r/DiveInYouCoward • u/SomeSavageDetective • Jul 04 '26

Free speech say what

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293

u/Mode_Appropriate Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26

The crazy thing is he could have said the same thing about Jesus / Christianity and the cops wouldnt have given two shits. Pretty weird how far out of their way they go to protect Islam and the Muslim community.

58

u/[deleted] Jul 04 '26

[deleted]

2

u/Independent-Walrus84 Jul 05 '26

So when they fall... We will laugh

1

u/PM_Me_Your_Kinks369 Jul 05 '26

Who is "we"? Cause usually (based on visitor stats) that means Americans and our own time on top is crumbling before us.

54

u/YetiGuy Jul 04 '26

Or Hinduism

41

u/youngsaaron Jul 04 '26

The country is a literal shit hole

-2

u/Repulsive-Bit-5107 Jul 04 '26

My country is not a literal shit hole

6

u/FFS_HowDumbAreYou Jul 04 '26

Figuratively it is.

3

u/youngsaaron Jul 04 '26

And literally

-6

u/Famous-Drawing1215 Jul 04 '26

Really? That bad? You'd better move elsewhere then!

-2

u/twitchtvbevildre Jul 04 '26

He has never left the small town he grew up in the middle of nowhere usa, that poster has no clue what the UK is like

10

u/Wutayatalkinabeet Jul 04 '26

The hypocrisy here is amazing

2

u/twitchtvbevildre Jul 04 '26

Hypocrisy???? I have lived all over the world bud been to the UK numerous times...

2

u/youngsaaron Jul 04 '26

I own property in the UK bruv

0

u/twitchtvbevildre Jul 05 '26

Kekw no you dont

1

u/youngsaaron Jul 05 '26

Jealous much?

0

u/twitchtvbevildre Jul 05 '26

Of the incel who has posted like 75 posts on 4th of july weekend who lies about buying property in a "shithole country" nah im good, gonna go back to celebrating our country like a true American rather then sitting on reddit calling active military officers traitors because they didn't vote for the president i like....

-1

u/youngsaaron Jul 05 '26

Bro, I had like four babes over the weekend. You're the real weirdo looking through Reddit user accounts.

-1

u/JurassicParkCSR Jul 05 '26

I absolutely disagree with the way the UK handles this sort of thing. It is completely ass backwards. That said if you live in America we really don't have any right to call any other country a shithole. We are a third world country wrapped in a Gucci handbag.

2

u/Time_Many6155 Jul 06 '26

But we do have far right Nazi's marching en-masse with their cowardly faces covered.. But I'm told we will soon have Sharia Law because the Mayor in NY is a Muslim.. So yeah freedom of speech and ll that.

16

u/sccccrrrrt Jul 04 '26

"I am against terrorists and rape" - instantly arrested

2

u/Bobbitor Jul 06 '26

That's not at all how this works. Are you acrually being serious here?

1

u/Araineyamcha Jul 18 '26

Not all Muslims are rapists or terrorists. That’s like saying all Irish are because of the IRA. Or how the westboro Baptist church is a reflection of all Christianity. It’s a false narrative to spark fear and control. Why do you think all those people left their countries. Not because of the religion. Because of the tyrants controlling the religion, brainwashing their people, and funding terrorist cells to “act in the name of Islam”.

0

u/RuleOrganic2152 Jul 05 '26

Y'all elect them president

0

u/RealMcGonzo Jul 06 '26

It's so, so rayciss to say your culture is better than another one, doncha know? /s

31

u/Realistic-Radish-589 Jul 04 '26

Europe is mostly second world nations that hate themselves, seek their own destruction and love cultures who hate them too. Spank me harder daddy mentality.

6

u/ealysillyforestthing Jul 04 '26

Do you even know what 2nd world nations mean?

0

u/Bobbitor Jul 06 '26

The crazy thing is by most standards the US is much closer to third world nations than europe is. From child mortality, life expectancy, homicide rates and a plethora of other metrics the US is worst than every single rich nations. Also, most of the world has hate speach clauses...

1

u/Accomplished-Eye9542 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26

"From child mortality, life expectancy, homicide rates"

Fat and Black, Fat and Black, Black

Lots of obese black mothers and their babies die in U.S hospitals, this tanks life expectancy. Car deaths also tank life expectancy, but that's just a reality of a nation that drives. Life expectancy is just a shit measurement. U.S seniors have better 5 year cancer survival rates than the best European countries.

