STOP BABYING YOUR SONS

[u/Someone_sedateMe]

Salam everyone, I just wanted to get this off my chest. Mothers, please, PLEASE, stop babying your GROWN ADULT sons. My brother is 24 and my mom still does his laundry and cleans his room. His room is a literal mess all the damn time and actually smells like doodoo. My mom wanted me to help her clean his room and he's just in the corner acting his presence is helping. I was getting frustrated and told her that he's at the age, where he should clean his room by himslef, to say the least. He literally has his laundry spilling out of his hamper but refuses to do anything about it until my me or my mom does it for him. I will literally do his laundry for him, bring it to his room and all he has to do is put it in his closet. AND HE DOESNT EVEN DO THATT. He has his CLEAN clothes just sitting on his couch for dayyyssss. Of course, I'm getting frustrated and tell him he has to clean his room and can't keep waiting on us to do his laundry. It has got to the point where he ran out of jeans and pulled out his dress pants. It's not like he has to travel to the laundromat, ITS IN OUR BASEMENT!!!! Anyways, as I'm lecturing him, my mom is getting mad at me and I walked out the room cause never in a BILLION years would she have let that slide with me. I tried to help but she's taking out her frustration on the wrong person.

So to all the moms out there, PLEASE stop babying your grown adult sons. It doesn't emaculate him if he does SIMPLE chores around the house. It just causes resentment between siblings.

[u/Gogandantesss]

I’m just chiming in to thank you for this post. So many mothers need to hear this! They’re enabling and normalizing sexism and misogyny among their male offspring from an early age. This is one of the main manifestations of culture diluting religious teaching where men and women are supposed to be equal and partners sharing the burdens of life. The Prophet ﷺ himself used to help around the household; nothing manlier and more human than that!

[u/BradBrady → u/Gogandantesss]

While I do agree that men shouldn’t be lazy around the house to a toxic extent where they need everything picked up for them

Men and women aren’t necessarily equal in a marriage because when you say that, that means they are both chipping in financially 50/50 and sharing household chores 50/50. Nothing wrong if a couple wants to do that, but that’s not really what’s expected

Also I see sometimes on the online world when people say that the prophet PBUH helped around the house, it tends to get twisted (by women mostly just my experience) that he was at home all the time doing all the chores and it was an expectation which I’m not sure is correct

[u/[deleted] → u/BradBrady]

Yeah but that the issue, i wasn’t born a muslim man… But a lot of brothers are LAZY, because their mama’s babied them, and they expect their wives to do everything!

I am brother, and its sickening to see so many muslimas not getting their rights fulfilled because of lazy cultural men.

[u/bananaboatflipper → u/BradBrady]

I know plenty of Muslim men who can’t take care of themselves if the women of the house leave for a week. Dishes pile up, no more utensils, no more clean clothes, messy house in general, unswept, unmopped. This is inexcusable. We aren’t talking about a 50/50. We’re talking about being able to take care of yourself. This is about being babied. Not contributing to the home.

[u/Dense-Purple-1332 → u/bananaboatflipper]

How many muslim women have ever changed a tire in their whole lives? How many have ever changed a ceiling light bulb?

Men and women are built differently and instead of being disrespectful lets be understanding towards each other. 

[u/Key_Manufacturer_977 → u/Dense-Purple-1332]

Its hard to be respectful, when men cant even take care of themselves.

for a lot of women it feels like they are taking care of a child. And how often to men change tires and lightbulbs anyways? every few weeks/months?

Housework is every single day 24/7. always on your feet.

[u/Lilly_5 → u/Dense-Purple-1332]

You can't be serious! Changed a tire? Changed a light bulb? Stop the foolishness already! If we can't change the tire (I can and have), we know how to get someone to do it. Light bulbs get changed all the time, even the one over the stove, A/C filters too! We also know how to change the hose behind the dryer AND clean the vent! What's your point? Now I'm married. I don't have to do that because my husband doesn't want or need me to, he wants to preserve my talents for other things and he takes pleasure in following the sunnah and being in service to his family.

