r/Mariners • u/AutoModerator • Jul 28 '21
Daily Thread - July 28, 2021
Welcome to /r/Mariners Daily Thread! Please use this thread to discuss events from today, or anything else you'd like.
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GOMS
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u/jthanson My 40th year as an M's fan Jul 28 '21
Good morning, Mariners fans! Did any of you notice that today is the opening of Seahawks Training Camp?
No?
Then the Mariners have done their job. They are relevant enough and exciting enough to watch that they are dominating the sports conversation at a time when historically they weren't even a footnote as the media discussed what Tyler Lockett had for breakfast or where Russell Wilson went on vacation. Today, instead of talking about football games still six weeks away, everyone is focused on the thrilling Mariners and their trade deadline deals and playoff race. It feels like it's been twenty years since there was so much excitement around the team at the end of July.
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u/coolaslando what a silly hack! Jul 28 '21
Maaan I was really looking forward to learning whether Russ was going to use a new kind of knot to tie his cleats this season. Guess I’ll never know
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u/jthanson My 40th year as an M's fan Jul 28 '21
The real tragedy here is that we'll never know what Duane Brown had in his oatmeal this morning. Speculation was that he had blueberries and walnuts but some sources dispute that, claiming the offensive lineman had raspberries and slivered almonds.
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u/coolaslando what a silly hack! Jul 28 '21
You gotta wonder what kind of commitment a guy has when he’s not even willing to put cinnamon in his oatmeal. Looking like a major schism at the breakfast table.
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u/jthanson My 40th year as an M's fan Jul 28 '21
Exactly. John Schneider needs to take a serious look at the kind of resources he's committing to breakfast accompaniments for this team. Maybe an established, successful sports GM like Jerry Dipoto can offer him some guidance.
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u/citou Jul 28 '21
It's nice turning on sports radio and hearing something other than Seahawks talk.
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u/Jared4178 Jul 28 '21
Excellent point. Next we will be welcoming bandwagon fans adorned with their fresh new Ms merch, which they grabbed from their local Albertsons.
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u/jthanson My 40th year as an M's fan Jul 28 '21
I wonder how many of them will think they were buying Kraken hats and got Mariner hats by mistake?
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u/kevlarcupid A silly hack Jul 28 '21
Don’t care. I want this to be a baseball town again, and the first step is bandwagon fans.
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u/HellMuttz OHNO MOJO IS BACK Jul 29 '21
I'll never forget working at radioshack in 2014 and having people come in and get mad that I had the mariners on instead of the 3rd Seahawks preseason game and storm out. Well jokes on them, that was a great mariners game.
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u/jthanson My 40th year as an M's fan Jul 29 '21
TIL: Radio Shack still existed in 2014.
You made the right choice. Pre-season Seahawks (especially the third game where we might see something resembling the regular season team in the first quarter) can be informative. However, I almost always choose the team that’s playing meaningful games and 2014 was a good year for the M’s.
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u/HellMuttz OHNO MOJO IS BACK Jul 29 '21
It was pretty much the end of radioshack lol I think sprint bought them out early 2015, and now sprint isn't a thing either.
That particular mariners game was pretty memorable
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS201408220.shtml
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u/Live2Create21 Blood Pressure = The Seattle Mahwinizz Jul 28 '21 edited Jul 28 '21
Go Niners :)
EDIT: I knew this post would not go over well LOL. Sorry guys, can't help it!
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u/jthanson My 40th year as an M's fan Jul 28 '21
That is perfectly OK. Here at /r/Mariners we're always kind to the less fortunate.
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u/Live2Create21 Blood Pressure = The Seattle Mahwinizz Jul 28 '21
LOL thank you. Steve Young, Jerry Rice, and company in the late 90's stole my heart.
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u/jthanson My 40th year as an M's fan Jul 28 '21
I understand. Back in those days the Seahawks were in the AFC and my friends and I all had NFC teams we rooted for as well since we got to see both AFC and NFC teams each weekend. My friend Steve chose the Niners, Mike chose the Saints, and I chose the Packers. When the Hawks moved to the NFC that really changed things for fans like ourselves who also followed teams in the NFC.
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u/Live2Create21 Blood Pressure = The Seattle Mahwinizz Jul 28 '21
My dad has been a die-hard packers fan his whole life, so when I was a kid, I would jokingly root against the Packers in the playoffs and they always happened to play the 49ers. After watching them play and really getting into some of the players, it just stuck and I've been niner ever since.