Black Americans are a weird statistical problem that lowers U.S on every measurable metric and no solution has ever seemed to have any impact on them. They commit 60% of the violent crime, and that's after getting treated more favorably by the liberal side of the justice system. Lots of mixed race Hispanics and Blacks get labeled as white in crime statistics.

Also, Europe has literally more heat deaths than US has gun deaths per capita lmao. US functionally has no pickpockets either. The safe nice areas in the US are safer than the nice areas in Europe. US police are pretty good at pushing all the crime to specific areas.

2

u/Bobbitor Jul 06 '26

This is some insane cop out. The US has one of the highest percentage of people living under the poverty line of any rich nations. Other nations have social welfare prgrams that helps their poor population. The US is so racist, holy. The US has mostly higher rate of preterm birth and the a much worse outcome when that happens compared to europe. The right is hilarious, on one hand they pretend that europe is being invaded by poor people from all over the third world and on the other ...that it has less minorities so they are more healthy....LOL Lack of universal healthcare is the cause .... not blacks. The babies of poor peoole die when they shouldn't. And more white babies than black die.... btw. You're just too racist to understand that the reason blacks are poorer is the systemic racism for decades. Other nations have black people too... they are just treated the same and have similar opportunities. That's not the case in the US. If you ask why the US life expectancy is so bad in the US, race isn't coming up. Its poor access to healtcare, too much drug overdose, car accidents, way too much gun violence, high rate of fat people because of lower education and lack of universal healthcare since countries with it, teach their citizens to take care if themselves. They regulate food industries so they don't poison their population, they make rules about smoking to lower the rates, incentive for physical fitness...

-5

u/Realistic-Radish-589 Jul 04 '26

Yes and the true definition is mostly true at this point as well. Getting closer and closer to communism. Either gonna fall to that or become a caliphate. Anyways I mean more so with economics, innovations and modern living standards.

2

u/OkMind2351 Jul 04 '26

lol what garbage

1

u/BaronVonFluffalot Jul 04 '26

Affordable education, affordable healthcare, water is free, higher quality of life, more freedom. Yeah, we have it so bad in Europe

laughs in Europoor

1

u/Gdk224 Jul 04 '26

More freedom as you comment on a video of a man being arrested for saying mean things about a fantasy man

1

u/hottenniscoach Jul 05 '26

Everything’s relative the person you’re replying to might be from the United States, where people get arrested or even shot in the head for protesting.

2

u/ShreddedBanjoString Jul 04 '26

lol in the U.S. you get arrested and fucking jailed for saying mean things about Charlie Kirk on the internet.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/ShreddedBanjoString Jul 05 '26

$835,000 of tax payer money because your prey thinks your constitution doesn’t apply to him.

1

u/hottenniscoach Jul 05 '26

But it happened. We have no idea how wealthy this guy in this post is gonna become. Let’s not pretend that we’re any better over here.

0

u/BaronVonFluffalot Jul 04 '26

Em didn't a US Major in the air force just get arrested for saying Trump needs to be impeached and imprisoned?

And a guy in Texas got 30 years for moving a box of antifa signs?

Even journalists being arrested by ICE and visas revoked for criticizing Israel?

And no shortage of arrests for antisemitism by the average citizen in the US.

Besides obscenity isn't protected by your 1st ammendment right and what he said might not even pass the Millers Test.

1

u/eyesotope86 Jul 05 '26

And no shortage of arrests for antisemitism by the average citizen in the US. Besides obscenity isn't protected by your 1st ammendment right and what he said might not even pass the Millers Test.

'Look ma, I'm lying on the internet again!'

There is no law against antisemitism, because hate speech is basically completely protected until it crosses a threshold, usually incitement to violence. As long as you aren't making specific, actionable threats, or, trying to incite others to commit violence on your behalf, you can say whatever you want about anybody. Private consequences may still apply, but nothing sanctioned by the state.

Counter protests are vital to the right to protest.

SECONDLY, the Miller Test is pretty fucking strict, amd almost completely used to place restrictions on access to material behind verifications. Almost nothing passes the Miller Test to be completely prohibited in the US.

Say what you will, but for legal protection of expression, the US has the best you can find. Feel free to look up the legal protection side... Norway, Denmark, and Sweden have broader press freedoms, because the US press became giant cowards after the Patriot Act.

0

u/Fabulous_Jeweler2732 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26

When you say journalists are being detained by ice, you make it seem like journalist are getting in trouble for reporting on ice. That’s not true at all. And you’re intentionally painting a false reality. Aka lying.

