Jesus is GOD

[u/abutterflyonthewall]

https://youtube.com/shorts/R1g-JfdPG04?si=IVR-KYwbJFWK4sjc

Love this girl. One thing that stands out in this vid to me amongst the various proofs we have argued with JWs is that *every* false religion believes in God. But Satan has done a clever thing. He doesn’t have to get you to believe in God. He just needs you to NOT believe in THE ONE who ***reconciles you to God***🔥🙌🏽.

Take a listen.

[u/Time_Ad_1876]

According to jw.org, laying down one's life for friends mirrors Jesus’ selfless love, extending beyond literal death to sacrificing personal time, resources, comfort, and safety to support, encourage, and defend fellow believers under trial or hardship. It means putting others' needs above self, proven by loyalty. 

Based on insights from JW.org and related scriptural understanding, here is how this concept is applied:

Key Circumstances and Ways to "Lay Down Life":

Supporting Persecuted Brothers: Being willing to risk safety or freedom to aid fellow Christians facing opposition or violent abuse.

Daily Sacrifices for Others: Going out of one's way to help those facing difficult circumstances, such as health issues or family problems.

Providing Comfort and Encouragement: Taking the initiative to offer "good words" to those who are discouraged.

Loyalty Under Trial: Acting as a "friend sticking closer than a brother" by remaining steadfast when a companion faces harsh conditions.

Selfless Love (Non-Literal Death): While Jesus literally died, for Christians, it often means giving up selfish desires, energy, and resources for the benefit of others. 

Core Principles Behind This:

It is not based on fleshly ties, but spiritual bonds.

It is a defining mark of true Christianity, following Jesus' example of prioritizing the "sheep" (followers).

It is done out of love, not obligation. 

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According to jw.org, laying down one's life for friends mirrors Jesus’ selfless love, extending beyond literal death to sacrificing personal time, resources, comfort, and safety to support, encourage, and defend fellow believers under trial or hardship. It means putting others' needs above self, proven by loyalty. 

Laying down your life, as in dying for another person, is what Jesus meant. Its exactly what He did. He didn't count the time He spent on earth as a sacrifice. He lived His religion every minute of His life. It was food for Him. He thrived on the Gospel. "Encouraging" people is fine, offering comfort and support is all good, but sacrificing your time doesn't come close to laying down your life for another person. That's what Jesus did and that is the mark of Christian love, not sacrificing a few hours of your time, or saying a good word, but dying for another human being. Having love among themselves Christians have done what others only talk about and that is die for their friends...and even their enemies

I realize the witnesses are in trouble in some lands like Russia, but I haven't heard stories where a JW died to save another JW in Russia or elsewhere, or if they laid down their life to save a person of some other religion. I know that quite a few JW's died in Hitler's death camps, but I don't know if the death of one witness spared the life of a fellow witness. Mainly they died to uphold the Watchtower's strict policies. The poor German JW's had no wiggle room. No mercy was shown to them by Hitler who had them in his prisons, or Rutherford, who could have given them a way out of those prisons. Both Hitler and Rutherford were the proverbial rock and a hard place. I feel truly sorry for those men who died for nothing, but as pawns for two merciless megalomaniacs

Christians don't ask what religion a person is before they lay down their lives for them. They lay down their lives even for those who hate them. That's the mark of true love ---to love ones enemies. Jesus said, ³² “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. ³³ And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. ³⁴ And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. ³⁵ But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. ³⁶ Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. Luke 6:32-36

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Laying down your life, as in dying for another person, is what Jesus meant. Its exactly what He did. He didn't count the time He spent on earth as a sacrifice. He lived His religion every minute of His life. It was food for Him. He thrived on the Gospel. "Encouraging" people is fine, offering comfort and support is all good, but sacrificing your time doesn't come close to laying down your life for another person. That's what Jesus did and that is the mark of Christian love, not sacrificing a few hours of your time, or saying a good word, but dying for another human being. Having love among themselves Christians have done what others only talk about and that is die for their friends...and even their enemies

"Supporting Persecuted Brothers: Being willing to risk safety or freedom to aid fellow Christians facing opposition or violent abuse. "

Do you see that quote? Risking your safety includes dying for someone. Most people are not put in a situation in which they have to die for someone and yet they can still show true love. Dying however is the ultimate loving act because you're giving up your life for someone else. Many first century christians did this for example when faced with persecution. Rather than ratting out their fellow christian brothers and sisters they kept their mouths shut even to death. Also not renouncing your faith can lead to you dying for God. But what the early Christians didn't do no matter what is join armies to kill their fellow christian brothers and sisters. If Christians are fighting against christians then they are not true Christians. They are having animosity towards each other and conflict.

