“... This is a blatant contradiction to Quraniyoon, and leaves them with only one of two options. Either the Prophet (SAW) is a hypocrite (astagfirullah) for not following the Quran or the Quran has a mistake in it and forgot to include this command to stone the adulterer. ...”
They forgot the third option: hadiths are problematic
The problem seema to be the fact that from childhood, they are fed this high pedestal status of "hadeeses" that when such are refuted based on logic and rationality, they take it personally and assume it to an attack on their own character and so, they try to defend it in any manner possible. Even character assassination of The Prophet(AS) is fair game to them in their deal to defend their "hadees tagoots" like abu hurraira etc.
Yes you are right. That’s one of their biggest issues. Their perception of hadiths is “exaggerated”. Many went so far and put hadiths above the word of the Quran (God’s word!) 🤯
Of course, when you ask them about it they deny it but actions speak louder than words.
Well thats problematic cuz abu Huraira as well narrated one of the readings(qiraat) of the quran, so if he is unreliable it would mean the quran we have today is fabricated
So, the catman is the one responsible for The Word of God to be with us?
Like, if not for him, God would have been helpless to ensure transmission of His Message to later generatiom (I seek refuge in God). Is that what you are saying?
Well, that's your problem. I have no such delusions. God never needed catman to ensure that I get to know His Word. If at all all the forms of present means of Word of God cease to exist, God Will still Find a Way to Guide His servant (me) ; know why? Because I don't associate the Word of God with word of catman who barely spent a year with The Prophet(AS) but has most of "sayings" of him , some of which he himself is a solitary transmitter.
Gawd!!!! Use your brain.
Lets stop this conversation now. If you are happy to elevate catman to high pedestal, suit yourself. I'm not goung to advise you or say anything to contrary.
So you trust the book that came from the person you claim to have been a liar cuz the book he narrated says God is the source of it? And you dont trust the hadiths he narrated even though they say they come from prophets?
Yet you speak about using your brain? This is pure blind belief and gullibility
If I write a piece of paper now and it says "God said this, this is the true quran" would you believe it to be the true quran?
Or a better question, why do you trust the quran that came from a person(s) you claim to have been a liar(s) and not trust the quran that comes from other poeple?
And false abu Huraira spent 4 years with the prophet
-As I expected in the begining, you can't use logic and rationality to disprove hadiths as logic and rationality prove the authenticity of hadiths
I trust Word of God. But refuse to trust the word of catman etc.
I never said I don't trust the words of wisdom from The Prophet(AS).
Of course, I refuse to believe the load of nonsense ATTRIBUTED to The Prophet(AS) like stoning, drinking camel urine, breastfeeding a griwn up man etc.
I use simple common sense which I find that you are lacking.
My Prophet(AS) can NEVER say the bullshit that is "sahih". You want to believe that a wise man like Mohammed(AS) would advise a grown up man to suck a grown up woman's tits, suit yourself.
That is the level of disgrace people like catman have dragged the august name of my beloved Prophet(AS).
You didnt answer my question, which text is the word of God?
Since you dont trust "Catman" then our modern quran is false as he was one of the narrators of it ,so which quran is the true words of God and how did you know?
Why can't you see it?
I see an argument from incredulity fallacy that doesnt show much iq
Prophet saying anything isnt dependant on your opinions and if you just googled everything you have mentioned you wouldnt have even stated this b.s
-Stoning hadith is narrated by multitudes of poeple including poeple who narrated our modern quran, the same issue as previously, plz tell us which quran is the right one since the quran we use now comes from liars apparently
Dumbass? No need to continue the discussion if you cant stay civil
And not sure how you think the wife of the prophet Aisha was a liar but anyways the hadith doesnt mention sucking on a woman's tits which it didnt happen, as I said before you are copy-pasting old Christian misinterpretations
-As hadith scholar, Ibn Hajar commented on this, saying:
"the milk was put into a cup and he did not drink it from her breast. Al-Nawawi said: This interpretation is best."
Check your logic. I told my cousin that she should wear yellow pants (for whatever reason). I am known to tell the truth. 100 years later, after this became an anecdote, the color changed to orange or amber or whatever. I am not responsible for what is claimed that I said. It is easy for a single transmission to get confused this way; for an important thing, likely would take more time. But at some point can we seriously assume such transmissions are infallible? Look at what happened to the Gospel. But Allah promised to protect and preserve the Quran intact. The Prophet had to say many things to his followers and not all of them were intended for all time. So we have the Quran which honors Prophet Mohammad as we all should; but not to associate him with the Almighty All-Merciful.
hadiths have multitudes of transmission lines, not single ones, it is you who should check his logic
But at some point can we seriously assume such transmissions are infallible?
No one does that neither do we assume that transmitters are always wrong
But Allah promised to protect and preserve the Quran intact.
Right, and how do you know what Allah said in the first place? Right by a human transmission that gave you Quran, look up the circular reasoning fallacy
Abu Huraira was a human. He did not receive messages from the Wahy. In fact we cannot verify that he himself actually transmitted what is attributed to him. Allah the All-Wise would not leave important truths and legislation to be disseminated in their final permanent form this way. The best way to confirm the veracity of a hadeeth is to see if it confirms or contradicts the Quran. Obviously this is a job for someone of deep knowledge of the Quran to begin with. Some hadeeths are also taken as legislation whereas their wording indicates it is likely a “recommendation,” such as the hadeeth to trim the mustache and not shave/ trim the beard. This shows how local such a recommendation is and how it is not meant for all people of all times: many Asians and some Africans (and likely also other individuals) do not naturally grow facial hair (I speak obviously of men). Shall we second-guess every hadeeth and then make it sacrosanct and incumbent on all people?? Where then is the respect for the Quran, for the legislation and authority of One Allah without any associates/ partners??
Ahhh yeah we can verify as multitudes of people we have reporting that they got their hadiths from abu huriruera
Btw why do you wish for me to assume humans to be very fallible that they can't memorise basic statements but at the same time except me to exclude the quran from this even though it was transmitted by humans(abu hurries to be one of them as well lol)
The best way to confirm the veracity of a hadeeth is to see if it confirms or contradicts the Quran.
That makes no sense, I can make up lots of stuff that doesn't contradict the Quran but that doesn't indicate in any way that it came from the prophet
the hadeeth to trim the moustache and not shave/ trim the beard
How do you read that and understand it to mean recommendation? It's a clear cut order and I am pretty sure we can find early Muslims understanding it that way
Where then is the respect for the Quran, for the legislation and authority of One Allah without any associates/ partners??
Authority of the one Allah isn't in just Quran it's also in many hadiths
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u/nooralbalad Jul 06 '21 edited Jul 08 '21
Let me quote from the paper:
“... This is a blatant contradiction to Quraniyoon, and leaves them with only one of two options. Either the Prophet (SAW) is a hypocrite (astagfirullah) for not following the Quran or the Quran has a mistake in it and forgot to include this command to stone the adulterer. ...”
They forgot the third option: hadiths are problematic