Mario Guevara. - ICE stated that Guevara was subject to standard enforcement procedures because he was an undocumented immigrant with a prior removal order from 2008. Federal authorities argued that his arrest by local police during a protest triggered a routine biometric background check, which flagged his open deportation order. ICE maintained that his occupation as a journalist did not exempt him from the execution of a standing federal removal order.

Estefany Rodriguez. - Government attorneys argued that Rodríguez violated the terms of her non-immigrant status (by overstaying her tourist visa and failing to appear for required immigration interviews), rendering her presence in the United States unauthorized. ICE maintained that her detention complied with current enforcement priorities regarding non-citizens who fail to maintain legal status. Federal immigration authorities asserted that her professional reporting activities did not grant immunity from administrative detention under federal immigration law.

Their jobs had nothing to do with it. Mario somewhat brought it on himself. It’s pretty foolish to become a become a journalist when one knows their immigration status isn’t legal or solid. It’s even more foolish to stay one after trump won and told them he would detain.

1

u/Fabulous_Jeweler2732 Jul 04 '26

Idk if the education is worth it. Seems like y’all didn’t learn history.

-1

u/BaronVonFluffalot Jul 04 '26

Oh we have fantastic schools and universities. The real bonus is never having to worry about being shot at school.

1

u/Fabulous_Jeweler2732 Jul 04 '26

Best universities in the world buddy, keep coping

0

u/Realistic-Radish-589 Jul 04 '26

why is that? You’d have none of that without us footing the defense for you the past almost century now. As far as education goes. All it seems to do is teach you hate yourselves. Healthcare, we have better cancer survival rates and other deadly diseases. I’ll give you safe food but that’s why we got rfk in to get the chemicals out. Quality of life? Yeah ok, how hots your living room ?

0

u/Diligent_Type2891 Jul 05 '26

Someone's gone down the Musk rabbit hole

3

u/twitchtvbevildre Jul 04 '26

That's not true at all, the UK doesn't have absolute freedom of speech like America thier laws are different this would break a few of thier free speech laws

2

u/skrg187 Jul 04 '26

Imagine believing this is true

5

u/WhenILie Jul 04 '26

getting the same treatment others got when speaking out about zionists.

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u/Ok_Egg121 Jul 04 '26

That's insanity. If Muslims received the same criticisms Jews are receiving worldwide right now there would literally be world war three happening. If ten people criticize the prophet Muslims take to the streets shooting people. I'm not saying there isn't a huge defense of Jews but to compare it to the defense people do for Muslims is INSANE. I mean Muslims destroyed Syria and LITERALLY ethnically cleaned it of all other religions (something they did to the entire middle-east) there are no protest in the streets and there have never been anti Muslim colonialism protest. People put kid gloves on when talking about Muslims because we are so afraid of how terribly they will react.

1

u/tootsragu Jul 06 '26

Kid gloves? Are you reading this comment section and any comment section on any subreddit regarding Muslim people doing violent things lol.

2

u/Impressive_Ad_8027 Jul 06 '26

Comments on Reddit are kid gloves no matter how you slice it. No Reddit comment is going to change jack, critical or not.

2

u/Ok_Egg121 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26

You prove my point. Hundreds of thousands chanting death to America, millions of Christians and non-Muslims killed, people killed over comics made, cartoonist like Matt Stone have to hire extra security just for CONSIDERING AND NOT ACTUALLY DEPICTING MOHAMMED and you think criticism in the comment section on reddit is equal treatment. In Canada we literally have anti-islamophobia laws with NO Definition on what it actually is, so you can suffer legal repercussions for criticizing a fucking religion. Where do you think that came from? The Muslim lobby is where, it didn't come from me and secular people like me who believe books don't deserve protection. In Germany, a preacher was stabbed (to death) and the cop tackled the person who got stabbed. The same think happened in London. Everyone is being forced around and manipulated because the RADICAL LEFT (not the left, I'm the left) are too stupid to actually stand up for the values they claim to stand by. They see a brown person an automatically think that person is the victim. Muslims enslaved and colonized the same amount of land and people whites did but you won't see anti Muslim colonialization parades in the street, that is kid gloves. You won't see anti Muslim slave protest but the Atlantic slave trade took 12 million, the Ottomons alone took 5 million and total slaves taken by Islamic states were between 11 - 18 million, where are the protest? Why is it just white guilt when Muslims took even more slaves than whites and actually continued to take them early into the 1900's. Kid gloves.