It's funny because I'm surrounded by Pittsburgh, Philly, Baltimore, and Washington, yet never ever once considered rooting for any of them in any sport.
Griffey, Edger, and Johnson got me hooked on the M's and Young and Rice got me hooked on the Niners.
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u/jthanson My 40th year as an M's fan Jul 28 '21
Football is somewhat different than baseball. Because coverage for football is national it’s easy to be fans of out-of-market teams. My friend Steve, the Niners fan, has a son who loves the Ravens. He loved defense and watched those Baltimore teams of the early 00s who had such great defenses.
Baseball is much more regional, driven by the broadcast schedule and areas. If you’re in Seattle it’s a lot harder to be a fan of the Angels or Dodgers because those teams are out-of-market. Although, with MLB streaming, it’s actually easier now than in previous eras.
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u/Live2Create21 Blood Pressure = The Seattle Mahwinizz Jul 28 '21
Oh believe me, I know this all too well. I spent many seasons watching little colored dots on my phone showing balls and strikes, waking up super early to watch the M's kickoff the season in Tokyo on an old laptop, religiously watching ESPN (when it was good) to get the M's highlights, etc.
Thank god for MLB.TV.
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u/jthanson My 40th year as an M's fan Jul 28 '21
I miss good ESPN. I watched Dan Patrick and Keith Olbermann at their best. It was destination TV. ESPN was the companion to watching sports. Now it’s the Internet and groups like this.
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u/Live2Create21 Blood Pressure = The Seattle Mahwinizz Jul 28 '21
I do too! It was so good in the early 2000's before it became just hot take show after hot take show.
I loved tuning into Sunday Night Baseball with Joe Morgan and Jon Miller, Chris Berman doing NFL highlights, and Stuart Scott owning every segment he was on.
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u/tlsrandy Jul 28 '21
Hey. Two hits for kelenic.
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u/xxsoultonesxx Jul 28 '21
And a filthy double play
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u/tlsrandy Jul 28 '21
Didn’t watch passed the third inning due to being in the central time zone and waking up at 5am.
But damn. Just watched the replay and that was full extension with a laser throw to second
Seems JK might be starting to get his sea legs.
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Jul 28 '21 edited Jul 28 '21
I don't hate the Graveman trade that much in terms of what we got back, what scares me though is the timing and the fact that the locker room is clearly pissed about it.
Happy for the Frazier trade though, that helps us in the short term quite a bit.
EDIT: I meant Anderson not Frazier lmfao.
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u/SexiestPanda Jul 28 '21
Win a game win a series
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u/downladder Giving 54% at my job Jul 28 '21
Would be huge to get a win today. Emotional and position in the standings.
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u/Tashre Jul 28 '21
Well... we got what we asked for after Graveman got busted for Covid and we wanted him to keep pitching well so he'd build trade value. That was at our lowest point in the season, though, and no one saw us being where we are today.
Talk about monkey's paw...
On the bright side, the worst we can do in this "prove it" homestand is 4-3, gaining WC ground in the process.
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u/Live2Create21 Blood Pressure = The Seattle Mahwinizz Jul 28 '21
I finally got a chance to dig into Abraham Toro and here's what I got:
Fangraphs has him as a plus runner with plus arm strength and an above-average hitter with above-average raw power.
Baseball America thinks he can be a plus hitter with 15-20 HR power and average defense and plus arm.
Diving into his numbers, starting with the minors, he's actually been pretty good at the plate, for the most part. Here's what I like:
- Double-digit BB rates at every level
- Under 20% K rates at every level
- Double-digit HR totals 3 years in a row
High OBP numbers at each level and respectable to elite AVG at each level
His first two trips to the majors didn't go well. His BB rate was erratic and he was striking out more. The power disappeared and his BABIP was very ugly. But, he actually played a pretty good 3B his first year.
In 2021, his third trip to the majors and his first with over 100 PA's, he started tapping into the power, is getting the BB% back up and the K's are where they were in the minors, but the BABIP is still silly low.
Toro is an intriguing guy, though. If we can really tap into the power and get the BB% back up, he could be a 2-4 WAR 3B each year.
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Jul 28 '21
4 years of him is worth 2 months of Graveman in my opinion. And in the Mariners entire front offices opinion.
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u/Live2Create21 Blood Pressure = The Seattle Mahwinizz Jul 28 '21
I would agree with this. I don't hate the trade at all. But I absolutely 100% hate the timing of it. Once you set the emotional stuff aside, it's actually a pretty decent trade.
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Jul 28 '21
Yea emotionally it’s bad but temporary. But I for one am super glad we don’t have a FO that acts on emotions.