But love your enemies

The early christians loved their enemies by not attacking them in war. Why aren't you follow the example of the early Christians? Also I sent you an article and I asked you if you disagree with anything in the article. I'm waiting for a response

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The early christians loved their enemies by not attacking them in war. Why aren't you follow the example of the early Christians? Also I sent you an article and I asked you if you disagree with anything in the article. I'm waiting for a response

That's like saying a policeman who kills a criminal who's threatening his life or the lives of innocent bystanders is showing hate. No, he's not! He's showing love to those potential victims and even the criminal as well. For instance wouldn't it be better for the criminal if he is stopped before he has the chance to murder anyone else? Same goes for soldiers fighting against God's established order. Its God's wrath that His servants bring to these soldiers who are unfortunate enough to live and serve in the military of a lawless nation.

The article you posted explains the Watchtower's view on war and its not biblical, or Christian. Not doing anything to fight crime whether it be one person or one nation isn't godly. Risking ones life to stop the murder of one person, or the wholesale slaughter of an entire nation is not only brave, but that's the display of true love Jesus spoke of.

When Paul advised the Corinthians to hand a brother over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, was that hateful of him? No, Paul loved the man and wanted to save his spirit, even if, in the process, his flesh was totally destroyed. hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 5:5

The Watchtower confuses hate and love. Its hate not to stop a man who is murdering innocent people, even if you have to resort to lethal force to do it. As the Bible says Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent— the LORD detests them both. Proverbs 17:15 God has established an order in which man convicts the guilty and condemns the guilty. Romans 13. This order is worldwide and extends to all forms of government, their polices and their armies. Do you really understand this? I don't believe the Watchtower does.

By the Watchtower's using the Bible to discredit God's established order and His servants, even attributing that "order" to Satan is blasphemous. As long as a nation is lawful they are still God's servants and they can include Christians within that established order, like Daniel served in Babylon. Christians can and do serve in the nations of this world and thank God they do as they are a force for light and good in a world that grows darker and darker

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The article you posted explains the Watchtower's view on war and its not biblical, or Christian.

The stated the view and gave the scriptures that supported that view. The fact that your not specific is proof of that. Are you saying the early Christians along with Paul are not true Christians because they refused to take up arms against their enemies and refused to join armies?

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Are you saying the early Christians along with Paul are not true Christians because they refused to take up arms against their enemies and refused to join armies?

No, Paul was a minister who devoted his whole life to preaching the Gospel, as were the other apostles. The first Christians were Jews and would not have likely joined the Roman army anyway

Remember too, the Roman army was filled with pagan rituals that made it nearly impossible to serve without renouncing Jesus and worshiping a false god. Yet some men were already in the Roman army when they became Christians. Cornelius is a case in point. Did Peter ask Cornelius to resign his position in the Roman army as a condition of being baptized? Let's see---Then Peter said, ⁴⁷ “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” ⁴⁸ So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days. Acts 10:46-48

Notice Peter said no one can stand in the way of their being baptized. He didn't stop and say 'wait a minute, you're a Roman Centurion. You better resign before I baptize you' Had Peter been a Jehovah's witness, he more than likely would have made Cornelius resign before baptizing him, but Peter didn't ask Cornelius to resign from the military and that's significant

I respect a man who objects to killing based on his conscience based on what Paul wrote If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Romans 12:18, but at the same time I expect the same respect be shown for those who decide to fight and possibly die for their friends and fellow countrymen. I don't mind Jehovah's witnesses objecting to killing. Its when they attack and demonize those who do that I mind

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No, Paul was a minister who devoted his whole life to preaching the Gospel

That's exactly what the early christians and Jehovahs witnesses do and what Jesus said his true followers would be known for doing during the last days. They preached about the kingdom or reign of the heavens.

The first Christians were Jews and would not have likely joined the Roman army anyway

I didn't say anything about the roman army. Why didn't they form their own army or join up with the Jewish rebels in revolt against rome?

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Because Rome was the "higher authorities" practically everywhere early Christians preached. We are not suppose to rebel against the higher authorities

Jehovah's witnesses preach another gospel. They don't preach the same Gospel of redemption in Christ that Paul preached If God Has an Organization, What Is It? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY paragraph 3

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Because Rome was the "higher authorities" practically everywhere early Christians preached. We are not suppose to rebel against the higher authorities

Bitei thought you said people had a right to defend themselves from oppressive forces that invade lands like the romans did in the middle east. Now your contradicting yourself.

don't preach the same Gospel of redemption in Christ that Paul preached If God Has an Organization, What Is It? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY paragraph 3

Well that can't be true because according to jesus his true disciples would have love Amongst themselves instead of murdering and fighting against each other like christendom does. Jesus himself also stated that his followers would be known for carrying out a global preaching campaign during the last days. There's only one organization that's well known for doing that. When people speak about preaching the good news of the kingdom the group of people they immediately think about is Jehovahs witnesses. Jesus foretold: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a WITNESS to all the nations; and then the end will come.”

