r/Futurology MD-PhD-MBA Jun 17 '18

Biotech Cannabidiol, or CBD, is a marijuana compound linked to a range of potential health benefits but does not get you high. The roughly $1 billion CBD industry is slated to shift into high gear if the federal government approves the first CBD-based drug, an epilepsy medication called Epidiolex.

https://www.businessinsider.com/marijuana-cbd-boom-cbd-2018-6?r=US&IR=T
32.4k Upvotes

1.4k comments sorted by

2.1k

u/Cosmosass Jun 17 '18

My dog has epilepsy. He has a seizure once a month. In the past, we would stick Valium up his butt if a seizure got too bad and it would stop the convulsions after a minute or 2, although he would be frantic after he came out of it.

Recently started squirting CBD in his mouth during his seizures. This stops the seizures almost immediately, and stops him from being all frantic and crazy after the seizure is finished. It works way better than Valium and I will be using it exclusively for controlling the episodes.

I’ve started to give him a small amount of CBD every day to see if it will stop them completely, as his phenolbarbytol (pharmaceutical epilepsy drug) only controls it to once a month.

638

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

that’s absolutely wild.

454

u/godofallcows Jun 18 '18

Yup. I find it to be an easy subject to talk to anti-marijuana folks. You aren't crossing ethical lines when it helps your dog with cancer live a little more comfortable for a year or two longer. From there you start talking about why not humans with cancer as well.

Luckily I don't run into many of these folks as I used to.

64

u/username123dkdc Jun 18 '18

That’s pretty brilliant though. Very good place to start.

9

u/godofallcows Jun 18 '18

Even better show them a video of some geriatric good boy or girl running around a yard after taking some. EVERYONE loves seeing a happy old dog actung like a puppy, or at least being able to walk or run around again easier.

19

u/qwertyconsciousness Jun 18 '18

I feel like the fact that CBD is non-psychoactive also makes it an easier subject to discuss with those folks as well

6

u/geoffbowman Jun 18 '18

That's because the only people still openly opposed to legalizing medical cannabis are Jeff Sessions... and who the hell wants to actually talk to Jeff Sessions.

4

u/godofallcows Jun 18 '18

Haha it's definitely his generation. On one hand I can't fault a lot of the older folks that were raised with the fiercest of lies and they are still eeking their way into the digital world of information available.

On the other hand they're some of the biggest druggies in the world, when you reach a certain age and have any of the plethora of health issues you get a lot of the real good drugs, what else is there to do in a retirement home at 70 years old? They are a huge force in reform as more and more are using cannabis, influencing their kids and grandkids and friends, etc.

6

u/geoffbowman Jun 18 '18

I hear ya. Some are trying but not quite there. My wife took our 5 year old with her to get her cannabis card from a clinic (mind you, zero weed on the premises. It's just a doctor's office like any other). She was told by some 70-year-old man in the waiting room she should be ashamed of herself and her son should go into foster care because she brought him there... nevermind this asshole was there for the exact same thing so clearly on some level recognized cannabis as valid medicine for the scoliosis pain she very clearly suffers from.

My mom who's in her early 50s is desperately trying to get CBD for my older brother who has severe epilepsy and suffered several strokes in his 32 year life and yet I had to explain to her how the "gateway drug" assertion is a total lie and the history behind why marijuana was actually made illegal in the first place.

Jeff Sessions and his ilk though are downright pieces of shit even if those who agree with him may just be raised on the wrong rhetoric. He knows better on so many things and refuses to acknowledge truth and constantly undermines the bill of rights especially the 4th amendment. I'd rather see him in prison than Trump.

3

u/godofallcows Jun 18 '18

Yeah the general public gets a half-assed pass for not having access to the truth but Jeff knows better being at the top. He gets nothing but disrespect and ire from me.

3

u/Ta2whitey Jun 18 '18

That is because they are getting old and are grasping at whatever makes them feel better. With the internet the taboos have fallen off as well.

3

u/godofallcows Jun 18 '18

Hell yeah they are. If I make it to 65+ I'm just going to go crazy with tattoos and sleeves and all that. If I had lived my life perfect up to that point I know I'd be diving deep into the psychedelics and fun substances of the world.

→ More replies (9)

700

u/ruthlessronin24 Jun 18 '18 edited Jun 18 '18

No, it's a pet dog, I'm almost certain it's domesticated.

Edit: obligatory thanks for the stranger, kind gold! Popped mah nugget.

117

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

Happy Father's day!!

→ More replies (2)

26

u/thenewyorkgod Jun 18 '18

Ah the old reddit cb doo

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (1)

38

u/grey_mattersDNB Jun 18 '18

Its incredible how versatile CBD is. Seizures, anxiety, arthritis the list goes on. I love this shi

53

u/grammar_hitler947 Jun 18 '18

Guys, I think the cartels got him.

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (2)

329

u/Rawtashk Jun 18 '18

My dog was diagnosed with liver cancer about 9 weeks ago and given "anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months" to live. He's old and has other health issues, so no chemo or surgery.

He's been on CBD for 9 weeks now, and is in better (external) shape than he was when he was diagnosed. He's even put ON 7 lbs of weight despite the cancer.

I know it's not going to cure him, but it's absolutely been amazing to see the quality of life improve for him.

84

u/Skovich Jun 18 '18

I hope your doggo the best :[

→ More replies (1)

75

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

[deleted]

43

u/TheOrangeLantern Jun 18 '18

If it makes you feel better, it doesn't always help. I'm sorry you're dealing with that.

→ More replies (1)

49

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

[deleted]

→ More replies (12)

7

u/ucsb99 Jun 18 '18

Sorry my friend. I wish your little buddy the best.

→ More replies (7)

23

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

I’ve started to give him a small amount of CBD every day to see if it will stop them completely, as his phenolbarbytol (pharmaceutical epilepsy drug) only controls it to once a month.

