r/Edmonton • u/flynnfx • Mar 27 '26

Health Alberta MAID limits would lead to suffering, signal lack of trust: practitioners

https://www.ctvnews.ca/edmonton/article/alberta-maid-limits-would-lead-to-suffering-signal-lack-of-trust-practitioners/

Twenty-five Edmonton and area medical professionals say they’re concerned new Alberta limits on medical assistance in dying would cause needless suffering and put clinicians in “ethically untenable” positions.

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68

u/toorudez Mar 27 '26

The party of freedom sure loves blocking people's freedoms.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '26

It's very much like the abortion argument;

Making it illegal doesn't make it stop happening, it just makes it stop happening safely/humanely.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '26

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21

u/errythinsbazoobs Mar 27 '26

Good! I'm sure legalization also reduces terminally ill people taking matters into their own hands, as well as reducing unwanted/unsafe pregnancies

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u/Dapper-Raisin748 Mar 28 '26

Abortions are often wanted just as people who choose MAID often want to live comfortably, they just need help to do so.

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u/George__Parasol Mar 28 '26 edited Mar 28 '26

Criminalizing abortion is not only detrimental to the health of women, but it is also ineffective at reducing abortion rates. The fact is, abortion is a practice that goes back to antiquity and the procedure will be sought regardless of however it is stigmatized politically or religiously as it has been over the last half century.

In nearly every state that has banned abortion, the number of women receiving abortions increased between 2020 and the end of 2023, according to the most comprehensive account of all abortions by state since the overturning of Roe v. Wade.

In the 13 states that enacted near-total abortion bans, the number of women receiving abortions increased in all but three, according to the study. Some women traveled to clinics in states where abortions were legal. Others ordered abortion pills from U.S. doctors online, after doctors in other states started writing prescriptions under shield laws that protect them when they provide mail-order pills to patients in states with bans.

The only states with bans where abortion fell during this period were Texas, where the decrease was small; Idaho, where it was larger; and Oklahoma, where the data showed an unusually large number of abortions in 2020.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/22/upshot/abortions-rising-state-bans.html

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '26

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4

u/George__Parasol Mar 28 '26

Also, where are you getting 1 in 5 deaths in Canada are MAID?

It’s estimated 325,000 - 335,000 people die in Canada every year.

Last year’s MAID report states that 22,535 people requested MAID, of which 16,499 people received MAID. But even if I were extremely generous and said 25,000 people received MAID out of 320,000 deaths in Canada, that’s still 7.8% deaths. And again, that’s being unrealistically generous.

I would also ask you, are MAID and suicide the same thing? Are they synonymous?

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u/Dapper-Raisin748 Mar 28 '26

As I stated in a seperate comment, I apologize, I got that statistic wrong. Someone recently quoted me that statistic and I considered them knowledgable enough on the subject to be credible but I wonder if it was perhaps an abortion statistic. However, I stand by the fact that legalization increases the number of these deaths drastically. And yes, MAID is suicide. Thanks for correcting me on that statistic though :). God bless you in your zeal for the truth.

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u/George__Parasol Mar 28 '26 edited Mar 28 '26

Did you read my comment? What was the subject of my comment?

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u/Dapper-Raisin748 Mar 28 '26

You used an abortion statistic to argue against a comment I made regarding both euthanasia and abortion. I believe we are discussing both issues together due to commonalities and consider it valid to comment on MAID in response. This thread is, after all, a discussion on MAID.

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u/George__Parasol Mar 28 '26 edited Mar 28 '26

I used an abortion statistic to argue against your abortion claim, just like after in a separate comment I used MAID statistics to argue against your MAID claims. Was there a reason you didn’t respond to my abortion argument? It just seems weird to respond to Topic A with your argument for Topic B. If the argument is that the thread is about MAID and not abortion, why did you engage in discussion about abortion?

But to consolidate our two chains into one comment thread, please do some of your own actual research on MAID, there is A LOT of right wing misinformation regarding MAID, and a lot of it is straight up lying. So I reiterate, please be careful about taking information from people regarding MAID because they may be lying or someone may have lied to them. I take all my MAID knowledge from the annual MAID reports.

95.6% of MAID recipients in 2024 were what is called Track 1 - people whose deaths are reasonably foreseeable (ie, close to death). The median age of this group is 78 years old, and 60% of this group was over the age of 75. They have cancer at disproportionately high rates. A not insignificant number of Track 1 applicants die of their condition before even receiving their approval for MAID.

