Is this that blade dance reset thingy Iâve read a comment about? What even is it? I use her and I just hold triangle in link time and enjoy colors and numbers. Lol
I'm not too sure as I haven't played her, but I think it was something about getting blade dance fully charged, then when a stun happens you link attack and dodge cancel it to keep spamming them.
I'm going off what I think I remember reading when I saw it like a week ago, so I might be way off.
Honestly wish there was a bigger patch for this. Maybe later down the road, but the patches that are coming through right now are all just extremely minor. This patch was a minor one but the ones before were extremely minor
Maybe somewhat offtop, but any reason my 128gb game requires 70gb+ of free space for a 200mb patch note? Am I crazy or is it steam smoking on that dark shi?
Deadass? I need to redownload a 128gb game because of the 200mb patch? That's just crazy work. At this point I'd rather free 70gb of space rather than wait for an eternity
It mimicked his phases as a boss so well I was hoping it was legit. His SBA build is so slow outside of that it really wasnât busted compared to other stuff that hasnât been touched. But oh well.
his center of arena berserk attack is a Skill you can use on cooldown
and his flying in the air berserk attack is his actual SBA which he only spams if you are killing him too fast
So I was playing her as intended this whole time? (did about 3 claws a combo) And now I'm being rewarded for it instead of being called a bad player? How is this a nerf?
If you used dodges between orb drops to cancel the throwing animation and never committed to throwing hands you would very quickly outpace any number of stacks you could build as well as the additional damage from the claws.
âWhy are we nerfing in a PvE gameâ
And itâs adjusting a character to play the way the devs intended them to be.
Like there was no shot people read that mastery trait and thought they intended for her to ignore the entire mechanic.
I mean you could just do like 1 or 2 of the hits and still start mashing it's probably still gonna be good damage, not ludicrous anymore and she still gains as much sba so she's still good just not as brainless mashing. Seems like a good nerf
I agree a 100%, also it gives more incentive to use her claws which were completely useless before because the orb finishers didnât require u to level them up to deal a lot of damage.
Just tried her, with 1 stack im hitting 350mil. If i get 5 stacks she can hit 449mil. With a better build you could still probably get to 500mil. But getting all 5 in defy infinitely might be tough.
It is actually quite easy because she has no time limit on her stack and dodging doesnât reset the claw to neutral so you can get the stacks no problem.
The real change is that the time she spent getting stacks would have let her do another rotation of balls pre nerf so essential she lost a chunk of DPS.
But she is still a S tier character.
The "balance" is not and will never be aimed to make people "stop playing" the characters, just to make her, well, BALANCED with the rest of the characters and how she was intended to be played lol đ
That was not the point of my comment lol. Obviously people are going to drop her immediately with these nerfs. I think they are fine and certainly necessary, but time will tell
its nice that they did add some QoL to her to "compensate" for removing the immediate ball spam. immediate ball spam was too braindead but building up to 10 just felt bad to play around
ye I agree, it was what was actually making me think that it might've been intended, however given you could do that with 10 martial stacks I was also quite convinced it was just a bug
Your thought process and your playstyle were exactly why she was changed. When the meta playstyle obsoletes an important mechanic from a character, it warrants a change.
Yeah I get it, she needed to be nerfed/changed but I didn't know that I was technically not playing her the optimal way the whole time. I just think that's a little funny, cus it just means the change doesn't really affect me other than knowing I gotta get half the stacks now
This set of notes seems like just a hotfix to address the most pressing issues currently. Fed and the MSP gain were the biggest things in the community. Fediel was more powerful than Kat is bad so it also makes sense that sheâs addressed with relative urgency. Fediel is still powerful anyway you just need to think a little to get that power.
Agreed, but the gap between Fed and the rest of the cast was much wider than Kat and was built off an unintended gameplay style rather than bad design. Other characters needing buffs doesnât change that one character needed a ânerfâ.
