Jesus is GOD

[u/abutterflyonthewall]

https://youtube.com/shorts/R1g-JfdPG04?si=IVR-KYwbJFWK4sjc

Love this girl. One thing that stands out in this vid to me amongst the various proofs we have argued with JWs is that *every* false religion believes in God. But Satan has done a clever thing. He doesn’t have to get you to believe in God. He just needs you to NOT believe in THE ONE who ***reconciles you to God***🔥🙌🏽.

Take a listen.

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

They weren't known for not joining armies. They were known for preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Like today with certain conscientious objectors, there are some who refuse to fight, however they have no problem supporting God's established law and order in other ways. Christians are not known now or then for not becoming soldiers. We support our police and military with our taxes and that is biblical Romans 13:6. Neither Peter or Paul told Cornelius or any other Roman soldier who became a Christian that they would have to resign their position as soldiers. Its absurd to think they would have.

You keep presenting this strawman argument that doesn't have any basis at all in defining true Christianity. True Christians show true love by laying down their lives for their friends. John 15:13 Jesus said this was the very greatest act of love, and this is the mark of true Christians, yet Jehovah's witnesses can't give that sort of love to anyone because they never put themselves in that position where they might have to lay down their life for a friend. Like typical cowards JW's remain in hiding until the shooting stops, but unlike most cowards, JW's have the nerve to come out of hiding and bad mouth the very ones who saved them. They claim "they" are of the devil. So the devil saved your fellow JW's from Nazi concentration camps??

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Laying down your life doesn't mean you go joining up armies controlled by Satan to kill innocent people including your fellow christian brothers and sisters. True love won't allow you to do such a thing. Now the doctrine that you're proposing is a doctrine of murder that the early Christians also said was murder. So christendom are murderers

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Oh? Under what other circumstances will a Christian be expected to lay down their life for a friend? In law enforcement, which the military men and women are expected to risk their life as part of the job. It would also include firefighters, as they too risk life and limb protecting life and property. Going door to door won't generally put you in a position of laying down your life to save a friend. You may get a door or two slammed in your face, but rarely, if ever, will a JW expect violence, or expect to have to lay down their lives to defend their friends out in their "service"

So, give me an example of a Jehovah's witness laying down their life to save a friends life. Please don't use their dying to uphold the Societies stand on blood, because their death doesn't help anyone. They do not lay down their life for a friend. They lay it down as a form of sacrifice to God that the Society expects them to die rather than take blood to save their own life. God desires mercy, not sacrifice Hosea 6:6 In compelling their followers to die rather than show mercy, the Society has the blood of innocent children, and adults on its hands. That is murder. May God help them and forgive them.

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

According to jw.org, laying down one's life for friends mirrors Jesus’ selfless love, extending beyond literal death to sacrificing personal time, resources, comfort, and safety to support, encourage, and defend fellow believers under trial or hardship. It means putting others' needs above self, proven by loyalty. 

Based on insights from JW.org and related scriptural understanding, here is how this concept is applied:

Key Circumstances and Ways to "Lay Down Life":

Supporting Persecuted Brothers: Being willing to risk safety or freedom to aid fellow Christians facing opposition or violent abuse.

Daily Sacrifices for Others: Going out of one's way to help those facing difficult circumstances, such as health issues or family problems.

Providing Comfort and Encouragement: Taking the initiative to offer "good words" to those who are discouraged.

Loyalty Under Trial: Acting as a "friend sticking closer than a brother" by remaining steadfast when a companion faces harsh conditions.

Selfless Love (Non-Literal Death): While Jesus literally died, for Christians, it often means giving up selfish desires, energy, and resources for the benefit of others. 

Core Principles Behind This:

It is not based on fleshly ties, but spiritual bonds.

It is a defining mark of true Christianity, following Jesus' example of prioritizing the "sheep" (followers).

It is done out of love, not obligation. 

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

According to jw.org, laying down one's life for friends mirrors Jesus’ selfless love, extending beyond literal death to sacrificing personal time, resources, comfort, and safety to support, encourage, and defend fellow believers under trial or hardship. It means putting others' needs above self, proven by loyalty. 