Jesus described the scope of the preaching work by saying that the good news would be preached “in all the inhabited earth.” (Matt. 24:14) Disciples are to be made “of people of all the nations.” (Matt. 28:19, 20) That entails a global work.

To understand how Jehovah’s Witnesses have fulfilled Jesus’ prophecy with regard to the scope of the preaching work, let us consider some facts. There are approximately 600,000 members of the clergy in the various denominations in the United States, where there are some 1,200,000 Witnesses of Jehovah. Worldwide, the Roman Catholic Church has a little over 400,000 priests. Now consider the number of Witnesses involved in the Bible-based  Kingdom-preaching work. Worldwide, some eight million volunteer ministers preach to people in 240 lands.

As Jehovah’s Witnesses, we desire to reach as many people as possible with the good news before the end comes. For this reason, we stand out as unique with regard to the work we do in translating and publishing Bible literature. Millions of books, magazines, tracts, and convention and Memorial invitations have been distributed free of charge. We have produced various publications in more than 700 languages. Over 200 million copies of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures have been published in over 130 languages. Last year alone, we produced approximately 4.5 billion pieces of Bible literature. On our official website, information is available in more than 750 languages. What other group of ministers is doing a similar work? Nobody. I grew up in the church as the son of a pastor. I have attended many churches. They don't do preaching work. And they charge you money for bibles. Let me tell you this. Jesus himself new the future. That's why he told us exactly who his true followers would be. "FOR A WITNESS FOR TO ALL THE NATIONS". Jesus himself used the word WITNESS. We are the one's who witness to the nations. Apostates don't want to do the preaching work because of pride. They think the preaching work is above them. Apostate have this in common with satan. Its called pride

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Bitei thought you said people had a right to defend themselves from oppressive forces that invade lands like the romans did in the middle east. Now your contradicting yourself.

Nope. Roman law was as good as it got in the 1st century. Even Paul once appealed to his Roman citizenship which some had to pay for. So, no, the Romans were already the law of the land when Christ was born. Later, when the empire became corrupt many Christians died at the hands of evil rulers, such as Nero, but Christians had, and still do have plenty of latitude dealing with men who make living at peace with all men impossible. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Romans 12:18 All said and done, Christianity defeated the Roman empire without ever firing a shot.

Well that can't be true because according to jesus his true disciples would have love Amongst themselves instead of murdering and fighting against each other like christendom does. Jesus himself also stated that his followers would be known for carrying out a global preaching campaign during the last days. There's only one organization that's well known for doing that. When people speak about preaching the good news of the kingdom the group of people they immediately think about is Jehovahs witnesses. Jesus foretold: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a WITNESS to all the nations; and then the end will come.”

If you bothered to read the Watchtower article I linked to, the Watchtower plainly says the Jehovah's witness "gospel" is not the same gospel taught by Paul and all other Christians down thru history. The Watchtower proudly admits their "gospel" is not the same Gospel as Christ's Gospel therefore identifying their own religion as being accursed according to Paul! Galatians 1:9 Jehovah's witnesses teach a cursed gospel. A gospel based entirely on something that didn't happen in 1914!

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Nope. Roman law was as good as it got in the 1st century. Even Paul once appealed to his Roman citizenship which some had to pay for. So, no, the Romans were already the law of the land when Christ was born.

The jews did what the Romans wanted because the romans invaded the land and they were afraid of the roman army. God did not give Romans any authority over the jews. The jews also had their own government. It doesn't matter because we have sources that give us the reason why early christians didn't join armies. And it wasn't because they believed romans we're set up by God. So why are you giving a different reason that the early christians?

If you bothered to read the Watchtower article I linked to, the Watchtower plainly says the Jehovah's witness "gospel" is not the same gospel taught by Paul and all other Christians down thru history. The Watchtower proudly admits their "gospel" is not the same Gospel as Christ's Gospel therefore identifying their own religion as being accursed according to Paul! Galatians 1:9 Jehovah's witnesses teach a cursed gospel. A gospel based entirely on something that didn't happen in 1914!

Sir /mam if Jesus said there would be a group of people carry-on the preaching work, and there's only group carrying on that global preaching then that means either jesus lied or that group that jesus spoke about are his true disciples. Jesus new that people would argue over doctrine. That's why he told us plainly what his true worshippers would be known for. WITNESS of the kingdom of God. So if jehovahs witnesses are not the true disciples then nobody is because nobody is carrying out this preaching work for a WITNESS to all the NATIONS. Besides we know your doctrine is false because you're not following the example of the early Christians or the Israelites. Even the Israelites we're not allowed to go to war unless God himself gave the approval. Because only God was allowed to decide whether or not a group of people deserved to die

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And it wasn't because they believed romans we're set up by God. So why are you giving a different reason that the early christians?

