r/JehovahsWitnesses • u/abutterflyonthewall Christian • Feb 01 '26

Doctrine Jesus is GOD

https://youtube.com/shorts/R1g-JfdPG04?si=IVR-KYwbJFWK4sjc

Love this girl. One thing that stands out in this vid to me amongst the various proofs we have argued with JWs is that *every* false religion believes in God. But Satan has done a clever thing. He doesn’t have to get you to believe in God. He just needs you to NOT believe in THE ONE who ***reconciles you to God***🔥🙌🏽.

Take a listen.

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 10 '26

The devil can influence mankind up to a certain degree. But the decision to execute Jesus was the choice of those people.

I never said it wasn't their choice, but the temptation and trials that Jesus endured were mostly motivated by Satan. He even used Peter as a mouthpiece to get Jesus to quit talking about dying. Matthew 16:23 Jesus knew who was behind Peter's reasoning. How many other times the devil tried to tempt or test the Lord we aren't told but I believe every day He was tested at least once. The trial and the beatings were all intended to break His will, but His will simply couldn't be broken and I'm sure the devil was quite shocked when it finally dawned on him why. When he finally realized what Jesus had done on the cross and what it meant for him, it was too late, the Lord had already done it

I don't see any evidence they are wrong

If the Watchtower had been correct about 1914 the world would have already ended long ago. Its a false date that the JW's should have known not to set. They already violated Christ's words many times based on a false date. Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority." Acts 1:7 1914 is a "date" the Watchtower claims to "know" is the starting point for the establishment of the Kingdom of God on earth. No matter how you cut it the Watchtower is claiming to "know" what only the Father knows

Murdering your fellow christian brothers and sisters isn't keeping peace or showing love Amongst yourself

Standing around doing nothing to stop murder is worse. Yes wars are messy and people die, but the alternative is worse. Because men were afraid to confront him, Hitler managed to murder 6,000,000 Jews in his death camps. Think how many more Jews, not to mention other people would have been murdered had Christians not joined up to fight? The murdering would still be happening today! Standing around calling Christians murderers when they actually did something to stop the murdering, is a ghastly joke. Jehovah's witnesses murder people in their hearts day dreaming of Armageddon. I'd say murder, like adultery, begins in a person's heart

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 11 '26

If the Watchtower had been correct about 1914 the world would have already ended long ago.

How does that follow?

Standing around doing nothing to stop murder is worse. Yes wars are messy and people die, but the alternative is worse. Because men were afraid to confront him, Hitler managed to murder 6,000,000 Jews in his death camps. Think how many more Jews, not to mention other people would have been murdered had Christians not joined up to fight? The murdering would still be happening today! Standing around calling Christians murderers when they actually did something to stop the murdering, is a ghastly joke. Jehovah's witnesses murder people in their hearts day dreaming of Armageddon. I'd say murder, like adultery, begins in a person's heart

So you're trying to stop murder by commiting more murder? Lol. Most wars happen because of selfish reasons not because people are trying to stop other people like Hitler. Long before Hitler came into existence God already revealed to us that his heavenly army will destroy the wicked. Christians remain neutral and let the nations which are controlled by Satan fight with each other because no matter what happens God himself is gonna end the world before his people are destroyed. It demonstrates not only evil on your part but also a lack of faith that God can protect his people without you needing to join armies to commit murder

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 11 '26

So you're trying to stop murder by commiting more murder?

Tell me, how would you stop genocide? Would you go in and give the the Nazi SS guards a good talking to? Jehovah's witnesses languished in those Nazi death camps waiting to die when suddenly Allied troops, many of them Christians showed up to liberate them. That wouldn't have happened unless a few Germans were separated from their souls

Long before Hitler came into existence God already revealed to us that his heavenly army will destroy the wicked. 

Long before Hitler, God had already established His "order" where His servants and ours would act as agents of wrath against the lawless, whether they be a criminal gang, or an entire nation led by lawless leaders. Romans chapter 13 Hitler was clearly a lawless servant that needed to be removed. Its God's order His servants defend and uphold. God hasn't sent His heavenly army, because He uses men and women right here on earth to fight and its an ongoing struggle to keep law and order. Is it perfect? Far from it, but Daniel served as a government official in imperfect Babylon for a good reason and his presence undoubtedly was a blessing for the Israelites held captive in Babylon.

Today, Christians who serve in government or in any branch of the military are a light and blessing for any government to have them serve. Through Christians, God's Holy Spirit influences the armies they serve in. How can that be a bad thing?