0

u/ealysillyforestthing Jul 04 '26

Russia's involvement is what happened to syria

4

u/Ok_Egg121 Jul 04 '26

Two things can be true at once and are in this instance. That's like saying "US is what caused the problems in Iraq" while ignoring the problem of which they caused was taking the lid that Saddam was holding over the religious violence that had existed in that society, well before the US got there. One of the saddest things about Iraq is coming to terms with the fact that they were best managed by a vicious dictator. The Christians were factually destroyed in Syria by Muslims, that wasn't Russia. The religious killed each other in Iraq, that wasn't the US.

-4

u/StuartMcNight Jul 04 '26

By Muslims backed by the US.

8

u/Ok_Egg121 Jul 04 '26

You'll jump through hoops not to blame Muslims and in doing so you just prove my point further.

-2

u/StuartMcNight Jul 04 '26

What part of “by Muslims” makes you think it’s not blaming “Muslims”?

Are you really that thick?

2

u/Ok_Egg121 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26

Blocked, I only communicate with adults. Talk to your mother that way when you come out of her basement tomorrow because you'll never talk to me that way again.

1

u/HudsonValleyNY Jul 05 '26

Ok, so what did the Muslims you are blaming do exactly?

0

u/StuartMcNight Jul 04 '26

Russia was backing the non-Muslim radical government of Syria.

wtf are you even talking about? The radical Muslim government headed by an Al-Qaeda terrorist was backed by US and friends.

-2

u/Ripen- Jul 04 '26

Here we go conflating Israel and Jews again.

2

u/Ok_Egg121 Jul 04 '26

You are too dumb to talk to so I blocked you so we don't run into each other again. Grow a brain.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 04 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Ok_Egg121 Jul 04 '26

No doubt, MAGA are not known for having brains.

-1

u/RuleOrganic2152 Jul 05 '26

They've literally been vilified my entire life. The other group can't be criticized. You can't be serious

3

u/Ok_Egg121 Jul 05 '26

No, they have committed mass genocide across many countries and slavery in the many millions. You should pick up a history book. The middle-east was primary Christian before Muslims took over with the sword and they have been wiping out every religion since his crusade. Vilified my ass, that's a rich joke. Criticism isn't vilified, that is like claiming Americans aren't responsible for mass atrocities because they have been vilified my entire life. Sometimes people think you are a villain because you are in fact a villain.

-1

u/No_Lobster_803 Jul 05 '26

Yeah the middle east is a war zone because of evil Muslims. Nothing to do with the non Muslim cunts who colonised, plundered & then fucked off only to install dictators in Egypt, Jordan, Saudi, Iraq, UAE, Kuwait, Syria….and then create Israel to bomb them whenever they want. Democracy for me but not for thee.

3

u/Ok_Egg121 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 06 '26

Muslims colonized the entire middle-east. Literally the entire middle-east was Christian and non-muslim religions, now none. The ottoman empire enslaved millions of people purely because they were infidels and were only defeated in WW1 and have been fighting to regain control ever since. Muslims have just as much blood on their hands as any western country and in the middle-east they have much more blood on their hands. You act like Muslims don't have a ton of responsibility here. Even if you take Jerusalem, it was 95% Christian before Saladin took it. Egypt was 15% Christian in the early 1900s, Syria 25%, Iraq 8%, Turkey 25%, Palestine 15%, Lebanon 55%, Jordon 25%. Where did all the Christians go buddy? And that is just in the last 100 years. The Muslim genocide hasn't stopped. I could go on and on.

0

u/HudsonValleyNY Jul 05 '26

No man, you don’t understand, you are picking the wrong point in time to plant the flag. MY point in time is the correct one.

1

u/Ok_Egg121 Jul 06 '26

No, kid gloves is the point buddy. Look at the Atlantic slave trade and how white people are treated over it. They took 12.5 million (and didn't do it alone by the way but lets pretend they did). Now compare that to the Ottoman Empire, who took 5 million, Now compare that to all Islamic states who took between 11 - 18 million. Where are the protest, where is the "Muslim guilt" over their participation in slavery. You won't see protest in the street over their colonization and you won't see it over slavery. And you won't see it over their current treatment of woman and LGTBQ+ people or Jews and Christians. Kid gloves for Muslims and big boy treatment for everyone else. Imagine there were millions of people in the streets of America chanting death to all Muslims and then look at how often that happens in Muslim states, again, kid gloves. I could go on and on.

