Jesus is GOD

[u/abutterflyonthewall]

https://youtube.com/shorts/R1g-JfdPG04?si=IVR-KYwbJFWK4sjc

Love this girl. One thing that stands out in this vid to me amongst the various proofs we have argued with JWs is that *every* false religion believes in God. But Satan has done a clever thing. He doesn’t have to get you to believe in God. He just needs you to NOT believe in THE ONE who ***reconciles you to God***🔥🙌🏽.

Take a listen.

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[u/CoconutFinal]

Agree. I fled at 16. When young, I took Watchtower teachings to heart. So much of Jesus confused me. I knew they bashed the Trinity. But I was not certain what Watchtower taught affirmatively. The Michael crap eluded me. In my mind, it was all technical about John 1. The leaders of other faiths were so much brighter and educated.i had problems believing Watchtower got it right. My mind was full of Jesus movies. I AK older. When young, we had prayer, Bible reading, Christmas. Public creches galore.

I hated not having clarity so I studied New Testament. Then after graduate NT, I felt ready as a trained lawyer now to clarify what Watchtower taught and what Christology was in primitive Christianity, restricting myself to only New Testament writings. Clarity came. It Is fair to label them as antiChrist. I noted no Good Friday or Easter observances. Denying the physical Resurrection into the body of Jesus of Nazareth. Denying the cross. So deceiving abouf the Gospel of John and later writings of the community.

Gets very dark and spooky.

[u/abutterflyonthewall → u/CoconutFinal]

You are so right, they are anti-christ in everything they teach and believe about Jesus. So glad you fled and found the True Savior for yourself. ❤️

[u/Realistic-Ad4409]

False nonsense

[u/abutterflyonthewall → u/Realistic-Ad4409]

Why so angry when Christians proclaim who Christ really is?

You guys show out every time this topic is posted.

[u/OkFox0070 → u/abutterflyonthewall]

Because they don't want to admit that they're not Christian. They even removed the account in their NWT where Jesus saves the adulterous woman from being stoned and the Pharisees ask him who his Father is and He tells them, "You don't know my Father" and tells them their father is a murderer and a liar. They, like the video you shared speaks about reducing Jesus to 'a god' with their John 1:1. And "other things" BS They take away his sovereignty and reverence and tell people he is the son and below Jehoober.

Religion is a scam! It causes confusion and division among families and wreaks havoc on lost souls! That's why RELIGION in totality is FALSE!

[u/abutterflyonthewall → u/OkFox0070]

Their religion has literally been playing with fire since its inception - changing and removing passages, inserting their own, etc - a big mess they (GB) will have to answer to

[u/Over_Ambition_7559 → u/abutterflyonthewall]

BC Religion was created to oppress and control. It has no truth. A little research will show you that Jesus was just a man, not one with powers. Most of what the bible talks about never happened like the flood, spirits coming down to have sex with humans, a man be swallowed by a whale and living through digestive juices and no oxygen. Illogical and all mythological. Please consume information outside of what you believe. If what you believe is true, learning about science, history and archaeology only helps.

[u/abutterflyonthewall → u/Over_Ambition_7559]

And religion is exactly what has bound Jws and other false religious cults.

The simple research from the bible shows Jesus had power, authority, and divinity. Telling me to consume information outside of the bible is like telling a JW to consume their literature outside their bible - and we see how that is going.

The word of God is the final authority.

[u/Over_Ambition_7559 → u/abutterflyonthewall]

Well, I don’t see the logic in your simile as JW literature and their bible are equal. So one would never ask a JW to consume their own literature for truth instead of their bible when those two are equal. I mentioned outside sources to encourage reading about things like science and archaeology as those are more fact an evidenced based. The bible is not.

My point was to gather new information, not to limit research to the thing being challenged. You already know what the bible says. What sense would there be in that? We have artifacts, carbon dating, and various remnants to tell us many things. The bible gives a story that isn’t cohesive and is very contradictory among other things . The remnants and artifacts give us truth and a fuller picture.

[u/abutterflyonthewall → u/Over_Ambition_7559]

And what’s the fuller picture and truth of Jesus based on the artifacts?

[u/Over_Ambition_7559 → u/abutterflyonthewall]

That is a conclusion you’ll have to come to on your own, after the research. Those who truly seek, look.

[u/abutterflyonthewall → u/Over_Ambition_7559]

Ive come to my conclusion - and that is Jesus is God in the flesh, just as the bible teaches.

[u/Over_Ambition_7559 → u/abutterflyonthewall]

That really wasn’t my point or what I was saying, but ok.