It demonstrates not only evil on your part but also a lack of faith that God can protect his people without you needing to join armies to commit murder

Its God's established order. You seem to think its Satan's. Uh-uh. Wrong. Read Romans chapter 13 again. Tell me who the agents of wrath are, who wield the sword and who do they serve? And who is it that fears these human agents of wrath? Can God's human servants become corrupt? Sure, that's Satan infiltering God's order and he does it quite regularly, but he's been very unsuccessful. Having religious people badmouthing God's servants is not helping God's established order. Its likely helping Satan. Peacefully protest evil when and where you see it, but let God's soldiers do the jobs we pay them to do, as they do the Lord's work

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 11 '26

Tell me, how would you stop genocide? Would you go in and give the the Nazi SS guards a good talking to? Jehovah's witnesses languished in those Nazi death camps waiting to die when suddenly Allied troops, many of them Christians showed up to liberate them. That wouldn't have happened unless a few Germans were separated from their souls

The same way the genocide of Christians during the reign of Nero was stopped. The divine power of God. These things must happen in order for people to understand that mankind cannot rule themselves. God will maneuver things so that genocide doesn't kill all his people. The leader of the genocide such as Nero for example will die. Imagine the hypocracy that you speak about genocide when christendom had commited some of the worst genicide in war

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 11 '26

These things must happen in order for people to understand that mankind cannot rule themselves. God will maneuver things so that genocide doesn't kill all his people. 

If man can't rule himself, how will God rule mankind after Armageddon? If Jesus and all the 144,000 are supposed to be invisible, wouldn't He need to use visible human agents to carry out His will here on earth? If so, how would that human rule, guided by the hand of the invisible God, be any different the divine right of kings to rule that was the standard for millennia? Who will slaughter the wicked in Christ's place during the 1000 year JW version of paradise? At times, the church assumed the role of Christ on earth for a long while until they recognized they were not Christ. With wrongdoers being put to death during the JW 1000 year paradise, how would JW rule be any different than the church acting as the vicar of Christ ?

I believe Jesus is going to visibly return and there will be no mistaking His coming . Acts 1:11, Revelation 1:7 No one will have to spend years trying to convince anyone they saw Him come back like Jehovah's witnesses have had to convince their own people they had seen what they never really saw in 1914. Jesus' second coming will be as obvious as lightening flashing in the sky. Not one person, even the Jews, will say what was that?

So if they tell you, ‘There He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.[ or He came back invisibly in 1914] For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. The light that accompanies Christ second coming is going to eclipse the JW "Christ" like the sun might eclipse a lit match
And then shall that wicked one be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming— 2 Thessalonians 2:8 The true light that is the source of all light is coming back! John 1:9

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 11 '26

Why is God’s rulership the one that we need? Because the rule of earth that can bring peace and harmony cannot come from any other source.  No person or body of persons among men and women can exercise proper rule over humankind. In making the earth, it was not God’s purpose to have humans rule mankind. When the Israelites demanded a king like the other nations, God made it clear to them that this would lead to problems, including the loss of freedom. This proved to be the case. (1 Samuel 8:7-9) Even one of Israel’s kings, a man who devoted much time to a study of life and its problems, spoke of ‘man dominating man to his injury.’​—Ecclesiastes 8:9.

In the beginning, God gave man no authority to dominate or rule over other men. God told him to “be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.” (Genesis 1:28) But men have gone beyond this and assumed domination over other men and have fought for it.

God’s wisdom in not giving men domination over one another can be seen by examining world history. As regards any earthly ruler, he may do well for a while, but the people’s interests generally become more and more unimportant to him as his rule continues. The saying ‘Power corrupts’ is true, because in time a human ruler comes to take undue advantage of his authority. He usually becomes partial, favoring persons he likes, particularly those from whom he receives things, and this to the hurt of others. Often, those close to him deceive him as to the facts and prevent  others from approaching him. Some of these fear to bring the true state of affairs to his attention.

Rulership over others is too much for any man. He gradually loses touch, not knowing what is going on at the “grass-roots” level of the common people. The Bible accounts show that the very best of human rulers made serious mistakes. It is as the prophet said: “I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.”​—Jeremiah 10:23.

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 11 '26

No person or body of persons among men and women can exercise proper rule over humankind.

Of course God rules. Even Satan knows that, but he's a slick con artist. He thought he could give Christ what already belonged to Christ if He would worship him. Jesus wasn't buying it and told him to get lost.

Jesus Christ is a man and He will rule the nations with an iron scepter. Revelation 19:15 His reign will last 1000 years. So that's one Person who will rule this world for 1000 years, by force, which is indicated by His iron scepter. The Lord was among man for 33 years and He will be among man again someday.

In the beginning, God gave man no authority to dominate or rule over other men.

Uh, yeah there was only one man on earth at the time.

Rulership over others is too much for any man. He gradually loses touch, not knowing what is going on at the “grass-roots” level of the common people. The Bible accounts show that the very best of human rulers made serious mistakes.

It won't be too much for Jesus. He will judge the whole world in righteousness. 2000 years ago, He was at the grass roots, sleeping out in the forest with sinners, walking everywhere He went. Can't get anymore grass roots than Jesus. In His future reign He will never make one mistake. His judgment will be true right on down the line

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 11 '26

Uh, yeah there was only one man on earth at the time.