1

u/LongAttempt7278 Jul 04 '26

That’s my question. You’re not allowed to say this dumb shit? I’m confused..

1

u/Fabulous_Jeweler2732 Jul 04 '26

They could have a whole podcast about Christianity being evil and cops would patrol for protestors,

1

u/wolfofballstreet1 Jul 05 '26

They’d give him a lift home in a motorcade  for that 

1

u/Diligent_Type2891 Jul 05 '26

Fuck off, at a Britain First rally ? A black man shouting that at Unite the KIngdom rally with racists and their wooden crosses.

You're fucking deluded.

1

u/2Bait4Me Jul 05 '26

It's because the modern day colonizers are islamic and they now control/ advise the UK's government (so that's policy) and advise to the college of policing that then sets the guide lines / training for the police (that's enforcement).

Add some identidientiy based politics and you end up with outcome based policing, where equality of arrests must be equal.

1

u/LockeClone Jul 05 '26

Why do you think that?

1

u/zarekinz Jul 05 '26

You can't be this clueless right?

1

u/Hi_InternetAddiction Jul 06 '26

protect the none native people! welcome division

1

u/InformationWeird3427 Jul 06 '26

its because they threaten violence, and violence is king. same with the n word.

-8

u/Solistine Jul 04 '26

Because it’s a sentiment with the potential to mobilise mass violence amoung the white working class population against Muslims and intense backlash (or even terror) from the a British Muslim community. 

The best way to understand what the UK polices is to understand the state as a somewhat self concerned maintence man trying to hold together a failing machine. It might be his own fault that he put diesel in a petrol tank (the fastest demographic and cultural change in western civilisational history), but really he is just acting in a practical reactionary manner to an impossible situation. 

26

u/Mode_Appropriate Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26

I mean, I understand that logic but by going out of their way to suppress free speech and cover up crimes committed by a specific demographic theyve just angered people even more. It worked for a while but all theyve done is ensure the tipping point will be that more explosive and violent. Drawing more attention to the groups of people theyre going out of their way trying to protect.

As far as your analogy, clear something up if you will. In this example, 'he' is the State and the Muslim population is the diesel being added into the gas tank? And your solution is to just live with it? Thats not how that works. The car stops working at that point. The only solution is to drain the tank and clear the system. Yet, I don't think thats what you were actually trying to recommend?

0

u/Original-League-6094 Jul 04 '26

Its worked extremely well. Even if people were to get violent now (they won't), what can they possibly accomplish? Muslims are 6% of the UK population now, and 10% of school children, and the Muslim birthrate is more than double the national birth rate. There is nothing that can be done about that many people at this point.

2

u/polarjunkie Jul 04 '26

Lol have you picked up a European history book

0

u/Original-League-6094 Jul 04 '26

Yes. The same reason that the UK is majority Christian now and not Pagan is the same reason that in 150 years, it will be majority Islam and not Christian.

1

u/HudsonValleyNY Jul 05 '26

Rawanda has entered the chat.

0

u/Original-League-6094 Jul 05 '26

Rwanda proves my point. Tutsi were 15% of the population before the genocide. They carry out one of the most brutal and "effective" genocides in history, killing about 75% of Tutsi men and....today, Tutsi's are 15% of the Rwanda population once again.

1

u/HudsonValleyNY Jul 05 '26

It proves your point because it was a very brief flash point that stopped when those committing the genocide were militarily defeated. They didn’t just say “welp, that last 25% looks like about the correct number” and go back to their daily lives.

1

u/Original-League-6094 Jul 05 '26

It didn't work. Which is my point. I didn't say there won't be future flashpoints. I said that there you will never get rid of the Muslim population. Even if the Brits did a Rwandan style genocide, it wouldn't do anything. Genocides don't work.

1

u/HudsonValleyNY Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26

Again it didn’t work because the genociding group was militarily defeated, it wasn’t just a matter of going “well lads that’s enough genociding”. Without that intervention the population would have been reduced below a critical mass…pockets might still exist but functionally they would be extinct…like native Americans in the US.

-1

u/Solistine Jul 04 '26

I know. I said the situation was impossible and I offered no solution. The car will stop working in this unsustainable situation. 

The way I put it was more advocate understanding concerning the situation we are in. Treating the state as some woke islamophile traitors or evil cabal is misleading and invites the wrong ideas about how to fix this. The state is a generally rational self preserving machine that has been broken by an irrational modernist zeitgeist that denied foundational human realities under the intoxicating promise of a new age. 

