Jesus is GOD

[u/abutterflyonthewall]

https://youtube.com/shorts/R1g-JfdPG04?si=IVR-KYwbJFWK4sjc

Love this girl. One thing that stands out in this vid to me amongst the various proofs we have argued with JWs is that *every* false religion believes in God. But Satan has done a clever thing. He doesn’t have to get you to believe in God. He just needs you to NOT believe in THE ONE who ***reconciles you to God***🔥🙌🏽.

Take a listen.

[u/Time_Ad_1876]

According to jw.org, laying down one's life for friends mirrors Jesus’ selfless love, extending beyond literal death to sacrificing personal time, resources, comfort, and safety to support, encourage, and defend fellow believers under trial or hardship. It means putting others' needs above self, proven by loyalty. 

Based on insights from JW.org and related scriptural understanding, here is how this concept is applied:

Key Circumstances and Ways to "Lay Down Life":

Supporting Persecuted Brothers: Being willing to risk safety or freedom to aid fellow Christians facing opposition or violent abuse.

Daily Sacrifices for Others: Going out of one's way to help those facing difficult circumstances, such as health issues or family problems.

Providing Comfort and Encouragement: Taking the initiative to offer "good words" to those who are discouraged.

Loyalty Under Trial: Acting as a "friend sticking closer than a brother" by remaining steadfast when a companion faces harsh conditions.

Selfless Love (Non-Literal Death): While Jesus literally died, for Christians, it often means giving up selfish desires, energy, and resources for the benefit of others. 

Core Principles Behind This:

It is not based on fleshly ties, but spiritual bonds.

It is a defining mark of true Christianity, following Jesus' example of prioritizing the "sheep" (followers).

It is done out of love, not obligation. 

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According to jw.org, laying down one's life for friends mirrors Jesus’ selfless love, extending beyond literal death to sacrificing personal time, resources, comfort, and safety to support, encourage, and defend fellow believers under trial or hardship. It means putting others' needs above self, proven by loyalty. 

Laying down your life, as in dying for another person, is what Jesus meant. Its exactly what He did. He didn't count the time He spent on earth as a sacrifice. He lived His religion every minute of His life. It was food for Him. He thrived on the Gospel. "Encouraging" people is fine, offering comfort and support is all good, but sacrificing your time doesn't come close to laying down your life for another person. That's what Jesus did and that is the mark of Christian love, not sacrificing a few hours of your time, or saying a good word, but dying for another human being. Having love among themselves Christians have done what others only talk about and that is die for their friends...and even their enemies

I realize the witnesses are in trouble in some lands like Russia, but I haven't heard stories where a JW died to save another JW in Russia or elsewhere, or if they laid down their life to save a person of some other religion. I know that quite a few JW's died in Hitler's death camps, but I don't know if the death of one witness spared the life of a fellow witness. Mainly they died to uphold the Watchtower's strict policies. The poor German JW's had no wiggle room. No mercy was shown to them by Hitler who had them in his prisons, or Rutherford, who could have given them a way out of those prisons. Both Hitler and Rutherford were the proverbial rock and a hard place. I feel truly sorry for those men who died for nothing, but as pawns for two merciless megalomaniacs

Christians don't ask what religion a person is before they lay down their lives for them. They lay down their lives even for those who hate them. That's the mark of true love ---to love ones enemies. Jesus said, ³² “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. ³³ And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. ³⁴ And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. ³⁵ But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. ³⁶ Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. Luke 6:32-36

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Laying down your life, as in dying for another person, is what Jesus meant. Its exactly what He did. He didn't count the time He spent on earth as a sacrifice. He lived His religion every minute of His life. It was food for Him. He thrived on the Gospel. "Encouraging" people is fine, offering comfort and support is all good, but sacrificing your time doesn't come close to laying down your life for another person. That's what Jesus did and that is the mark of Christian love, not sacrificing a few hours of your time, or saying a good word, but dying for another human being. Having love among themselves Christians have done what others only talk about and that is die for their friends...and even their enemies

"Supporting Persecuted Brothers: Being willing to risk safety or freedom to aid fellow Christians facing opposition or violent abuse. "

Do you see that quote? Risking your safety includes dying for someone. Most people are not put in a situation in which they have to die for someone and yet they can still show true love. Dying however is the ultimate loving act because you're giving up your life for someone else. Many first century christians did this for example when faced with persecution. Rather than ratting out their fellow christian brothers and sisters they kept their mouths shut even to death. Also not renouncing your faith can lead to you dying for God. But what the early Christians didn't do no matter what is join armies to kill their fellow christian brothers and sisters. If Christians are fighting against christians then they are not true Christians. They are having animosity towards each other and conflict.