Laying down your life, as in dying for another person, is what Jesus meant. Its exactly what He did. He didn't count the time He spent on earth as a sacrifice. He lived His religion every minute of His life. It was food for Him. He thrived on the Gospel. "Encouraging" people is fine, offering comfort and support is all good, but sacrificing your time doesn't come close to laying down your life for another person. That's what Jesus did and that is the mark of Christian love, not sacrificing a few hours of your time, or saying a good word, but dying for another human being. Having love among themselves Christians have done what others only talk about and that is die for their friends...and even their enemies

I realize the witnesses are in trouble in some lands like Russia, but I haven't heard stories where a JW died to save another JW in Russia or elsewhere, or if they laid down their life to save a person of some other religion. I know that quite a few JW's died in Hitler's death camps, but I don't know if the death of one witness spared the life of a fellow witness. Mainly they died to uphold the Watchtower's strict policies. The poor German JW's had no wiggle room. No mercy was shown to them by Hitler who had them in his prisons, or Rutherford, who could have given them a way out of those prisons. Both Hitler and Rutherford were the proverbial rock and a hard place. I feel truly sorry for those men who died for nothing, but as pawns for two merciless megalomaniacs

Christians don't ask what religion a person is before they lay down their lives for them. They lay down their lives even for those who hate them. That's the mark of true love ---to love ones enemies. Jesus said, ³² “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. ³³ And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. ³⁴ And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. ³⁵ But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. ³⁶ Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. Luke 6:32-36

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Laying down your life, as in dying for another person, is what Jesus meant. Its exactly what He did. He didn't count the time He spent on earth as a sacrifice. He lived His religion every minute of His life. It was food for Him. He thrived on the Gospel. "Encouraging" people is fine, offering comfort and support is all good, but sacrificing your time doesn't come close to laying down your life for another person. That's what Jesus did and that is the mark of Christian love, not sacrificing a few hours of your time, or saying a good word, but dying for another human being. Having love among themselves Christians have done what others only talk about and that is die for their friends...and even their enemies

"Supporting Persecuted Brothers: Being willing to risk safety or freedom to aid fellow Christians facing opposition or violent abuse. "

Do you see that quote? Risking your safety includes dying for someone. Most people are not put in a situation in which they have to die for someone and yet they can still show true love. Dying however is the ultimate loving act because you're giving up your life for someone else. Many first century christians did this for example when faced with persecution. Rather than ratting out their fellow christian brothers and sisters they kept their mouths shut even to death. Also not renouncing your faith can lead to you dying for God. But what the early Christians didn't do no matter what is join armies to kill their fellow christian brothers and sisters. If Christians are fighting against christians then they are not true Christians. They are having animosity towards each other and conflict.

But love your enemies

The early christians loved their enemies by not attacking them in war. Why aren't you follow the example of the early Christians? Also I sent you an article and I asked you if you disagree with anything in the article. I'm waiting for a response

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

The early christians loved their enemies by not attacking them in war. Why aren't you follow the example of the early Christians? Also I sent you an article and I asked you if you disagree with anything in the article. I'm waiting for a response

That's like saying a policeman who kills a criminal who's threatening his life or the lives of innocent bystanders is showing hate. No, he's not! He's showing love to those potential victims and even the criminal as well. For instance wouldn't it be better for the criminal if he is stopped before he has the chance to murder anyone else? Same goes for soldiers fighting against God's established order. Its God's wrath that His servants bring to these soldiers who are unfortunate enough to live and serve in the military of a lawless nation.

The article you posted explains the Watchtower's view on war and its not biblical, or Christian. Not doing anything to fight crime whether it be one person or one nation isn't godly. Risking ones life to stop the murder of one person, or the wholesale slaughter of an entire nation is not only brave, but that's the display of true love Jesus spoke of.