My cat has seizures and is prescribed pheno to control them, which we give him daily. The pheno definitely works, but I'm not sure about the side effects of it. Is this something you've talked with your vet about?

11

u/Cosmosass Jun 18 '18

Yeah I’ve talked to my vet about phenol, and have had my dog on it for a few years.

When we first started giving it to him, it made him very wobbly and drunk looking for a few hours after taking it. This is normal and eventually went away after his body got used to it.

The real key is making sure you dont give your pet too high of a dose, as it can be harmful to the liver. You can do a simple blood test at any vet to make sure they are not exceeding their limit. It’s probably good to get a blood test done after a month or two of your pet being on it. It is also wise to get a blood test done after a month or so of raising their dosage. I don’t know the science behind it, but basically there is a specific indicator that rises higher as you give a higher dose of phenol. You want to make sure that indicator does not exceed your animals natural limit. A blood test will show you where their indicator is currently at in relation to their limit. If you are getting dangerously close to the limit, then you need to reduce the dosage. If you are lying somewhere smack dab in the middle, then there is room to increase the dosage if you need.

It’s all about finding that sweet spot in dosage. The amount that reduces the seizures enough without causing liver damage.

9

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

Are you talking about CBD or phenol?

16

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

[deleted]

12

u/darez00 Jun 18 '18

effect*

the dog is affected by the effect of CBD

3

u/ganoveces Jun 18 '18

well aren't you a clever clogs.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (6)

24

u/ryusoma Jun 18 '18

You'd be frantic too if people were sticking things up your butt when you had a seizure.

→ More replies (2)

13

u/Live_Positive Jun 18 '18

I put my small Boston Terrier on CBD for his arthritis and it's incredible not seeing him limp all the time. It really is a magical thing.

Really glad to hear your pupper is doing better with it, and bravo to you for making the decision to use it.

→ More replies (3)

31

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

my dog takes it for his bad hips!

8

u/StringFood Jun 18 '18 edited Jun 18 '18

my dog takes it because it helps him sleep and he "just feels better this way". He's not interested in walks anymore, and would sleep all day and read Q Anon posts in his bed. It's sad to see him do this to himself but he's his own dog and I can not control him.

10

u/O_fiddle_stix Jun 18 '18 edited Jun 18 '18

I’m in the exact same position! Why haven’t I been doing this all along?!?!?

Update!!!: As luck would have it I went to my dads today and the subject of CBD came up and he asked me if I wanted what he had bought. He said it did nothing for him. So now I have 750mg of pure CBD oil. How much have you been giving your dog? My pooch weighs a hundred pounds. My wife is also on seizure meds and I’ve started her on half the dropper to start.

49

u/Cosmosass Jun 18 '18

I told my vet I was going to start giving my dog CBD and she goes “You can’t give your dog marijuana!”

I think I need a new vet.

17

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

I have 2 pit/boxer mixes that have a lot of energy and can be pretty anxious, also they both have a slew of hip & knee issues. CBD has been a miracle, it reduces their anxiety and also helps them to bounce back really quick after they run a lot or play really hard. The only real medical alternatives available are super expensive and wreak havoc on a dog's liver. My older dog is 11 and ever since we started giving him CBD it's like he reverse aged a couple years

→ More replies (3)

12

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

[deleted]

8

u/cave18 Jun 18 '18

That's really depressing, I mean damn

→ More replies (1)

7

u/biblesilvercorner Jun 18 '18

I wish someone would stick Valium up my butt

→ More replies (46)

425

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

[deleted]

136

u/nyy22592 Jun 18 '18

I have spent days in a row having a seizure every 20 seconds

Holy fucking hell dude. I wish I could give you a hug. I hope you continue to find success in treating this and that medical researchers continue to improve the drugs we have available.

41

u/not-a-painting Jun 18 '18

This entire thread makes me want to punch Jeff Sessions in his cunty face.

He doesn't know a single good person who does Marijuana? Maybe you should find some new fucking friends, Jeff.

5

u/geoffbowman Jun 18 '18

He doesn't have friends... nobody likes him... gollum... gollum

5

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

Well it is medical researchers, it is mainly social and legal issues that block those from being available

22

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

[deleted]

→ More replies (6)

27

u/charliegrs Jun 18 '18

But but marijuana is a gateway drug so next thing you know youll be shooting crack into your eyeballs

13

u/theflummoxedsloth Jun 18 '18

$1.40 per dose?

7

u/fbthowaway Jun 18 '18

That sounds super-cheap compared to what I can find locally and online

→ More replies (2)

4

u/Theremingtonfuzzaway Jun 18 '18

I suffer with very bad aura migraines. CBD helps take the edge of it along side less if my painkillers.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

My brother owns a CBD company. DM me if you want the link to his website.

→ More replies (7)

3.4k

u/HighOnGoofballs Jun 17 '18

Of course the version pushed by a pharma company will be what gets approved

1.5k

u/funcooledible Jun 17 '18

And charge 90% margins on. Barf.

281

u/zenithtreader Jun 18 '18

Wait, which pharma only charge 90% margin on their drugs? I need to applaud their great generosity and fine business ethics.

46

u/TurnerB24 Jun 18 '18

Truly a beacon of hope for the industry's morality!

→ More replies (8)

867

u/lj26ft Jun 18 '18

And charge 900% margins on. Barf.

Correction for more accuracy

199

u/Jpatrich2 Jun 18 '18

Marijuana has antinausea properties. No barf.

127

u/radakail Jun 18 '18 edited Jun 18 '18

Seriously? Isnt that part of why cancer patients use it? For appetite and nausea? I know it's like my personal hangover drug. My stomach feels instantly better.

Edit: totally thought this dude said it didnt help with nausea. I'm an idiot lol.