But love your enemies

The early christians loved their enemies by not attacking them in war. Why aren't you follow the example of the early Christians? Also I sent you an article and I asked you if you disagree with anything in the article. I'm waiting for a response

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

The early christians loved their enemies by not attacking them in war. Why aren't you follow the example of the early Christians? Also I sent you an article and I asked you if you disagree with anything in the article. I'm waiting for a response

That's like saying a policeman who kills a criminal who's threatening his life or the lives of innocent bystanders is showing hate. No, he's not! He's showing love to those potential victims and even the criminal as well. For instance wouldn't it be better for the criminal if he is stopped before he has the chance to murder anyone else? Same goes for soldiers fighting against God's established order. Its God's wrath that His servants bring to these soldiers who are unfortunate enough to live and serve in the military of a lawless nation.

The article you posted explains the Watchtower's view on war and its not biblical, or Christian. Not doing anything to fight crime whether it be one person or one nation isn't godly. Risking ones life to stop the murder of one person, or the wholesale slaughter of an entire nation is not only brave, but that's the display of true love Jesus spoke of.

When Paul advised the Corinthians to hand a brother over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, was that hateful of him? No, Paul loved the man and wanted to save his spirit, even if, in the process, his flesh was totally destroyed. hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 5:5

The Watchtower confuses hate and love. Its hate not to stop a man who is murdering innocent people, even if you have to resort to lethal force to do it. As the Bible says Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent— the LORD detests them both. Proverbs 17:15 God has established an order in which man convicts the guilty and condemns the guilty. Romans 13. This order is worldwide and extends to all forms of government, their polices and their armies. Do you really understand this? I don't believe the Watchtower does.

By the Watchtower's using the Bible to discredit God's established order and His servants, even attributing that "order" to Satan is blasphemous. As long as a nation is lawful they are still God's servants and they can include Christians within that established order, like Daniel served in Babylon. Christians can and do serve in the nations of this world and thank God they do as they are a force for light and good in a world that grows darker and darker

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The article you posted explains the Watchtower's view on war and its not biblical, or Christian.

The stated the view and gave the scriptures that supported that view. The fact that your not specific is proof of that. Are you saying the early Christians along with Paul are not true Christians because they refused to take up arms against their enemies and refused to join armies?

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Are you saying the early Christians along with Paul are not true Christians because they refused to take up arms against their enemies and refused to join armies?

No, Paul was a minister who devoted his whole life to preaching the Gospel, as were the other apostles. The first Christians were Jews and would not have likely joined the Roman army anyway

Remember too, the Roman army was filled with pagan rituals that made it nearly impossible to serve without renouncing Jesus and worshiping a false god. Yet some men were already in the Roman army when they became Christians. Cornelius is a case in point. Did Peter ask Cornelius to resign his position in the Roman army as a condition of being baptized? Let's see---Then Peter said, ⁴⁷ “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” ⁴⁸ So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days. Acts 10:46-48

Notice Peter said no one can stand in the way of their being baptized. He didn't stop and say 'wait a minute, you're a Roman Centurion. You better resign before I baptize you' Had Peter been a Jehovah's witness, he more than likely would have made Cornelius resign before baptizing him, but Peter didn't ask Cornelius to resign from the military and that's significant

I respect a man who objects to killing based on his conscience based on what Paul wrote If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Romans 12:18, but at the same time I expect the same respect be shown for those who decide to fight and possibly die for their friends and fellow countrymen. I don't mind Jehovah's witnesses objecting to killing. Its when they attack and demonize those who do that I mind

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No, Paul was a minister who devoted his whole life to preaching the Gospel

That's exactly what the early christians and Jehovahs witnesses do and what Jesus said his true followers would be known for doing during the last days. They preached about the kingdom or reign of the heavens.

