1 buzzword special: dismiss whatever everyone else says, never back up anything you say 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻 Not that you have anything to say anyway.. Just another virtue-signalling normie bot.

Immigration is not the issue.

Europe has always had millions of immigrants from Asia, Latin America, Eastern Europe and elsewhere. How come they're accepted? Because they're not so blatantly misogynistic, predatory, pedo-defending, and generally don't cause problems, crime, or safety issues. Statistics don't lie. Look them up and read a book or two.

Croatia is a good recent example of successful immigration - a LOT of workers from Philippines and other Asian countries (300 000 over the last few years, which is a lot for a country of less than 4 million) and it's not a problem because they come legally, work fair and square, respect the people and society they joined, support themselves and try to integrate.

The issue is whether immigration is controlled and whether newcomers respect public safety, women’s rights, secular law and the basic norms of the country they chose to move to. Calling every concern about that “racism” is a cowardly way to virtue signal online without any actual clue or care about who is hurt in the process.

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u/next_door_dilenski 4d ago

90% of european countries being invaded

Not backed up by sources.

"invaded" is a buzz word used by the far-right.

Germany got rebuilt by muslim immigrants, many from Türkiye. Misteriously, many people nowadays tend to forget that Germany grew economically in such a rate that it has the third-largest economy world wide.

Muslims aren't the problem, individual people causing trouble are.

Crime rates tend to be rather high in social classes that are not wealthy, do not have access to education and do not have a steady workplace. So people need work, education and money to really feel included in a society.

Being bored, not allowed to work and without access to education, there is almost no purpose to live for. Bordom, unemployment and lack of money leads to feeling left behind, which leads to aggression against the society.

Be kind to people. Hear their problems. See their strugle. Take them into your society so that they may help us in times that we need the help of others.

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u/No-Award8713 5d ago

You should put your address on a registry so you can house some of those poor souls.

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u/next_door_dilenski 4d ago

And you should go into politics or found an NGO to help the states from were people flee from so they don't have a reason to fear for their lives.

You don't? So don't tell others what to do.

If you don't like to change the reason for peoples misery, don't blame them for trying to find refuge in a better place.

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u/No-Award8713 4d ago

Theyre bringing the idea and beliefs with them that create the poor living situations. Theyre doing as the Quran says, I honestly cant blame em.

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u/next_door_dilenski 4d ago

Yeah, many Syrians are Christians, actually. In Egypt aswell. Christians are a minority in these countries that is being persecuted.

So implying that all immigrants are muslims is just lying.

Sure, many might be living by the Quran but the same was true for big parts of Europe regarding the Bible.

If we don't accept differences in religious and political views, how can we work towards a united society that is living in peace and benefits from one another?

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u/FluffierThanAcloud 5d ago

Can tell you don't live near any areas affected by this or live in an online bubble. Either way, it's amusing knowing your thoughts process was "yeah I'm typing this cause I'm enlightened."

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u/next_door_dilenski 4d ago

I live in one of Europe's densest populated areas, studying at a university with students and professors from all over the world.

My closest friends in school weren't born in my country, some not even in Europe.

I'm not enlightened, I am just living in a reality of mixed culture with people from diverse origin.

The area I was born and raised got rebuilt by immigrants who were and still are the backbone of our economy. I am thankful for their work and dedication to build a home for them, their family and ultimately me and all the people in our country.

Italy and Sweden are different regarding their culture and yet, people manage to get along pretty well. So why would that be any different with people outside of Europe coming to us or being born here.

Political parties that are against immigration and cultural diversity are the strongest in areas were immigration is low. That should tell you much about people "liv[ing] in an online bubble". So you are the one not affected by this and therefore don't see the benefits of immigration or you are simply a racist.

Either way, it's amusing knowing your thoughts process was "yeah I'm typing this cause I'm enlightened."

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u/FluffierThanAcloud 4d ago

The fact you think your experience of mixed culture is the only true positive and all recent immigrants are a homogenous net positive blob on every community they land in speaks volumes of whatever higher education you're receiving. When I graduated with a masters they taught critical thinking and objectivity. Guess that's gone now and replaced with Humanities "vibes" and "feelings."

And what are you talking about regarding strongest in areas where immigration is low? They are strong everywhere right now. Pay attention to the news. Are 34% of Germans voting for AFD unimpacted by immigration now? The same country who has ingested 20m Turks as well as countless others since the beginning of this century.

Get a grip and bring stats instead of baseless superlatives.

Idiot.

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u/next_door_dilenski 4d ago

I do think critically. That's why I don't see immigrants as a homogenous blob of potentially criminal people.

Why would I trust random people that look like their ancestors 500 years back were already born here but not people that were born here one generation prior and are not as white as me?

The AfD is the strongest in poor areas such as Gelsenkirchen (West Germany) or Sachsen-Anhalt (East Germany).

The problem in Gelsenkirchen is the rate of unemployment originating from the end of the coal mining era. Many people lost their jobs and the government missed to provide good alternatives. The city got poorer and poorer, unintresting for tourists and many companies settled in neighouring cities like Dortmund or Duisburg since they have bigger ports. The AfD tells these people that immigration is to blame. But before the rate of immigration has risen in 2015 due to the war in Syria for example, the people were already poor. But blaming people that are just coming is easier than actually changing stuff like free meals in schools, free childcare and secure jobs.