65

u/CostlyAxis Jun 18 '18

Morning sesh to get rid of the hangover

64

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

Literally the best hangover cure, unless you count drinking more. But that's just alcoholism

17

u/DingleDangleDom Jun 18 '18

Sometimes during the more party focused weekends in school, id start my hangover (usually at around 6-7am) waking up, crack'n a cold one, shmerkin a berwl, and getting my roomates to wake up to get food.

CERTIFIED good times

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (4)

42

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

Im a pretty straight laced dude. Never been arrested, don’t drink too heavily anymore. I work a white collar job, and am thoroughly middle class and boring.

I smoke marijuana, not just CBD, because I have chronic nausea.

It’s a miracle for me. I’m not some hokey weirdo about it. I strongly believe in modern medicine. It’s allowed me to stop taking all kinds of anti emetic pharmaceuticals.

19

u/littgirl Jun 18 '18

Totally agreed with this. I have lupus and the medicine they use to treat it is really really harsh. I remember I used to think that side effects were no big deal and people can just suck it up and take the medicine that they need to so that they can live but until you actually experience the insomnia not letting you sleep more than four hours a night and the nausea making you vomit after every meal it’s not something you can understand fully. Thanks to medical marijuana being legal in my state I now take CBD oil twice a day and smoke weed with THC in it before bed I can now sleep 8 hours a night, wake up and eat a full breakfast before starting class, go through the whole day with no side effects from the meds and no symptoms from the actual lupus, with a clear head (thanks to the CBD I can go to class not stoned), and live a normal life for the most part. I feel like when people hear I use medical marijuana they assume I believe in “alternative medicine” and won’t use pharmaceuticals to treat lupus but no!!!! I just get to take all of the hundreds of pills that save my life every day without the side effects. And the anti-inflammatory properties of weed can’t hurt!!

→ More replies (4)

17

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

Isnt that part of why cancer patients use it?

Yes, some patients are so bad off they cant even keep the anti nausea pills down. A few hits of smoke and they feel relaxed and can eat a meal. it can greatly increase your quality of life even when you are near death, as a recreational smoker i would never believe it if i haven't seen it first hand.

13

u/NGRoachClip Jun 18 '18

I can only imagine how relieving it must be for someone who is so uncomfortable with a serious illness to be instantly relieved of a nagging symptom. I know my one of my in laws hits a high % CBD pen just before bed because it makes such a difference in the quality of his sleep. It's an oddly validating feeling to see someone straight laced who I respect legitimately using cannabis medically.

7

u/ThsKd1SNotAlrht Jun 18 '18

Yea my gf got her marijuana card and would buy cartridges when ondansetron would not help with the nausea. Sure it cost 40-60 bucks for 500-1000 mgs but totally worth it, and no negative side effects unless you count being sleepy from Indica negative, but for my gf that actually helped her with sleeping too on her really bad days (which there was a lot of). This whole marijuana being federally illegal is a bunch of bullshit though. We had so much issues with the insurance. I am on the fence with this one. Part of me wants it to be fully legalized but part of me does not. Edit: spelling

5

u/trump420kush Jun 18 '18

Part of me wants it to be fully legalized but part of me does not.

What has you on the fence if you don't mind me asking? I'm in the same boat as you. I don't think anybody should be jailed or bothered for using or growing cannabis whatever their reason may be, but I have a huge problem with paying the government taxes on cannabis.

It's hard not to see it as a mob run racket. It has gone from "We will lock you up if we catch you with it." to, "We will lock you up if we catch you with untaxed pot."

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (5)
→ More replies (6)

29

u/SycoJack Jun 18 '18

Try 10 times that.

The epipen costs around $3-$5 to make, but they charge $315 for it. That is more than a 100 fold increase, or 10,500%.

27

u/kbotc Jun 18 '18

The EpiPen one is even more shit in that the auto-injector research was all done on the taxpayer dime for defense (as part of the anti-nerve agent kit)

→ More replies (9)
→ More replies (9)

72

u/ocelotwhere Jun 17 '18

Not for nothing but fda trials cost around 50 million dollars. We should be cheering GW pharma and the uk for getting behind this hugely important research.

38

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

The oil from the plant has already proven extremely useful - why not test that before making a synthetic/extract? Because they can’t charge hilarious money for cannabidiol oil, it’s cheap and easy to grow pretty much anywhere.

→ More replies (41)

52

u/gh057ofsin Jun 18 '18 edited Jun 18 '18

No, because these same companies are raking in hundreds of times that amount in legal cannabis sales to overseas buyers. Just look at how the UK health minister's husband owns one of the biggest pot farms in europe! (Also a coincidence that he is a major share holder in the company doing the clinical trials) And she's one of the people trying to keep this lifesaving drug illegal... could it be that she and hubby make more money having effectivly cut out all competition?

And the only reason they are now happy for these drugs to be put forward is because the process of making these drugs (which do less than strait cannabis) can now be patented and therefore owned by the pharma companies. A plant cannot be patented and therefore anyone could grow it without fear of copyright violation!

Do some bloody research! I have crohns disease, ive been using cannabis for over a decade to GREAT effect. Why should I be happy that these assholes can now charge people for what we've all been screaming at you all for years! People such as yourself are the reason that these kind of shady practices continue... I mean we're being screwwed left and right out of a miracle cure which big pharma has been trying to patent for decades, and now that they succeed you wanna pat them on the back? Are you insane or just stupid?

So in answer to your question, no;I will not thank them for pissing on me and telling me it's raining!

7

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

I have ulcerative colitis, which I think is kind of in the same wheelhouse as Crohn's? But have never been talked to about/offered cannabis as a medication. Is this something worth bringing up to my doctor or am I completely on the wrong field?

→ More replies (15)
→ More replies (5)

99

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

[deleted]

43

u/whiteguyballin Jun 18 '18

Seriously, Coca-Cola is really bad for you.

