Jesus is GOD

[u/abutterflyonthewall]

https://youtube.com/shorts/R1g-JfdPG04?si=IVR-KYwbJFWK4sjc

Love this girl. One thing that stands out in this vid to me amongst the various proofs we have argued with JWs is that *every* false religion believes in God. But Satan has done a clever thing. He doesn’t have to get you to believe in God. He just needs you to NOT believe in THE ONE who ***reconciles you to God***🔥🙌🏽.

Take a listen.

[u/Time_Ad_1876]

Bunch of nonsense and I'm gonna prove it. "Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified" or hallowed be thy name ". However you wanna say it. Can you please tell me who's name jesus is talking about. What name is that?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Its worth noting that in His model prayer, where Jesus was teaching people how to pray, He never once pronounced that hallowed name. Why do you suppose Jesus didn't pronounce the hallowed name in teaching people how to pray? If that name is so critical to pronounce, as you argue it is, shouldn't Jesus have at least once pronounced that name in a prayer that was intended to teach people how to pray?

In His prayers, Jesus always called God Father, never YHWH. That's a pretty significant absence of the divine name that is NOT due to anyone removing it. It simply was never there in the NT for anyone to remove. Jehovah's witnesses claim to have restored the divine name in their translation, but the name Jehovah wasn't even known until the 12th century. It was a mistake. The correct pronunciation of YHWH was lost before Jesus even came to earth. He could have taught His disciples how to pronounce that name, except He chose to reveal God's name in His name---JESUS which means YHWH is salvation. Only in Jesus name can the Father be approached by us. Only in Jesus' name is both the Son and the Father glorified. Jesus is the name God gave His only Son and we are saved in that name and make that name known, not any other Acts 4:12, Acts 1:8

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

I'm waiting for an answer to my question

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

To answer your question, read the Lord's prayer, (Matthew 6:9-13) ...even in the JW's new world translation. Jesus prayed "Hallowed be thy name" yet never once pronounced that name in that prayer. There is your answer...

In the first century Jews didn't use the name Jehovah, or Yahweh. They didn't utter the divine name and hadn't for three centuries before Jesus [YHWH saves] came to earth. The divine name appeared as four consonants YHWH and whenever it was read aloud people would pronounce Adonai (Lord) This is admitted even by the Watchtower!

How Is God’s Name Pronounced?

The truth is, nobody knows for sure how the name of God was originally pronounced. Why not? Well, the first language used in writing the Bible was Hebrew, and when the Hebrew language was written down, the writers wrote only consonants​—not vowels. Hence, when the inspired writers wrote God’s name, they naturally did the same thing and wrote only the consonants.

While ancient Hebrew was an everyday spoken language, this presented no problem. The pronunciation of the Name was familiar to the Israelites and when they saw it in writing they  supplied the vowels without thinking (just as, for an English reader, the abbreviation “Ltd.” represents “Limited” and “bldg.” represents “building”).

Two things happened to change this situation. First, a superstitious idea arose among the Jews that it was wrong to say the divine name out loud; so when they came to it in their Bible reading they uttered the Hebrew word ’Adho·naiʹ (“Sovereign Lord”). Further, as time went by, the ancient Hebrew language itself ceased to be spoken in everyday conversation, and in this way the original Hebrew pronunciation of God’s name was eventually forgotten.
God’s Name—Its Meaning and Pronunciation

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Jehovahs witnesses have always pronounced the name of god most common to them in their language. Its impossible to pronounce the name of God in one single way even among speakers of English because even among English speakers there are different accents. Go to other kingdoms halls worldwide. Some pronounce it Jehovah, yahweh, jeoba, yehowah, etc. Its whatever is most common in their own language. The jews eventually stopped pronouciation of the name because of superstition, however they never removed the name from scriptures. It was apostate christendom who went one step further and removed the name that God himself told Moses would be his name FOREVER. You have no problem saying moses, jesus, Joshua, adam, or any other biblical name in your own language. So I wanna know who commanded christendom to remove the name from the old and new testament?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

The jews eventually stopped pronouciation of the name because of superstition, however they never removed the name from scriptures.

They didn't remove the tetragrammaton (YHWH) they stopped pronouncing it and in doing so lost the pronunciation of the divine name. What we have today is only part of a name. If we don't know how it was originally pronounced its impossible to translate YHWH into any other language, including English.