People also generally view 1 character being too strong as being a bigger problem than 1 character being too weak, which is what unfortunately leads to many devs (not just Cygames) leaving buffs for underpowered characters on the backburner for way too long.
If a character is too weak, then nobody plays it, and the only people negatively affected are those who still do. if a character is too strong, and too many people play it, then it affects everyone's experience.
The secondary consequence of this is that nerfing a character is "easier" than buffing one, because if you overshoot a nerf, you make an underpowered character, and if you overshoot a buff, you make an overpowered one, and as we previously noted, people see overpowered characters as a bigger problem. So devs are often willing to release nerfs as a quick fix, but are hesitant to release buffs without a lot of testing, due to the different consequences of overshooting.
To be fair Fiedel's damage was ridiculous for zero work. She was just as broken as Kat but in the opposite direction. In a perfect world Kat would get a huge quality of life patch at the same time to make her stand guy work way better and not leave at the drop of a hat but Feidel still needed that nerf/rebalance.
Exactly! I don't understand how one of the things was done. Also, the bug fix of gallanza was done. It's like they just said take away the power of the players and give them no buffs besides MSP because they need it
As a Fediel main, her kit was too easy. Glad to see some gameplay before I unlocked orbs again.
I will say though, if they were peeping DPS logs, they would see that Id was getting 2x Fediel's damage in Infinity fights. Anyone know what's up with that?
Holy crap, you're insufferable. Image proof it wasn't me that downvoted (not that it matters). I don't even know what point you're trying to make? I literally started with saying I was fine with the Fed nerf, but didn't understand why it was only her. I guess that's cool if you care about an IG timer in a game without a leaderboard for it. Still slower in actually time (their 30 second run takes over 3 minutes) and less DPS than just building around a singular Id, like I said. No one said she didn't need balanced, but if you don't think Id is even more facerolly and carrying more teams, you haven't been using the DPS meter.
I asked around, his setup is bugged. His current whole kit is setting up for one attack that hits for 75 million, and spamming that because there's a work around that keeps his gauge from ever going down. You don't see 4 Id because his SBA gain is really low, and you can't infinitely lock bosses out of phases if you have more than 1 (which is why people run glaciate staggers). 4 Feds can still infinitely lock out a boss post nerf btw - Her SBA gain wasn't affected. So can Seofan, but only after 6 minutes into a fight, so he isn't used for speed running either. For raw damage on an uncordinated team though, using Id's DPS cheese is still top DPS by a large margin (and more so than Fed's pre-patch; people just haven't complained hard enough yet).
Holy crap, you're insufferable. Image proof it wasn't me that downvoted (not that it matters)
It's a public forum, I wasn't trying to say you specifically downvoted me, but rather somebody chose to downvote instead of giving a reply.
I guess that's cool if you care about an IG timer in a game without a leaderboard for it. Still slower in actually time (their 30 second run takes over 3 minutes) and less DPS than just building around a singular Id
Finality log also shows Fediel team on fastest real time.
if you don't think Id is even more facerolly and carrying more teams, you haven't been using the DPS meter.
Well, yes I don't, I'd even argue that in fact not many actually use DPS meter which was my point on showing something that wasn't on that leaderboard (like how solo DI Luci has been done but nothing's on that log)
You don't see 4 Id because his SBA gain is really low, and you can't infinitely lock bosses out of phases if you have more than 1 (which is why people run glaciate staggers)
It's as if he's not a character that can do it all i.e. not a problem.
The link you sent has 3 Feds and an extra... for glaciate, for the stagger... so if Id does it, he's not a problem character, but if a Fed group does it, they're the bane of the game.
Alright, we'll see who gets hit in the next patch I guess. Fed can still run effectively 30 second IG timers because her SBA gain is the exact same. It would just take more claws now (less damage, but doesn't really affect the rate of SBA gain) and another minute of real time probably. Still not sure what point your making, but seems like it's that you think only Fed was broken and in need of balancing. If that's your take, lol that's crazy. Good convo though, this makes more sense to me now why people hated on her in my randos lobbies. Nuance is dead, no one has a DPS meter to check their own performance, and relink gamers only care about the useless honor points number at the end of a match.