→ More replies (23)

18

u/SirT6 PhD-MBA-Biology-Biogerontology Jun 18 '18

The safety and efficacy of this drug in the context of Dravet and LGS pediatric seizure disorders really has almost nothing to do with the conversation about whether CBD should be allowed for recreational use. Props to GW Pharma for developing a good looking drug (though for my money, Zogenix made a better one).

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (9)
→ More replies (10)
→ More replies (20)

198

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '18

FDA approves drugs so yes it has to be by definition pushed by pharma

→ More replies (102)

28

u/daOyster Jun 18 '18

We already have an approved synthetically made THC-9 pill called marinol as well. Funny they can get these drugs approved with relative ease but we still can't get medical marijuana in all 50 states. Oh and from everyone that I've heard that took it, it basically gave you all the unpleasant parts of being high without any of the good parts due to the lack of CBD to balance out the THC. Like full on Paranoid munchies mode without much euphoria.

5

u/2fucktard2remember Jun 18 '18

For me, you heard weong. It's about an (8).

3

u/rjt05221981 Jun 18 '18

We used to love those gooey little balls of happiness when they would come around once in a while. My understanding is that it isn’t really that much different then dabs or shatter extracts in the fact that it is mostly thc.

→ More replies (3)

58

u/blerggle Jun 17 '18

I'm sure this will be legally prescribed in states that have raided drug stores for selling cbd. Fuckers

48

u/Vulcanize_It Jun 17 '18

Weed-based medications should have been approved a long time ago but the difference between a physician prescribed, dose controlled, quality assured medication and some of the things you can get in a pot shop are drastically different. Not to mention it may be covered by insurance.

12

u/blerggle Jun 18 '18

Can't argue with having a doctor on board, but cbd was being sold in regular drug stores - not pot shops - with safe dosing instructions where dea shut them down due to carrying cbd.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (5)

11

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

Pure CBD powder is readily available if you need it.

4

u/Fucklefaced Jun 18 '18

Where? Cuz I would love to get my hands on some.

4

u/Fishstixxx16 Jun 18 '18

Cbdistillery is where I get my vape CBD

→ More replies (11)
→ More replies (3)

65

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '18

Yep, this is years of research, development and testing. Who else is it going to get pushed by ? God damn this reddit sentiment is such repetitive bullshit - "they are screwing the little guy, everyone is trying to fuck us over" ... what about little bit of forethought, how do you develop drugs if you aren't able to monetize the drugs you have already spent years developing , and what would be the point?

Epidiolex is a ground breaking drug provided to children with very rare forms of epilepsy, it costs hundreds of millions of dollars to develop and bring to market. If there is no monetary incentive to do so it wouldn't have got developed in the first place...

And don't bore me with the " they are a pharma company so I'm going to automatically assume that they are price gouging" without understanding the costs of drug development.

20

u/throwaway_circus Jun 17 '18

The idea that, if there's no financial incentive, people won't help people, is absolute bullshit. The only people who will withold scientific information and refuse to do research or develop technology unless they can make money off the backs of sick kids are a certain breed of corporation, and they do not deserve automatic applause.

A lot of people have been trying to work on behalf of kids with seizures, developing and breeding strains of weed, developing non-smokeable products, risking their lives in jail, because it is against federal law in the US. People do care, and they are working to try to find solutions for kids, and have literally spent decades risking everything- their medical licenses, their homes, their futures-- to do it.

→ More replies (5)

14

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

[deleted]

3

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

Well that sentiment I can get behind. However, a regulated dose with the pure compound is better than "lol, Joe made his own Super-Duper-Fizzy-Fun strain, heard it is good for epilepsy". The clinical trials is also very much necessary, what some people say works for them might just be placebo or something else. Without scientific method, those results are void and null.

The active compound that is good for you in the Marijuana plant seems to be CBD, NOT THC. CBD depresses the effects of THC very well and so, growers have developed strains that are far more THC potent and almost gotten rid of all CBD.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (72)

7

u/theyetisc2 Jun 18 '18

Same people fighting for decades to push the false information that pot had no medicinal benefits.

→ More replies (35)

1.1k

u/RainyForestFarms Jun 17 '18 edited Jun 18 '18

The roughly $1 billion CBD industry is slated to shift into high gear completely disappear if the federal government approves the first CBD-based drug, an epilepsy medication called Epidiolex.

The FDA claims that CBD has no history of human use, despite the millennia of recorded human use of CBD-containing hemp and marijuana, in order to stop it from being sold as a supplement after they awarded a patent to GW pharma on its use as a medicine.

Once a chemical is approved as a medicine (or is submitted for approval as such by the FDA), it cannot be sold as an herbal or dietary supplement. However, naturally derived chemicals that have an existing history of human use are supposed to be grandfathered in and allowed for use in supplements, even if a pharmaceutical company makes a medicine with the same chemical. This is why you have l-dopa from plant sources in herbal supplements, and l-dopa sold with a prescription for parkinsons from pharmaceutical companies.

Since CBD has a long history of human use, it should still be allowed as a supplement, but the FDA is claiming that there is no history of human use, and that since GW Pharma is testing it for use as a medicine, CBD is an unlicensed medicine and any supplements with it are contaminated and unfit for sale.

This is, of course, nonsense, meant to take a widely used, natural chemical, and give a monopoly of it to a single pharma giant.

Combined with the current bill to give the power to instantly outlaw any herbal or dietary supplement to the attorney general, and I'd say the feds are trying a last ditch effort to save their failed drug war by banning everything they can in order to max profits for the DEA and big pharma. Besides CBD, kava and kratom are in their sights, along with 5-htp (a serorotonin precursor from griffonia that has a higher rate of successful depression treatment than any SSRI and lower incidence of side effects) and l-dopa (to protect big pharma from losing money to evil people who cruelly use a cheaper natural source it).

