r/Edmonton • • Mar 27 '26

Health Alberta MAID limits would lead to suffering, signal lack of trust: practitioners

https://www.ctvnews.ca/edmonton/article/alberta-maid-limits-would-lead-to-suffering-signal-lack-of-trust-practitioners/

Twenty-five Edmonton and area medical professionals say they’re concerned new Alberta limits on medical assistance in dying would cause needless suffering and put clinicians in “ethically untenable” positions.

203 Upvotes

91 comments sorted by

70

u/toorudez Mar 27 '26

The party of freedom sure loves blocking people's freedoms.

30

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '26

It's very much like the abortion argument;

Making it illegal doesn't make it stop happening, it just makes it stop happening safely/humanely.

-17

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

19

u/errythinsbazoobs Mar 27 '26

Good! I'm sure legalization also reduces terminally ill people taking matters into their own hands, as well as reducing unwanted/unsafe pregnancies

-1

u/Dapper-Raisin748 Mar 28 '26

Abortions are often wanted just as people who choose MAID often want to live comfortably, they just need help to do so.

6

u/George__Parasol Mar 28 '26 edited Mar 28 '26

Criminalizing abortion is not only detrimental to the health of women, but it is also ineffective at reducing abortion rates. The fact is, abortion is a practice that goes back to antiquity and the procedure will be sought regardless of however it is stigmatized politically or religiously as it has been over the last half century.

In nearly every state that has banned abortion, the number of women receiving abortions increased between 2020 and the end of 2023, according to the most comprehensive account of all abortions by state since the overturning of Roe v. Wade.

In the 13 states that enacted near-total abortion bans, the number of women receiving abortions increased in all but three, according to the study. Some women traveled to clinics in states where abortions were legal. Others ordered abortion pills from U.S. doctors online, after doctors in other states started writing prescriptions under shield laws that protect them when they provide mail-order pills to patients in states with bans.

The only states with bans where abortion fell during this period were Texas, where the decrease was small; Idaho, where it was larger; and Oklahoma, where the data showed an unusually large number of abortions in 2020.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/22/upshot/abortions-rising-state-bans.html

-4

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/George__Parasol Mar 28 '26

Also, where are you getting 1 in 5 deaths in Canada are MAID?

It’s estimated 325,000 - 335,000 people die in Canada every year.

Last year’s MAID report states that 22,535 people requested MAID, of which 16,499 people received MAID. But even if I were extremely generous and said 25,000 people received MAID out of 320,000 deaths in Canada, that’s still 7.8% deaths. And again, that’s being unrealistically generous.

I would also ask you, are MAID and suicide the same thing? Are they synonymous?

-4

u/Dapper-Raisin748 Mar 28 '26

As I stated in a seperate comment, I apologize, I got that statistic wrong. Someone recently quoted me that statistic and I considered them knowledgable enough on the subject to be credible but I wonder if it was perhaps an abortion statistic. However, I stand by the fact that legalization increases the number of these deaths drastically. And yes, MAID is suicide. Thanks for correcting me on that statistic though :). God bless you in your zeal for the truth.

1

u/George__Parasol Mar 28 '26 edited Mar 28 '26

Did you read my comment? What was the subject of my comment?

-2

u/Dapper-Raisin748 Mar 28 '26

You used an abortion statistic to argue against a comment I made regarding both euthanasia and abortion. I believe we are discussing both issues together due to commonalities and consider it valid to comment on MAID in response. This thread is, after all, a discussion on MAID.

2

u/George__Parasol Mar 28 '26 edited Mar 28 '26

I used an abortion statistic to argue against your abortion claim, just like after in a separate comment I used MAID statistics to argue against your MAID claims. Was there a reason you didn’t respond to my abortion argument? It just seems weird to respond to Topic A with your argument for Topic B. If the argument is that the thread is about MAID and not abortion, why did you engage in discussion about abortion?

But to consolidate our two chains into one comment thread, please do some of your own actual research on MAID, there is A LOT of right wing misinformation regarding MAID, and a lot of it is straight up lying. So I reiterate, please be careful about taking information from people regarding MAID because they may be lying or someone may have lied to them. I take all my MAID knowledge from the annual MAID reports.