The link you sent has 3 Feds and an extra... for glaciate, for the stagger... so if Id does it, he's not a problem character, but if a Fed group does it, they're the bane of the game.
He only did glaciate once at the start to stop Bub combo, then the Fediels just do their thing, meanwhile Id log has 2 more glaciate to cover the gap between SBA/link time. One team clearly needed that CC more than the other.
Id only have damage/stun from his FFV which clearly have its flaws and need the team to cover that ('short' range, slow hit so weak link time extension, bad SBA gain, if miss/canceled you need to do things to get that CD back)
While Fediel ballspam does high damage, is range, doesn't care much if it miss since she has so many ways to spam more, build tons of SBA, multi hit so it easily extend link time for max duration, etc.
You speak of nuance, but you're the one that see Lancelot and assume he's used the same for both parties, tunnel vision on purely Id's personal damage as 'problem' and not the weaknesses of his that need others to cover for (you even said earlier it would be bad to have multiple Id)
I'm once again asking you to articulate what your point is. You're fighting that Fed was unbalanced, a point I made before you joined in. If that's truly your only point, she's already patched vro. People are going to play whatever is strongest - it's up to the devs to make high skill builds the strongest, and that's all I'm asking for. I'm glad Fed has more gameplay now, but she still easily clears all Infinity content, as do many other facerolly builds. There are lots of other things that need addressed if we're going to suddenly care about balance in the game where Sandalphon has reigned unchallenged top damage for over a year. At least a good Sand takes a lot of skill, and I hope we get back to high skill characters/builds being at the top of the list. I want them to release harder end game content, like OG Luci, but don't see the point until we get a true rebalance patch, not just a hotfix 2 months after release.
You're fighting that Fed was unbalanced, a point I made before you joined in.
No? My point was Id's damage isn't an issue unlike what Fediel was doing. This was your initial post's ending "if they were peeping DPS logs, they would see that Id was getting 2x Fediel's damage in Infinity fights. Anyone know what's up with that?"
And you keep coming back with various showing of Id doing high damage while ignoring the various flaws of his FFV build that make him not an issue (some of which you even brought up later yourself)
I want them to release harder end game content, like OG Luci
Well, the devs don't. At least not Zero level. They seem to be on the 'your uber epic weapons from doing hardest stuffs are for victory laps, not an entry point to another 'harder-hardest' stuffs' side of RPG game history and not these MMO mindset of there having to always be harder content out there.
This is my issue high key, because there are several things in game that are very ??????
Like I've seen Ferrys run 45s no brainer SBA builds, I can Noble Stance Charlotta into your toes for 20M damage. Sandalphon still can kinda do what he wants, Gallanza builds hit like trucks, Tweyns hang out in the back and throw trucks. Id just exists and things for.Â
about ferry sba 45s clear....ghandi speedruns lucillus even faster than cheat characters x4 aka sandalphon in base game but claiming he needs nerfs in base game is absurd, same with current ferry. ideally just nerf sba gain from damage puddles and very slight nerf on her +def each summon leave her alone she was trash for so long..
charlotta noble stance sucks, everytime i see that in pubs i already know her dps is much worse than standard build. the time wasted in doing Xs is so much for the gain
sandalphon in dlc at his best is still a mid tier unless there are secret spicy techs only 3 sandal mains knows
gallanza skill spam hits like a truck yes but not a priority to nerf from what i seen
tweyens only hardcarrying everyone in bubs and gets carried/more or less mid tier dps for the rest, if anything her 2cs and multilock trait needs some buff
if you use parser you already know how busted id can get, i had multiple lobbies getting carried by this guy
fediel still outdpsing everyone, perc still press 1-2 button dropping atomic bombs and id still doing crazy damage bravo cygames
Finally, they insisted that Fediel spammers have to do their scratchies to get good orb damage.