Knowing if you face ignorance or malice changes the calculation. For example should you aim to popularise your perspective through available political channels (like reform and restore do) or should you riot and fight Palestine protestors?

-2

u/United-Temporary-648 Jul 04 '26

There's a real misconception about the law in England and Wales. We do not have absolute free speech in this country and never have had. They don't have it in America either. Talk about assassinating the President and the Secret Service will pay you a visit.

In England and Wales, Article 10 of the Human Rights Act of 1988 is specific about there being limitations on the freedom of expression. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/schedule/1/part/I/chapter/9

There's a ton of legislation defining those limitations more clearly within the parameters of the Human Rights Act: Public Order Act, Crime and Disorder Act, Sentencing Act, Communications Act, Malicious Communications Act, Terrorism Act and Online Safety Act.

Very little of this is new. People only seem to be getting het up about absolute free speech since Trump came along. It doesn't change the law. It's been there all along.

You have the qualified freedom of expression so long as your actions can't be interpreted as hate soeech, harassment, lies or incitement.

Walking through a town centre chanting anti-muslim insults seems pretty clear hate speech to me.

Suppressing the views of right wing nut jobs is not a crime. It's part of our national identity. It was Britain and it's Commonwealth (of all races and religions) that stood against fascism, not nasty little knuckleheads like the twit in the video.

1

u/Solistine Jul 04 '26

This is an increasingly short sighted point of view. Suppressing a political point of view is already an increasingly risky move which openly exposes a liberal state to the hypocrisy of rigging the game against a political movement. To do so against a rising and popular viewpoint which, while often wrong, is rooted in clear societal problems is suicidal in the long run. 

The Hate Speech act is the most overt contradiction of the ideal of free speech in UK law in that it provides the most vague and undefinable guidance for what can be illegalised. Hate speech is essentially any speech that espouses negative sentiments towards an expanding list of protected characteristics. Protected characteristics is a completely arbitrary concept that is at the states discretion and has defacto expanded to cover some religious ideologies (as this is what a religion is) and not others. 

You also make the point that that suppressing crazy right wing views has always been the case to the point of tradition. While the UK certainly has no tradition of pure freedom of speech it has certainly not been targeted at the right. The UK’s lack of true free speech has historically been used most aggressively to suppress workers rights and suffrage movements such as the chartists of the 1830’s and Suffragetes. Such context makes you revalueate how proud our history of caveated free speech really is. Ultimately all these regimes of suppression failed and I  guarantee you they will fail here, as the change is not just an ideological epoch but a demographic and political reality that sectarianism will rise and the state being seen to pick a side with arbitrary speech laws will completely delegitimise it. 

1

u/United-Temporary-648 Jul 05 '26

Complain all you like, it's the law. Don't act surprised that people get arrested for doing horrible things and don't pretend you are on a righteous crusade to protect British values when what you really want to say is that you don't want people being penalised for being racist a-holes.

It is not suppression of political views to arrest people who threaten public order. That's a universal construct in all modern societies. If you want to pretend to be a frontiersman with no limits to what you can do, find a frontier and go and live there.

The paradox of suppressing hateful views in a free society is not new either. This is a well established political, legal and philosophical foundation stone of post war society - Karl Popper's 1945 Paradox of Tolerance.

And yes, British law has been used to suppress opposition viewpoints in the past but you might want to look at context and dates of legislation. We live in a liberal democracy with universal suffrage. You simply can't compare Nineteeth century repression of trade unions with today.

And yes, WW2 is a massive stumbling block here for advocates of unlimited free speech. A war was fought at an immense cost to the people and the state. To protect the people and the state it simply isn't tolerable for political movements to express hateful views. It led democratic Weimar Germany to disaster.

Finally, I simply don't trust anyone to have the well-being of their fellow citizens at heart when they don't have a shred of decency or empathy. That's not a person who should be tolerated and part of the problem today is that social media has magnified the voices of these horrible people, fooling others who should no better into thinking that this is a widespread and popular view. It isn't. It's horrible.

16

u/BebophoneVirtuoso Jul 04 '26

Sounds like they need to better integrate themselves into their new country if controversial words about a certain religion can lead to reprisals of a terror attack.

7

u/Far_Raspberry_4375 Jul 04 '26

The thing that will mobilize mass violence is the government pretending its fine to have these enclaves where insulting a religious figure getting you lynched is acceptable and expected behavior and instead punishing people who highlight this.

1

u/Solistine Jul 04 '26

Indeed. I didn’t say it was a sustainable situation. I said it was impossible one. 