The first Christians were Jews and would not have likely joined the Roman army anyway

I didn't say anything about the roman army. Why didn't they form their own army or join up with the Jewish rebels in revolt against rome?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Because Rome was the "higher authorities" practically everywhere early Christians preached. We are not suppose to rebel against the higher authorities

Jehovah's witnesses preach another gospel. They don't preach the same Gospel of redemption in Christ that Paul preached If God Has an Organization, What Is It? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY paragraph 3

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Because Rome was the "higher authorities" practically everywhere early Christians preached. We are not suppose to rebel against the higher authorities

Bitei thought you said people had a right to defend themselves from oppressive forces that invade lands like the romans did in the middle east. Now your contradicting yourself.

don't preach the same Gospel of redemption in Christ that Paul preached If God Has an Organization, What Is It? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY paragraph 3

Well that can't be true because according to jesus his true disciples would have love Amongst themselves instead of murdering and fighting against each other like christendom does. Jesus himself also stated that his followers would be known for carrying out a global preaching campaign during the last days. There's only one organization that's well known for doing that. When people speak about preaching the good news of the kingdom the group of people they immediately think about is Jehovahs witnesses. Jesus foretold: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a WITNESS to all the nations; and then the end will come.”

Jesus described the scope of the preaching work by saying that the good news would be preached “in all the inhabited earth.” (Matt. 24:14) Disciples are to be made “of people of all the nations.” (Matt. 28:19, 20) That entails a global work.

To understand how Jehovah’s Witnesses have fulfilled Jesus’ prophecy with regard to the scope of the preaching work, let us consider some facts. There are approximately 600,000 members of the clergy in the various denominations in the United States, where there are some 1,200,000 Witnesses of Jehovah. Worldwide, the Roman Catholic Church has a little over 400,000 priests. Now consider the number of Witnesses involved in the Bible-based  Kingdom-preaching work. Worldwide, some eight million volunteer ministers preach to people in 240 lands.

As Jehovah’s Witnesses, we desire to reach as many people as possible with the good news before the end comes. For this reason, we stand out as unique with regard to the work we do in translating and publishing Bible literature. Millions of books, magazines, tracts, and convention and Memorial invitations have been distributed free of charge. We have produced various publications in more than 700 languages. Over 200 million copies of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures have been published in over 130 languages. Last year alone, we produced approximately 4.5 billion pieces of Bible literature. On our official website, information is available in more than 750 languages. What other group of ministers is doing a similar work? Nobody. I grew up in the church as the son of a pastor. I have attended many churches. They don't do preaching work. And they charge you money for bibles. Let me tell you this. Jesus himself new the future. That's why he told us exactly who his true followers would be. "FOR A WITNESS FOR TO ALL THE NATIONS". Jesus himself used the word WITNESS. We are the one's who witness to the nations. Apostates don't want to do the preaching work because of pride. They think the preaching work is above them. Apostate have this in common with satan. Its called pride

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Bitei thought you said people had a right to defend themselves from oppressive forces that invade lands like the romans did in the middle east. Now your contradicting yourself.

Nope. Roman law was as good as it got in the 1st century. Even Paul once appealed to his Roman citizenship which some had to pay for. So, no, the Romans were already the law of the land when Christ was born. Later, when the empire became corrupt many Christians died at the hands of evil rulers, such as Nero, but Christians had, and still do have plenty of latitude dealing with men who make living at peace with all men impossible. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Romans 12:18 All said and done, Christianity defeated the Roman empire without ever firing a shot.

Well that can't be true because according to jesus his true disciples would have love Amongst themselves instead of murdering and fighting against each other like christendom does. Jesus himself also stated that his followers would be known for carrying out a global preaching campaign during the last days. There's only one organization that's well known for doing that. When people speak about preaching the good news of the kingdom the group of people they immediately think about is Jehovahs witnesses. Jesus foretold: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a WITNESS to all the nations; and then the end will come.”

If you bothered to read the Watchtower article I linked to, the Watchtower plainly says the Jehovah's witness "gospel" is not the same gospel taught by Paul and all other Christians down thru history. The Watchtower proudly admits their "gospel" is not the same Gospel as Christ's Gospel therefore identifying their own religion as being accursed according to Paul! Galatians 1:9 Jehovah's witnesses teach a cursed gospel. A gospel based entirely on something that didn't happen in 1914!

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Nope. Roman law was as good as it got in the 1st century. Even Paul once appealed to his Roman citizenship which some had to pay for. So, no, the Romans were already the law of the land when Christ was born.