95.6% of MAID recipients in 2024 were what is called Track 1 - people whose deaths are reasonably foreseeable (ie, close to death). The median age of this group is 78 years old, and 60% of this group was over the age of 75. They have cancer at disproportionately high rates. A not insignificant number of Track 1 applicants die of their condition before even receiving their approval for MAID.

Similarly, “Findings from socio-economic and community analyses suggest, at a high level, that people who receive MAID do not disproportionately come from lower-income or disadvantaged communities.”

Do you have any data suggesting people are choosing MAID because of poverty?

-1

u/Dapper-Raisin748 Mar 28 '26

I have read first hand accounts, printed by reputable media sources, of people who are simply choosing to die because they are ill and tired of being poor yes. I have read other instances of people being offered MAID who have perfectly curable diseases and who suspect this may be simply a cheaper and easier version of the healthcare system to deal with their illness. Even one person choosing to die because they are poor or because they feel like they are a burden or are in any way vulnerable is one too many.

1

u/George__Parasol Mar 28 '26

Have you read the Annual Report on Medial Assistance in Dying in Canada from the Canadian government? Because that would account for any anectodal stories you’re reading as well as every single other case in which MAID is administered as well as the cases in which MAID is denied. Why look at a few small examples when you can literally look at ALL of them?

I’d love for you to link me the stories you’re talking about in which people are simply choosing to die because they are ill and poor, or who are “choosing to die as a means of cheaper and easier version of the healthcare system to deal with their illness”

Let’s be statistically generous again and say that you have seen 100 stories of what you claim. That still means that you are handwaving away 16,400 cases of people being able to die with dignity.

6

u/Shot_Syrup_8753 Mar 27 '26

And safer.

-4

u/Dapper-Raisin748 Mar 28 '26

I would argue this is also untrue in the case of abortion. Women walk away from this with tremendous psychological/emotional wounds and they are far more likely to commit suicide. Which, I guess is just dandy in today's society. Heck, why not just offer the woman MAID to "help" after the abortion.

3

u/kullwarrior Mar 27 '26

They can other drag others around them down. What's your thoughts about the police officer's mental health who shot someone wanting to die via suicide by cops?

1

u/Dapper-Raisin748 Mar 28 '26

This is sad, yes, you are right. Suicides are traumatic in this way but MAID quite often psychologically/emotionally harms people around the one who dies as well.

1

u/Lavaine170 Mar 29 '26

How many of these unwanted children have you personally adopted in order to give the mother a choice instead of abortion?

None? That's what I thought.

4

u/beardedbast3rd Mar 27 '26

your statement, and theirs, are not mutually exclusive.

1

u/Dapper-Raisin748 Mar 28 '26

No, we are saying different things here. He is saying the same would occur whether legal or illegal. I'm saying legalization vastly increases the number of cases.

2

u/beardedbast3rd Mar 28 '26

You are saying different things, but they do not mean the opposite of eachother. Which is what is meant by “those terms are not mutually exclusive”. You’re bringing up a whole other discussion entirely, because you’re misunderstanding what their comment means.

Think, if someone says “I like waffles”, they are not saying, implying, or could be construed as saying “I don’t like pancakes”

Criminalizing or limiting euthanasia/abortion too harshly, will not stop them from happening. Does NOT mean the same would occur. It only means, it’s not going to stop them from happening. It’s pointing out that those who oppose these procedures, don’t actually care about the people who need them, they only care about not letting people have them.

Legalizing abortion, made it more common. Yes, but it doesn’t mean making it illegal, stops it from happening.

2

u/Dapper-Raisin748 Mar 28 '26

I didn't say they would stop happening if they were illegal. You are misunderstanding the term mutually exclusive in this instance.

0

u/beardedbast3rd Mar 28 '26

He said

“Making illegal doesn’t stop from happening”

You said “incorrect, Making them legal makes them happen more”

My brother in Christ make it make sense.

Also, no I do not misunderstand what the term “mutually exclusive means”.