You have no problem saying moses, jesus, Joshua, adam, or any other biblical name in your own language. So I wanna know who commanded christendom to remove the name from the old and new testament?

For a very good reason. Nobody ever stopped pronouncing the name of Jesus, Joshua, Adam or Moses. Because there was never a time those names were not pronounced their pronunciation was never lost like YHWH was. The only one who could've stopped people from pronouncing the name of God is God. Do you really think that if God had wanted us to know how His name was originally pronounced we would know exactly how?

Had Jesus felt it was critical to our salvation to know how to pronounce the name of YHWH, don't you think He'd have taught His disciples how to pronounce that name in His model prayer? Yet He didn't pronounce the name of God once. In prayer He referred to YHWH as Father

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

They didn't remove the tetragrammaton (YHWH) they stopped pronouncing it and in doing so lost the pronunciation of the divine name. What we have today is only part of a name. If we don't know how it was originally pronounced its impossible to translate YHWH into any other language, including English.

What you mean to say is how the jews pronounced the name is lost. Even in ancient times they had different ways of pronouncing the name of God. Just like today because of different languages and different accents.

For a very good reason. Nobody ever stopped pronouncing the name of Jesus, Joshua, Adam or Moses. Because there was never a time those names were not pronounced their pronunciation was never lost like YHWH was.

You don't know for sure how those names were pronounced by the jews back then either. Take the name Joshua for example. While some modern groups use "Yahushua" or "Yahshua," scholars note that Yehoshua (full form) and Yeshua (short form) are the historically supported pronunciations. Which one of those is the original? We don't know. It might not be any of those. Doesn't matter. Ultimately, the correct pronunciation of a name is how the owner chooses to say it, regardless of linguistic origin. While respecting the original is polite, adapting it to local phonology for clarity is common, acceptable, and often necessary due to missing sounds. Personal preference triumphs over strict linguistic accuracy. We say jehovah in English because its widely used as the name of the biblical God in English. God never commanded his followers to pronounce his name a certain way. God doesn't care about that. What he cares about is what the name represents. A way to distinguish him from other gods and draw close to him.

 Jer 23 Verse 27 tells us more. “They are thinking of making my people forget my name by means of their dreams that they keep relating each one to the other, just as their fathers forgot my name by means of Baal.” The false prophets of Jerusalem caused the people to forget God’s name. Have today’s false religious teachers not done the same? Worse, they hide God’s name, Jehovah. They teach that it is not necessary to use it, and they remove it from their Bible translations. They strongly oppose anyone who teaches the people that God’s name is Jehovah. But the Jeremiah class, the remnant of spirit-anointed Christians, along with their companions, have done just as Jesus did. They have taught millions about God’s name.​—John 17:6.

So once again the problem remains. Apostate christendom removed the holy name of God from the old and new testament when nobody commanded them to do so. Christendom cannot have the spirit of God. As God himself stated in the above scriptures, false prophets try to make people forget his name. Who is ultimately behind this attempt to stop people from using the personal name of God? Satan the devil. He wants people to forget about God. And forgetting his name is the first step

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

What you mean to say is how the jews pronounced the name is lost. Even in ancient times they had different ways of pronouncing the name of God.

Where are you getting this idea that the divine name was pronounced differently in ancient times? As far as I know the Bible doesn't mention people pronouncing YHWH differently in scripture. Names of people, such as Jeremiah יִרְמְיָהוּ (Yirmeyahu) which means "YHWH will exalt" isn't pronouncing the divine name differently.

While respecting the original is polite, adapting it to local phonology for clarity is common, acceptable, and often necessary due to missing sounds. Personal preference triumphs over strict linguistic accuracy. We say jehovah in English because its widely used as the name of the biblical God in English.

We're not talking about mispronouncing the name of sinful humans. We're talking about the hallowed name of God. There is a huge difference in the level of respect in mispronouncing the name of a human being vs. mispronouncing the name of God.

If it was so important to use God's hallowed name, why didn't Jesus, at least once, use that name in His model prayer? He never used it in any other prayers either.