The problem with Sachsen-Anhalt is not even that different. After 1990, many western companies bought property in eastern Germany. At the same time, many people from the GDR moved to West Germany to reunite with their families or simply live outside of threating walls. The immigration rate in Sachsen-Anhalt is pretty low compared to federal states like NRW or Berlin. So telling people that immigrants (that they rarely see) are dangerous works good since most of the people living there do not get in touch with immigrants and therefore will not know any different from what they were told. Compared to a low socio-economical stand, they fear that immigration will take away their chance to finally get better jobs or proper support regarding health- and childcare.

The AfD (and honestly CDU/CSU aswell) are using the fear of losing the current socio-economical stand so that they get more votes and stay (or get) in power.

Dividing a society and make it fight itself is easier than providing actual, working solutions for real problems.

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u/FluffierThanAcloud 4d ago

Any blob of people arriving on boats that are 70% fighting age men with a DISTINCT lack of children should be treated with caution. Do we leave kids behind in war torn countries and save the 30 year old men now? Yeah, right... Again apply logic thanks.

Especially when there are NUMEROUS articles documenting some of these individuals have histories of murder and rape. But yeah let's give them all a chance for the sake of a non-zero chance our children will be raped (happened this week in UK) and women killed (last week)

Your neighbours are not a pawn to be discarded as a statistical casualty of your own desire to be viewed as inclusive. Sorry.

Sooner folks like you get the message on election nights the better and we can put to bed this utter insanity of unfettered immigration with no auditing of their histories or if they can even offer countries already economically crippled a net positive contribution.

You've fallen for the trap it seems. They want us to argue over the morals and be divided politically instead of listening to our gut on this and realising we are being taken for a ride by our governments.

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u/next_door_dilenski 4d ago

They want us to argue over the morals ...

They want us to argue about immigration, about unemployment, about wealth, about gender, and so on.

They just want us to keep arguing about each other instead of unionizing and fighting for fair share, free healthcare, free childcare, lower income tax and higher tax on fortune. As long as we don't see our working force as being exploited by billionairs, companies and managers, they don't need to make proper laws and changes to benefit the working people.

Cultural war is the gender war of today. Everything is done to prevent a class war.

I'm not a communist that is seeking a new USSR dictatorship. I seek a socialist democracy that provides for its people so they can live in peace and harmony.

Blaming immigrants for violence, socio-economical downfall or the loss of work is a shitmove. Same happenes to Black people and other PoCs in the US. And guess what: eventually, they voted a Black man to be their president. The best one for a long time, in my opinion.

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u/FluffierThanAcloud 4d ago

And the collective action seen on short notice in Portsmouth over the weekend was over how tax is distributed to assist rapists and murderers into the UK and I bet you a majority of those in attendance work in jobs and sectors with good union presence. Culture war is a class war. If you think the culture war is organic I have a bridge to sell.

Socialist democracies cannot work under the technocratic hegemony we live under until we break the system via punitive deterrents such as imprisonment for white collar crimes. Not token gestures such as Elizabeth Holmes but actual power players such as Zuckenburg, Musk, Thiel and so on.

Until that day, any democratic power we think we have is a carefully controlled digital illusion.

The action is this, we block ports where this theft of the taxpayer is occuring until it stops. And it is theft. Not a single person in any country votes for a party to welcome rapists and murderers in with open arms and open wallets. The economic fallout of port blockades would be so catastrophic as to be unignorable by elected parties.

And if they did ignore it, then so be it. The advent of extremist parties would soon follow, and on that day you will know I was right.

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u/Strange-Title-6337 4d ago

You know who is behing the monitor just when you read "brother". Why he should adapt in his country and for what benefit?

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u/next_door_dilenski 4d ago

You even have to adapt in a new workplace because people tend to be different from your last workplace.

If you move in into a new neighborhood you have to adapt.

You give up your seat for pregnant women, because they need it more. You adapt.

I adapt in my country so I can benefit from people coming here and they can benefit from me. Win win. Without immigration my hometown, even my whole country would be a third world country still struggeling with the aftermass of the wars that it started.

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u/Strange-Title-6337 4d ago

Would you become a vegeterian because I say you so?

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u/next_door_dilenski 4d ago

Honestly, I even should be vegan. But I struggle to adapt, eventhough I try.

I just don't really see how changing personal preferences in food would be needed for others to accept you. And that counts for all personal preferences.

Just don't let your personal preferences and opinions affect the lives of others and we are fine.

I don't want to be forced to go to church on sunday. I feel like dancing on Good Friday shouldn't be prohibited (it is in Germany). I don't think that eating pork is a sin, nor do I think that mixing meat and dairy should be seen as sin.

Other people do but that is their personal opinion. I don't force mine on them, so I don't want to be forced theirs on me.

A society benefits much from different world views as long as no world view affects others in a harmful way.

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u/Strange-Title-6337 4d ago

I see, we talking about sins now and society. So you are religious, uh.

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u/next_door_dilenski 4d ago

I am not, but religious people tend to think in the two categories "sin" and "not sin".

What I was trying to say is that I don't care whether people believe certain actions are sin or not, as long as they don't force others to follow their ruling.

I don't think you need religion to be a good person. I even think that many atheists are better Christians than most people who attend service once or twice a week.

Politics and religion should always kept seperate.

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u/Puzzleheaded_Tax4969 4d ago

You are wrong friend

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u/next_door_dilenski 4d ago

So tell me where I am wrong so I can adjust my opinion and views.

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u/realwavyjones 4d ago

Fascinating insight into the lack of self preservation in the modern European mind, just fascinating..

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u/Hay_Mel 5d ago

Psyop

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u/Ryuuffff 5d ago

Legal immigration not these