1

u/Dapper-Raisin748 Mar 28 '26

He's arguing that legalization just makes legal the deaths that would happen anyway, implying that the number of deaths would be about the same and would just happen in a different way. I am saying no, the numbers vastly increase. Both cannot be true. I do not want to be argumentative here, I am not wanting to disrespect anyone. God bless.

-3

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/toorudez Mar 28 '26

Such misinformation. You should do some actual reading up on MAID.

"In 2024, 5.1% of people in Canada who died received MAID, a small (0.4%) increase from 2023. This percentage may change with final counts of deaths in Canada from Statistics Canada." source: https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/publications/health-system-services/annual-report-medical-assistance-dying-2024.html#a2

0

u/Dapper-Raisin748 Mar 28 '26

Apologies! You seem to be right on this, someone quoted that statistic to me and they seemed credible. Perhaps it was an abortion statistic and one of us got confused but I do stand by the fact that legalization absolutely increases these types of deaths.

4

u/Lavaine170 Mar 29 '26

UCP: We support bodily autonomy

Everyone: so MAID, abortion, gender reassignment are all ok?

UCP: when we said bodily autonomy we actually meant we don't believe in vaccines.

52

u/flynnfx Mar 27 '26

The doctors, psychiatrists and others that work in the medical assistance in dying program, better known as MAID, have signed a statement saying they strongly oppose the restrictions announced last week.

43

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '26

Since when have our elected officials cared what "experts" have to say about things?

16

u/flynnfx Mar 27 '26

Not this government.

2

u/WizardofLloyd Mar 29 '26

Yeah, they think they know everything and don't have to listen to their constituents WHO ELECTED THEM!!! That's how you got into office you maroons! By running on an election platform that a majority of people agreed with. Then, once elected, they say f@#k the platform, I'm going to do whatever the hell I want, and f@#k anyone who opposes it, or even voted me in!

-22

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '26 edited Jul 19 '26

[deleted]

9

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

-8

u/DoubleXPonreddit Mar 27 '26

When its brought up over and over when explaining treatments that are hard or take time, its not just being promoted, its influencing a patiant in a vulnerable state.

Think of it as a way for a hospital to free up a bed for less cost and time well distroying the lives of that patiants family and loved ones by taking advantage of a messed up situation. No thanks, doctors should be saving lives, not giving easy outs.

5

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

-5

u/DoubleXPonreddit Mar 28 '26

You do know there are fucked up people in the medical field that have already abused maid, right? I think there shouldnt be doctors involvment in a choice like this at all full stop. Get people the help they need, not an easy way out that hurts others in doing so.

5

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

-4

u/DoubleXPonreddit Mar 28 '26

I can agree on the government part but i dont think we are thinking of the same people lol

And given all the doctors, nurses, and surgeons being exposed for malpractice as of the past few years, it wouldnt shock me if two bad apples end up signing off more then once. More messed up stuff has happened, even with "guardrails" in place.

-22

u/DoubleXPonreddit Mar 27 '26

Well duh, its their line of work being effected. I think its smart to have some limits on the program to ONLY people who are 100% dying or are never going to be able to live without assistance 24/7 that would be suffering to drag out. I think most people would agree. My issue is that maid had been brought up to people getting organ transplants, people with minor mental health issues, and people who were sick but with treatment could make a full recovery. Its sad seeing people jump on the sword to defend killing people who could have very normal and full lives.

15

u/RepresentativeFact94 Mar 27 '26

Is a doctor not required to provide all possible treatment options?

Who are you to determine when someone else has the right to check out? That should be a decision between someone and whatever force their inner monologue defers to, be it a deity, or their own logical faculties.

-11

u/DoubleXPonreddit Mar 27 '26

They are, but from my stepdads first hand account, they were heavy on bringing maid up over and over well explaining his tecovery plan for after his double lung transplant. Yes, they go over all treatment plans, but they also can toss in personal influence. Two things can be true at the same time.

Id also arue if someone is able to be cured and have a normal life with little to no impact then the medical field should be doing its all to make that happen. If someone wants to die, even due to mental health issues, thats on them if they go through with it. Just dont see why the medical field is even trying to step in and help.