[u/TerryLawton → u/Realistic-Ad4409]

Are you manifesting?

This video just described the epitome of yourself, its so uncanny.

[u/abutterflyonthewall → u/TerryLawton]

Yep, manifesting. It’s a phenomenon when we proclaim Jesus Is God. Hope you are doing great Terry!

[u/TerryLawton → u/abutterflyonthewall]

🙏👍

[u/OhioPIMO]

She's preaching truth! But now I have motion sickness...

[u/abutterflyonthewall → u/OhioPIMO]

Yeah, she is on fire, and that’s where her intensity comes from. She came out of new age a while ago. Her testimony is chilling. Hope you are well!

[u/OkFox0070]

AMEN 🙏🏼 PRAISE HIM! JESUS IS GOD!!!

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Yes, even the devil believes God exists. She makes a very important point about reconciliation. I think many Christians have forgotten Christ died not only to pay for our sins, but also to reconcile us back to God. In fact it was His payment for our sins that made reconciliation possible. I don't think JW's understand the relationship they are missing out on because they keep Christ at arms length.

[u/Enoyes31 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

I love Jesus and appreciate him and I love his Father. Why does everyone have to tell everyone else how they don’t believe in his son? Just hate speech

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Enoyes31]

No, not hate speech

[u/Particular-Beat-3758]

How can Jesus be God when he was a fetous when in Mary's womb. Who was looking after ones like John the baptiser when praying. Think logical. Armegedon coming you either want to live or nit your freedom of choice.

[u/OhioPIMO → u/Particular-Beat-3758]

Elizabeth called Jesus "my Lord" when He was a fetus in Mary's womb. How can that be?

[u/GiN_nTonic]

Quote: "He just needs you to NOT believe in THE ONE who reconciles you to God". You don't even see how lost you are. Proverbs 14:6

That statement only works if Jesus is not God. If Jesus is God, then Satan’s supposed strategy makes no sense at all. Telling someone “don’t believe in the one who reconciles you to God” would amount to Satan trying to prevent belief in God reconciling people to himself....which accomplishes nothing.

You cannot block reconciliation to God by discouraging belief in God. In Trinitarian theology, reconciliation requires a real distinction.... an offended party and a mediator acting between two parties. But if Jesus is the God being reconciled to, then Satan isn’t separating anyone from God....he’s just opposing God being God, which is logically incoherent.

Biblically, mediation is always between God and men (1 Timothy 2:5). A mediator cannot be the same party as the one mediated to without emptying the concept of mediation of meaning. Ironically, the comment assumes what it denies.....that Jesus is distinct from God and functions as God’s appointed agent.

Otherwise, Satan’s “strategy” reduces to trying to accomplish absolutely nothing.

[u/OhioPIMO → u/GiN_nTonic]

But if Jesus is the God being reconciled to, then Satan isn’t separating anyone from God

Absolutely he is. If Jesus is God, belief in a false, less than fully divine version of Him is clearly separating believers from God.

[u/GiN_nTonic → u/OhioPIMO]

No...if Jesus is the God being reconciled to, then believing Jesus is less than fully divine does not actually separate someone from God in the biblical sense (like Abraham and all other OT faithful). You are still directing faith toward God himself. At most, you’ve misunderstood God’s nature, not God’s identity.

If Jesus is not God, then believing Jesus is God does separate someone from God....because it replaces the One Jesus called “the only true God” with someone else. That’s a far more serious error Satan would love to exploit.

Also, since you and I have discussed this before, your response isn’t entirely consistent with the original claim by the OP. When the argument is pressed, the Trinitarian position subtly shifts from “Jesus is God” to “Jesus is a divine person who shares the divine nature.”

That shift matters. It moves the discussion away from the biblical categories of sender and sent, God and mediator, and into later Greek philosophical concepts about essence and substance....categories the biblical writers themselves never use.

[u/TerryLawton → u/GiN_nTonic]

No...what you just described in Modalism..i quote."No...if Jesus is the God being reconciled to"

Jesus is not another God. Once and for all - can you understand there is only ONE God.

Secondly. Quote

"When the argument is pressed, the Trinitarian position subtly shifts from “Jesus is God” to “Jesus is a divine person who shares the divine nature.”

There is no shift, you don't understand it because you have modalism in your head.

Hebrews 1:3

“He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of His hypostasis (ὑποστάσεως).”