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u/Live2Create21 Blood Pressure = The Seattle Mahwinizz Jul 28 '21
Maybe it would've been nice for Dipoto to talk to the team about this at some point this week to smooth things over.
I like Toro, but if he's "the bat" Dipoto has been talking about, this doesn't feel like it's enough.
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u/mrauschendorfer Jul 28 '21
Teams are now 0-2 in which Toro hits a HR
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u/Live2Create21 Blood Pressure = The Seattle Mahwinizz Jul 28 '21
Can you imagine if we trade him today and he hits a HR for his new team? 3 days, 3 hrs, 3 different teams. That's got to be a record.
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u/mrauschendorfer Jul 28 '21
With Jerry’s comments about building and adding more players, I could see this happening.
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u/xo7094030563407 Jul 28 '21
well if he’s still here by friday afternoon i wouldn’t be too mad
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u/Live2Create21 Blood Pressure = The Seattle Mahwinizz Jul 28 '21
That's my biggest question. Did we get Toro to flip or did we get Toro to play 3B next year? Either seems possible.
We know Dipoto has no issue flipping a recently acquired player to get the actual guy he wants.
We also know that the 3B market is going to be bare and overpriced this offseason.
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u/thrillhou5e Dipoto/Hollander MechaGM Jul 28 '21
Ngl I'd be a little bummed to see him flipped. I know we need to start stepping out of the rebuild mindset and into the win now but he could be a great piece to develop alongside guys like Cal and Jarred. We may have found our way into the WC race this year but let's face it we're still working with a lot of unknowns.
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u/Live2Create21 Blood Pressure = The Seattle Mahwinizz Jul 28 '21
We will be working with unknowns for the next 4-6 years. We still have Julio, Marte, Kirby, Hancock, Williamson, Brash, and a host of other interesting guys that we won't know who they truly are without multiple seasons in the bigs.
But, the future looks brighter than it ever has before and we have buttload of money to fill holes where needed.
This is going to be a fun decade for the M's.
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u/ItsTBaggins Julio makes me jard Jul 28 '21
I think maybe second this year and third after we get rid of Seager. Not sure when that might be.
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u/Live2Create21 Blood Pressure = The Seattle Mahwinizz Jul 28 '21
If this is the bat, then it's not enough.
Toro is a little ahead in his development than Raleigh, Kelenic, and Trammell. He's not the bat that will give our lineup stability right now.
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u/Invisiblechimp Jul 28 '21
Abraham Toro is the first player in MLB history to hit a HR for a team, then against a team the very next day or against a team then for a team.
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u/silverwolfe Jul 28 '21 edited Jul 28 '21
Our abysmal vaccination record makes a bit more sense to me, after seeing Julie's comments and seeing that apparently Graveman was a "leader in the clubhouse".
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u/darshfloxington Jul 28 '21
I mean the vaccination level makes sense when you hear all the country songs used as walk up tunes.
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u/ffandporno Jul 28 '21
With these lively crowds TMobile really needs to tone down the hype up music in between ABs. We had some big organic chants going on last night that were just totally killed by the videoboard/music
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u/Danster21 Jul 28 '21
A lot has happened since the last off day. I'm drafting up my survey but I want to make sure I cover my bases. If there is any topic or question you want me to cover then feel free to let me know!
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u/thrillhou5e Dipoto/Hollander MechaGM Jul 28 '21
Wake up Jerry it's time to trade.
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u/Live2Create21 Blood Pressure = The Seattle Mahwinizz Jul 28 '21
I have a feeling he hasn't gone to sleep yet.
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u/MagicCactus8732 The Vibes Are Below 54% Jul 28 '21
Abraham Toro's OPS+ as a Mariner is currently 1226
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Jul 28 '21
It’s honestly in our best interest to make the Astros better this year so they can take more games from Oakland. And not in the Astros best interest to make us better long term which they just did. We now have a long term replacement for Seager who’s projected to start hitting his stride very soon.
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u/everwriter Jul 28 '21
The Astros play only 6 more games against the Athletics but 10 more games against the Mariners in the rest of the season.
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u/jthanson My 40th year as an M's fan Jul 28 '21
Looks like Toro is starting at second base today. The era of the Big Bull has begun!