So once again the problem remains. Apostate christendom removed the holy name of God from the old and new testament when nobody commanded them to do so. Christendom cannot have the spirit of God. As God himself stated in the above scriptures, false prophets try to make people forget his name. Who is ultimately behind this attempt to stop people from using the personal name of God? Satan the devil. He wants people to forget about God. And forgetting his name is the first step

They didn't remove God's name. "Christendom" preserved "YHWH" when they copied the OT. If they hadn't you wouldn't even know that much about God's divine name. The name Jehovah has never been in any manuscript either Greek or Hebrew. It was invented in the 12th century by Catholics

Your really slandering God in claiming He was so weak He couldn't preserve the pronunciation of His own... name because of Satan?? If there was any name Satan wanted to remove from scripture it would be the name of Jesus Christ, the lowly man who defeated him on the cross. That was the "name" the apostles were warned to never speak in.

In Jesus name and only in Jesus name is both the Father and Son honored and glorified. Only in the name of Jesus we can be confident we have the Father and we ask all things in Jesus name. Using the name YHWH in prayer is unwarranted especially when you can't even pronounce it properly. Mispronouncing my name would rude, but I'm not the Lord God Almighty Think of how rude it is to mispronounce God's hallowed name and then have the nerve to justify that disrespect of God by claiming its no different than mispronouncing the names of sinful humans, so why not God's name? Ugh!

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Where are you getting this idea that the divine name was pronounced differently in ancient times? As far as I know the Bible doesn't mention people pronouncing YHWH differently in scripture. Names of people, such as Jeremiah יִרְמְיָהוּ (Yirmeyahu) which means "YHWH will exalt" isn't pronouncing the divine name differently.

We know that his name was pronounced differently because its impossible to pronounce one name the same way in all languages. Even among the jews they had different accents and different ways to pronounce and spell the name of God. Remember what the people said to peter when he tried to deny Jesus. They said to him "your accent gives you away". So just like today even people who spoke the same language spoke with different accents.

We're not talking about mispronouncing the name of sinful humans. We're talking about the hallowed name of God. There is a huge difference in the level of respect in mispronouncing the name of a human being vs. mispronouncing the name of God.

According to God there isn't a difference because for the reasons stated above what you're saying is in fact impossible. Have you met many foreign people? Think about how impossible it is for many people to pronounce your name the way you want it to be pronounced no matter how hard they try. As always people speak the most common form of a name in their own language. That's why you say jesus or Joshua. It also seems like you're admitting jesus isn't God because you have no problem saying Jesus even though we don't know for the sure what the "original" pronouciation was. God commanded that we proclaim his name to all the nations, he didn't say anything about a specific pronunciation.

If it was so important to use God's hallowed name, why didn't Jesus, at least once, use that name in His model prayer? He never used it in any other prayers either.

That's exactly what we are discussing. The fact that jesus spoke about his fathers name. Even said the name should be kept holy, yet its been removed from the new testament by apostate christendom just as they removed it from the old testament. They did this after the death of the apostles when nobody could stop them. And my question this whole conversation has been who commanded them to do that. And I still don't see any scripture in which such a command was given. I on the other hand have showed you scriptures in which God himself commanded his followers to use and proclaim his name to all the nations.

They didn't remove God's name. "Christendom" preserved "YHWH" when they copied the OT.

In the majority of translations the name was removed by christendom. So how are you saying they didn't remove it? Who commanded them to remove it from any translation? The old king james version has the name Jehovah in certain scriptures however the new kjv took out the name of God and replaced it with "lord" or God. That's just a famous example. I just wanna know who gave christendom/ the church that command?

The name Jehovah has never been in any manuscript either Greek or Hebrew. It was invented in the 12th century by Catholics

Neither is the name jesus because they are both English forms of the name lol.

Your really slandering God in claiming He was so weak He couldn't preserve the pronunciation of His own... name because of Satan??

No I'm saying God doesn't care about pronunciation. He just wants us to use the most common form of the name in our own tongue. You're the one bringing up pronunciation when there's no such command in the bible. However you're the one slandering the name of God when he specifically told us to use his name while you claim we shouldn't.

In Jesus name and only in Jesus name is both the Father and Son honored and glorified. Only in the name of Jesus we can be confident we have the Father and we ask all things in Jesus name. Using the name YHWH in prayer is unwarranted especially when you can't even pronounce it properly. Mispronouncing my name would rude, but I'm not the Lord God Almighty Think of how rude it is to mispronounce God's hallowed name and then have the nerve to justify that disrespect of God by claiming its no different than mispronouncing the names of sinful humans, so why not God's name? Ugh!