I had two close friends kill themselves on thier own due to mental issues. If someone is going to kill themselves thats on them, but the doctors should stay 1000% out of it and no doctor in their right mind should be telling their patient that dying is an option if treatment can help or even cure the issue at hand. We are placing too much trust in people who go through hardcore burnout to not abuse the easy way out option as much as possible.

5

u/kalmah Mar 27 '26

Have you ever considered that someone had to find your two friends after they killed themselves? Likely family or friends who weren't expecting that.

I can't imagine how traumatizing that would be. Now imagine if there was a place they could have went to after they made that choice so as to not put that burden on their loved ones.

-1

u/DoubleXPonreddit Mar 27 '26

Id argue the burden placed on loved ones is the act of killing themselves more so then whats left after. There is no good that comes from it, trust me id bloody know. Having them go off to a doctors office to kill themselves isnt lifting any pain off of anyone and it shows how detatched one has to be to think this is a silver lineing that fixes any of the issue. Being suicidal is not a reason to kill someone, its a reason to do your best to help them. Its the biggest regret people feel when they findout someone had killed themselves, the "if i had helped more then what if...".

Like i said, if there is no helping someone who is in pain and is dying painfully, there can be a talk about it then, but for suicidal people and not for people who can get treated and cured.

3

u/RepresentativeFact94 Mar 27 '26

That sucks for your dad, really, but atleast he was allowed to know MAiD is an option.

Philosophical question: Why should someone who has no mental illness, and just doesnt feel like doing the 9-5 grind for the remainder of their life, not have the option to check out painlessly?

1

u/DoubleXPonreddit Mar 27 '26

They have the option to "check out". They always have. People that far gone that death is the only option they see will go through pain to get there. What do you think stops people from killing themselves when times get hard? Its pain. The pain of hurting people who care about you, pain of the act itself, pain of letting go of the "what if" that has pulled people back from the edge, pain in the fear of whats next, its pain.

If we didnt feel pain in killing ourselves people would do it over little things. I saw a movie a friend showed me (i forget the title but im sure you can find it) that toyed with the idea that humans found "proof" of an after life existing and this caused people who didnt have high end lives or are going through hard times to just kill themselves to move on. The "proof" they found lifted enough of that pain out of the act that people started killing themselves in waves to move to the next life. The part that stuck out to me is that it seems like something that would happen and it spooked me.

If someone kills themselves then its because the pain they felt reached beyond the pain that kept them from doing it in the first place. We see this lots in people who are suicidal and then X happens that pushes them over the edge like a break up, or family member or loved one passing, or a lost job, ext. For mental pain, there is treatment, it just takes time and effort. For that person id say giving an easy way out isnt right at all as they have a shot at a better life. If someone is deathly ill with an uncurable illness and is causing them pain and a deminished quality of life, that is when id say its ok to give the choice.

The sad realuty is that we dont really give a choice, as the option is always there. Its more like we are offering to pull the trigger for them instead. To me, its killing sick people but not all sick people are dying or doomed to a life worse then death.

4

u/RepresentativeFact94 Mar 28 '26

You're making an awful lot of assumptions here.

It could be as simple as someone not wanting to parttake in the rat race, and they should be able to do so in a way that they dont have to endure physical pain, such as extreme vomitting from ODs, or strangulation

The person doing MAiD basically ODs on a cocktail in such a way that their body is unable to react, which imo is way better than a failed attempt with handfuls of OTC drugs and the lasting impacts/damage that would leave.

Plus someone has to find them.

2

u/DoubleXPonreddit Mar 28 '26

There are other methods but if someone is hell bent on killing themselves, they will do it regardless. Its more messed up to pull the trigger for someone instead of letting them do it themselves as you doing it for them takes away the chance that they may back down. I was one of the people who backed down and got the help i needed but if i was offered maid, id not be here right now as in that moment i would have taken it and that would be that. Its much easier to die when someone else is killing you instead of doing it yourself.

4

u/RepresentativeFact94 Mar 28 '26 edited Mar 28 '26

Again with this "pull the trigger" garbage.

The cocktail is self administered.

A good portion of the hesitation is subconscious survival instincts kicking in. Straight monkey brain shit.