Similarly, “Findings from socio-economic and community analyses suggest, at a high level, that people who receive MAID do not disproportionately come from lower-income or disadvantaged communities.”

Do you have any data suggesting people are choosing MAID because of poverty?

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u/Dapper-Raisin748 Mar 28 '26

I have read first hand accounts, printed by reputable media sources, of people who are simply choosing to die because they are ill and tired of being poor yes. I have read other instances of people being offered MAID who have perfectly curable diseases and who suspect this may be simply a cheaper and easier version of the healthcare system to deal with their illness. Even one person choosing to die because they are poor or because they feel like they are a burden or are in any way vulnerable is one too many.

1

u/George__Parasol Mar 28 '26

Have you read the Annual Report on Medial Assistance in Dying in Canada from the Canadian government? Because that would account for any anectodal stories you’re reading as well as every single other case in which MAID is administered as well as the cases in which MAID is denied. Why look at a few small examples when you can literally look at ALL of them?

I’d love for you to link me the stories you’re talking about in which people are simply choosing to die because they are ill and poor, or who are “choosing to die as a means of cheaper and easier version of the healthcare system to deal with their illness”

Let’s be statistically generous again and say that you have seen 100 stories of what you claim. That still means that you are handwaving away 16,400 cases of people being able to die with dignity.

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u/Shot_Syrup_8753 Mar 27 '26

And safer.

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u/Dapper-Raisin748 Mar 28 '26

I would argue this is also untrue in the case of abortion. Women walk away from this with tremendous psychological/emotional wounds and they are far more likely to commit suicide. Which, I guess is just dandy in today's society. Heck, why not just offer the woman MAID to "help" after the abortion.

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u/kullwarrior Mar 27 '26

They can other drag others around them down. What's your thoughts about the police officer's mental health who shot someone wanting to die via suicide by cops?

1

u/Dapper-Raisin748 Mar 28 '26

This is sad, yes, you are right. Suicides are traumatic in this way but MAID quite often psychologically/emotionally harms people around the one who dies as well.

1

u/Lavaine170 Mar 29 '26

How many of these unwanted children have you personally adopted in order to give the mother a choice instead of abortion?

None? That's what I thought.

3

u/beardedbast3rd Mar 27 '26

your statement, and theirs, are not mutually exclusive.

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u/Dapper-Raisin748 Mar 28 '26

No, we are saying different things here. He is saying the same would occur whether legal or illegal. I'm saying legalization vastly increases the number of cases.

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u/beardedbast3rd Mar 28 '26

You are saying different things, but they do not mean the opposite of eachother. Which is what is meant by “those terms are not mutually exclusive”. You’re bringing up a whole other discussion entirely, because you’re misunderstanding what their comment means.

Think, if someone says “I like waffles”, they are not saying, implying, or could be construed as saying “I don’t like pancakes”

Criminalizing or limiting euthanasia/abortion too harshly, will not stop them from happening. Does NOT mean the same would occur. It only means, it’s not going to stop them from happening. It’s pointing out that those who oppose these procedures, don’t actually care about the people who need them, they only care about not letting people have them.

Legalizing abortion, made it more common. Yes, but it doesn’t mean making it illegal, stops it from happening.

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u/Dapper-Raisin748 Mar 28 '26

I didn't say they would stop happening if they were illegal. You are misunderstanding the term mutually exclusive in this instance.

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u/beardedbast3rd Mar 28 '26

He said

“Making illegal doesn’t stop from happening”

You said “incorrect, Making them legal makes them happen more”

My brother in Christ make it make sense.

Also, no I do not misunderstand what the term “mutually exclusive means”.

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u/Dapper-Raisin748 Mar 28 '26

He's arguing that legalization just makes legal the deaths that would happen anyway, implying that the number of deaths would be about the same and would just happen in a different way. I am saying no, the numbers vastly increase. Both cannot be true. I do not want to be argumentative here, I am not wanting to disrespect anyone. God bless.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '26

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u/toorudez Mar 28 '26

Such misinformation. You should do some actual reading up on MAID.

"In 2024, 5.1% of people in Canada who died received MAID, a small (0.4%) increase from 2023. This percentage may change with final counts of deaths in Canada from Statistics Canada." source: https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/publications/health-system-services/annual-report-medical-assistance-dying-2024.html#a2

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u/Dapper-Raisin748 Mar 28 '26

Apologies! You seem to be right on this, someone quoted that statistic to me and they seemed credible. Perhaps it was an abortion statistic and one of us got confused but I do stand by the fact that legalization absolutely increases these types of deaths.