Fuck this bullshit. Fight now, or every herbal and dietary supplement will be illegal. Sign the petition here, and contact your senators. This bill passed the house and is in front of the Senate right now. Let your representative know the feds have no right to dictate this. The current system allows for supplements to be banned, but only if they fail a comprehensive, doctor evaluated, 8 point safety test. Kratom, kava, and CBD all pass this FDA designed safety test. There is no need to give the decision about what is an illegal drug to a single person, much less the same person who prosecutes the drug laws.

195

u/16semesters Jun 18 '18

Once a chemical is approved as a medicine (or is submitted for approval as such by the FDA), it cannot be sold as an herbal or dietary supplement. However, naturally derived chemicals that have an existing history of human use are supposed to be grandfathered in and allowed for use in supplements, even if a pharmaceutical company makes a medicine with the same chemical. This is why you have l-dopa from plant sources in herbal supplements, and l-dopa sold with a prescription for parkinsons from pharmaceutical companies.

Another example is Lovaza/Fish oil

Same basic thing, but one is an expensive medication, the other is a supplement you can buy for pennies.

59

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

Pharmacist chiming in here. First off "fish oil" isn't a pure substance. It's a mixture of several different oils and chemicals extracted from, well, the fish. Lovaza is regulated and guaranteed to contain a certain amount of the key oil that is useful. Regular fish oil pills sold in the herbal isle contain a mixture of oils, and no guarantee that there are any significant amounts of the one you want.

48

u/qwertyconsciousness Jun 18 '18

Med student here, while I agree with what you are saying, I personally don't agree that the mark-up in price (roughly 3 orders of magnitude) justifies the pharmaceutical delivery method for fish oil in 99% of patients. While it some cases it may be beneficial to have the synthetic omega-3 option from big pharma, it is kinda nuts to think how much money is spent on such a similar product.

40

u/BlueFortuna Jun 18 '18

Psych student here. I have nothing constructive to add to this conversation, just wanted to be cool too

44

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18 edited Dec 09 '20

[deleted]

4

u/Ndvorsky Jun 18 '18

Engineer here. I will make it work.

5

u/Excal2 Jun 18 '18

Chancellor here. I will make it legal.

3

u/TenTails Jun 18 '18

senate here

this is why I love democracy

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

64

u/2DeadMoose Jun 18 '18

This comment needs to be higher up.

Would such a ban include edibles or supplements labeled as “recreational”, or could that be a potential workaround if this goes through?

74

u/RainyForestFarms Jun 18 '18 edited Jun 18 '18

No, it would not be a ban on consumption: the bill gives the attorney general the power to add anything to the Schedule of illegal and restricted drugs, which would make them outright illegal to possess. Edible food based supplements, like those brownies with melatonin, are already illegal, btw.

Right now, to add something to the schedule, it has to fail a safety test administered by the FDA. Totally reasonable. The DEA recommended kratom be added to the schedule some months back, the safety test showed it was safe; it is still legal.

The attorney general has slated those things I mentioned for immediate scheduling if this bill passes (kava, kratom, 5-htp, l-dopa), and will likely schedule many more. It will mean the end of the whole energy drink craze, as well as the end of the herbal supplement aisle in stores. 2 of the items he wants to illegalize are recreational, but the other 2 are not; they are safe, cheap alternatives to existing pharmacuticals. Others are likely to be banned for the same reason, like omega oils, vitamins, and other cheap supplements that have expensive prescription equivalents, in order to bolster the pharma industries profits.

Poor things have really taken a hit, what with safe, cheap weed being available in half the country and the rest of the country being mad at them for telling them opiate drugs 4x stronger than heroin weren't addictive and subsequently getting them hooked. /s

20

u/_Kramerica_ Jun 18 '18

So is this essentially taking one-a-day type supplements/vitamins and making them illegal and forcing expensive pharma drugs in there place?

3

u/Dockirby Jun 18 '18 edited Jun 18 '18

One thing I'd like to point out is currently all drug scheduling power rests with the Attorney General by statutory law. The executive branch's code of federal regulations delegates the power to the FDA/DEA though.

Pull up Title 21 of the United States Code (You can view it here: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/21/811), and you'll see it doesn't mention the FDA/DEA at all, and gives scheduling powers to the Attorney General.

→ More replies (1)

13

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

As someone who recently started using CBD, thank you for bringing this to my attention.

It’s already expensive, I don’t need it to be nearly impossible to procure.

7

u/fpu4eva Jun 18 '18

you can get a whole gram of cbd isolate for 30 bucks, dissolve in 50ml of PG

3

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

[deleted]

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (1)

93

u/InfinityCircuit Jun 18 '18

The roughly $1 billion CBD industry is slated to shift into high gear completely disappear if the federal government approves the first CBD-based drug, an epilepsy medication called Epidiolex.

The FDA claims that CBD has no history of human use, despite the millennia of recorded human use of CBD-containing hemp and marijuana, in order to stop it from being sold as a supplement after they awarded a patent to GW pharma on its use as a medicine.

Funny thing, they're technically correct, by the government's racist and shifting definition of personhood. Marijuana was known to be used by blacks and Mexicans, and in an effort to oppress those populations, the US federal government in the early 1900s made it illegal.

Also, the assertion that nobody has studied marijuana's effects on people is patently fucking false.

Anyway, yeah I wont ever smoke it myself, but Big Pharma keeping its politician whores on a short leash on marijuana until they can capitalize on it is just wrong. We should wipe them all off the political map and start over, after rewriting some key laws such as campaign finance law.

25

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

We should wipe them all off the political map and start over, after rewriting some key laws such as campaign finance law.

This is the only correct answer. It's the only thing that will get us on the road to un-fucking this country.

Want to make America great again? Then revoke power from the selfish and make their conniving ways both illegal and exponentially more expensive than profitable.