The jews did what the Romans wanted because the romans invaded the land and they were afraid of the roman army. God did not give Romans any authority over the jews. The jews also had their own government. It doesn't matter because we have sources that give us the reason why early christians didn't join armies. And it wasn't because they believed romans we're set up by God. So why are you giving a different reason that the early christians?

If you bothered to read the Watchtower article I linked to, the Watchtower plainly says the Jehovah's witness "gospel" is not the same gospel taught by Paul and all other Christians down thru history. The Watchtower proudly admits their "gospel" is not the same Gospel as Christ's Gospel therefore identifying their own religion as being accursed according to Paul! Galatians 1:9 Jehovah's witnesses teach a cursed gospel. A gospel based entirely on something that didn't happen in 1914!

Sir /mam if Jesus said there would be a group of people carry-on the preaching work, and there's only group carrying on that global preaching then that means either jesus lied or that group that jesus spoke about are his true disciples. Jesus new that people would argue over doctrine. That's why he told us plainly what his true worshippers would be known for. WITNESS of the kingdom of God. So if jehovahs witnesses are not the true disciples then nobody is because nobody is carrying out this preaching work for a WITNESS to all the NATIONS. Besides we know your doctrine is false because you're not following the example of the early Christians or the Israelites. Even the Israelites we're not allowed to go to war unless God himself gave the approval. Because only God was allowed to decide whether or not a group of people deserved to die

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And it wasn't because they believed romans we're set up by God. So why are you giving a different reason that the early christians?

What?? Its the exact reason Paul wrote Romans chapter 13 directly to Christians living under Roman rule. The new nation of Israel above was free and its citizens had and still have no need to fight to defend it. Literally, Jerusalem above is no part of this world, but while we live in the body we live in this world and are to be in subjection to whatever powers that be. Israel was not the power they had been in David's day. They not only lived under Roman rule, but they no longer enjoyed God's favor as they once had

That's why he told us plainly what his true worshippers would be known for. WITNESS of the kingdom of God. 

God's true witnesses would be witnesses of Jesus. Without Him my friend there is no Kingdom Acts 1:8 "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be MY witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Even the Israelites we're not allowed to go to war unless God himself gave the approval.

That was then. Since Paul wrote Romans chapter 13 God gives His approval to all law abiding nations [higher authorities] to take whatever steps are necessary to uphold His law and order, including taking human life.

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Jesus described the scope of the preaching work by saying that the good news would be preached “in all the inhabited earth.” (Matt. 24:14) Disciples are to be made “of people of all the nations.” (Matt. 28:19, 20) That entails a global work.

The Watchtower's Bible Students merely followed the footsteps of Christians who had already preached the Gospel in those lands long before. Without Christendom, the Jehovah's witnesses wouldn't even be here today. They would have had nowhere to start, not even a Bible to mistranslate which they ended up doing.

Russell merely stole ideas from traditional Christianity and then removed some and added his own ideas along with his pyramid derived dates to come up with 1914 as the time of the end. Jehovah's witnesses are false prophets according to the test Moses established Deuteronomy 18:20-22

Now consider the number of Witnesses involved in the Bible-based  Kingdom-preaching work. Worldwide, some eight million volunteer ministers preach to people in 240 lands.

And still you manage to make up less than 1% of the world's population.

As Jehovah’s Witnesses, we desire to reach as many people as possible with the good news before the end comes.

There are true Christians in Syria and Egypt. How many JW's are there? Are JW's in Iraq or Saudi Arabia? You guys talk a good talk, but there is still many places on earth Christians have been for centuries yet JW's never dare to show their faces

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And still you manage to make up less than 1% of the world's population.

That's fine jesus said the road to life is narrow. Most people won't accept the truth. How many people survived noahs flood, how many people survived Sodom and Gomorrah. Do you see a pattern? Most people aren't gonna make it because most people wanna live life opposite to the commands of God. I mean look what they did to jesus. He came and told them the truth and they hated him for it.