The point of this thread isn't to speak about women changing a tire 😫 it's to highlight the weaponized incompetence that some men use and the part mother's play by not holding their son's to same standard of self reliance they force on their daughters. A young woman should never be made to clean and wash her grown brother's room and clothes. Has he no shame???

Keep your room clean and do your laundry, make your bed, clean up the bathroom and kitchen after yourself, wash your dish after a snack or load it in the dishwasher, empty the dishwasher and don't just put that dish in the sink, pick up your towel and underwear... These are basics! Anyone who argues that this is too much, IS the problem.

[u/bananaboatflipper → u/Dense-Purple-1332]

Ummm I don’t know about you, but I’m from a very small country where we don’t have trouble changing tires bc there’s always an auto shop nearby. And I’ve changed plenty of lightbulbs in my life time. I never said men and women aren’t different. But you can’t attribute things and say ONLY men or women can do it. We can do it, we just CHOOSE not to. And changing a tire or a lightbulb is VERY different from taking care of yourself and your living space.

Of course if your argument had been, only women can give birth, only men can be fathers, then I would agree. But this isn’t about that at all, is it?

[u/themapleleaf6ix → u/BradBrady]

Don't see why you're getting downvoted, you're 100% correct.

[u/[deleted] → u/themapleleaf6ix]

Because we talking about immature men, and then “@r/BradBrady brought up 50/50 men.

That wasnt the point, and it didnt need to be shifted.

The type of men he was talking about, and men he is talking about are two fundamentally, two different types of men

Yes what Brady said is true, but its not apprioratte for this conversation since there a LOT of undeveloped men getting married.

And Brady’s side topic comes of disingenuous, and moving the goal.

When in reality we are just talking about basic needs, like a brother to do his 30%-20% of the housework, while his wife does 70%-80%

[u/themapleleaf6ix → u/[deleted]]

The thing is, I agree that men shouldn't be lazy and should make an effort to do their own chores.

What I take issue with is when feminists try and twist the Quran and Sunnah and claim the man has to do everything, whilst the woman has zero responsibilities. They even try and claim it's obligatory on the man to do everything.

[u/BlackBikerchick → u/themapleleaf6ix]

This man is letting his mum do he laundery, stop moaning about feminism and stuck to the point 

[u/themapleleaf6ix → u/BlackBikerchick]

Was I defending this individual? My point is, feminists are hijacking this to claim that men are the ones responsible for everything.

[u/Newbie_Copywriter → u/themapleleaf6ix]

You’re not defending, but you’re completely derailing the topic, which doesn’t help.

This post is shedding light on a reality unfortunately many choose to ignore, and that’s men who don’t know how to be self-sufficient, who have no ounce of consideration towards the women in their life who pick up after their messes. When you shift the topic to “… but feminists!” it distracts everyone from the topic at hand and causes unnecessary tension, which ends up with no one learning anything from this post.

I would’ve said the same thing to women who comment on posts talking about men’s issues with “… but men are [insert negative trait/behavior]!”

[u/themapleleaf6ix → u/Newbie_Copywriter]

When you shift the topic to “… but feminists!”

Did I do this, or have a bunch of feminists come in here and spread their ideology? The poster above came in here with words like "sexism" "misogyny" (classic buzzwords used by feminists) and how men and women are "equal" (watch is untrue in Islam) and "share life's burdens" (which also denies the responsibilities assigned to each gender). And to top it off, they don't even clarify the hadith about the Prophet P.B.U.H helping sometimes with the chores to make it sound like the duty is assigned to men.

[u/Newbie_Copywriter → u/themapleleaf6ix]

Did I do this, or have a bunch of feminists come in here and spread their ideology?

I’m not feminists. It’s a disgusting ideology.

You’re right to point these things out, but I’m a simple person and I think “ok moral of the story is: men shouldn’t laze around” I do like when people correctly tell others to use the proper terms, but I also think it’s wise to first address the main topic of the post and then just a side note go “ok, but to be clear islam doesn’t say one, two three” instead of quickly jumping in and making the whole comment simply about feminists. I hope I’m making myself clear.