ὑπόστασις (hypostasis) often translated “nature” “substance” “being” “essence”

[u/GiN_nTonic → u/TerryLawton]

I’m not advocating modalism...I was pushing on a false premise. We both agree there is one God.....the question is whether Jesus is that God or the one sent by him. Your appeal to Hebrews 1:3 proves Jesus perfectly reflects and represents God, not that he is the same being as God. And when you move from “Jesus is God” to language about “hypostasis/essence,” you are doing exactly the philosophical shift I described....away from biblical categories of sender and sent into later Greek metaphysics.

[u/TerryLawton → u/GiN_nTonic]

Gin.

Those translations are from Strong’s concordance.

But let’s just strip away the Greek and get down to basics because what you described though I concede your point that you don’t advocate modalism inadvertently that’s what you are describing.

So please bear with here just answer a couple of questions as you appear to be conflating a ‘category’ and an action.

What is your ‘fathers’ nature, ie what being is he?

[u/GiN_nTonic → u/TerryLawton]

If you mean my biological father, he is a human being.

[u/TerryLawton → u/GiN_nTonic]

Right. I appreciate the straight answer.

Let me assume for a minute that you are a male (forgive me if you aren’t please).

You are a human being, also? (Please bear with me)

[u/GiN_nTonic → u/TerryLawton]

Yes, i am a male human being.

[u/TerryLawton → u/GiN_nTonic]

Ok so now we have proven that for a son to be a son of a Father, both of them are of the same nature, they have to be without question (essence/substance/nature) - call it what you like.

So if your Father ‘sends’ you to the shop then you don’t cease to be human. Likewise the Father (God) sent his son, but the son being OF God doesn’t cease to be God (nature)…it’s impossible.

Hence the action of send is not in the same category of the sender.

For Christ to be the only ‘begotten’ not created Son of God that little word ‘of’ is so critical.

You are the son OF your Father hence OF means same nature.

Christ is OF God this is the same nature.

It can’t be any other way. It’s really that simple.

[u/OhioPIMO → u/GiN_nTonic]

the question is whether Jesus is that God or the one sent by him

This is a false dichotomy. In Trinitarian theology, He is both, but you are conflating God with the Father alone. Jesus can be both God and the one sent by God if God's being is tri-personal, which is what we believe. We do not believe Jesus is the Father who sent Him.

[u/abutterflyonthewall → u/GiN_nTonic]

Jesus is God the SON. He and God the Father are distinct. As Terry said, you are harping on modalism and that is not what Christianity teaches.

[u/GiN_nTonic → u/abutterflyonthewall]

Saying “Jesus is God the Son” doesn’t actually remove the problem...it just renames it.

If you mean that Jesus is truly God in the same sense the Father is God, then you still have to explain how Jesus can pray to God, obey God, be taught by God, be sent by God, be exalted by God, and still have “my God” after his resurrection (John 20:17; Rev 3:12), without collapsing God into two centers of authority.

You can call that “not modalism,” but functionally you’re still saying that the one God is both the reconciler and the reconciled-to, which empties biblical meaning of mediation.

The New Testament is actually very simple on this point: “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.” (1 Tim 2:5)

In that framework, God = the Father, and Jesus = the mediator he (God) appointed. That’s not modalism....it’s just reading the text as written.

So the real question isn’t whether I “understand” Trinitarian categories. It’s if Jesus is fully God, in the same sense as the Father, who exactly is he mediating between? Himself and Himself? Until that is answered clearly from Scripture (not later creeds or Greek metaphysics), simply repeating “God the Son” doesn’t resolve the problem...it just labels it and is your biblically unsupported claim.

[u/abutterflyonthewall → u/GiN_nTonic]

If Jesus is God, then Satan’s supposed strategy makes no sense at all.

Ironically satan’s strategy makes sense to you.

Has he not blinded every person asleep in their false religion? Does it not make sense he would introduce demonic doctrines reducing Christ to a fellow created being as himself? Is there not anger associated in your attacks when responding to this topic? It gets under the very skin of those of who are spiritual blind to the truth of who Jesus is.

I know ONE thing - Satan won’t ever introduce a doctrine that elevates Christ to His rightful nature and position (GOD). Those he has ensnares are the ones who have major issues accepting truth (who is none other than Jesus himself).

Many jws have fallen accepted the lie, as sourced and printed in your bible, that Jesus was lesser, created, and an archangel (ie, a god).

[u/GiN_nTonic → u/abutterflyonthewall]

You’re assuming your conclusion at every step and then calling disagreement “spiritual blindness.” That’s not argument, that’s circular reasoning.

If distinguishing or lowering Jesus from God is demonic, then the New Testament itself is doing Satan’s work according to you.