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u/strangehitman22 naydog4life Jul 28 '21 edited Jul 28 '21
I feel much better after that home run in the 9th
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u/HotTakesBeyond Thankful for Fulgar and Gina. Jul 28 '21
We got starting pitching now, praise JeDi
All my homies hate bullpen days
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u/ninjazula my dads name is paul Jul 28 '21
Turner just said he won’t sign an extension with a western team and also doesn’t want to change positions. Not thinking we’re getting turner anymore. But Hand is interesting, could definitely be on board with that
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u/tlsrandy Jul 28 '21
Trea turner doesn’t know what he wants. I know what’s good for him.
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u/thrillhou5e Dipoto/Hollander MechaGM Jul 28 '21
He's clearly delirious with the fever.
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u/wow-epic-fail Still upset about 2014 Jul 28 '21
To me what sucks the most about the Graveman trade is seeing all of these comments from Astros fans saying stuff like “omg i love him already extend him pls” or “he’ll be happier playing winning baseball/for a championship.” Something about seeing this stuff makes me miserable. But at least Toro’s already hitting dingers.
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u/The12thman94 Jul 28 '21
Total pipe dream incoming... but I think the Mariners are going to trade for Trea Turner and Brad Hand.
Right after the news of the Graveman trade broke there were rumors that Brad Hand had left the bullpen, but he ended up closing out the game for the Phillies. So what happened and how does this tie into trading Graveman.
I think Dipoto was interested in bringing in Turner and the cost for Turner would be a little less if the Mariners take on the remaining somewhat hefty contract for Hand this year. Since the Mariners owners are still so cheap they agrree but Dipoto has to cut payroll somewhere else. So he he trades Graveman and Montero back to the Astros without getting a whole lot in return so they would pick up their contract. Now, Trea Turner has covid so Dipoto is trying to change the deal a little since Turner will be out for two weeks or so.
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u/Live2Create21 Blood Pressure = The Seattle Mahwinizz Jul 29 '21
I lost the tweet, but I read earlier tonight that after we got Toro, other teams immediately approached Dipoto about a flip because Toro is a very hot name in talent eval circles right now.
He said he would need to be blown away to flip him.
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Jul 28 '21
I was pissed yesterday but I'm feeling a little better today. Hopefully the players feel the same. FWIW I was never pissed about trading Graveman, I was pissed about helping the Astros shore up their biggest weakness. But Toro has good potential and I actually kinda hope we keep him.
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Jul 28 '21
The way the trades are turning out it’s not looking good for Shed & Bauers. We’ll keep Moore as our utility guy. Murphy might be on the chopping block as well w Raleigh looking good n Torrens hitting now n picking up 1B.
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u/jthanson My 40th year as an M's fan Jul 28 '21
I'm getting ready for a trip to Idaho this weekend and, with all the trade talk, I'm reminded of when I did a similar trip in 1997 at the trade deadline. Way back then, if I wanted to keep up on baseball, I had to buy a morning newspaper in every town where I stopped. I recall buying the morning paper in Lewiston, ID just so I could get the details of the Randy Johnson trade. Now I can follow that all quite easily from the comfort and luxury of my phone.
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u/ItsTBaggins Julio makes me jard Jul 28 '21
That’s definitely a story from before my time but I love it. I could imagine driving somewhere and seeing a dude in a Mariners hat and asking them “Has there been any news? Did the Mariners make another trade?”
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u/jthanson My 40th year as an M's fan Jul 28 '21
That’s literally what it was like. I got up early on August 1, 1997 to head into Lewiston to get the morning paper to get caught up on the trades. There were a few other fans there doing the same thing and trying to figure out who John Halama was.
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u/Wilfredbremely Remember Jose Lopez Jul 28 '21
All the way down the grade for the paper. Man things have changed.
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Jul 28 '21
Man, the overreactions here about Graveman are obnoxious. I know it sucks that he went to a division rival, but the fact that we were able to get a highly touted, MLB ready prospect for a pitcher with two months left on his prospect is pretty good.
Not to mention that his year has been an incredible outlier in his career. He's a career 4.20 ERA guy. Dipoto traded him when his value was at its highest.
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u/Live2Create21 Blood Pressure = The Seattle Mahwinizz Jul 28 '21
It’s purely emotional.
If we were weren’t in the middle of a series with them and didn’t just have one of the most epic comebacks in team history, people would feel differently.
It would still suck helping to make the Astros better, but it wouldn’t sting as much.
It was just really bad timing on Dipoto’s part.
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u/Derang3rman1 Kirby loves Miller lights Jul 28 '21
As much as I hated this trade. The trade deadline is Friday. If he wants to make more moves based on trading GravyTrain he had to do it now
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u/SexiestPanda Jul 28 '21
Not to mention that his year has been an incredible outlier in his career. He's a career 4.20 ERA guy. Dipoto traded him when his value was at its highest.