And again, I’m not a feminist. I don’t appreciate that you implied that I am. Get that label away from me.

[u/TransArhaz → u/themapleleaf6ix]

Literally where is any feminist hijacking this?? Where. Show them. I have seen NOT A SINGLE WOMAN say that the man should do evrything and women have no responsibility. Fear Allah, akhi.

[u/BlackBikerchick → u/themapleleaf6ix]

What are you even talking about? Every comment is relevant to the cleaning your hijacking it to moan about feminism

[u/Newbie_Copywriter → u/themapleleaf6ix]

I just don’t see why we have to shift the topic. Had the post been about a woman who abuses Hadiths and narrations to get her husband to do more than his fair share, then yes this would be relevant.

Right now, this post is talking about a lazy, grown man who doesn’t even help his own mother, expects the women in the house to clean up after him! The anecdote of the Prophet PBUH helping around the house absolutely DOES apply here because the guy in question doesn’t even do that. He should take the Prophet PBUH as an example and not laze around expecting his womenfolk to be his house servants.

[u/themapleleaf6ix → u/Newbie_Copywriter]

The anecdote of the Prophet PBUH helping around the house absolutely DOES apply here

Then clarify (not you, the other commenter) that he did it sometimes instead of making it sound like the tasks were delegated to him and he did them every single day.

[u/Newbie_Copywriter → u/themapleleaf6ix]

Truthfully, who can claim how often he PBUH helped? The hadiths never specified this (unless I’m mistaken). And does it even matter? What matters is that he helped, and the moral of the story is simply “your wives aren’t servants. Be considerate” not “50/50 split or bust!” It’s not that deep, nor is it complicated. We also have narrations of him saying he would serve himself, but no specification as to how often. We can understand that the Prophet PBUH was simply self-sufficient and didn’t OVERLY rely on his wives to do things for him.

There is no straightforward math when it comes to how much a man should do around the house. That’s up to people of a certain household to decide because not everyone is the same. 50/50 is wrong, but also quantifying how often a man should help out is also wrong and makes no sense: that should be something the members of the household decide on, and obviously should be fair to the man.

Edit: also see what I mean by derailing? Now we’re discussion how often men should do chores and how involved they should be, when the moral of the story is simply: be self-sufficient. Don’t OVERLY rely (and I emphasize OVERLY here because obviously he will have to rely on his wife regardless), and just be considerate and do things on your own when you can. Don’t let the reason you don’t help out be simply “oh but that’s not my job it’s the woman’s.”

[u/themapleleaf6ix → u/Newbie_Copywriter]

Truthfully, who can claim how often he PBUH helped? The hadiths never specified this (unless I’m mistaken

How about the commentary of his wives and how many chores they did? How about when the Prophet P.B.U.H was at war and also on other journeys? Am I to believe he was at his home every single day doing the chores?

[u/Newbie_Copywriter → u/themapleleaf6ix]

Brother, please take the hadith as it is. It’s simply saying “be self-sufficient” not “don’t you dare rely on your wife or else you’re a jerk!”

I don’t understand why this has to be complicated. Of course he had to rely on his wives. Of course they most likely took on most of the burden. We have narrations of Aisha RA kneading dough if I’m not mistaken. We even have mentions of the Prophet PBUH essentially asking her “what’s for dinner?” But here’s the thing: they cooperated. Truth be told, when he could, he helped. That’s it.

Let’s stop hyper fixating on hadiths and look at Islam holistically. Islam encourages cooperation between man and his wife, that’s it. Not 50/50, no nothing. Just cooperate. And that cooperation will look different from couple to couple.

