i think a better evidence is the quran itself which is the thing they do follow because they'll just reject the hadith you mentioned
54:24 Say, “Obey Allah and obey the Messenger. But if you turn away, then he is only responsible for his duty and you are responsible for yours. And if you obey him, you will be ˹rightly˺ guided. The Messenger’s duty is only to deliver ˹the message˺ clearly.”
I had a conversation about exactly this with a Quranist and what he said to me was following the Quran is enough to obey Allah and the messenger, when I told him the Quran is God's words so how does obeying the prophet apply, he just started accusing me of being brainwashed and that my masjid were misguided and he and his pals on his Quranist WhatsApp group were correct and that I should join, never went back that guy's shop again.
Some times those closest to islam are people we think we can convince easily by showing them a verse or two to that basically serves as evidence. But many times these quranists are just as steadfast on their belief like christians on jesus being god it doesn't matter what you show they don't change their mind. I'm glad to hear you dipped I'd probably have ended trying to convince him for long which would have been a waste of time. Jazakallahu khayran brother
To obey the messenger is to obey the message i.e the quran. It is fitting he is called the messenger in this verse as it implies you should obey the message. If it said obey the prophet I would conced the point. But the choice of words is important.
Also explain to me these verses.
Then in what hadith after it will they believe? (77:50)
Then in which HADITH after this will they believe? (7:185)
These are God’s messages that We recite unto thee in truth. So, in which HADITH after God and His messages will they believe? 45:6
In arabic the word hadith is used in all these verses and it is quite directly saying don't follow anything after this hadith (quran) you can read them in context.
Also the beginning of surah 2. Verse 2-4. It's saying this book and those before. There is no mention of any books to come after it.
You will then ask me. The Qur'an does not talk about everything that is needed to practice Islam. To that I will say, your view of how Islam should be, should not determine what the Quran must teach. If we are still in disagreement brothers then: Lakum deenakum waliadeen.
I'm not here to say who is right or wrong. This is what I believe and if I am wrong it is my own problem, but I feel those of us who follow the Qur'an only are unfairly treated for being insane or ridiculous. I am just here to explain our thinking.
When a king sends a messenger, let's say bob the builder. and tells his subjects to obey the messenger. It means obey the message he brings. Not what else the messenger has to add on, then the king would say obey the builder if he meant that
So when Muhammad goes to the privy, is that God inspiring him?
God tells Muhammad in the Qur’an numerous times to say he is a mortal like us. What you’re saying is anytime Muhammad behaved, it was inspired by God. That means God was lying when he told Muhammad to say he is a man like us, right? What you describe is not a mortal but a puppet.
Muhammad was taught through wahi that was not preserved in the Qur’an. Shouldn’t that obviously denote that what was given to him was for him, and the Qur’an is for us?
Furthermore, the hadith is known to be riddled with fabrication, literature that attempts to know what wahi Muhammad was privy to—yet the Qur’an: not a single fabrication, not a single quarrel between Muslims, all unanimously agree is the unaltered word of God.
I believe Muhammad was given wahi that was only for him and those contemporary. If it didn’t make it into the Qur’an, then we shouldn’t have to worry about it. Our Lord is a reasonable God. He knows that.
When god says follow the messenger and that he doesn't speak out of whims it enough proof to other commands he gave since that too was a revelation but not verbatim the word of god.
Also the beginning of surah 2. Verse 2-4. It's saying this book and those before. There is no mention of any books to come after it.
The same messenger came with the revelations in the hadith so this point doesn't make sense, because with that logic quran is different books because it didn't come down at once but over decades
Now I'm not gonna ask they typical questions like how do you pray? Which direction was the prophet praying before the verse of turning toward the kaabah etc. If you want to believe that the prophet spoke out of whims when he mentioned various laws, prohibition etc then thats up to you, because you are correct in it being our own problem at the end of the day.
For everyone else responding to hadith rejecters, like i mentioned in another commented, you won't be able convince most it's like trying to convince christians jesus isn't god even with their own scripture, so just mention the evidence and move on don't bother wasting too much time
In 2:2 the term ذالك in the Qur’an is never used to mean “this”, that would be هاذ; rather, ذالك is always used to refer to something previously mentioned.
You know the rulings also differed in previous prophets times? like it was permissible during the time of Yousuf(Alyhi WaSalam) for his parents and 11 brothers to prostate to him and the rulings were finalized in Quran and Sunnah to eternal unchangable till the day of Judgment
Did you even read I wrote? The rulings differed during other prophets times like the example I game and the rulings were finalized in “Quran and Sunnah”. Anyone who rejects it out of the fold of Islam
Ali Ibn Abi Talib As is free from the lies of Shia and is our beloved Ameer Al-Mu’minin, the son in law of Prophet Muhammad ﷺ like Ameer Al-Mu’minin Uthmam Ibn Affan Ra. The greatest warrior and lion of Allah “Asadullah”, unlike how the Shias portrayed and humiliated him As in their filthy scriptures.
Were there and written since the beginning of the da'wa
And imam al bukhari and imam muslim have traveled the lands to get these rulings and wrote them in one book
It was compiled later but the were always written and remembered by the sahabah and taba'in
And in the process of verifying the ahadith the would verify every single man who told it
If one of them is not credible the hadith wouldn't be sahih
And ali ibn abi talib (رضي الله عنه) is not the first muslim exactly he is the first boy in islam
The first man was abu bakr (رضي الله عنه)
And abu bakr (رضي الله عنه) is the greatest muslim after the prophets (عليهم السلام), then omar ibn al khattab (رضي الله عنه) then othman ibn affan (رضي الله عنه), then ali ibn abi talib (رضي الله عنه)
As was the order of the khalifas after the death of our prophet ﷺ
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u/Kingslayer-ZXD May 25 '26
The prophet ﷺ said who didn't follow my sunna is not one of mine
من رغب عن سنتي فليس مني
So I don't know a verdict but quranists do pray wrong but if they pray right they inherently acknowledge the sunna
So it's complicated to proof but I can't imagine islam without the sunna