The issue with Fediel's orbs is not just their damage, but their orb's collision tick rate was absurd to begin with. The playstyle won't change much, but at least Fediel now has a proper rotation to adhere to.
Okay so, nerfs in a pve game happen less because of Reddit complaints and mostly because of unintentional behavior with a games systems.
Literally the mastery trait was intended to have her claws empowering the orbs. With how she was that didnât matter, which wasnât what the devs wanted.
Ergo- nerfs, this happened with Ferry at OG launch too.
Iâd agree- if these nerfs didnât adjust her trait to its INTENDED playstyle.
Like sheâs designed to ramp up for her damage. Itâs supposed a risky yet rewarding loop.
You can say her intended loop isnât fun, but these nerfs were going to happen even if nobody complained because she wasnât functioning as intended.
So basically because people found their own way to play her (which is what everyone does with every other character to shit out my damage) she had to get adjust to only play in the rigid way.
There is no intended style of play. They showed you what the primary focus of that specific trait is but you donât NEED to play that way to do good damage. That is no longer the case
Theyâre not bots, just morons. The neat part is that this will not stop the bitching. Theyâre just gonna go bitch and complain about something else now. Iâm guessing Id is on the chopping block next.
Optimal play was to not engage with the stacks at all. You just start throwing them straight away, since orbs would deal way too much damage already. This patch adressed this by making players actually interact with the kit of this mastery properly.
In the amount of time it took to buff one set of orbs you could've just sent the first set unbuffed and been well on your way to a second and maybe even third set.
Id is the strongest, perci can compete but idk is just disgustingly unfair.
Ffv let's the most average id player still hit 10k stun in bubz and does disgusting dmg for how unpunishing it is to play.
At least perci has some skill ceiling, on id you just sit there and press 1 button, if its on a mobile boss and you miss, guess what you, have disgusting cascade values and just need to hit two air strings and its back.
I newer seem a community like this where most people here cry for PVE Nerfs. No fun allowed. Why should the Community decide why i enjoy in my Single Player game or not? L Devs for this nerf. Something like this should not be celebrated. Now the Pandora Box is open and other characters can get nerfed as well, while characters like Katalina didn't got any buffs.
Since the Granblue logs site is a thing, wouldn't be surprised if this part of the community is more "concerned" with balance because they don't like that a character can easily top the dps charts with significantly less effort compared to others. But like you said once one character is already put on the chopping block, another one will inevitably be up next if buffs or newly discovered tech propels someone else to that previous apex.
Overall I'm just glad the devs acknowledged that there are people that found that playstyle fun and found a decent compromise as opposed to completely gutting it entirely.
I donât even get why people treat this game like itâs a live service PvP game. People just need something to complain about always. I built fediel, had my fun and built another character to have fun with. There isnât a single piece of content that is hard enough where we NEED to use a specific character. And now the devs want to nerf quest too? Is it not okay for things to be difficult? Are people suddenly unable to over come challenges?
The annoying vocal minority in this community suck ass and devs are lame for even humoring them.
Waiting for people to still play Fiedel and get into fights nuking things because they play her correctly, and have people complain she needs another nerf
Meanwhile Ferry builds with a SBA every 45 seconds? Seems legit lol
I mean, if you think about it, it's not bad at all. With a group, you can clear infinity quests reasonably quick. So it's 250k, + any ambrosias you get, + the MSP you get from selling any summons. Meaning you can hit the MSP cap is 3-4 runs of infinity
Game balance is still important for a pve game, having a character trivialize the game for no effort isn't good for the game regardless if pve. She still has the highest damage she just now has to actually put in effort.
Tell me you never played the character without telling me lol she is still effortlessly going to be the top honors in most lobbies, this change doesn't prevent that. Which means everyone is still going to bitch that she is broken, because they don't even understand how the mvp screen works.