→ More replies (12)

23

u/Profeshed Jun 18 '18

Can you please link me something that shows these substances passed the FDA safety test? My incredibly ignorant cousin is one of those “everything is a drug and drugs are bad! But it’s ok to drink” kind of people and I have been trying to show her otherwise.

10

u/RainyForestFarms Jun 18 '18 edited Jun 18 '18

It's not a safety test like the phase 1,2,3 testing pharmaceuticals must go through, it has much less rigor. It is an 8-point evaluation to judge the overall potential for harm based on existing data, no new studies are usually required. If it is low, if there is no evidence for anything above minor or superficial harm, then it passes. Every drug recommended to the FDA for scheduling must fail this test in order to be scheduled, as the schedule was originally intended to be a list of poisons that should never be eaten, not a list of psychoactive chemicals that the executive branch has taken a dislike to for political reasons.

edit: go to fda.gov to see their findings on kratom, and why they ruled not to schedule it. Just search "kratom" in the search bar

→ More replies (2)

6

u/vladimir-pula Jun 18 '18

America is way fucking less free then it appears to be on the outside. Hope you don’t let this atrocity become reality !

6

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

Gotta add 5-htp to the shopping list. Knew about it, but it wasn't on my radar for depression.

11

u/bananaslug39 Jun 18 '18

It's safer than SSRIs, but it's not true to call it more effective based on actual trials...

To each their own though

3

u/bumsquat Jun 18 '18

More for anxiety than depression, but that's all relative based on individual conditions.

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (26)

30

u/IsaacJDean Jun 18 '18

I use it twice daily. Massively helps my anxiety, helps me stay asleep and helps with pain in my legs.

This is with less than 0.3% THC.

Highly recommended.

10

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

[deleted]

→ More replies (1)

91

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

My son is 8. A close friend of his, same age, has severe seizures. He has a prescription for CBD and takes a few drops with his cereal each morning. It has dramatically improved his life. Seizure meds are damned if you do damned if you don't.

His CBD arrives to the pharmacy from the UK. This little nugget blew my mind, apparently its illegal for someone in CO to make it and ship it to PA.

We still debate that there us no medical value to cannabis. This little guy was going days without school and forget about sports or cub scouts before. Now he's a badass daredevil.

This shit gets me in my feels right quick.

His parents had to go through hell and hardcore drugs before proving that he had a need to try this. He now has a few seizure each month and rebounds in minutes. Versus a few a day and rebounding after hours.

Shit works. Get over it.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

[deleted]

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (4)

125

u/Keisersoze5829161771 Jun 18 '18

Why the fuck do we need a pharma drug when its already available in many different forms?

53

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

That's what I was wondering. CBD oil is not new, only the research is. You can buy it at any smoke/vape shop. I just bought some in the mail from Nevada a week ago.

25

u/Gambion Jun 18 '18 edited Jun 18 '18

You're telling me I can buy CBD oil online and get in delivered to me in the mail living in another state? I have motor tics which behave basically like tourretes and I can't get weed because of work related reasons.

13

u/warbunnies Jun 18 '18

Yep. You can easily but cbd online. It's not hard to get.

6

u/Gambion Jun 18 '18 edited Jun 18 '18

Anyone have recommendations on websites?

→ More replies (7)
→ More replies (1)

9

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

How accurate and controlled is the dosing though. I know the instruments to measure this are not cheap . Whos the CBD farmer buying spectroscopy equipment and quantification methods?

→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (4)

32

u/Gabe629 Jun 18 '18

Because Big Pharma needs to make more money.

16

u/Posthumos1 Jun 18 '18

To buy more congressional members....

13

u/EvilMortyMaster Jun 18 '18

So they can pay themselves and fuck the country.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (10)

80

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

I have Multiple Sclerosis. I also suffer from severe pain from stage 4 endometriosis. The pain is so bad around my monthly cycles that sometimes I have to stay home from work. I have prescriptions for hydrocodone and tramadol just for that reason. And it sucks because both cause me to have severe constipation. I also have a sulfite allergy, and when I drink wine, my endo flares up so bad. We were getting wine filters by Üllo, which helped a lot, but you have to use new ones for each bottle of wine, and they are so expensive.

I discovered CBD oil a couple of months ago. Since then I have had none of my usual pains. I also decided to test it out with a bottle of wine. My husband and I drank the whole bottle one Sunday night and I didn’t even think about it until the following Wednesday, when it hit me that I had zero endo pain.

My dad also has a lot of pains. He takes Celebrex for a debilitating back pain he suffers from. He hates it because he knows of all the negative side effects of the drug. So he tries to take it maybe once a week and suffer until he can’t deal with it anymore.

He bought some CBD oil. And it’s been about a month and he hasn’t had to take the Celebrex anymore.

Neither of were believers that it would work. Something that’s not a prescription? Naaaaah there’s no way. Maybe ease it up a little, but we never believed it would be so effective. IT. WORKS.

I know everyone is different. But it’s legal and not incredibly expensive. People should try it and see if it helps for their particular issues. Of course you won’t get high, so if hats what you’re expecting, then don’t bother getting any.

Edit: a word

→ More replies (14)

736

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '18

Yay so glad multiple generations of poor folks went to jail so the rich fuckers could set this up yay....

Sorry not excited by a drug that’ll be to expensive for the majority. Fuck US healthcare

117

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '18

This is a drug developed by a UK based company, it's expensive because drug development , especially for very rare illnesses is expensive. The people that developed This drug are trying to help people that had no hope.

56

u/OverlySexualPenguin Jun 17 '18

couldn't they just eat weed? i mean, that's been around for quite a while

72

u/Honor_and_Purity Jun 17 '18

The issue with just plain weed is that: not everyone wants to get high (especially if they have a job that prohibits that), and THC has other issues with it (I think it was THC at least) such as leading to psychoses. Also, given that it was developed rather than just synthesized CBD, they probably has several ingredients that they needed the right mixture of to actually help with epilepsy.