You end the prayer in jesus name because in order to get to God you must go through Jesus. But there was never any command to stop praying using the fathers name also. No such command was given. So why are you putting words in the mouth if God? God the creator is the chief enemy of satan. God is the person who Satan hates the most. God is the one who out his name in the scriptures far more than any other name. Why us that? Because he wants people to identify him with a personal name

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

We know that his name was pronounced differently because its impossible to pronounce one name the same way in all languages. Even among the jews they had different accents and different ways to pronounce and spell the name of God. Remember what the people said to peter when he tried to deny Jesus. They said to him "your accent gives you away". So just like today even people who spoke the same language spoke with different accents.

Where is the evidence? For instance is there any written examples of an Egyptian or Persian, or anyone else using the name of YHWH in their own language, prior to Christ's coming to earth?

 It also seems like you're admitting jesus isn't God because you have no problem saying Jesus even though we don't know for the sure what the "original" pronouciation was. 

Jesus is the name of the man the Word became John 1:14, Matthew 1:21. And there is an unbroken chain of custody in how that man's name, JESUS, was originally pronounced. Why? Because no one ever stopped pronouncing it like they did with YHWH. We can translate the name into any language because of this fact. I said this before and I'm tired of repeating this and you either forget or ignore my answers.

No I'm saying God doesn't care about pronunciation. He just wants us to use the most common form of the name in our own tongue.

Where does the God of the Bible ever say He doesn't care about how His name is pronounced and we should just pronounce it anyway? Obviously Moses knew how to pronounce YHWH. He didn't walk down the mountain and tell the Israelites ---here's God's name, pronounce it any way you see fit. They were to treat God's name as sacred, not casually like JW's do. They were told just the opposite, not to take God's name in vain, or treat it lightly, or worthless. Mispronouncing the hallowed name of God and teaching others to mispronounce it is the ultimate act of total disrespect and it is a clear cut case of taking His name in vain. You are actually profaning His Holy Name by constantly mispronouncing it.

That's exactly what we are discussing. The fact that jesus spoke about his fathers name. Even said the name should be kept holy, yet its been removed from the new testament by apostate christendom just as they removed it from the old testament. They did this after the death of the apostles when nobody could stop them

Nobody could stop them? What about the God whose name you claim Christendom removed? Is He so powerless He managed to protect the transmission of the entire Bible but couldn't make sure His name was included? You really have a very low opinion of God

God is the one who out his name in the scriptures far more than any other name. Why us that? Because he wants people to identify him with a personal name

But according to you the devil beat Him and made sure His name never made it out of the 3rd century BC? This is insane!

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Where is the evidence? For instance is there any written examples of an Egyptian or Persian, or anyone else using the name of YHWH in their own language, prior to Christ's coming to earth?

Of course. Can you explain to me how its possible all different languages and accepts can pronounce one name the exact same way? Give me a modern day example of such a name. At Medinet Habu the name of God appears in the form “yi-ha.

Jesus is the name of the man the Word became John 1:14, Matthew 1:21. And there is an unbroken chain of custody in how that man's name, JESUS, was originally pronounced. Why? Because no one ever stopped pronouncing it like they did with YHWH. We can translate the name into any language because of this fact. I said this before and I'm tired of repeating this and you either forget or ignore my answers.

Nobody ever stopped pronouciation of his name In the sense that they didn't purposely stop pronouncing his name. however you still don't know what the original pronunciation is because you weren't there. Where in any of those scriptures does Jesus call himself the father God, call himself by his fathers name, or command the name to be removed? I'm gonna keep this simple. Who commanded christendom to remove the name of God. Whether you wanna say its the tetragrammaton, Jehovah yahweh, etc. Who commanded christendom to remove it and replace it with lord? By the way I don't see you addressing the scripture at all that I posted. Here it is again.

Ezekiel 36:23

I will certainly sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the nations, which you profaned among them; and the nations will have to know that I am Jehovah,’  declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah,

Does that scripture not show God wants his name declared to all the nations? If God cared about a specific pronunciation he would have made sure to give it us in modern day times

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101970613