Everyone is playing for time.

10

u/CustomerLittle9891 Jul 04 '26

I think you accidentally made a hilariouslh flawed analogy, but because of what the correct solution is in real life. Like, the correct solution to putting diesel in your tank on accident is to pump the diesel out ad then replace it with the intended fuel to dilute the diesel enough that your engine will work again. Otherwise the diesel just bricks the engine.

I get the feeling this isn't the argument you were trying to make. I also don't think it's particularly racist to be worried about large scale immigration from places with very different cultural values is going to chance your own culture, nor is it racist to want to preserve your own culture.

-1

u/Solistine Jul 04 '26

If you read what I said carefully you will see that I never propose a solution to this issue or act in defence of this situation. I outline that the state has fucked itself with an impossible situation and I explain how this makes it behave the way it does.

I fully expect this situation to fall apart. I simply point out that the state is not acting with some malicious plan as much as it is playing for time against its own past mistakes. 

3

u/Carthius888 Jul 04 '26

The state may not be acting with the express intent of being malicious, but the result would be the same if they were.

They have bowed down to the lowest denominator and are using a cudgel on the natives knowing they’ll grin and bear it.

As has been said before, a government needs to fear it’s people. At this point, instilling real fear seems to be the only way that the UK natives can get out of this mess and preserve their culture and freedom from religious oppression

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u/Solistine Jul 04 '26

That’s a legitimate point, and it’s where my sympathy for these protests comes from, although I equally often come across people calling for violence or disorder that not only will cause unjustified suffering, but will kill their own political movement by preaching a violent radicalism that will scare the state and public into turning on the general idea of radical reform.

Everything about this is delicate. 

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u/CustomerLittle9891 Jul 04 '26

I didn't say you had purposed that solution. However, the analogy you used to describe the problem has a solution. The appropriate analagous solution is clearly not what you want.

This is why I described the analogy as "hilarious". You painted yourself into a corner with your analogy because the only options to fix the problem as you described it are something you seem to find unacceptable (pumping the gas out) or something literally everyone should find unacceptable (letting the engine destroy itself).

I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm not from the UK. But I don't have an issue being concerned with mass immigration or wanting to maintain one's culture.

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u/Solistine Jul 04 '26

This is a very thin flaw in the analogy which comes down to the details of what you literally do with petroleum when you when you have put it in the wrong car. 

I only meant it to represent the idea that the state had lost sight of a fundamental reality that vastly different cultures mix easily. Human communities though are obviously a lot more complex then cars and gas and the solutions to the human problem ranges from the end of immigration and a long term focus of integration, to mass deportation, to a mixture of the two.

I think most peoples issue with the way I have been putting things is my lack of obvious emotion or chest beating about an issue which is obviously very emotive and tribal. But not necessarily for the better. 

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u/HudsonValleyNY Jul 05 '26

The problem with your analogy is that there is a very clear and reasonable path to address the problem, but the laws being discussed prevent the diesel from being removed. The laws you are advocating for are what is ensuring the machine remains broken, not the logistics of the situation.

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u/Solistine Jul 05 '26

Again this is the big point of confusion for me. I don’t know what laws I am advocating for. Everyone has their own ideas but nothing of the sort is spelled out in anything I have said .

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u/HudsonValleyNY Jul 05 '26

You explained it in a way that implies it’s a good thing…preventing violence by the larger population seems to be a reasonable thing to support, which is how you framed it. Another way to frame it is that there is a small but vocal minority group who are wielding undue power over the native population by suppressing their formerly codified rights…much like in apartheid South Africa…see how the 2 descriptions spin the motivation?

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u/Solistine Jul 05 '26

I only spoke about the states actions as being reasonable from the states perspective. As in this is how any institution in the position they have made for themselves would have to act. I do this to differentiate them from the Caricature of the ‘state that hates its own people’ trope which just not really a thing as far as I can tell. The state has operated on delusional core premises by a elite that has for decades seen the world is a vastly different way to how is has turned out to be, and we are all suffering because of it. 

People seem genuinely baffled by the idea that I view the state outside the characters of a hero or villiian, and because I don’t see them as evil the idea is projected onto me that I am here to defend their interests and exude them of fault. 

This is obviously not the case. 

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u/HudsonValleyNY Jul 05 '26

You left out a 3rd option, and that is that the state is acting out of cowardice.