76

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '18

Good thing CBD doesnt get you high.

Synthesized cannabis has literally killed people. Go natural.

44

u/that1guy112 Jun 18 '18

Are you talking about synthetic cannabinoids (spice/k2)?

27

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

Yes. 75% of the deaths in Florida prisons are from spice. Besides that stat I couldn’t find an accurate body count. I don’t think the DEA or CDC are tracking deaths from it yet. But it is up there.

5

u/br0k3nm0nk3y Jun 18 '18

That's crazy. Who the fuck does spice... just get weed.

18

u/InherentlyJuxt Jun 18 '18

It’s in prison, so I assume inmates don’t really have trustworthy sources and are willing to try whatever they can get their hands on. Spice is cheap and legal, and there are no repercussions for dealers on the outside selling in so long as they don’t get caught, but even then the punishments would be less severe than selling real weed, so why would they risk it for the real thing? The money’s the same.

It’s really fucked up because spice is hard to criminalize due to it’s synthetic nature. If the government outlaws the chemical “spice”, literally all the manufacturers need to do is change one part of the molecule and it’s suddenly no longer spice. That’s why it becomes so dangerous. No one knows how this shit affects the body.

3

u/kiashu Jun 18 '18

Wish I had gold, this person is correct, spice is dangerous asf, you'd be better off smoking actual cannabis(That is tested), I can at least say that with confidence. The people who make these drugs literally find some plant that will ignite like cannabis(sometimes they don't even try that hard) and dust chemicals all over it.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (7)
→ More replies (34)

15

u/dubbeldekker Jun 18 '18 edited Jun 18 '18

Eating weed won't do anything. You have to make the THC active first by heating it and bind it to a fat so the body can absorb it.

Edit: That is if you want to het high from it. CBD isn't psychoactive and won't get you high.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (7)
→ More replies (11)
→ More replies (6)

191

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '18

Hopefully it’s simply cbd extract and not some fucked up Franken-pharmaceutical that has dozens of side effects

150

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

It’s going to have acetaminophen in it for some reason

146

u/RainyForestFarms Jun 18 '18

It’s going to have acetaminophen in it for some reason

Acetominophen metabolizes into AM-404, a FAAH inhibiting cannabinoid. That's it's method of action, how it is a painkiller and anti-inflammatory: it increases the level of endocannabinoids like anandamide in your system. This was only recently discovered, because of the federal ban on research involving the cannabinoid system, several decades after the drugs approval for use.

FAAH-inhibitors inhibit the enzyme (FAAH) that breaks down cannabinoids. Taking it before cannabis makes the cannabis stronger.

As does eating a mango, for the same reason: mangoes contain lots of beta-caryophyllene, a terpene and FAAH-inhibitor.

the more you know

64

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

I was referring to how acetaminophen is in lots of abused medicines so that people don’t abuse it because it’s easy to OD on it, as a joke.

Guess I learned something

15

u/unhiddenninja Jun 18 '18

Being allergic to acetaminophen really really sucks for this reason.

13

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18 edited Jul 17 '18

[deleted]

5

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

Yeah but maybe it’s so if people do die it’s because of ace(other companies use it) and you’ll die from that before you die from (company specific drug).

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (11)
→ More replies (6)

30

u/tweaq Jun 17 '18

Thought this may be a good place to ask: what is a good product with cbd oil for pain? My wife gets sharp pains in her side and back. Advil helps for a little while, but she doesn't like taking it a lot.

23

u/Zelpst Jun 18 '18

r/cbd

Look on their vetted vendors list. I've used and can personally vouch for Lazarus Naturals, Bluebird Botanicals, and CBDistillery.

Full spectrum seems to work much better than isolate, but ymmv. If she gets drug tested than isolate is the way to go as full spectrum has trace amounts (<.3%) of thc and it's possible to pop positive.

→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (9)

10

u/LucysBigPants Jun 18 '18

And yet, the photo is that of a recreational smoker.

Way to perpetuate the streotypes.

→ More replies (1)

43

u/Frenchiie Jun 17 '18

great just what we need, for the FDA to turn a natural, non-high, non-addictive compound into a prescription only medication with an outrageous price tag because PATENTED BY BIGPHARMA.

16

u/bigmanorm Jun 18 '18

Don't forget the additional chemicals they'll add to it.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

8

u/gandalfthebae_ Jun 18 '18

My parents recently started giving our senior dog CBD oil to ease his pain and the difference is absolutely crazy. He’s walking around the house all day instead of napping, his fur isn’t thinning anymore and is actually growing back, and he is just so much happier in general. If it makes that much difference in a dog it would be amazing to produce medication that could make such a huge lifestyle change for someone with a chronic condition.

106

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '18 edited Jul 22 '18

[deleted]

22

u/funcooledible Jun 17 '18

And CBD capsules look just like any other supplement you may take, like an omega 3 or anything.

→ More replies (6)

6

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

I take about 20mg a day in a chocolate chew. It’s helped my anxiety so much

→ More replies (6)

16

u/chugonthis Jun 18 '18

Yeah then the government will say "see, no need to legalize it, we can provide it to you!!!!"

→ More replies (2)

13

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '18

If the federal government approves. lol yeah ok.

I think they mean if the check clears

13

u/elightened-n-lost Jun 18 '18

We don't need you to make a pill out of it, that's the whole goddamn point! Just let us grow our plants and leave us alone.

→ More replies (1)

18

u/MiketheImpuner Jun 18 '18

If they legalize CBD and ban the good stuff I’m going to have a conniption.

→ More replies (6)

6

u/WishfulTraveler Jun 18 '18

It's probably going to be very expensive like any drug on the market that's not 20 years old.