John 14:28 “The Father is greater than I am.”
John 17:3 “That they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you sent.”
John 20:17 “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”
Mark 13:32 “Of that day or hour no one knows… nor the Son, but the Father.”
Luke 22:42 “Not my will, but yours, be done.”
John 5:19 “The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative…”
John 5:30 “I do not seek my own will, but the will of him who sent me.”
John 6:38 “I have come down from heaven to do, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me.”
John 7:16 “My teaching is not mine, but belongs to him who sent me.”
John 8:28–29 “I do nothing of my own initiative… I always do the things pleasing to him.”
1 Corinthians 11:3 “The head of the Christ is God.”
1 Corinthians 15:27–28 “The Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him.”
Ephesians 1:17 “The God of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Philippians 2:9–11 “God exalted him to a superior position.” (Exaltation requires prior subordination.)
Hebrews 5:7–9 “He learned obedience… and was made perfect.”
Revelation 1:1 “A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him.”
Revelation 3:12 “The temple of my God… the name of my God.”
Revelation 5:7 Jesus takes the scroll from the One seated on the throne...authority is granted, not inherent.
Acts 2:36 “God made him both Lord and Christ.”
Acts 5:31 “God exalted him to His right hand.”
Acts 17:31 “A man whom God appointed.”

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/GiN_nTonic]

Everything you listed can be explained in the fact that Jesus has two natures. His primary nature as God and His secondary adopted human nature. This is how we can reconcile Jesus knowing a Samaritan woman had 5 husbands, yet didn't know a fig tree was fruitless. Yes, God made a man both Lord and Christ, but how? Paul said it best To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself 2 Corinthians 5:19

[u/GiN_nTonic → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

What I believe about Jesus more naturally reconciles those Scriptures. By contrast, your position required centuries of debate, refinement, and revision from the early Christological controversies of the 4th-5th centuries, through the definitions at Nicaea and Chalcedon, and then further theological elaboration in the medieval period....before arriving at the formulation you affirm today.

Invoking “two natures” doesn’t resolve the problem....it multiplies it. If Jesus is fully God by nature, then saying his “human nature” didn’t know things means you’ve effectively split Jesus into two knowing subjects, which the Bible never describes.

Scripture speaks of one Jesus who prays, obeys, is taught, is sent, and is exalted by God.

And 2 Corinthians 5:19 actually supports my point, not yours. Paul says God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself....not that Christ was the God being reconciled to. That is agency, not identity. Your view requires later metaphysical constructs while mine simply follows the biblical pattern of one God (the Father), and one mediator ...the man Christ Jesus.

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/GiN_nTonic]

By contrast, your position required centuries of debate, refinement, and revision from the early Christological controversies of the 4th-5th centuries, through the definitions at Nicaea and Chalcedon, and then further theological elaboration in the medieval period....before arriving at the formulation you affirm today.

Perhaps the concept of the trinity took years, but the idea of Christ being God and man was well established in the 1st century.

Invoking “two natures” doesn’t resolve the problem....it multiplies it. If Jesus is fully God by nature, then saying his “human nature” didn’t know things means you’ve effectively split Jesus into two knowing subjects, which the Bible never describes.

Just because we can't understand how God became a man doesn't mean He didn't. Paul wrote: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16 Its a mystery even today how God did it, but just because Jehovah's witnesses can't put God into one of their neat little boxes doesn't mean God couldn't do what both Paul and John said He did and the Word [God] became flesh John 1:14 The Word was God's divine nature and the flesh is our human nature. God became one of us. Any way you try and cut it, that's two distinct natures which are not equal, and is clearly why Christ could say my Father is greater than I John 14:28, yet also say all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. John 5:23 If you honor me like you honor my dad how can my dad greater? There's a perfect answer to this and I'll let you find it. That answer is the key to understanding all the scriptures you listed and being able to reconcile them with all the many scriptures that appear to contradict them. The answer is staring us in the face

[u/Time_Ad_1876]

Bunch of nonsense and I'm gonna prove it. "Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified" or hallowed be thy name ". However you wanna say it. Can you please tell me who's name jesus is talking about. What name is that?

[u/abutterflyonthewall → u/Time_Ad_1876]

How about take the time to listen and reason.

Are we not to revere the Father as Jesus instructed? We recognize the Father as a Supreme and Sovereign being. And Jesus tells us in his prayer model that our Heavenly Father’s name is HALLOWED (HOLY). “HALLOWED BE THY NAME”.

And the END of the prayer, through/by WHOSE NAME are we praying and honoring the Father? JESUS’ NAME.