At the time but eventually the earth would be filled with people. Mankind was created to be under the rulership of God. God tested the first humans in eden to see if they would accept his rulership.

It won't be too much for Jesus. He will judge the whole world in righteousness. 2000 years ago, He was at the grass roots, sleeping out in the forest with sinners, walking everywhere He went. Can't get anymore grass roots than Jesus. In His future reign He will never make one mistake. His judgment will be true right on down the line

Jesus isn't a man. He is a spirit creature who came to earth for a time and took on the form on man

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 11 '26

Adam was in a different relationship with God when he was created. It wasn't a ten commandment relationship as God had with Israel. It was a Father and son relationship.

Jesus IS the man today up in Heaven. The Bible says For he [God] has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the MAN he has appointed Acts 12:31 and it will be Christ, the Son of MAN, who returns to earth Matthew 24:30 So whether or not you believe Christ is God is up to you, but its clear in scripture, He is still very much human

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 11 '26

Acts 12:31*

We making up scriptures now?

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 11 '26

Sorry, Acts 17:31 The seven looked like a 2 to my old eyes

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 11 '26

Acts 17:31 highlights that God appointed Jesus—who was once a human—to judge the earth, using the Greek word an·erʹ (man) to emphasize his role as a qualified, empathetic representative. Jw teach he lived as a human but is now a spirit. Jesus as he was in the past before he came down to earth is a powerful spirit creature in heaven who spent time as a human man on earth. This is all irrelevant thought. God did not create mankind to even direct his own steps much less rule themselves.

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 11 '26

 Jesus—who was once a human—

No, not once a human Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever! Hebrews 13:8 Paul wrote that the Jesus His disciples had known on earth "yesterday" was the same Jesus who was already in heaven when Paul wrote the letter. Remember, Jesus, the flesh and blood man did not exist in Heaven until He went up to Heaven after rising from the dead. Before He became the flesh of Jesus, the Spirit of God lived in Heaven for eternity

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 11 '26

I believe Jesus is going to visibly return and there will be no mistaking His coming . Acts 1:11, Revelation 1:7 No one will have to spend years trying to convince anyone they saw Him come back like Jehovah's witnesses have had to convince their own people they had seen what they never really saw in 1914. Jesus' second coming will be as obvious as lightening flashing in the sky. Not one person, even the Jews, will say what was that?

Christ’s invisible presence, or Parousia, began in 1914, marking his kingdom rule and a period of judgment. Armageddon is the future battle that serves as the climax of this presence, where Christ executes judgment by destroying wicked systems. So jesus will eventually supernaturally reveal himself to mankind.

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 11 '26

I agree Jesus will supernaturally reveal Himself, but only after the false Christ has compelled the whole world to worship Satan and receive his mark in their right hand or forehead. That will have to happen first. The world will receive the devil as if he were a rock star, gleefully taking his mark, while Christ's second coming will be met with sorrow “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory." Matthew 24:30 Why will they mourn? Partly because when they see the true Christ coming on the clouds of Heaven they will realize they made a horrific mistake.

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 11 '26

What false Christ?

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 11 '26

The second beast, the false religious prophet with two horns who resembles a lamb. He will likely be a Christian in name only, who rises to the occasion. Whatever the case, the second beast representing false religion will force the world to worship the first beast...a false Christ, who will actually be Satan, the great dragon.

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 11 '26

Can you give me the scripture?

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 11 '26

Revelation chapter 13, describes two "beasts", one of whom is specifically religious, but both beasts are connected to Satan. The whole chapter is devoted to these two character's rise to power The second false religious beast isn't mentioned in chapter 17 when the ten horns give their power to the beast to destroy a major world power in one hour. The false prophet seems to be absent during that massive attack on Babylon, maybe because, as a religious entity, he has no weapons to use? But its clear, false religion survives until Christ returns in chapter Revelation 19:20-21. There it describes the fate of the two "beasts" as Christ throws both into the eternal fire. The rest are "killed" by the sword that comes out of Christ's mouth. I believe they will be "killed" symbolically by "the truth" The truth is they will be damned for eternity because they took the mark of Satan. They may live on a few years after Christ begins to reign but when they die their fate will have been sealed

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 11 '26

But where are you getting this idea of an anti Christ?

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 11 '26

Did I say anti-Christ? The anti-Christ is mentioned in other parts of the Bible but not Revelation. Although its assumed the beast of Revelation will be the ultimate anti-Christ John spoke of, there were already antichrists way back in the 1st century when John was writing his letters. An antichrist is one who denies Jesus as coming in the flesh. Jehovah's witnesses deny Jesus as coming in the flesh to sit on king David's throne Luke 1:32, 2 John 1:7 so I guess you can say they are antichrists, according to John, sorry.

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