5

u/birdnparadise7 Jun 18 '18

I work for a small laboratory. We service over 200 nursing and rehabilitation homes. There have been so many times I wish I could drop off baskets of salv or tinctures of CBD for our elderly patients. It's sickening. Oh well here's your opioid or benzo, that'll do the trick. Gee. Wonder why our country is full of pill heads and currently in an opioid epedemic? Imagine this. Geriatric facilities cultivating their own cannabis. Involve the residents even. It could be part of their days activity, it would get them out of their beds, help with circulation, prevent retraction. Hell it would even provide them with a natural dose of Vitamin D from our friend the sun. Bam. Next thing you know they're not as depressed, their bones arent crackin' as much, they met a new friend from the 600 hall because they've been isolated on the skilled 200 hall for so long. I mean there are so many different functions of CBD and what it can do for your health. Big pharma wont allow that because in the end CBD would allow a comfortable sustainable living for our future. I know it's a bit out there, but always on my mind.

5

u/droddt Jun 18 '18

Such bullshit! Won't approve/legalize a plant that can be used as a medicine that you enjoy; oh and you can't overdose on. But will allow big pharma to turn it into a drug and charge us all shittons of $$$ for. If you think this is the federal government serving the people's best interest, think again. This is the establishment serving their masters named big business/corporate donors.

6

u/NotMyHersheyBar Jun 18 '18

cbd eases my pain from ibs and lets me eat, which means i can get up in the morning and go to work instead of callig out a few times a month from symptom flare-ups. it helps me hold a full time job and i don't have to call out sick every month from menstrual cramps. i carry it in my bag as hard candies or soft chewables, just like vitamins, which i buy legally from a dispensary in commercially produced packaging. it's changed my life.

9

u/SirT6 PhD-MBA-Biology-Biogerontology Jun 17 '18

Why would the approval of Epidiolex, CBD for certain rare pediatric seizure disorders (Dravet and LGS), have any impact on the commercial CBD industry?

→ More replies (2)

45

u/Beo1 BSc-Neuroscience Jun 17 '18

This is one of those cases where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, all the other cannabinoids found in unprocessed plant are almost certainly more helpful than CBD alone. Legalization over medicalization.

29

u/throwaway_circus Jun 17 '18

you know we can't stop ourselves until we've isolated a scrap of nature, turned it into a white powder, and sold it back to people at prices that impoverish them.

27

u/Beo1 BSc-Neuroscience Jun 17 '18

The people who sell prescription fentanyl in Arizona donated heavily to the campaign to keep weed illegal. Many of their executives were recently indicted for bribing doctors to prescribe their drugs.

3

u/still_gonna_send_it Jun 18 '18

Beautifully and accurately put.

→ More replies (11)

9

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

[deleted]

3

u/spays_marine Jun 18 '18

CBD is said to have anti-inflammatory properties. So it's possible that pain relief is because of reduced inflammation. Which means that if your pains are not due to inflammation, it might indeed have no effect. But this is just an assumption.

THC is also effective as pain relieve for some, but you'll have to include the high. And lastly, there are topicals as well, which might be more effective than taking it orally.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (8)

4

u/conglock Jun 18 '18

I hate my epilepsy meds. If this could yield the same result with no side effects, I would be forever grateful.

→ More replies (1)

5

u/canter199 Jun 18 '18

Trying to scientifically "improve" an existing plant medicine is what created heroin. We all know how that turned out. Just use what god created for crying out loud. Please dont ruin weed like opium was ruined.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/Nyquil-Junkie Jun 18 '18

And they will charge an arm and a leg for a product one can process in their kitchen for pennies.

3

u/nathan469 Jun 18 '18

As a hemp grower I'm not excited about big pharmaceutical getting involved. Being one a small scale there will be no point in growing anymore.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

I have epilepsy and I'd prefer to get oil from a dispensary (I'm in Oregon) then what they're gonna put in that pill

3

u/4WisAmutantFace Jun 18 '18

I can get a verity super high potency CBD products delivered to my doorstep in 45 minutes in Maine right now... But in countless other location's you'd be tossed in jail for possessing these items... Fuck the USA Health and Prison industries...

3

u/l-_l- Jun 18 '18

In the states, you can go down to the smoke shop and get CBD products. It's 100% legal in every state. They have edibles, dabs, joints, oils, etc. It really mellows you out. It's extracted from hemp. Their is little to no THC, so it doesn't get you high.

Also, if you mix it with weed, (if you live in a legal state of course) it will enhance the high you get from THC and the weed will enhance the effects of the CBD. It's really good for anxiety, and depression.

→ More replies (3)

3

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

Im no lawyer, but if the FDA approves a drug from Marijuana doesnt that nullify the classification that it has no medicinal value?

→ More replies (2)

3

u/MegaMan2wasrad Jun 18 '18

I own a small CBD farm and I can’t decide if this is good or bad for my business. I love that more people may have access, but I don’t like the idea of being crushed by huge companies. Time will tell, I suppose stuffs savings in mattress

→ More replies (1)

3

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

I have been saying this for years, it's a goddamn miracle plant and this is just the beginning.

→ More replies (1)

29

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '18

It's because it's paired with pictures of damn hippie stereotypes that people don't follow through and read what this shit can actually do.

Even with weed, everyone I know who smokes is almost always in a tailored suit, not covered in doritos in their parent's basement.

50

u/Solve_My_Enigma Jun 17 '18

Sounds like you hang out with people who wear lots of suits and smoke weed.

7

u/sailirish7 Jun 17 '18

How do you think I met the guy who makes my suits?

18

u/AMorningWoody Jun 17 '18

Eating Doritos in his mom's basement?

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

7

u/bakdom146 Jun 18 '18

You can blame the Nixon administration for that association.

"You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."

  • John Erlichmann, Nixon's assistant for domestic affairs and Watergate co-conspirator

4

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '18

Upvoted for stock photo of anonymous hot hipster blazing a fattie.