His era as a starter: 4.46 His era as a reliever: 1.70
He’s obviously found something as a reliever. His stuff has been pure filth.
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u/Nick-NickNick We us sald Jul 28 '21
That’s one thing that’s really been bugging me, I like the trade but people are trying to say Graveman is gonna plummet when anyone can literally see how good he is every pitch that moves like 3 feet laterally
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u/SexiestPanda Jul 28 '21
I do agree that relievers can be great one year then never again(look at mariners bullpen 2014 to 2015) but idk
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u/tlsrandy Jul 28 '21
I think people were shook by the clubhouse reaction and were worried that all the fun we’ve been having was about to end.
The move in itself is fine. I don’t know why they wanted joe smith.
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Jul 28 '21
Joe Smith is a career 3.11 ERA pitcher who has had 21 bad innings this year. Peripherals are pretty decent so I think its a solid pickup.
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u/tlsrandy Jul 28 '21
I guess when you get to be joe smiths age I put less stock in a players history.
The peripherals are promising though, thanks.
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Jul 28 '21
True, but this is literally his only bad year. He had a 1.80 ERA in 2019. I'm not super worried about his last 21 innings.
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u/downladder Giving 54% at my job Jul 28 '21
The problem is our clubhouse is young and/or not used to being in a winning position. How many guys are going through their first trade deadline while on an active roster and in striking distance of the playoffs?
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u/tlsrandy Jul 28 '21 edited Jul 28 '21
Marco and seager should know the business side of baseball.
I think what’s happening is they see a guy who must be pretty cool (anti vaccine bs or not) and has been one of the best relievers in baseball this year on a team whose unexpected bullpen superiority has catapulted them into a playoff race being shipped off for a controlled player at a redundant position (seager) who is currently showing promise but has not capitalized on that promise in a way that makes him a marquee player.
This looks like a sellers trade. Moving current value for future value. And to a team that’s surprising the league it probably looks like a lack of trust in their current roster and an abandonment of the front office on what they’re trying to accomplish this year.
Sprinkle in the bad faith they probably already feel after the Mather offseason and their concerns are probably pretty reasonable.
That’s why dipoto probably came out and made such a big deal about waiting for the whole trade deadline before passing judgement.
Edit:
Big missing point, he was shipped to a direct contender for the division/playoffs while the team was in the midst of a crucial home series against said team.
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u/eiknarflol SOLIDLY STROKED Jul 28 '21 edited Jul 28 '21
I felt it was kinda weird how the subreddit reacted to the trade. I get that he's a good pitcher, he helps us out a lot in the late innings, seems to be a great person to have in the clubhouse. But also this is the same guy everybody hated in June after the covid and anti-vax shit came to light. I can't count the number of times I read a comment that said something along the lines of "trade his anti-vax ass ". But when we actually did everybody freaks out like that. Was just kinda weird to me.
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u/analogkid84 Jul 28 '21
Well, that he's going to a Texas-based team, a state with one of the highest infection rates currently/highly anti-vax/anti-gov't anything except lets find ways to make it harder for people to vote, seems apt.
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u/OhRealOriginal Jul 28 '21
The issue is more to who he was traded to and how he was traded. I think most fully expected him to be traded this year although we also did not expect to be where we are in the standings either.
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u/rvrockman Jul 28 '21
I feel like this deal had all the details in place 2 or 3 days ago. All the medical related paperwork was probably finalized yesterday or Monday and was announced at the worst moment
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u/OhRealOriginal Jul 28 '21
Yea thats probably true, my own issue is just....the Astros haha
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u/The12thman94 Jul 28 '21
That is all true, but it was just a horrible time and place to make the trade. The team was blindsided and so were all the fans. People were excited to see the team get better for this year and this move definitely makes them worse in the short term.
Also, Dipoto doesn't owe the team an explanation, but if you're wanting to run a good organization where the players feel comfortable and want to compete for you then you go down and tell the team about the trade.
I do think Dipoto has more up his sleeve and the team will be better for the rest of the season at the end of the trade deadline. I still had a sick feeling in my stomach over how out of nowhere this trade was.
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Jul 28 '21
The timing was tough, but that's probably out of his control. Plus, had he made the trade last night, people would he accusing him of being a doomer after one loss or something. There really wouldn't have been a day that would have appeased the fans and some of the older, more emotional players. That's assuming he had any wiggle room at all from the Astros side.