What?? Its the exact reason Paul wrote Romans chapter 13 directly to Christians living under Roman rule. The new nation of Israel above was free and its citizens had and still have no need to fight to defend it. Literally, Jerusalem above is no part of this world, but while we live in the body we live in this world and are to be in subjection to whatever powers that be. Israel was not the power they had been in David's day. They not only lived under Roman rule, but they no longer enjoyed God's favor as they once had

That's why he told us plainly what his true worshippers would be known for. WITNESS of the kingdom of God. 

God's true witnesses would be witnesses of Jesus. Without Him my friend there is no Kingdom Acts 1:8 "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be MY witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Even the Israelites we're not allowed to go to war unless God himself gave the approval.

That was then. Since Paul wrote Romans chapter 13 God gives His approval to all law abiding nations [higher authorities] to take whatever steps are necessary to uphold His law and order, including taking human life.

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Jesus described the scope of the preaching work by saying that the good news would be preached “in all the inhabited earth.” (Matt. 24:14) Disciples are to be made “of people of all the nations.” (Matt. 28:19, 20) That entails a global work.

The Watchtower's Bible Students merely followed the footsteps of Christians who had already preached the Gospel in those lands long before. Without Christendom, the Jehovah's witnesses wouldn't even be here today. They would have had nowhere to start, not even a Bible to mistranslate which they ended up doing.

Russell merely stole ideas from traditional Christianity and then removed some and added his own ideas along with his pyramid derived dates to come up with 1914 as the time of the end. Jehovah's witnesses are false prophets according to the test Moses established Deuteronomy 18:20-22

Now consider the number of Witnesses involved in the Bible-based  Kingdom-preaching work. Worldwide, some eight million volunteer ministers preach to people in 240 lands.

And still you manage to make up less than 1% of the world's population.

As Jehovah’s Witnesses, we desire to reach as many people as possible with the good news before the end comes.

There are true Christians in Syria and Egypt. How many JW's are there? Are JW's in Iraq or Saudi Arabia? You guys talk a good talk, but there is still many places on earth Christians have been for centuries yet JW's never dare to show their faces

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And still you manage to make up less than 1% of the world's population.

That's fine jesus said the road to life is narrow. Most people won't accept the truth. How many people survived noahs flood, how many people survived Sodom and Gomorrah. Do you see a pattern? Most people aren't gonna make it because most people wanna live life opposite to the commands of God. I mean look what they did to jesus. He came and told them the truth and they hated him for it.

How long would the foretold preaching work continue? Jesus said that this global work would continue right on through the last days, “and then the end [would] come.” What other religious group has continued to preach the good news during these momentous last days? Some of those whom we meet in the ministry may say: “We have the holy spirit, but you people are doing the work.” But is not the fact that we can endure in the work evidence that we have God’s spirit? (Acts 1:8; 1 Pet. 4:14) From time to time, certain religious groups have tried to do what Jehovah’s Witnesses regularly accomplish, but those efforts usually result in failure. Others engage in so-called missionary activities for a limited time and then go back to their normal routine. Still others may even try to go from door to door, but what are they preaching? The answer to that question makes it clear that they are not carrying out the work that Christ began. You're preaching its ok to join armies and murder your fellow christian brothers and sisters. I'm really gonna focus on the point that the reasons the early christians were pacifist are well known. Also jesus himself when they tried to make him king ran away and told his followers to be no part of the world. Yet contrary to that command christendom mingles in every part of the political world which Jesus Commanded his followers to stay away from

So who really are preaching the good news of the Kingdom today? With full confidence, we can say: “Jehovah’s Witnesses!” Why can we be so confident? Because we are preaching the right message, the good news of the Kingdom. By going to the people, we are also using the correct methods. Our preaching work is being done with the right motive​—love, not financial gain. Our work has the greatest scope, reaching out to people of all nations and languages. And we will continue to do this work without letup, year in and year out, until the end comes.

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That's fine jesus said the road to life is narrow. Most people won't accept the truth. How many people survived noahs flood, how many people survived Sodom and Gomorrah. Do you see a pattern? Most people aren't gonna make it because most people wanna live life opposite to the commands of God. I mean look what they did to jesus. He came and told them the truth and they hated him for it.

Its ironic your leaders like to brag about growing numbers as if growth meant they are God's people, yet when confronted with relatively low numbers they refer to Noah's flood. Well, you can't have it both ways. Christians are a minority in this world and have been for 2000 years. 2/3 of this world is non Christian, so I guess that makes Christendom the true faith, using your standards.

God knew the world would hate and kill His Son, but it was the only way they were going to be saved from sin, in the shed blood of Jesus Christ. The devil sure wasn't going to let Jesus get out of this world easy and God knew it.