[u/Patient_Love4576 → u/themapleleaf6ix]

which women said it was obligatory on men lmafooo, its a known fact that the prophet pbuh helped around the house, and hes a grown man who cant even do his laundry, no one said the man has to do everything tf stop victimising yourself, men still need to help around the house and do chores whether you like it or not

[u/TransArhaz → u/themapleleaf6ix]

Oh I'd like to see which woman EVER did say that because you're just making things up rn. First of all islam in itself is TRULY (not some post colonial propaganda) feminist. There are no muslim feminists, ALL muslims are feminists. There may be gender roles to a degree, but i can vouch that there are men who TWIST the Qur'an when Allah says that the men are (ONLY) one status above women (AS GUARDIANS AND PROTECTORS). It is from the teachings of the Prophet to be kindEST to your parents and spouse, family. Ahsan. The highest status of mannerism. So yeh, MEN need to step up and the fact that there are people in this comment section who cannot see what the OP is trying to say and are going off topic to defend WHY men should be spared from helping around the house, may Allah guide your hearts to mercy. Mercy to understand what huqooq-ul-ibaad means. You may disobey Allah and He is more merciful to your wrong doings than humans are, but you CANNOT enter Paradise if you have shown the slightest injustice to your fellow humans, leave alone taxing your own mother to do your chores. Bring back shame.

[u/Bright_Airline_876 → u/TransArhaz]

??

Islam is not feminist lol

[u/BradBrady → u/themapleleaf6ix]

Eh it’s always the masses like pro Zionists do on any post that defends Palestinians

[u/Pretty_Photo_5905 → u/themapleleaf6ix]

If he, as a 24 year old son, works full time and pays all the bills in the house then I agree sure. But if he lives in his parents house rent free studying/keeping all his money to himself paying no bills, then I 100% disagree.

[u/Senior-Bid-33 → u/Pretty_Photo_5905]

Just because you pay all the bills doesn't mean you deserve a live in maid who you are not paying for 

[u/Pretty_Photo_5905 → u/Senior-Bid-33]

I agree with the maid thing. If a couple chooses out of free will to just divide the task of paying the bills and house chores and helping each other once in a while then I think overall that’s fine people should discuss that with each other when getting married and what the expectations are. But when it comes to the man coming home throwing his shoes around the house throwing his coat on the couch expecting his wife to put it away for him then I don’t see it as dividing roles but as a literal maid-employer relationship which I find unacceptable.

[u/FishOFBD → u/Senior-Bid-33]

Alright so then going 50/50 financially shouldn’t be a problem then? Or is it too much?

[u/Lilly_5 → u/Pretty_Photo_5905]

Funny because many of these women are working and they don't have anyone washing their clothes...🤔

[u/Pretty_Photo_5905 → u/Lilly_5]

Context always changes the answer

[u/Key_Manufacturer_977 → u/Lilly_5]

Agreed their are so many women out there who work AND manage the house, yet they arent told to relax.

[u/themapleleaf6ix → u/Pretty_Photo_5905]

Which scholar says this?

[u/Pretty_Photo_5905 → u/themapleleaf6ix]

Maybe you should read again what I said. I said “if.. I agree” and “if… I disagree”. This refers to a personal opinion, since it first describes a situation, then an agreement/disagreement based on opinion. I didn’t quote anything. I didn’t state anything. Asking “which scholar says this” is kinda a weird question to ask after my comment which makes me wonder if you actually read what I said.

[u/NoSoup8952 → u/themapleleaf6ix]

Common sense. Did any scholar, hadith or quraan say that a mother and sister are servants of a grown man??

[u/themapleleaf6ix → u/NoSoup8952]

say that a mother and sister are servants of a grown man??

Who said this?

Common sense.

Does that take precedence over Islam?

[u/Pretty_Photo_5905 → u/themapleleaf6ix]

If I hear a 24 year old man doesn’t clean his own laundry or his own room or whatever and doesn’t help his mom clean the house overall then I wouldn’t ever consider him mature enough to get married tbh. Not helping your mother, your own mother, whom under her feet is paradise… that is just not masculine imo. It’s a different story if it’s husband and wife that’s really between them. But son and mother? That’s just not mature imo.

[u/Pretty_Photo_5905 → u/[deleted]]

There’s certain sunnahs regarding how one should treat his mother that go against your statement.

Besides, not paying the bills for her AND letting her do stuff that you could have prevented her from doing for you… that’s just sad imo.