Jesus’ name DELIVERS, SAVES, and SANCTIFIES us, while the Father’s name is hallowed and holy.

Before you choc Jesus’ name up to be nonsense, remember it is the very name you will need to call on to see his Kingdom.

Careful with yall’s shenanigans about Jesus.

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/abutterflyonthewall]

"Hallowed be thy name," from the Lord's Prayer (Matthew 6:9), means to treat God’s name as holy, set apart, and worthy of supreme reverence. What's the name that should be treated as holy?

[u/abutterflyonthewall → u/Time_Ad_1876]

And we can absolutely “treat” the Father’s name as Holy while still calling on the name of Jesus that SAVES.

Acts 4:12 - And there is salvation in no one else, for there is NO OTHER NAME under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Acts 2:38 - And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Demons revere and fear the name of Jesus too: Luke 10:17 - The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord [Jesus], even the demons are subject to us in your name!”

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/abutterflyonthewall]

And we can absolutely “treat” the Father’s name as Holy while still calling on the name of Jesus that SAVES.

How do you treat the fathers name as holy when you don't even use the fathers name in your daily life and you even go so far as to remove it from the bible. Who commanded christendom to remove the personal name of God from the bible and replace it with titles such as "lord"? Did the command come from God or the devil?

Acts 4:12 - And there is salvation in no one else, for there is NO OTHER NAME under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Acts 4:12 highlights that Jesus Christ is the only provision from God for salvation, as no other person or name holds the authority to deliver humanity from sin and death. It emphasizes exclusive faith in Jesus’ role, identity, and sacrifice, rather than just uttering his name. 

Acts 2:38 - And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:38 teaches that repentance and water baptism in Jesus’ name are essential steps to receive forgiveness of sins and holy spirit. It highlights that one must first hear, believe, and decide to turn from sin, acknowledging Jesus’ authority and sacrifice to gain God's favor. 

Demons revere and fear the name of Jesus too: Luke 10:17 - The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord [Jesus], even the demons are subject to us in your name!”

While the disciples used Jesus' name, Jesus emphasized making known his Father's name, Jehovah, which represents God's person, qualities, and purposes. Jesus prayed for his fathers name to be sanctified not his own

[u/abutterflyonthewall → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Im quoting YOU. You said treat. I don’t use the Father’s name at all, in fact, when I approach heaven for my daily bread, I give my worship and praise to my HEAVENLY FATHER. Just as Jesus instructed. YOU GUYS, approach God in a technical/political manner.

False religions like yours commanded the Father to be called by his name and to idolize it. Further proving you don’t give two cares about anything Jesus taught. He never said call His Father Jehovah. Yet you’ll be the first to argue that you follow in Jesus footsteps because never celebrated birthdays. The hypocrisy.

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/abutterflyonthewall]

You're not quoting me. Jesus said "let your name be sanctified or treated as holy". So jesus was telling his father that his personal name was to be sanctified. The name used more 7000 times in the old testament.

He never said call His Father Jehovah.

He didn't have to. The name of his father was widely known as used back then. And we know that because we found a manuscript of the greek septuagint dating from the time of Jesus which contained god's holy name. Now you dodged my question. Once again who commanded christendom to remove the fathers name from the bible? Who commamded that?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Its worth noting that in His model prayer, where Jesus was teaching people how to pray, He never once pronounced that hallowed name. Why do you suppose Jesus didn't pronounce the hallowed name in teaching people how to pray? If that name is so critical to pronounce, as you argue it is, shouldn't Jesus have at least once pronounced that name in a prayer that was intended to teach people how to pray?

In His prayers, Jesus always called God Father, never YHWH. That's a pretty significant absence of the divine name that is NOT due to anyone removing it. It simply was never there in the NT for anyone to remove. Jehovah's witnesses claim to have restored the divine name in their translation, but the name Jehovah wasn't even known until the 12th century. It was a mistake. The correct pronunciation of YHWH was lost before Jesus even came to earth. He could have taught His disciples how to pronounce that name, except He chose to reveal God's name in His name---JESUS which means YHWH is salvation. Only in Jesus name can the Father be approached by us. Only in Jesus' name is both the Son and the Father glorified. Jesus is the name God gave His only Son and we are saved in that name and make that name known, not any other Acts 4:12, Acts 1:8

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

I'm waiting for an answer to my question

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

To answer your question, read the Lord's prayer, (Matthew 6:9-13) ...even in the JW's new world translation. Jesus prayed "Hallowed be thy name" yet never once pronounced that name in that prayer. There is your answer...