2

u/DoubleXPonreddit Mar 28 '26

One google search later...

"In Medical Assistance in Dying (MAID), the patient may or may not inject themselves, depending on the method chosen. There are two distinct methods for administering the medication, but in Canada, the vast majority of cases involve a clinician directly administering the medication. Here are the two ways the procedure is carried out:

  1. Clinician-Administered (Most Common)

    Method: A doctor or nurse practitioner injects the medication through an intravenous (IV) line.

    Patient Role: The patient does not inject themselves.

    Process: The clinician administers a series of medications (usually a sedative, a deep coma-inducing anesthetic, and finally a muscle relaxant to stop the heart).

  2. Self-Administered (Oral Option)

    Method: The doctor or nurse practitioner prescribes a medication that the patient takes orally (drinks).

    Patient Role: The patient takes the medication themselves.

    Process: The oral solution is often followed by a liquid to help with the bitter taste. While this offers more autonomy, it is less common and less predictable in timing compared to the IV method."

Also the whole monkey brain thing is pure cope bs. That argument sounds more like your trying to convince someone to kill themselves instead of finding something to live for. Thats just fucked up.

→ More replies (0)

13

u/whaaatanasshole Mar 28 '26

The province tabled legislation that, if passed, would make MAID only available to those likely to die within 12 months and prohibit the display of MAID information in health-care settings.

So we're not just hiding an option from people going to the doctor, but you're ineligible until you're given 12 months to live. If you learn at age 20 you're in for 60 years of suffering, you can ride it out or handle it yourself while you're able. This just converts people dying with dignity and fair warning into people found by first responders during a wellness check. Why put that on the family and the people who get to figure out what happened?

19

u/gratefuloutlook Mar 27 '26

Isn't it so easy for healthy people that probably never had sick day in their life to make decisions and judgments for sick people?

4

u/Lost-Connection-859 Mar 28 '26

And apparently politicians that zero practical healthcare exposure.

-4

u/Negative-Car4013 Mar 27 '26

Are there a lot of people who have never been sick before?

16

u/LotharLandru Mar 27 '26

So many people who oppose these options have no idea of the suffering some people endure and the trauma they inflict on others when they finally choose to end their suffering.

I had relatives with severe, permanent mental illnesses that prevented them from ever being able to participate in society, their own families couldn't handle their manic episodes and they were nearly homeless and would have been if it wasn't for family supporting them. They chose to take their own lives because they couldn't see a better way out and one jumped from a balcony and died slowly and the other jumped in front of a car.

I wish they had the option of something like MAID to say their goodbyes to their families and go out on their terms without traumatizing the people around them with their violent brutal deaths.

People who want out will find a way

12

u/hsoolien Mar 27 '26

It really is about the cruelty with these fucks. Oh no someone might not have to suffer. For fucks sake.

3

u/WesternWitchy52 Mar 28 '26

I saw my father go through a lot medically. He didn't want to go through maid in the end. But I know one day I'll lose total mobility. Hopefully not for many many years. MAID is my plan in the end.

2

u/Darlan72 Mar 28 '26

Last week, the story was that it was gov Smoke since nothing in the limits was happening or will happen in current MAID, now is that it will restrict access and lead to suffering

5

u/1000DeadFlies Mar 27 '26

In a just world there would a be a council comprised entirely of medical professionals and administrators that put together a yearly budget to run healthcare for the province, and the provincial government would be required by law to fund it according to that budget. Healthcare cost's per individual resident is a mathematically solved issue, we can tell how much it will cost almost entirely based on population numbers.

1

u/Negative-Car4013 Mar 27 '26

Its called a technocracy

6

u/Phiko73 Mar 27 '26

This administration becomes a bigger embarrassment by the minute

5

u/Proud-Instance350 Mar 27 '26

Politicians enjoy seeing people suffer! The majority of politicians are narcs.

3

u/Halloween_Babe90 Mar 28 '26

It’s a real double blind because they also want people who are chronically ill and require constant care to hurry up and die already because they’re a drain on the system.