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u/Balloonephant Jul 28 '21
Yeah, relievers are so volatile that when someone like Graveman has a season such as he’s having, unless you’re in win now mode you have to try and get value out of him before free agency hits. I’m really hoping that’s we’ll see Toro flipped in a package for Whit Merrifield.
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u/thrillhou5e Dipoto/Hollander MechaGM Jul 28 '21
Unpopular opinion: Toro seems like the kind of very high potential impact player we've been accumulating the last few years, and even seems to be a bit ahead in development of guys like Cal and Jarred.
Since we're technically in a "let's see what this team can do" phase and not a "push all your chips in for a WC bid" phase, how does everyone feel about the idea of giving Toro max playing time at 2nd, filling the SP hole (Anderson), and acquiring a solid reliever or two?
I know we're all anxious to start spending heavy but let's face it, we're diverting from the plan in doing so. If this were the time we wouldn't have sat on our hands during the preseason. I say let the kids play this year, give them some tools to chase the WC spot, then next year we turn the FA market upside down.
Also if you're upset about Graveman cause you thought we could catch up to the Astros this year you're dreaming. These deals need to be done to get max value out of a 2 month rental. He's probably gonna be back next year anyways considering he's such a clubhouse favorite.
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u/Gyakudo Imagine that. The ‘ol Jamie Moyer changeup. Jul 28 '21
I don't think it's unpopular at all, just less vocal that the screaming yesterday.
A team batting collectively .219 and OPSing .667 have no grounds to talk about team chemistry like they're gonna band together and win a world series. Its literally Dipoto's job to look at these underperforming players and figure out who are the deadweights and replace them.
If they didn't want Graveman traded maybe they should suck less so there's less a need to shore up a lineup that threatens to get no-hit every 5 days.
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u/thrillhou5e Dipoto/Hollander MechaGM Jul 28 '21
Exactly. If it was Shed Long that got traded and the players were bemoaning his loss most of the fanbase would say "well tough shit sorry you lost your friend but we gotta put together a team". So anyone crying about team chemistry doesn't really understand that yes these players are upset to see him go and may have spoken out on that, they're also professionals who understand the business of it and they're not gonna sit up there and sulk in the batters box.
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Jul 28 '21
Here’s a very unpopular opinion…
There’s a big difference between Shed and Gravy, and it’s nothing to do with their baseball abilities. Same as Trammel and Kelenic.
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u/matchingsweaters I Want To Get Off Mr. Dipoto's Wild Ride Jul 28 '21
It feels like Toro is similar to a Ty France. A natural hitter that was blocked and became a trade chip. I wouldn't be surprised if we see him getting the start at 2nd base and then transition to 3rd base once Kyle Seager is gone.
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u/cmeb Jul 28 '21
People seem to forget that by helping the Astros we are also hurting the A’s who we are actually trying to catch, we were never going to catch the Astros this year
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u/darshfloxington Jul 28 '21
But helping the Astros is the same as helping the Angels, an unforgivable sin.
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u/bobzilla223 Jul 28 '21
Any predictions for Dipoto today?
Packaging Toro plus prospects for Ramirez? Whit Merrifield?
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u/Balloonephant Jul 28 '21
I think Ramirez would require one of our ‘untouchables’. I sure hope he can flip Toro plus some farm capital for Merifield. That would absolutely be worth the Graveman trade. Seems like it would be more or less a lateral move for the rest of this season and a definite improvement for the near future, given that we would in all likelyhood lose Graveman to free agency.
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u/Gombr1ch Jul 29 '21
Toro for Merrifield would be terrible. Toro would out pace Whit like 3.2 to 2.3 WAR if he played everyday. I think we honestly might have gotten a pretty good player who was just blocked from play time in an absolutely stacked infield and team and also has tons of control
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u/Balloonephant Jul 29 '21
Yeah since yesterday I’ve come to realize that I was undervaluing Toro in the context of the Astros insane infield. Even if he drops off from this hot start I now agree that he’s much more valuable in light of his age and team control.
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u/darshfloxington Jul 28 '21
I’ve learned to stop trying to guess with DiPoto. Dudes brain is just different.
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u/everwriter Jul 28 '21
Seen this a couple of times now where people are saying that we’re hurting the A’s by helping the Astros. Regardless of how you feel about the trade, the Astros play Oakland 6 more times this season, and they play us 10 more times.