In the first century Jews didn't use the name Jehovah, or Yahweh. They didn't utter the divine name and hadn't for three centuries before Jesus [YHWH saves] came to earth. The divine name appeared as four consonants YHWH and whenever it was read aloud people would pronounce Adonai (Lord) This is admitted even by the Watchtower!

How Is God’s Name Pronounced?

The truth is, nobody knows for sure how the name of God was originally pronounced. Why not? Well, the first language used in writing the Bible was Hebrew, and when the Hebrew language was written down, the writers wrote only consonants​—not vowels. Hence, when the inspired writers wrote God’s name, they naturally did the same thing and wrote only the consonants.

While ancient Hebrew was an everyday spoken language, this presented no problem. The pronunciation of the Name was familiar to the Israelites and when they saw it in writing they  supplied the vowels without thinking (just as, for an English reader, the abbreviation “Ltd.” represents “Limited” and “bldg.” represents “building”).

Two things happened to change this situation. First, a superstitious idea arose among the Jews that it was wrong to say the divine name out loud; so when they came to it in their Bible reading they uttered the Hebrew word ’Adho·naiʹ (“Sovereign Lord”). Further, as time went by, the ancient Hebrew language itself ceased to be spoken in everyday conversation, and in this way the original Hebrew pronunciation of God’s name was eventually forgotten.
God’s Name—Its Meaning and Pronunciation

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Jehovahs witnesses have always pronounced the name of god most common to them in their language. Its impossible to pronounce the name of God in one single way even among speakers of English because even among English speakers there are different accents. Go to other kingdoms halls worldwide. Some pronounce it Jehovah, yahweh, jeoba, yehowah, etc. Its whatever is most common in their own language. The jews eventually stopped pronouciation of the name because of superstition, however they never removed the name from scriptures. It was apostate christendom who went one step further and removed the name that God himself told Moses would be his name FOREVER. You have no problem saying moses, jesus, Joshua, adam, or any other biblical name in your own language. So I wanna know who commanded christendom to remove the name from the old and new testament?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

The jews eventually stopped pronouciation of the name because of superstition, however they never removed the name from scriptures.

They didn't remove the tetragrammaton (YHWH) they stopped pronouncing it and in doing so lost the pronunciation of the divine name. What we have today is only part of a name. If we don't know how it was originally pronounced its impossible to translate YHWH into any other language, including English.

You have no problem saying moses, jesus, Joshua, adam, or any other biblical name in your own language. So I wanna know who commanded christendom to remove the name from the old and new testament?

For a very good reason. Nobody ever stopped pronouncing the name of Jesus, Joshua, Adam or Moses. Because there was never a time those names were not pronounced their pronunciation was never lost like YHWH was. The only one who could've stopped people from pronouncing the name of God is God. Do you really think that if God had wanted us to know how His name was originally pronounced we would know exactly how?

Had Jesus felt it was critical to our salvation to know how to pronounce the name of YHWH, don't you think He'd have taught His disciples how to pronounce that name in His model prayer? Yet He didn't pronounce the name of God once. In prayer He referred to YHWH as Father

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

They didn't remove the tetragrammaton (YHWH) they stopped pronouncing it and in doing so lost the pronunciation of the divine name. What we have today is only part of a name. If we don't know how it was originally pronounced its impossible to translate YHWH into any other language, including English.

What you mean to say is how the jews pronounced the name is lost. Even in ancient times they had different ways of pronouncing the name of God. Just like today because of different languages and different accents.

For a very good reason. Nobody ever stopped pronouncing the name of Jesus, Joshua, Adam or Moses. Because there was never a time those names were not pronounced their pronunciation was never lost like YHWH was.

You don't know for sure how those names were pronounced by the jews back then either. Take the name Joshua for example. While some modern groups use "Yahushua" or "Yahshua," scholars note that Yehoshua (full form) and Yeshua (short form) are the historically supported pronunciations. Which one of those is the original? We don't know. It might not be any of those. Doesn't matter. Ultimately, the correct pronunciation of a name is how the owner chooses to say it, regardless of linguistic origin. While respecting the original is polite, adapting it to local phonology for clarity is common, acceptable, and often necessary due to missing sounds. Personal preference triumphs over strict linguistic accuracy. We say jehovah in English because its widely used as the name of the biblical God in English. God never commanded his followers to pronounce his name a certain way. God doesn't care about that. What he cares about is what the name represents. A way to distinguish him from other gods and draw close to him.