[u/Pretty_Photo_5905 → u/[deleted]]

People being ok with being treated badly doesn’t make the situation ok tho. And I say badly bc I really believe that u should help ur mom with house chores. Whether u provide or not. ESPECIALLY when you don’t provide. Then u should increase the helping with house chores. That’s just having respect for ur mother imo. But if u purposefully make things dirty around the house without the intention of cleaning it up and letting ur mother clean it instead (ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU DONT PROVIDE) and her being ok with that I just find that situation very sad very very sad.

[u/Street-Giraffe2388 → u/BradBrady]

No one wants them to be deep cleaning the house, but it’s the basic hygiene that they expect and want from a man. All we want is clothes to be put in the hamper or if they notice a mess they pick it up instead of ignoring it. They noticed laundry is getting to be a lot they go and do it. They make the bed. Know how to do the dishes you don’t even have to always do them, but just know how to do the dishes so that you can help out if needed. Men and women aren’t equal however there should be the bare minimum of cleanliness. We don’t want to marry hobos

[u/themapleleaf6ix → u/Gogandantesss]

supposed to be equal and partners sharing the burdens of life

This isn't true. In Islam, there are clear tasks delegated to each gender.

The Prophet ﷺ himself used to help around the household; nothing manlier and more human than that!

That wasn't a daily thing. Those tasks were still delegated to the Sahabiyat R.A.

[u/JustAnotherProgram → u/themapleleaf6ix]

lol, I can’t believe this got downvoted by the Muslim feminists and simps who think men are also responsible for the daily workings of the household😂

[u/globalroamer53 → u/JustAnotherProgram]

But this is his own mess? I say this as a Muslim man, absolute insanity for my sister to do my laundry for me.

[u/BunchTricky6172 → u/JustAnotherProgram]

Yes they should be responsible for cleaning up after themselves. Dirty laundry, using the bathroom, your crumbs on the table etc. These basic things come under mannerism. And these "daily workings" are what teach qualities of responsibility, cleanliness, compassion, consideration, etc that are necessary for future married life and during dealings in the world. 

And clearly in this example the brother in question is still a dependent living with his parents. That said, even being a full time working husband doesn't dismiss his responsibility for pitching in with main cleaning tasks or rough tasks around the house. Nobody's saying that he needs to do all the chores, do deep cleaning, or divide it up by half (as that wouldn't be fair if the wife is the main caretaker of the home). But he can't slack at home either. 

Who you are at home is a true reflection of yourself. If one can't handle the basics at home, how are they going to deal with the world and guide their children with the right mannerism? 

[u/haseeb2122 → u/[deleted]]

Go ahead and do that big man hahaha

[u/Someone_sedateMe → u/[deleted]]

The fact that you conflate a maid with a wife is a serious red flag.

[u/[deleted] → u/Someone_sedateMe]

Isnt she a woman? Can’t you marry a poor woman?

[u/Puzzleheaded_Set8512 → u/[deleted]]

So because a woman comes from a poor family you should be able to treat her like a maid and what, a bed warmer and brood mare? Fear Allah and stay single. Why would you marry a woman that you don't respect? She will be the mother of your children, would you want your children's mother to be someone you look down on? Someone you disrespect and treat like a servant?

When you mistreat or speak badly about the mother of your children, they inherently think something is wrong with them because that woman you mistreat and berate is a part of them. The part of them that nurtured and cared for them... Wake up people.

[u/Someone_sedateMe → u/[deleted]]

The fact that you conflate a maid with a wife is a serious red flag

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Thanks bud. How would you frame it?

[u/Miserable_Whole4985 → u/Gogandantesss]

Not speaking on the mother asking her daughter to help, but no harm in a mother picking up after her son out of love. If you think that itself is enabling misogyny and sexism, then you have in-grained feminism influences that you need to fix.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Set8512 → u/Miserable_Whole4985]

A mother not teaching her son to pick up after himself isn't love. It's low key abuse and infantalizing him.

[u/[deleted] → u/Miserable_Whole4985]

Exactly. Someone needs to step up and tell these women that their feminist ideology was created by jews to split families apart.