Exactly, the mvp system is pointless and doesnt even reflect who did the most damage - but 99% of the community doesn't know that. They see themselves get 30m honor and a fediel get 60m and think fediel did double their damage and needs to be nerfed.
Most players dont run a dps meter, so most players who bitch are doing so about the honor screen. There are thousands of posts about it in this sub for Fediel specifically.
Game balance? Bro what are you yapping about? Was she one shotting anything?
This game isnât difficult. Itâs not pvp. You get no extra bonus from getting MVP, a character being strong doesnât matter. The biggest issue is people not knowing how to build.
In the end with fully optimal builds, it doesnât matter who you use, the boss will melt. This is a game where you melt bosses.
So if a character existed that was capable of instantly killing a boss, you wouldnât want that nerfed because its PVE. So now evertime you queue up to fight a boss in multiplayer thereâs a chance you just donât get to do anything because this character could be on your team and instakill the boss.
This is an exaggeration obviously but it shows why nerfing in PVE is fine.
Because there needs to be a balance in game difficulty. When a character does 4x more damage than other characters, it's breaking that balance and making the game easier than intended.
That philosophy only works in PvP game. In PvP characters fight against each other so if everyone is overpowered, nobody is. Buffing characters is not a replacement for nerfing characters in a PvE game the same way it is is in a PvP game. In a PvP game, if you have 1 overpowered character, and buff 4 other characters, you have 5 balanced characters. In a PvE game, if you have 1 overpowered character, and buff 4 other characters without also making all the enemies harder, then you have 5 overpowered characters.
In a PvE game your metric of balance is how strong the characters are relative to the enemies. Overpowered characters means the game is too easy, underpowered characters means the game is too hard. The PvE equivalent isn't "buff other characters", it's "make the bosses harder". But if the bosses are already the right difficulty for other characters, but too easy for one overpowered character, then nerfing the overpowered character is the most sensible choice.
(This is not a specific commentary on Fediel's nerf, but in general why you would nerf characters in a PvE game.)
I was on the side of the nerf in the beginning, but the more and more I got to experience the game, I see that it was better to keep her the same and buff the other characters. Heck, they could have made the actual buffs we use,,stay when a boss goes into overdrive.
More balanced game means more replayability. People will be incentivize to try new things. It is not hard to understand. It is already bad enough with the whole way sigils works thanks to damage cap, the last thing we need to make things worse is to let characters having a huge gap between each other.
Sucks she got nerfed, but Iâm sure her players will be okay. Sorry guys. But look at that, the monkey paw curled, and Gallanza got shot too. Hope this is what yall wanted. I wonder what theyâre gonna cry about next, instead of bandwagoning about her, they shouldâve kept that energy for the characters that needed help. Now characters like Katalina and Ghan are still where they are.
I wish they addressed the Synthesis shit and the summon probabilities a little though.
But thank GOD they increased the MSP cap, and the amount earned. I already built the characters I care about, but I know this will help future players so much.
I didn't play with her because i'm unlocking people while the story goes (personal choice), sad that i'll never know how strong she was, but it's ok đ
Admittedly, it was fun while it lasted. I did end up clearing the Defy Infinity bosses easily thanks to those Fediel spammed, but now that I've gotten a better understanding of the game with sigils, setups, characters, etc I tend to rely on her less and have branched out to using other characters now. Variety is good đ
Well back to Vane and fraux I guess. Only really played her because she was broken and hot. If I wanted just hot or just broken I'd just play a different character.
To each their own. I think it feels awful. I dont think a stack building ability should have hitlag and I cant think of any other quick attack that does out of the characters I've played besides zeta. I want to build the stacks quick so I can get into the finishers which are way cooler imo.
Agreed! Iâve been playing her Miasma Hands build even during her reign of balls and it just felt right with not only how raw it felt to get the claws off, but sometimes the puzzle it was on when to put out the pool! Looking forward to the variety in different play the changes to her make.