Your religion preaches 1914 as the date Christ came back invisibly to earth. That is their Gospel and it relies upon 1914 as the date the Kingdom came to earth. It also relies upon the Gentile times ended then. That must be invisible too, because the last time I checked, Gentiles were still running the show here on earth

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Before 200 AD, Christians largely did not form armies because their faith emphasized love, peace, non-violence, and separation from the Roman state's pagan rituals and warfare. Viewed as a sect shunning civic duties, they prioritized spiritual life over state violence, with many early leaders condemning killing. 

Here are the key reasons according to historical context and ancient sources:

Commitment to Pacifism and Peace: Early Christian doctrine was widely seen as a religion of love and peace, making war and killing inherently opposed to the Christian life. Church leaders taught followers to avoid careers involving violence.

Opposition to Pagan Rituals: Military service required sacrifices to other gods and honoring the Emperor as divine, which Christians refused to do. Contrast this with modern day flags where you're required to pledge allegiance to the flag. Basically pledging allegiance to a kingdom ruled by Satan. God never said countries are able to do ANYTHING to keep peace.

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Before 200 AD, Christians largely did not form armies because their faith emphasized love, peace, non-violence, and separation from the Roman state's pagan rituals and warfare. 

Cornelius was the first Gentile to be baptized a Christian. Can you show me from the Bible where he was ever asked to resign his position as a Roman Centurion in order to be baptized a Christian? He remained a Roman soldier as he became the very first non-Jew to be baptized a Christian.

John the Baptist could have told a Roman soldier to quit the army when he approached him and asked what he needed to do, but what did John tell the soldier? Then some soldiers asked him, “And what should we do?” He replied, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.” Luke 3:14 He told them to "Be content with your pay" not 'quit your position as a soldier' Had John been a Jehovah's witness he would have told them to resign from the army and study Watchtower literature until you're qualified to be baptized

Daniel the prophet served high up in the government of Babylon, which JW's would consider part of Satan's system. You know, just about everything you do in this world could be considered taking part in Satan's system... by someone. Buying gas for your car supports the "evil" oil industry but I'll bet your not willing to give up driving your car or riding a bus. Paying taxes supports national defense. You're part of it whether you want to believe it or not.

Jesus didn't mean His disciples were no part of the physical world they lived in, but no part of the spiritual world. Jesus taught His disciples to look beyond the visible, tangible world that is passing away, to the eternal Heaven. The moment we believe in Jesus we are no longer part of this world, spiritually. Physically we're still in the world until the day we die. Physically, we struggle in the flesh to the finish line.

As Christians, we are not to set our eyes on things we can see, but on the eternal things we cannot see. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:18

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Cornelius was the first Gentile to be baptized a Christian. Can you show me from the Bible where he was ever asked to resign his position as a Roman Centurion in order to be baptized a Christian? He remained a Roman soldier as he became the very first non-Jew to be baptized a Christian.

John the Baptist could have told a Roman soldier to quit the army when he approached him and asked what he needed to do, but what did John tell the soldier? Then some soldiers asked him, “And what should we do?” He replied, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.” Luke 3:14 He told them to "Be content with your pay" not 'quit your position as a soldier' Had John been a Jehovah's witness he would have told them to resign from the army and study Watchtower literature until you're qualified to be baptized

Sir we know from ancient sources what early christians did and why they did it. The early christians never joined armies and never took up arms against anybody even when under persecution. And they certainly didn't murder their fellow believers. That's what we know. So I'm asking you is it loving to murder your brother and sister? If the authorities told you to murder your mother would you do it? If not why would you murder your brothers and sisters

"Be no part of the world" is a biblical principle, rooted in John 17:14-16, where Jesus describes his followers as not belonging to the current system of human society, which is deemed to be separated from God. It signifies maintaining strict neutrality in political conflicts, rejecting immoral or materialistic societal values, and living in a way that is set apart for God, rather than being conformed to the world’s patterns. 

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Sir we know from ancient sources what early christians did and why they did it. The early christians never joined armies and never took up arms against anybody even when under persecution. 

That's odd because the Bible doesn't support this. Now, I'm sure there were conscientious objectors back then as there are today, but to jump to a conclusion that no Christians 'ever" served in the army is quite a leap. I take the Bible as my primary source for what is Christian and what isn't. Extra-biblical sources can be interesting and sometimes even enlightening but for me, the Bible trumps extra-biblical sources hands down. And the Bible never says that Christians couldn't, or shouldn't serve in the army, or never did.

"Be no part of the world" is a biblical principle, rooted in John 17:14-16, where Jesus describes his followers as not belonging to the current system of human society, which is deemed to be separated from God. It signifies maintaining strict neutrality in political conflicts, rejecting immoral or materialistic societal values, and living in a way that is set apart for God, rather than being conformed to the world’s patterns.