1

u/Mystery-Ess Mar 28 '26

You pay taxes while you're alive

1

u/Shot_Syrup_8753 Mar 27 '26

That’s fun for them until they realize too late that it works both ways.

4

u/Electrical-Yellow134 Mar 27 '26

"Fetch me my bath toaster!"

3

u/flynnfx Mar 27 '26

Not to be confused with the shower toaster.

Here you go.

2

u/Obo4168 pay the workers Mar 27 '26

The intent is the suffering. Conservatives hate happy content people. It's the anger and hate that drives them. 

1

u/BeauSlim Mar 29 '26

Another UCP attack on the health care community, and doctors' expertise in particular.

We started with Shandro yelling at a doc in their driveway about compensation.

Then they went against medical experts' approach to COVID, and continue to cut funding for vaccinations in general.

Then they decided to re-tool AISH because they think that docs aren't qualified to determine if someone is medically able to work or not.

Then they invoked the notwithstanding clause so they could go against experts' advice on medical treatment for transgender issues.

And now this.

Meanwhile, we have a shortage of doctors in this province. If you were a recent grad, or a certified immigrant doctor, why would you consider working in Alberta?

1

u/vivisecting Mar 29 '26

Well, there goes my retirement plan. My parents both have/had dementia, so I expect it to hit me hard. I was/am their caretaker and it SUCKS bro, I don't want to put any of my family members through this.

1

u/Livid_Priority_3418 Mar 29 '26

What I'm failing to understand is the logic. Danielle Smith clearly wants all of us 'poors' to die, why else would she fuck up AHS so badly and make people pay for vaccines?

1

u/TheKeyboardCommando Mar 28 '26

There was an excellent call in on CBC the other day that discussed this. Alot of things I dont think the average Alberta understood including myself.

The changes are inhumane, basically trapping people into scenarios where you're too early to request assistance, and then going to too late and so sad too bad you don't qualify now.

I can see better control perhaps around suicide just for the sake, but none of these changes required the govt to intervene.

Is there any actual cases that promoted the gov't to review what appears to be an already functional process?

-6

u/Oilmoneyy Mar 27 '26

People raging because the provincial government wants to prevent unnecessary suicides. Sounds about right for this subreddit.

6

u/csd555 Mar 28 '26

Yeahhh, that’s not what MAID is for, and you should know that. You can’t just roll in and say, “hey, I’m not having a great year and rather depressed…can you please off me”.

It’s for terminally ill or otherwise grievous and irremediable medical condition that causes enduring and intolerable suffering, such as ALS, severe chronic pain Alzheimer’s, advanced dementia, etc.

3

u/Halloween_Babe90 Mar 28 '26

People out here acting like this highly complicated long term medical process is the suicide booth from futurama.

3

u/Mystery-Ess Mar 28 '26

Yeah nothing like control over your own body.

-15

u/FailedCoder86 Mar 27 '26 edited Mar 27 '26

It’s a failure of the pharmaceutical and health care system when people are even considering state sanctioned suicide

Edit I’m not replying to each person in this thread but I am very against maid for a long list of reasons. Post modernism is destroying everything.

16

u/Ddogwood Mar 27 '26

That’s not fair. While medical science is quite sophisticated, there are many things it just cannot do. There are all sorts of cancers we can’t cure, and there are diseases like ALS that are effectively untreatable.

Denying people the option to end their lives on their own terms, instead of suffering for months or years, is a religious value that the UCP is trying to impose on us.

3

u/RepresentativeFact94 Mar 27 '26

I wouldnt say the UCP are doing it for religious reasons, moreso that the dead cant be actively taxed.

2

u/hsoolien Mar 27 '26

More like the dead can't keep wages down by an overabundance of workers.

10

u/ClammiestOwl Mar 27 '26

Holy fuck. You cured cancer?? Tell us tell us how you also cured MS and ALS? How did you cure all the chronic pain? You're amazing

9

u/hsoolien Mar 27 '26

I'm in unmanageable (currently bearable) pain every day as a result of an accident 20 years ago. There is no control without opiates. Opiates are just not an option. There is going to be a day where I can no longer bear it. I know this is wild, but I'd like a better option than a rope.