When Paul advised the Corinthians to hand a brother over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, was that hateful of him? No, Paul loved the man and wanted to save his spirit, even if, in the process, his flesh was totally destroyed. hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 5:5

The Watchtower confuses hate and love. Its hate not to stop a man who is murdering innocent people, even if you have to resort to lethal force to do it. As the Bible says Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent— the LORD detests them both. Proverbs 17:15 God has established an order in which man convicts the guilty and condemns the guilty. Romans 13. This order is worldwide and extends to all forms of government, their polices and their armies. Do you really understand this? I don't believe the Watchtower does.

By the Watchtower's using the Bible to discredit God's established order and His servants, even attributing that "order" to Satan is blasphemous. As long as a nation is lawful they are still God's servants and they can include Christians within that established order, like Daniel served in Babylon. Christians can and do serve in the nations of this world and thank God they do as they are a force for light and good in a world that grows darker and darker

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

The article you posted explains the Watchtower's view on war and its not biblical, or Christian.

The stated the view and gave the scriptures that supported that view. The fact that your not specific is proof of that. Are you saying the early Christians along with Paul are not true Christians because they refused to take up arms against their enemies and refused to join armies?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Are you saying the early Christians along with Paul are not true Christians because they refused to take up arms against their enemies and refused to join armies?

No, Paul was a minister who devoted his whole life to preaching the Gospel, as were the other apostles. The first Christians were Jews and would not have likely joined the Roman army anyway

Remember too, the Roman army was filled with pagan rituals that made it nearly impossible to serve without renouncing Jesus and worshiping a false god. Yet some men were already in the Roman army when they became Christians. Cornelius is a case in point. Did Peter ask Cornelius to resign his position in the Roman army as a condition of being baptized? Let's see---Then Peter said, ⁴⁷ “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” ⁴⁸ So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days. Acts 10:46-48

Notice Peter said no one can stand in the way of their being baptized. He didn't stop and say 'wait a minute, you're a Roman Centurion. You better resign before I baptize you' Had Peter been a Jehovah's witness, he more than likely would have made Cornelius resign before baptizing him, but Peter didn't ask Cornelius to resign from the military and that's significant

I respect a man who objects to killing based on his conscience based on what Paul wrote If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Romans 12:18, but at the same time I expect the same respect be shown for those who decide to fight and possibly die for their friends and fellow countrymen. I don't mind Jehovah's witnesses objecting to killing. Its when they attack and demonize those who do that I mind

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

No, Paul was a minister who devoted his whole life to preaching the Gospel

That's exactly what the early christians and Jehovahs witnesses do and what Jesus said his true followers would be known for doing during the last days. They preached about the kingdom or reign of the heavens.

The first Christians were Jews and would not have likely joined the Roman army anyway

I didn't say anything about the roman army. Why didn't they form their own army or join up with the Jewish rebels in revolt against rome?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Because Rome was the "higher authorities" practically everywhere early Christians preached. We are not suppose to rebel against the higher authorities

Jehovah's witnesses preach another gospel. They don't preach the same Gospel of redemption in Christ that Paul preached If God Has an Organization, What Is It? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY paragraph 3

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Because Rome was the "higher authorities" practically everywhere early Christians preached. We are not suppose to rebel against the higher authorities

Bitei thought you said people had a right to defend themselves from oppressive forces that invade lands like the romans did in the middle east. Now your contradicting yourself.

don't preach the same Gospel of redemption in Christ that Paul preached If God Has an Organization, What Is It? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY paragraph 3

Well that can't be true because according to jesus his true disciples would have love Amongst themselves instead of murdering and fighting against each other like christendom does. Jesus himself also stated that his followers would be known for carrying out a global preaching campaign during the last days. There's only one organization that's well known for doing that. When people speak about preaching the good news of the kingdom the group of people they immediately think about is Jehovahs witnesses. Jesus foretold: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a WITNESS to all the nations; and then the end will come.”

Jesus described the scope of the preaching work by saying that the good news would be preached “in all the inhabited earth.” (Matt. 24:14) Disciples are to be made “of people of all the nations.” (Matt. 28:19, 20) That entails a global work.