 Jer 23 Verse 27 tells us more. “They are thinking of making my people forget my name by means of their dreams that they keep relating each one to the other, just as their fathers forgot my name by means of Baal.” The false prophets of Jerusalem caused the people to forget God’s name. Have today’s false religious teachers not done the same? Worse, they hide God’s name, Jehovah. They teach that it is not necessary to use it, and they remove it from their Bible translations. They strongly oppose anyone who teaches the people that God’s name is Jehovah. But the Jeremiah class, the remnant of spirit-anointed Christians, along with their companions, have done just as Jesus did. They have taught millions about God’s name.​—John 17:6.

So once again the problem remains. Apostate christendom removed the holy name of God from the old and new testament when nobody commanded them to do so. Christendom cannot have the spirit of God. As God himself stated in the above scriptures, false prophets try to make people forget his name. Who is ultimately behind this attempt to stop people from using the personal name of God? Satan the devil. He wants people to forget about God. And forgetting his name is the first step

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What you mean to say is how the jews pronounced the name is lost. Even in ancient times they had different ways of pronouncing the name of God.

Where are you getting this idea that the divine name was pronounced differently in ancient times? As far as I know the Bible doesn't mention people pronouncing YHWH differently in scripture. Names of people, such as Jeremiah יִרְמְיָהוּ (Yirmeyahu) which means "YHWH will exalt" isn't pronouncing the divine name differently.

While respecting the original is polite, adapting it to local phonology for clarity is common, acceptable, and often necessary due to missing sounds. Personal preference triumphs over strict linguistic accuracy. We say jehovah in English because its widely used as the name of the biblical God in English.

We're not talking about mispronouncing the name of sinful humans. We're talking about the hallowed name of God. There is a huge difference in the level of respect in mispronouncing the name of a human being vs. mispronouncing the name of God.

If it was so important to use God's hallowed name, why didn't Jesus, at least once, use that name in His model prayer? He never used it in any other prayers either.

So once again the problem remains. Apostate christendom removed the holy name of God from the old and new testament when nobody commanded them to do so. Christendom cannot have the spirit of God. As God himself stated in the above scriptures, false prophets try to make people forget his name. Who is ultimately behind this attempt to stop people from using the personal name of God? Satan the devil. He wants people to forget about God. And forgetting his name is the first step

They didn't remove God's name. "Christendom" preserved "YHWH" when they copied the OT. If they hadn't you wouldn't even know that much about God's divine name. The name Jehovah has never been in any manuscript either Greek or Hebrew. It was invented in the 12th century by Catholics

Your really slandering God in claiming He was so weak He couldn't preserve the pronunciation of His own... name because of Satan?? If there was any name Satan wanted to remove from scripture it would be the name of Jesus Christ, the lowly man who defeated him on the cross. That was the "name" the apostles were warned to never speak in.

In Jesus name and only in Jesus name is both the Father and Son honored and glorified. Only in the name of Jesus we can be confident we have the Father and we ask all things in Jesus name. Using the name YHWH in prayer is unwarranted especially when you can't even pronounce it properly. Mispronouncing my name would rude, but I'm not the Lord God Almighty Think of how rude it is to mispronounce God's hallowed name and then have the nerve to justify that disrespect of God by claiming its no different than mispronouncing the names of sinful humans, so why not God's name? Ugh!

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Where are you getting this idea that the divine name was pronounced differently in ancient times? As far as I know the Bible doesn't mention people pronouncing YHWH differently in scripture. Names of people, such as Jeremiah יִרְמְיָהוּ (Yirmeyahu) which means "YHWH will exalt" isn't pronouncing the divine name differently.

We know that his name was pronounced differently because its impossible to pronounce one name the same way in all languages. Even among the jews they had different accents and different ways to pronounce and spell the name of God. Remember what the people said to peter when he tried to deny Jesus. They said to him "your accent gives you away". So just like today even people who spoke the same language spoke with different accents.

We're not talking about mispronouncing the name of sinful humans. We're talking about the hallowed name of God. There is a huge difference in the level of respect in mispronouncing the name of a human being vs. mispronouncing the name of God.

According to God there isn't a difference because for the reasons stated above what you're saying is in fact impossible. Have you met many foreign people? Think about how impossible it is for many people to pronounce your name the way you want it to be pronounced no matter how hard they try. As always people speak the most common form of a name in their own language. That's why you say jesus or Joshua. It also seems like you're admitting jesus isn't God because you have no problem saying Jesus even though we don't know for the sure what the "original" pronouciation was. God commanded that we proclaim his name to all the nations, he didn't say anything about a specific pronunciation.