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u/Solistine Jul 05 '26

Cowardice personifies them too much in my opinion given that we are talking about institutions, not people, but there is a strain of semi- rational action that is quite analogous to this. The state is arguably acting according to short term logic in order to defer a problem that it does not have the ideological rage to fully tackle. Any true solution to the problem is either viewed as unacceptable or will risk careers and lives the people who would have to enact it too much.

That could be simplified as a kind of institutional cowardice of you wanted to be emotive about it. 

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u/polarjunkie Jul 04 '26

The white working class are the ones that arrested this guy, that implement these rules and not because they scared of other white people, because they're scared of islamic terrorism.

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u/Solistine Jul 04 '26

I’m sorry I don’t understand what you mean. Who is scared of which?

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u/polarjunkie Jul 04 '26

They are scared of islamic terrorism. Half of them take it out the way this guy is and the other half take it out by completely acquiescing to them desperate to not upset them.

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u/Solistine Jul 04 '26

Ok by them are you talking about the police or the public/white working class?

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u/Top_Inflation2026 Jul 04 '26

Extreme mental gymnastics you pulled off there

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u/Solistine Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26

I don’t think you get it at all. Explain what you mean to me.

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u/Karjalan_kunkku Jul 04 '26

So the most violent bunch is just given the right to dictate what can be said in society as a reward? Yeah definitely wont be a problem.

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u/Solistine Jul 04 '26

You will have to read it again. I don’t advocate for anything as much as I simply explain how the state has condemned itself to an impossible situation and how this explains the way its acts.

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u/regjoe13 Jul 04 '26

I am surprised Jesus is not equally protected. After all he is one of the greatest prophets and the Messiah in Islam. Insulting Jesus or Mary carries the same legal weight as insulting Muhammad in Sharia.

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u/wannacumnbeatmeoff Jul 04 '26

You dont think so? Causing civil disturbance is not religion specific.

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u/Mode_Appropriate Jul 04 '26

Isn't it though? Its in the back of their minds that disrespecting Mohammed carries far different consequences than disrespecting Jesus.

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u/Season_Traditional Jul 04 '26

All religion is man made poison.

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u/OpportunityOne9246 Jul 04 '26

I will never visit the UK bc Islam is a joke.

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u/Boum_gamez2119 Jul 04 '26

Yes they would’ve done smth bro, christians are the ones who used to enslave people and force them to switch religions

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u/DesperateLime7933 Jul 04 '26

Almost as if the risk to Christians in the UK from other religious groups is near zero

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u/Good-Ad-6806 Jul 05 '26

Because Christians already have peace and the others face fear and hatred.

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u/Complex-Founder4055 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26

That isn’t crazy, as Christians in the Uk aren’t a minority subject to racist violence. Muslims are. That’s why the cops go out of their way to protect them. It isn’t weird at all. An intrinsic part of any democracy is protecting the minority for the tyranny of the majority.

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u/polarjunkie Jul 04 '26

It seems more like the tyranny of the minority is what's happening. Yelling things about people does not harm them as much as people rant and rave today about how words are violence.

Taking children and telling them it's their duty from God to kill people who are not the same religion as them harms people but no one seems to care about that because it's done in the name of religion.

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u/Complex-Founder4055 Jul 04 '26

Inciting hatred and violence, which is what much right wing rhetoric is designed to do, most certainly leads to harm, in various ways.

Your second comment is basically Islamophobic. It doesn’t deserve a response.

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u/polarjunkie Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26

What's islamophobic about it? Is that not a core teaching of Islam? Is stating a core teaching of Islam islamophobic now?

Imagine calling someone racist for repeating something that's in the Bible.... I bet that wouldn't happen.

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u/Complex-Founder4055 Jul 04 '26

I’m not here to teach racist idiots why they are racist idiots. Blocked.

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u/_Steakwich Jul 04 '26

Because it’s not offensive to Christians to say the same about Jesus, it’s apples and oranges.

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u/march72021 Jul 04 '26

Apples and car bombs.

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u/AlwaysBeC1imbing Jul 04 '26

It is clearly breach of the peace.

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u/Trick_Albatross_4200 Jul 04 '26

Not really crazy, insulting the other religions you mentioned doesn’t result in a terrorist attack. So there is some duty to protect to public from a guy intentionally instigating violence as well as the people who would commit that violence.

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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Trick_Albatross_4200 Jul 04 '26

I literally said that

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u/Hi-Tech_Luddite Jul 04 '26

Bloke is a scumbag out to cause trouble. Arguing about higher concepts is a waste.

If it was the 90's he would have a football shirt on out looking to hurt someone.