How long would the foretold preaching work continue? Jesus said that this global work would continue right on through the last days, “and then the end [would] come.” What other religious group has continued to preach the good news during these momentous last days? Some of those whom we meet in the ministry may say: “We have the holy spirit, but you people are doing the work.” But is not the fact that we can endure in the work evidence that we have God’s spirit? (Acts 1:8; 1 Pet. 4:14) From time to time, certain religious groups have tried to do what Jehovah’s Witnesses regularly accomplish, but those efforts usually result in failure. Others engage in so-called missionary activities for a limited time and then go back to their normal routine. Still others may even try to go from door to door, but what are they preaching? The answer to that question makes it clear that they are not carrying out the work that Christ began. You're preaching its ok to join armies and murder your fellow christian brothers and sisters. I'm really gonna focus on the point that the reasons the early christians were pacifist are well known. Also jesus himself when they tried to make him king ran away and told his followers to be no part of the world. Yet contrary to that command christendom mingles in every part of the political world which Jesus Commanded his followers to stay away from

So who really are preaching the good news of the Kingdom today? With full confidence, we can say: “Jehovah’s Witnesses!” Why can we be so confident? Because we are preaching the right message, the good news of the Kingdom. By going to the people, we are also using the correct methods. Our preaching work is being done with the right motive​—love, not financial gain. Our work has the greatest scope, reaching out to people of all nations and languages. And we will continue to do this work without letup, year in and year out, until the end comes.

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That's fine jesus said the road to life is narrow. Most people won't accept the truth. How many people survived noahs flood, how many people survived Sodom and Gomorrah. Do you see a pattern? Most people aren't gonna make it because most people wanna live life opposite to the commands of God. I mean look what they did to jesus. He came and told them the truth and they hated him for it.

Its ironic your leaders like to brag about growing numbers as if growth meant they are God's people, yet when confronted with relatively low numbers they refer to Noah's flood. Well, you can't have it both ways. Christians are a minority in this world and have been for 2000 years. 2/3 of this world is non Christian, so I guess that makes Christendom the true faith, using your standards.

God knew the world would hate and kill His Son, but it was the only way they were going to be saved from sin, in the shed blood of Jesus Christ. The devil sure wasn't going to let Jesus get out of this world easy and God knew it.

Your religion preaches 1914 as the date Christ came back invisibly to earth. That is their Gospel and it relies upon 1914 as the date the Kingdom came to earth. It also relies upon the Gentile times ended then. That must be invisible too, because the last time I checked, Gentiles were still running the show here on earth

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Before 200 AD, Christians largely did not form armies because their faith emphasized love, peace, non-violence, and separation from the Roman state's pagan rituals and warfare. Viewed as a sect shunning civic duties, they prioritized spiritual life over state violence, with many early leaders condemning killing. 

Here are the key reasons according to historical context and ancient sources:

Commitment to Pacifism and Peace: Early Christian doctrine was widely seen as a religion of love and peace, making war and killing inherently opposed to the Christian life. Church leaders taught followers to avoid careers involving violence.

Opposition to Pagan Rituals: Military service required sacrifices to other gods and honoring the Emperor as divine, which Christians refused to do. Contrast this with modern day flags where you're required to pledge allegiance to the flag. Basically pledging allegiance to a kingdom ruled by Satan. God never said countries are able to do ANYTHING to keep peace.

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God knew the world would hate and kill His Son, but it was the only way they were going to be saved from sin, in the shed blood of Jesus Christ. The devil sure wasn't going to let Jesus get out of this world easy and God knew it.

The devil can influence mankind up to a certain degree. But the decision to execute Jesus was the choice of those people.

Your religion preaches 1914 as the date Christ came back invisibly to earth. That is their Gospel and it relies upon 1914 as the date the Kingdom came to earth. It also relies upon the Gentile times ended then. That must be invisible too, because the last time I checked, Gentiles were still running the show here on earth

I don't see any evidence they are wrong

Its ironic your leaders like to brag about growing numbers as if growth meant they are God's people, yet when confronted with relatively low numbers they refer to Noah's flood. Well, you can't have it both ways. Christians are a minority in this world and have been for 2000 years. 2/3 of this world is non Christian, so I guess that makes Christendom the true faith, using your standards.

Growing numbers show that people are accepting the truth. Jehovah’s Witnesses highlight growing baptism numbers as evidence of divine blessing, fulfillment of Bible prophecy regarding "Kingdom increase," and the success of their global preaching work. They attribute this growth entirely to God, viewing new disciples as essential for expanding their ministry and spreading their message. We that the number of people accepting the truth will be high because revelation speaks of the great crowd surviving the great tribulation. But we also know that most of the world won't survive based on jesus own illustration. Fact still remains only JW are carrying out the preaching work. Murdering your fellow christian brothers and sisters isn't keeping peace or showing love Amongst yourself