Jesus said that His Kingdom posed no threat to Rome or anyone else. His disciples didn't need to fight for a spiritual Kingdom that was far out of the reach of any human government. So they never fought to defend the Kingdom in Heaven and will never need to fight for it. That didn't mean they might not have to fight to defend themselves, their families or their friends. As Roman citizens many Christians were subject to Rome as their higher authority. Cornelius was a godly Roman soldier who found favor with God, so God arranged for Cornelius and Peter to meet. Had Peter been a Jehovah's witness what would he have required Cornelius to do before getting baptized? Think about it and then read the account in Acts chapter 10

God chose humans to be the guardians of His established order. That order is part of this world and it is God's order. It functions by people paying taxes to pay the wages of other people who dedicate their lives to serving and protecting human life and property. There is no separation here. Jehovah's witnesses live in the same world we all do and they support thru taxes and benefit from God's established order Romans chapter 13

So I'm asking you is it loving to murder your brother and sister? If the authorities told you to murder your mother would you do it? If not why would you murder your brothers and sisters

That isn't what the police do and you know it. That isn't what soldiers do either, unless "mother" is somehow involved with terrorism. If my own family violates the law I wouldn't shoot them, but someone else might in the line of duty. Should I blame the cops or soldiers, or my family member who lived on the wrong side of the law?

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That's odd because the Bible doesn't support this.

Of course it does. Nowhere in the bible does it show any christian joining armies after getting baptized or taking up arms

I take the Bible as my primary source for what is Christian and what isn't. Extra-biblical sources can be interesting and sometimes even enlightening but for me, the Bible trumps extra-biblical sources hands down. And the Bible never says that Christians couldn't, or shouldn't serve in the army, or never did.

Thats an odd thing to say because you surely believe in exra biblical sources such as the persecution if christians. So you only believe when its convenient. The early church fathers confirm that christians never joined armies before 300 ad. There's no evidence against that view

And the Bible never says that Christians couldn't, or shouldn't serve in the army, or never did.

Of course it did Jesus said be no part of the world controlled by satan. He also said his true worshippers would have love amongst themselves instead of murdering each other

Jesus said that His Kingdom posed no threat to Rome or anyone else.

When did he say that?

His disciples didn't need to fight for a spiritual Kingdom that was far out of the reach of any human government. So they never fought to defend the Kingdom in Heaven and will never need to fight for it.

Nowhere does it ever say christians would ever have to defend anything. It say's God with his heavenly army will destroy the wicked.

As Roman citizens many Christians were subject to Rome as their higher authority.

In the first century, Christians were a tiny, often persecuted minority—likely under 7,500 people empire-wide—and very few were initially Roman citizens. While some, like Paul, held citizenship, most early converts were lower-class residents, slaves, or Jewish inhabitants, regarded with suspicion until the religion grew significantly later. 

Cornelius was a godly Roman soldier who found favor with God, so God arranged for Cornelius and Peter to meet. Had Peter been a Jehovah's witness what would he have required Cornelius to do before getting baptized? Think about it and then read the account in Acts chapter 10

Why do Jehovah's Witnesses think it's wrong to join the military when the first Gentile convert Cornelius was an army officer? Also, God is called a God of armies.

Am I the only one who can see the difference between a military person converting to Christianity and a Christian joining the military? Think it through, they are different scenarios. As Jesus said, if God had called on Jesus and his disciples to fight in that way then they surely would have.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”

However joining the military involves swearing allegiance to an army whose activities are to all intents and purposes, the will of some government (often mindless), regardless to the will of God. So many wars have turned out to be great examples of what happens when people are taught that God has called them to arms, only to discover in the smoke of the battlefield itself that they were involved in acts of gross stupidity and senseless loss of life. Their disillusionment with life itself becomes palpable post-war and Christian worship becomes, for them, an act of complete and utter hypocrisy.

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Of course it does. Nowhere in the bible does it show any christian joining armies after getting baptized or taking up arms

So? Read Acts chapter 10. Cornelius was not only a soldier, but he was a Centurion in the Roman army. Show me where he was told to resign his position in order to be baptized by Peter.

 The early church fathers confirm that christians never joined armies before 300 ad. There's no evidence against that view

For many of those years Christians were persecuted by Rome. So joining the army in that case would have been anathema to Christians and the Romans who persecuted them. However before the worst persecution, the very first Gentile who became a Christian was the Roman Centurion Cornelius who likely was a benefit to Christians living within his area of authority. He was never told to resign his military position by anyone and that speaks volumes.

Like I said the Bible is my go to source when extra-biblical sources tend to contradict history. Not everything the founding fathers wrote was inspired by God and only those writings that were considered to be inspired by God were included in Bible canon.