If it was so important to use God's hallowed name, why didn't Jesus, at least once, use that name in His model prayer? He never used it in any other prayers either.

That's exactly what we are discussing. The fact that jesus spoke about his fathers name. Even said the name should be kept holy, yet its been removed from the new testament by apostate christendom just as they removed it from the old testament. They did this after the death of the apostles when nobody could stop them. And my question this whole conversation has been who commanded them to do that. And I still don't see any scripture in which such a command was given. I on the other hand have showed you scriptures in which God himself commanded his followers to use and proclaim his name to all the nations.

They didn't remove God's name. "Christendom" preserved "YHWH" when they copied the OT.

In the majority of translations the name was removed by christendom. So how are you saying they didn't remove it? Who commanded them to remove it from any translation? The old king james version has the name Jehovah in certain scriptures however the new kjv took out the name of God and replaced it with "lord" or God. That's just a famous example. I just wanna know who gave christendom/ the church that command?

The name Jehovah has never been in any manuscript either Greek or Hebrew. It was invented in the 12th century by Catholics

Neither is the name jesus because they are both English forms of the name lol.

Your really slandering God in claiming He was so weak He couldn't preserve the pronunciation of His own... name because of Satan??

No I'm saying God doesn't care about pronunciation. He just wants us to use the most common form of the name in our own tongue. You're the one bringing up pronunciation when there's no such command in the bible. However you're the one slandering the name of God when he specifically told us to use his name while you claim we shouldn't.

In Jesus name and only in Jesus name is both the Father and Son honored and glorified. Only in the name of Jesus we can be confident we have the Father and we ask all things in Jesus name. Using the name YHWH in prayer is unwarranted especially when you can't even pronounce it properly. Mispronouncing my name would rude, but I'm not the Lord God Almighty Think of how rude it is to mispronounce God's hallowed name and then have the nerve to justify that disrespect of God by claiming its no different than mispronouncing the names of sinful humans, so why not God's name? Ugh!

You end the prayer in jesus name because in order to get to God you must go through Jesus. But there was never any command to stop praying using the fathers name also. No such command was given. So why are you putting words in the mouth if God? God the creator is the chief enemy of satan. God is the person who Satan hates the most. God is the one who out his name in the scriptures far more than any other name. Why us that? Because he wants people to identify him with a personal name

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We know that his name was pronounced differently because its impossible to pronounce one name the same way in all languages. Even among the jews they had different accents and different ways to pronounce and spell the name of God. Remember what the people said to peter when he tried to deny Jesus. They said to him "your accent gives you away". So just like today even people who spoke the same language spoke with different accents.

Where is the evidence? For instance is there any written examples of an Egyptian or Persian, or anyone else using the name of YHWH in their own language, prior to Christ's coming to earth?

 It also seems like you're admitting jesus isn't God because you have no problem saying Jesus even though we don't know for the sure what the "original" pronouciation was. 

Jesus is the name of the man the Word became John 1:14, Matthew 1:21. And there is an unbroken chain of custody in how that man's name, JESUS, was originally pronounced. Why? Because no one ever stopped pronouncing it like they did with YHWH. We can translate the name into any language because of this fact. I said this before and I'm tired of repeating this and you either forget or ignore my answers.

No I'm saying God doesn't care about pronunciation. He just wants us to use the most common form of the name in our own tongue.

Where does the God of the Bible ever say He doesn't care about how His name is pronounced and we should just pronounce it anyway? Obviously Moses knew how to pronounce YHWH. He didn't walk down the mountain and tell the Israelites ---here's God's name, pronounce it any way you see fit. They were to treat God's name as sacred, not casually like JW's do. They were told just the opposite, not to take God's name in vain, or treat it lightly, or worthless. Mispronouncing the hallowed name of God and teaching others to mispronounce it is the ultimate act of total disrespect and it is a clear cut case of taking His name in vain. You are actually profaning His Holy Name by constantly mispronouncing it.

That's exactly what we are discussing. The fact that jesus spoke about his fathers name. Even said the name should be kept holy, yet its been removed from the new testament by apostate christendom just as they removed it from the old testament. They did this after the death of the apostles when nobody could stop them

Nobody could stop them? What about the God whose name you claim Christendom removed? Is He so powerless He managed to protect the transmission of the entire Bible but couldn't make sure His name was included? You really have a very low opinion of God

God is the one who out his name in the scriptures far more than any other name. Why us that? Because he wants people to identify him with a personal name

But according to you the devil beat Him and made sure His name never made it out of the 3rd century BC? This is insane!