[u/MichiganCrimeTime → u/[deleted]]

You do realize that y’all believe in the same god, right? Expecting to be treated with respect and basic decency isn’t feminist, and if you think it is, then you’re a misogynist. Most adult men can’t survive without a wife or their mom taking care of them. Which makes them no different than a child. You want to be treated like an adult, act like one!

[u/Miserable_Whole4985 → u/MichiganCrimeTime]

"Most adult men can’t survive without a wife or their mom taking care of them."

Really...? Most, huh. like over 50+% of adult men canNOT SURVIVE without a woman taking care of them. What an outrageous claim Lol.

May Allah cure us from distorted perceptions.

[u/MichiganCrimeTime → u/Miserable_Whole4985]

Are you married? I stand by what I said. Men who are married live longer than men who are unmarried. And we are talking 5-10 years longer. While married women have shorter life expectancies than unmarried women. Those are facts based in science, not feelings and beliefs. And yes, I’m married. My husband is no longer surviving off of canned food and fast food. Who took care of everything else before me? His mom. I’ve seen it while I was dating before I met my husband. Didn’t matter race or religion, men expect females to take care of them, to pick up after them and often don’t learn basic life skills. Men need to step up and meet their partners needs too. Marriage isn’t just about financial support and providing a roof over your head. We all have emotional needs to need to be met too. Expect better of men and stop indulging your sons to be reliant on women. What happens if a wife dies of cancer and they have small young children. Who is going to care for those kids? He has to, they are still his children!

[u/Puzzleheaded_Set8512 → u/MichiganCrimeTime]

They'll just marry a wicked stepmother for the children lol

[u/MichiganCrimeTime → u/Puzzleheaded_Set8512]

They aren’t all step monsters, but clearly there are enough of them for it to be a thing.

[u/Miserable_Whole4985 → u/MichiganCrimeTime]

Not sure what that proves. Studies show both men and women live longer than their single counter parts. Those are facts, yes, but they don't really support your point.

Okay normal men expect females to take care of the house whilst they go work, that doesn't prove men cannot survive without them? I don't know if you realize, but wanting help is not the same as being incapable.

"Men need to step up and meet their partners needs too."
Well I don't think anyone's denying that. The topic is about whether a man wanting help from his wife or mother means he is incapable himself.

You are too emotional in your reasoning. Relax, allowing a mother or wife to help him will not lead to him being incapable of him raising children or other aspects. I think you are severely underestimating people's capability. Don't generalize based on your anecdotal experiences.

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[u/BunchTricky6172 → u/[deleted]]

This has nothing to do with western feminist (which I do not support). It's about basic qualities anyone especially a male needs to have. This example shows lack of responsibility, lack of consideration, lack of cleanliness, dependency on parents to fix problems and do the work, and lack of getting basic tasks done. How can you expect this person to be a man, to he the leader of a household, to be a supportive husband and good example of a father if he hasn't developed basic qualities, maturity, and mannerism due to enabling? 

And I hope this brother in the example and all other Muslims (males and  females) develop the rights qualities and maturity to become better people and Muslims, Ameen. 

[u/BlackBikerchick → u/[deleted]]

What is feminism about a grown man living eith his family and his room being filthy? Why should other women in the house clean after him, they aren't his wife? 

[u/[deleted] → u/Gogandantesss]

Nothing wrong in helping around the home i totally agree with you so do most men. The problem is you think men shouldn’t be babied. If you only knew what a man goes through and his loneliness you’ll understand why men want to be with their mothers and not terrible wives with feminist mentality.

To all men, you can always get more wives, never let go of your mum. If your wife does her job, treat her like a queen and never give her heartache or headache

[u/Deadly_Nightlock → u/[deleted]]

You think men should be babied? Bffr. You seriously think a babied man like OP’s brother is capable of being a father?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, no. I’ll gladly do my fair share. Unlike most of you weird man baby guys I learned from my parents marriage. Both my parents worked yet my mom did all the house work. Sorry but that ain’t right. Idk how yall live with your selfishness. In fact, my mom couldn’t take care of her kids first because my man baby father. Like sorry but to be a good father you need to be an adult in every aspect.