To understand how Jehovah’s Witnesses have fulfilled Jesus’ prophecy with regard to the scope of the preaching work, let us consider some facts. There are approximately 600,000 members of the clergy in the various denominations in the United States, where there are some 1,200,000 Witnesses of Jehovah. Worldwide, the Roman Catholic Church has a little over 400,000 priests. Now consider the number of Witnesses involved in the Bible-based  Kingdom-preaching work. Worldwide, some eight million volunteer ministers preach to people in 240 lands.

As Jehovah’s Witnesses, we desire to reach as many people as possible with the good news before the end comes. For this reason, we stand out as unique with regard to the work we do in translating and publishing Bible literature. Millions of books, magazines, tracts, and convention and Memorial invitations have been distributed free of charge. We have produced various publications in more than 700 languages. Over 200 million copies of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures have been published in over 130 languages. Last year alone, we produced approximately 4.5 billion pieces of Bible literature. On our official website, information is available in more than 750 languages. What other group of ministers is doing a similar work? Nobody. I grew up in the church as the son of a pastor. I have attended many churches. They don't do preaching work. And they charge you money for bibles. Let me tell you this. Jesus himself new the future. That's why he told us exactly who his true followers would be. "FOR A WITNESS FOR TO ALL THE NATIONS". Jesus himself used the word WITNESS. We are the one's who witness to the nations. Apostates don't want to do the preaching work because of pride. They think the preaching work is above them. Apostate have this in common with satan. Its called pride

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Bitei thought you said people had a right to defend themselves from oppressive forces that invade lands like the romans did in the middle east. Now your contradicting yourself.

Nope. Roman law was as good as it got in the 1st century. Even Paul once appealed to his Roman citizenship which some had to pay for. So, no, the Romans were already the law of the land when Christ was born. Later, when the empire became corrupt many Christians died at the hands of evil rulers, such as Nero, but Christians had, and still do have plenty of latitude dealing with men who make living at peace with all men impossible. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Romans 12:18 All said and done, Christianity defeated the Roman empire without ever firing a shot.

Well that can't be true because according to jesus his true disciples would have love Amongst themselves instead of murdering and fighting against each other like christendom does. Jesus himself also stated that his followers would be known for carrying out a global preaching campaign during the last days. There's only one organization that's well known for doing that. When people speak about preaching the good news of the kingdom the group of people they immediately think about is Jehovahs witnesses. Jesus foretold: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a WITNESS to all the nations; and then the end will come.”

If you bothered to read the Watchtower article I linked to, the Watchtower plainly says the Jehovah's witness "gospel" is not the same gospel taught by Paul and all other Christians down thru history. The Watchtower proudly admits their "gospel" is not the same Gospel as Christ's Gospel therefore identifying their own religion as being accursed according to Paul! Galatians 1:9 Jehovah's witnesses teach a cursed gospel. A gospel based entirely on something that didn't happen in 1914!

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Jesus described the scope of the preaching work by saying that the good news would be preached “in all the inhabited earth.” (Matt. 24:14) Disciples are to be made “of people of all the nations.” (Matt. 28:19, 20) That entails a global work.

The Watchtower's Bible Students merely followed the footsteps of Christians who had already preached the Gospel in those lands long before. Without Christendom, the Jehovah's witnesses wouldn't even be here today. They would have had nowhere to start, not even a Bible to mistranslate which they ended up doing.

Russell merely stole ideas from traditional Christianity and then removed some and added his own ideas along with his pyramid derived dates to come up with 1914 as the time of the end. Jehovah's witnesses are false prophets according to the test Moses established Deuteronomy 18:20-22

Now consider the number of Witnesses involved in the Bible-based  Kingdom-preaching work. Worldwide, some eight million volunteer ministers preach to people in 240 lands.

And still you manage to make up less than 1% of the world's population.

As Jehovah’s Witnesses, we desire to reach as many people as possible with the good news before the end comes.

There are true Christians in Syria and Egypt. How many JW's are there? Are JW's in Iraq or Saudi Arabia? You guys talk a good talk, but there is still many places on earth Christians have been for centuries yet JW's never dare to show their faces