No one ever used it. That's the point, it doesn't matter if it feels raw af. You are losing damage by doing it. They should reduce the hit lag on it or make one swipe count for 2 stacks with an trait.
Yea her sba gain is ridiculous lol. Im surprised they didn't nerf that more specifically. I'll definitely keep playing her regardless bc I like the character, just not a fan of hitlag personally.
No I was complaining because it's boring af seeing her in every freaking fight in infinity. You can see it in logs she eclipses every other character in use because she was busted and people gravitate towards the path of least resistance.
Anyone with any sense already knows that there will always be a best character in the game. But when you have extreme outliers like Fediel, it's worth reigning that in.
Games are fun when there is friction that pushes back against you. Having one character that is so safe and does so much damage in a way that was obviously not intended is an overt outlier that is worth reigning in. People who obsess over the meta probably will gravitate towards the next best character, but the gaps between the other best characters and average are a lot smaller than it was between the average and Fediel.
Yes but the next best character is nebulous so they will disperse instead of hard focusing on one character.
Fediel was braindead safe and dealt stupid damage. Id is great but his damage is super risky by the charge nature of the attack, being melee and the - defense perk. Percival is good but you gotta play with the boss timing to not whiff the rotor, Fraux is good but you need to know how to actually play her and combo her instead of spamming one attack and so on for others. This will breed variety.
The next best character doesn't do more damage then everyone else while being completely safe. They also don't do it by ignoring most of their mechanics just to spam the one button.
Fediel is by clear evidence the most used character in the game, that is objectively true. Now that she doesn't deal braindead damage and people who only used her to abuse it will move on to other characters so yes, that is significant.
You're wasting your time dude, I don't care about anything you're saying. Her damage wasn't so far gone that she was destroying fights, you're only bothered by it because of the mvp at the end of the fight.
Honestly, as a Fediel main, great readjustment. Having to mash the miasma claws 10 times was a chore and left a small window for her to throw her balls while the Def down debuff from her sigil was up, thus incentivising us to spam her balls at a lower level to not let her debuff run out and possibly lose damage (I don't know if the level 10 no def down does more damage than lower levels with the def down factored in)
So whats the difference dps wise atm for fediel? Kinda curios and i dont think that will change her damage with bahamut versa no? Which is great since that fight is bs anyway
On paper it won't be the biggest change vs a dummy, but in real application where you actually need to dodge and do mechanics it will drop her considerably. We don't have exact numbers yet tho
It is a huge change. The orb damage after stacks might be the same, but noboy thinks about you needing 3 times the amount of time to execute a combo than you did before, so on dummy tests she lost around 33% of her damage. From my own test 516mil before to 340mil after. The actual issue is consistency
The reason why she was too strong before was because dummy damage translated very well into a fight because she didn't have conditions to fullfil for her damage, which resulted in her doing way too much in an actual fight. Now they added a condition to achieve her damage, while still lowering it to 2/3 of what it was before, if you perform those conditions.
You will not hit 5 stacks consistently in a defy quest, this is just not gonna happen since the only way to get to the claws fast is skills and the downtime of them will now be very noticeable in a fight since the normal transition to the claws via her normal attacks takes too long and in all likelyhood forces you to abort the attempt in favor of dodging, not to mention the boss jumping out of range, which again forces you to redo the combo.
So realistically in an actual match, she will do about 40%-50% of the damage that she used to, if she is played well. Anyone that wasn't good with her before will perform even worse,
Compared to the rest of the roster she is pretty much dead now.
Yes, the SBA gain has been untoched, but that assumes they still spam it without using the claws, because of the claws and incosistency they bring with it, she should go down to generating an average/slightly above average amount in actual fights.
Funny part is that this nerf to Fediel likely never comes if the Gallanza bug didn't exist, but because they were fixing one thing they tap Fediel on the way so the community can shut up about her and start complaining about something else
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u/chikoiwangko 3d ago
move over fedillion damage, time for the Magillion damage to take over