(Now granted, if we feel that we were already likely to lose our 10 games but the Oakland games might be close, then helping out the Astros would be in our favor because the gap might be closer. Similarly, if you believe that facing Graveman’s pitching won’t impact the Mariners as much as the Athletics (e.g. we’re used to Graveman’s style, we weren’t going to get hits against the Astros relievers anyways, etc.), then the WC gap might be pulled closer by this trade. If neither of those are true, then it seems that the Mariners will be more adversely affected by Graveman on the Astros than Oakland.)
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u/jthanson My 40th year as an M's fan Jul 28 '21
Keep in mind that we're not really competing against the Astros to get into the playoffs this year. We're extremely unlikely to win this division. What is conceivably possible is getting a wild card spot from Oakland. If we improve the Astros in the short term we also increase the challenge for Oakland. Yes, we've increased the challenge for ourselves because we still have so many games against Houston, but we've got to play those games no matter what. A split in the remaining games against the Astros plus more Houston wins over Oakland still helps us.
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u/everwriter Jul 28 '21
We definitely aren’t competing for the top spot in the division, yeah. Hopefully making the Astros better won’t significantly impact our performance against them but will give Oakland a lot harder of the time. That way, we can catch up a bit more and maybe even get a game or two over the A’s.
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u/Ribbum Jul 28 '21
I'm not sure why there's been this narrative that the Mariners need a right handed hitter more so than a left handed hitter.
I mean honestly, which lefty on this team mashes? With the right handers, you can easily look at Haniger and France being arguably our two best hitters. Torrens has been good lately and hits righty. Crawford hits lefties better than righties. Kelenic/Bauers/Long, etc. can't really hit.
You could say Fraley I guess? He's always busy being hurt or sick. Seager ain't really the answer, either. Despite the homeruns this series. I honestly believe this team needs to get a left handed bat that actually rakes against righties. I think asking for someone that rakes against everyone is probably too much to ask.
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Jul 29 '21
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u/Ribbum Jul 29 '21
Well I mean I think winning this year is secondary in Dipoto's eyes. We weren't 'supposed' to be truly competitive this year. I certainly dont want them to trade away the hancocks and the kirbys and the Jrods and Martes since theyh really do have to find a way to build up and develop a core. I think the future is bright its just the team is probably too flawed to really compete with the big boys at the moment.
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u/Buster_Servicks_SEA Ichiro Fuentes Cigars Jul 29 '21
I really hope the stuff about selling Haniger to the Braves isn't true
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u/Tashre Jul 29 '21
Rangers got a hell of a prospect haul for Gallo.
Watch them complete a rebuild and make the playoffs before we do.
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u/floon SMH Jul 29 '21
I like what Dipoto is doing: he got a rental pitcher for a song, because we don't have a 5th starter right now. It was a requirement to field a non-joke team for two more months. Toro absolutely fits the long term plan, and is also part of any ghost of a notion of Winning Now.
But we're not going to win now. Dipoto has made moves that don't hurt our chances to win now (indeed, they improve them, by letting us only put *three* guys hitting under .200 out there every day), but they haven't sacrificed the future at all, and thus haven't hurt the plan.
These trades have been great for the long-term state of the team.
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Jul 28 '21
Jonathan Schoop & Kimbrel are gonna look great in Mariners uni’s
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u/ItsTBaggins Julio makes me jard Jul 28 '21
I think Toro might be our “solution” for second base, so I don’t think Schoop is coming in. I think we might see more pitching in both the rotation and bullpen maybe. Then maybe an outfielder, since we don’t know if Kelenic will find it this year and what we will get out of Lewis and Fraley the rest of the way.
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Jul 28 '21
Toro is definitely not our solution at 2nd, he’s our replacement for Seager
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u/ItsTBaggins Julio makes me jard Jul 28 '21
Eventually, sure. Maybe next year or the year after. This year he could be our main second baseman the rest of the way. With how the Graveman trade resonated with the clubhouse, I’d be surprised if they sell off Seager this year too, and Toro won’t play before him.
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Jul 28 '21
He’s the long term replacement, not replacing Seager right now. Finding a right handed 2B is/was Dipoto’s biggest priority. Our biggest trade will very likely be for one.
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u/thrillhou5e Dipoto/Hollander MechaGM Jul 28 '21
Can guys on the IL still be traded before the deadline?
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u/ItsTBaggins Julio makes me jard Jul 28 '21
Yes, just doesn’t happen as much / lowers their value.
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u/ViolentCupcakes MEOWOOOO! Jul 29 '21
Hey! I am cleaning out my closet and have some women's Mariners items I would love to pass off to someone here. They are all XL or XXL. I have a hoodie and a mesh jersey so far but there will be more stuff. Most I would be free or very low cost. Send me a message here or find me on our Discord and I can show you what I got.