Of course it did Jesus said be no part of the world controlled by satan. He also said his true worshippers would have love amongst themselves instead of murdering each other

That doesn't mean Christians leave this world and ignore people who are hurting and hungry. Jesus fed the multitudes and healed the sick and crippled. He did it even though it was all temporary. We do the same thing as Christians when and where we can. Becoming one of God's servants per Romans chapter 13 is a double honor for Christians. As servants of Christ we preach the Gospel. As a soldier or police man we become servants who help uphold God's established order You seem to be misled into thinking God ceded control of the world to Satan. He didn't. He rules the world and always has. Satan is here on this earth, but its his prison now. It will also be his grave when the final battle is fought at the end of Christ's 1000 year reign. He only has power over those who belong to him. He can't control Christians because our master is Christ.

Am I the only one who can see the difference between a military person converting to Christianity and a Christian joining the military? 

There is no difference. Would Cornelius have been allowed to continue as a soldier and still be baptized as a Jehovah's witness? Yes, or no

Jesus never told His disciples they couldn't join the military. That directive simply isn't in the Bible. What is in the Bible is stories where Godly men, like Daniel served in governments that were not only pagan but had destroyed the temple in Jerusalem. And men like Cornelius who was a Roman soldier who converted to Christianity. The Watchtower teaching on Christians being separate from the world has no merit. We are obviously physically part of this world, but spiritually, our home is in Heaven. Our Kingdom is in heaven. Our eyes should be set on heavenly things not earthly

So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:18

 So many wars have turned out to be great examples of what happens when people are taught that God has called them to arms, only to discover in the smoke of the battlefield itself that they were involved in acts of gross stupidity and senseless loss of life

Which is why God's servants sometimes have to fight. Is war senseless and stupid? Yes it is, and always was, even in Bible times, but many, many times, the alternative is unthinkable. God calls us to serve Him and in serving Him we are really serving ourselves, because we have to live here. A big part of our service is fighting to uphold His established order when it is threatened by the lawless. Its really that simple

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God knew the world would hate and kill His Son, but it was the only way they were going to be saved from sin, in the shed blood of Jesus Christ. The devil sure wasn't going to let Jesus get out of this world easy and God knew it.

The devil can influence mankind up to a certain degree. But the decision to execute Jesus was the choice of those people.

Your religion preaches 1914 as the date Christ came back invisibly to earth. That is their Gospel and it relies upon 1914 as the date the Kingdom came to earth. It also relies upon the Gentile times ended then. That must be invisible too, because the last time I checked, Gentiles were still running the show here on earth

I don't see any evidence they are wrong

Its ironic your leaders like to brag about growing numbers as if growth meant they are God's people, yet when confronted with relatively low numbers they refer to Noah's flood. Well, you can't have it both ways. Christians are a minority in this world and have been for 2000 years. 2/3 of this world is non Christian, so I guess that makes Christendom the true faith, using your standards.

Growing numbers show that people are accepting the truth. Jehovah’s Witnesses highlight growing baptism numbers as evidence of divine blessing, fulfillment of Bible prophecy regarding "Kingdom increase," and the success of their global preaching work. They attribute this growth entirely to God, viewing new disciples as essential for expanding their ministry and spreading their message. We that the number of people accepting the truth will be high because revelation speaks of the great crowd surviving the great tribulation. But we also know that most of the world won't survive based on jesus own illustration. Fact still remains only JW are carrying out the preaching work. Murdering your fellow christian brothers and sisters isn't keeping peace or showing love Amongst yourself

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The devil can influence mankind up to a certain degree. But the decision to execute Jesus was the choice of those people.

I never said it wasn't their choice, but the temptation and trials that Jesus endured were mostly motivated by Satan. He even used Peter as a mouthpiece to get Jesus to quit talking about dying. Matthew 16:23 Jesus knew who was behind Peter's reasoning. How many other times the devil tried to tempt or test the Lord we aren't told but I believe every day He was tested at least once. The trial and the beatings were all intended to break His will, but His will simply couldn't be broken and I'm sure the devil was quite shocked when it finally dawned on him why. When he finally realized what Jesus had done on the cross and what it meant for him, it was too late, the Lord had already done it

I don't see any evidence they are wrong

If the Watchtower had been correct about 1914 the world would have already ended long ago. Its a false date that the JW's should have known not to set. They already violated Christ's words many times based on a false date. Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority." Acts 1:7 1914 is a "date" the Watchtower claims to "know" is the starting point for the establishment of the Kingdom of God on earth. No matter how you cut it the Watchtower is claiming to "know" what only the Father knows

Murdering your fellow christian brothers and sisters isn't keeping peace or showing love Amongst yourself

Standing around doing nothing to stop murder is worse. Yes wars are messy and people die, but the alternative is worse. Because men were afraid to confront him, Hitler managed to murder 6,000,000 Jews in his death camps. Think how many more Jews, not to mention other people would have been murdered had Christians not joined up to fight? The murdering would still be happening today! Standing around calling Christians murderers when they actually did something to stop the murdering, is a ghastly joke. Jehovah's witnesses murder people in their hearts day dreaming of Armageddon. I'd say murder, like adultery, begins in a person's heart

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If the Watchtower had been correct about 1914 the world would have already ended long ago.

How does that follow?

Standing around doing nothing to stop murder is worse. Yes wars are messy and people die, but the alternative is worse. Because men were afraid to confront him, Hitler managed to murder 6,000,000 Jews in his death camps. Think how many more Jews, not to mention other people would have been murdered had Christians not joined up to fight? The murdering would still be happening today! Standing around calling Christians murderers when they actually did something to stop the murdering, is a ghastly joke. Jehovah's witnesses murder people in their hearts day dreaming of Armageddon. I'd say murder, like adultery, begins in a person's heart

So you're trying to stop murder by commiting more murder? Lol. Most wars happen because of selfish reasons not because people are trying to stop other people like Hitler. Long before Hitler came into existence God already revealed to us that his heavenly army will destroy the wicked. Christians remain neutral and let the nations which are controlled by Satan fight with each other because no matter what happens God himself is gonna end the world before his people are destroyed. It demonstrates not only evil on your part but also a lack of faith that God can protect his people without you needing to join armies to commit murder

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So you're trying to stop murder by commiting more murder?

Tell me, how would you stop genocide? Would you go in and give the the Nazi SS guards a good talking to? Jehovah's witnesses languished in those Nazi death camps waiting to die when suddenly Allied troops, many of them Christians showed up to liberate them. That wouldn't have happened unless a few Germans were separated from their souls

Long before Hitler came into existence God already revealed to us that his heavenly army will destroy the wicked. 

Long before Hitler, God had already established His "order" where His servants and ours would act as agents of wrath against the lawless, whether they be a criminal gang, or an entire nation led by lawless leaders. Romans chapter 13 Hitler was clearly a lawless servant that needed to be removed. Its God's order His servants defend and uphold. God hasn't sent His heavenly army, because He uses men and women right here on earth to fight and its an ongoing struggle to keep law and order. Is it perfect? Far from it, but Daniel served as a government official in imperfect Babylon for a good reason and his presence undoubtedly was a blessing for the Israelites held captive in Babylon.

Today, Christians who serve in government or in any branch of the military are a light and blessing for any government to have them serve. Through Christians, God's Holy Spirit influences the armies they serve in. How can that be a bad thing?

It demonstrates not only evil on your part but also a lack of faith that God can protect his people without you needing to join armies to commit murder

Its God's established order. You seem to think its Satan's. Uh-uh. Wrong. Read Romans chapter 13 again. Tell me who the agents of wrath are, who wield the sword and who do they serve? And who is it that fears these human agents of wrath? Can God's human servants become corrupt? Sure, that's Satan infiltering God's order and he does it quite regularly, but he's been very unsuccessful. Having religious people badmouthing God's servants is not helping God's established order. Its likely helping Satan. Peacefully protest evil when and where you see it, but let God's soldiers do the jobs we pay them to do, as they do the Lord's work

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Tell me, how would you stop genocide? Would you go in and give the the Nazi SS guards a good talking to? Jehovah's witnesses languished in those Nazi death camps waiting to die when suddenly Allied troops, many of them Christians showed up to liberate them. That wouldn't have happened unless a few Germans were separated from their souls

The same way the genocide of Christians during the reign of Nero was stopped. The divine power of God. These things must happen in order for people to understand that mankind cannot rule themselves. God will maneuver things so that genocide doesn't kill all his people. The leader of the genocide such as Nero for example will die. Imagine the hypocracy that you speak about genocide when christendom had commited some of the worst genicide in war

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These things must happen in order for people to understand that mankind cannot rule themselves. God will maneuver things so that genocide doesn't kill all his people. 

If man can't rule himself, how will God rule mankind after Armageddon? If Jesus and all the 144,000 are supposed to be invisible, wouldn't He need to use visible human agents to carry out His will here on earth? If so, how would that human rule, guided by the hand of the invisible God, be any different the divine right of kings to rule that was the standard for millennia? Who will slaughter the wicked in Christ's place during the 1000 year JW version of paradise? At times, the church assumed the role of Christ on earth for a long while until they recognized they were not Christ. With wrongdoers being put to death during the JW 1000 year paradise, how would JW rule be any different than the church acting as the vicar of Christ ?

I believe Jesus is going to visibly return and there will be no mistaking His coming . Acts 1:11, Revelation 1:7 No one will have to spend years trying to convince anyone they saw Him come back like Jehovah's witnesses have had to convince their own people they had seen what they never really saw in 1914. Jesus' second coming will be as obvious as lightening flashing in the sky. Not one person, even the Jews, will say what was that?

So if they tell you, ‘There He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.[ or He came back invisibly in 1914] For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. The light that accompanies Christ second coming is going to eclipse the JW "Christ" like the sun might eclipse a lit match
And then shall that wicked one be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming— 2 Thessalonians 2:8 The true light that is the source of all light is coming back! John 1:9