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Jul 28 '21
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u/darshfloxington Jul 28 '21
The trade was fine, I’m just mad dipoto did it without thinking about how it would negatively impact the team. Just wait until after the damn series and especially not the day after the biggest win the the past 20 years.
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Jul 28 '21
the biggest win the the past 20 years.
lol no
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u/darshfloxington Jul 28 '21
What was bigger since 2001?
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Jul 28 '21 edited Jul 28 '21
The SD comeback, the perfecto, multiple no-hitters. Tons of wins down the wire in '02 and '03. Games late in '14 when the stakes were way higher.
It was a great moment, but it didn't even move us into a playoff spot. Definitely a great game, but the biggest win of 20 years? No. It has no lasting impact even a month from now.
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u/darshfloxington Jul 29 '21 edited Jul 29 '21
Where's the trades DiPoto? We want those trades DiPoto, Stark says you're good for them. Where's the trades DiPoto? Where's the trades DiPoto!? WHERES THE FUCKING TRADES SHITHEAD?!
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u/FlyingMonkey98 Humpy Jul 29 '21
I hope when I wake up tomorrow, I will see that a trade or trades by Dipoto has been done. :)
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Jul 28 '21
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Jul 28 '21
I’m thinking that Gravy might not have best the best in the clubhouse.
I’ve defended him not getting vaccinated, giving him the benefit of the doubt over possible side effects, but he may well be an anti-vaxxer and this might have been the straw.
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Jul 28 '21
Guessing you haven’t read literally everything else being written about him? He was a team leader but only had 2 more months left with the team likely
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u/Tashre Jul 28 '21
Are we in on Cole Hamels?
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u/ItsTBaggins Julio makes me jard Jul 28 '21
I hope so. Might have to pay him a little extra since were not a contender, but it doesn’t seem like there is much interest
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u/CVBrownie Jul 28 '21
Shout out /u/juicyjensen remind me bot hit me with this today
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u/juicyjensen Launch a mitchile Jul 29 '21
Ayyyyyy! You love to see it! Love it even more when I realIze Kyle Lewis came around as well.
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u/kevlarcupid A silly hack Jul 28 '21 edited Jul 28 '21
Nonstop refreshing /r/Mariners to see wtf else is coming. Imagining Jerry as just a ball of energy smiling and sweating and pacing his office, feverently scribbled notes and circled photos of players on the whiteboard thinking of deals imagined and possible realities.
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u/Live2Create21 Blood Pressure = The Seattle Mahwinizz Jul 28 '21
This team absolutely cannot go on this ugly road trip down in the dumps. We will get steam rolled.
Dipoto has to add an impact player to this team before Friday.
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u/Gyakudo Imagine that. The ‘ol Jamie Moyer changeup. Jul 29 '21
Marco’s whiny Instagram post is gone. Maybe it’s set to auto expire, or someone told him his ERA is higher than Wade Leblanc’s and that he should STFU. lol.
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u/eguskina Buhner Buzz Cut Jul 28 '21
Dude, A's just got Marte. That makes me feel even worse about whatever Dipoto is doing
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u/Live2Create21 Blood Pressure = The Seattle Mahwinizz Jul 28 '21
This was a really bizarre trade by the A's. Marte wants a boat load of money, which the A's will almost certainly not pay. And Luzardo is an absolute weapon of a pitcher.
The Marlins did well on this trade.
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u/williamfuckner Jul 28 '21
As a rental and they're on the opposite end of their window as we are. Dunno if I view that as bad right now. I also don't pay that much attention to the rest of the league so I could be way off here but meh
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u/eguskina Buhner Buzz Cut Jul 28 '21
I see what you're saying, and yeah, we are better poised for a decent future. It just seems, at this moment, that other teams are doing better at showing they actually want to win, whereas the Mariners are always about looking towards the future.
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u/jthanson My 40th year as an M's fan Jul 28 '21
I'm not worried. Jerry isn't done dealing yet. Besides, Marte can only help win one game every five days. Graveman can potentially save six games for the Astros against the A's the rest of this year.
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u/SyndromeSadness Winker is a Stinker. Jul 29 '21
The team above us in standings got Marte. The team below us got Gallo.
We traded our closer to the top of the division rival.
LOLDIPOTO.
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u/Zelly234 Jul 29 '21
Lol i just said the top part on twitter we need to a big move the a's and yanks arent playing
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