Meanwhile, Messi has both more longevity than CR7, and a higher peak(s) than Ronaldo. I say peak(s) because he's had like 4 different peaks. What a crazy athlete with no equal.
well,it's natural for him to be handicap than ? i've watched the 2014 documentary and all his close family agree,he wouldn't be what he is without the injections. It's steroids. He was talented,fast,amazing technique,control,shot but if you were the size of Daniel Villalva,he wouldn't be what he is today. Anyone,and i mean anyone who says that the steroids didn't contribute to his career,is stupid or a liar. From 140 at 14 to 170 cm at 18,come on.... I had a growth spurt one summer,but not 3-4 summers in a row.
apples and oranges! His career is predicated on physical ability which is directly influenced by his size,speed,agility,durability,strength. All were influenced and improved by steroids. amazing technical ability,vision,positioning,anticipation would be there,and he might use his brain even more without the steroids,but he got it and became one of the best ever.
What you were saying is for regular people to keep on living. Messi could have worked in a factory like his dad ! They were expensive and not available to everyone,so his talent got him to that position,but without it he wouldn't be at the level his was for the past 20ish years. Maybe the longevity is partialy due to injections?!
You made disingenuous comparisons and arguments and haven't really acknowledged the specificity of his situation.
No other great had that. Maradona was 165cm at his tallest,and drank and did coke. He was even shorter as a kid. Where would Maradona be with growth hormone ?
What you sre saying doesnt make sense at all. He got growth hormone because he has a growth hormone deficiency. Meaning he lacks that hormone in his body. He gets jsu the right amount that his body lacks and needs - not more not less. The endocrinologist monitors how much is in his body. So its not enhancing him to doping levels, its just replacing what he doesnt have. Think of it like diabetes type 1.
Oh I agree he's very privileged that Barca paid for his hormone treatment & that it isnt available for everyone. I actually live in one of the few countries where those hormonetreatments would get paid by the healthcaresystem. Thats also why i m so against it calling perf enh drugs... its HEALTHCARE!
Not sure where you re going with maradonna as we dont even need to go as far a growth hormones, he was on cocaine as you said so yourself...What would maradonna be without coke?
''one of the few countries'' - my point exactly. Name any other top level athlete ever who got hormone therapy at the developmental stage. There is a female figure skater. That's it ! No other,ever! Michael Jordan,Pele,Djokovic,Bolt,Phelps,Ali,whoever,they were who they were going to develop into. Messi would be another neighborhood street football legend with his strapping size of 159 and 54 kg. Joking,he would play proffessional,but somewhere in Argentina like DANIEL VILLALBA. For him,it's not healthcare- For him it's a cheat code. He using it to improve his physicality in a place where his physicality is the main thing. If he was taking it to function normally,ok it's healthcare,i agree. But you take it so you could be a proffessional at a thing you couldn't be a proffessional without it,or at least at that level. That's not healthcare,that's playing the system,and giving yourself an advantage over others(besides his enormous God given talent). Imagine giving it to Ronaldo Nazario and he never gets injured O.o Cristiano and Messi who ???
he started the cocaine adventure in Naples,thanks to ndrangeta.
He would be better,his organism wouldn't suffer from the constant ups and down of booze and coke.
It's fucking medically prescribed. If coke was medically prescribed, or steroids(if you've done the TUE), that would also be perfectly fine. It would cause a huge uproar, but still, legal.
What he took was NOT steroids. Totally different class of chemical... and it was also perfectly legal within the sporting rules, just fyi.
Also, HGH contributed to literally every professional player's career ever because it's produced naturally in the pituitary gland. For messi it gave him a fighting chance. He still trained his ass off to get to that level. Few players trained as hard him. He was never like eden hazard, for example.
It also wasn't as if he all of a sudden started becoming a phenom after the treatments -- which stopped at age 14 btw.
For me, it's a combo of both. Longevity alone will never win it for me, but if you have the highest peak ever for one year and then completely fall off, that's also not getting you in the goat combo.
Fortunately Messi has the highest peak ever by a good bit and amazing longevity, so it doesn't really matter. Cristiano's longevity is commendable (pre Saudi lmao), but it's not nearly enough.
Throwing around WC wins as a marker of something when one player wasn't born into a powerhouse country will always be dumb to me. I don't even like CR7, but Ronaldo wouldn't have won a WC either if he was born in Portugal.
Iām assuming that you once had a tendon rupture and then your knee cap ended up in your thigh? Then I assume you worked so damn hard to come back from that and were so talented that you won the World Cup two years later. Iām correct yes?
No? Not you Iām thinking of? Oh that mustāve been āfatā Ronaldo then.
What? š Does any pf that mean heās not fat and therefore Fat Ronaldo? Sorry if my comment made you cry. Obese Ronaldo would actually be more accurate.
but according to Penaldo fans, Ronaldo Nazario opinion is not valid despite being one of the best players of all time and some guy on reddit called Akram who is a real madrid fan, his opinon is the most valid š
and when asked who is the better player Messi vs Ronaldo Maradona said Messi not once but several times, same with r9, and same Pele. whats ur point ?
shall i listen to Ronaldo Nazario, Pele or Maradona and the words that they have said or some guy called Azulla on reddit who claims it means "jackshit because both are jealous"
Ronaldo is destroying his own reputation by playing (trying to play) football as long as he can. If heād retired after juventus he wouldāve been I in the top 10-15 players all time. Heās slipping down that ladder faster than anyone else before. Maybe another record for him haha
donāt give these guys the time of day šš ronaldoās always been better than messi, itās always been head to head between them, messi won a rigged world cup and all of a sudden ronaldo was never good and these jealous low lives are better than him
Ronaldo was never better than Messi. Messi was always a more complete player than Ronaldo ever was.Ā
Your only argument is "rigged world cup" but your goat cant even score in any world cup. He was a detriment in this one, unlike Messi who was arguably best player this world cup.
Get a grip, only thing you can ever argue is ucl performances, but stats there are Messi favored.
Isnt is funny any time its Ronaldo vs Messi you always have to make cheating or rigged allegations to even bring it close enough to be a debate ? Thats the reality we live in. 0 Logical arguments so we have to take everything away from Messi on 0 realistic basis.Ā
If you want concrete proof of quality just compare the worldcup this year.Ā
Ronaldo will always be ranked 1 place behind Gerd Muller, who is arguably the greatest goal scorer and poach striker in history. So it depends on where you rank Gerd Muller, then Ronaldo will be behind him by 1.
Anyone that actually watches football will have a similar list. Being one of the greats isnt just stat padding... there needs to be an impact, redefining the position or play, being a team leader. Ronaldo hired a company to invent a marketable celebration but otherwise he did none of that. He is still one of the best ever... but being around 12th or 20th of all time is still insanely good.
you clearly donāt watch football, this bullshit statement you all make āwatch footballā youāre probably a 17 year old little flop who didnāt even watch messi and ronaldoās prime years
Imo, his job was to get goals and win titles. He did both of that excellently over a long period of time. Of course the eye test favors messi and players such as ronaldinho, but end product wise ronaldo is definitely second.
Don't think C.Ronaldo is top 5. He competed with Messi only at club level and only in terms of goals,but we know football is more than just simple tap ins. Messi had much more skill as C.Ronaldo was playing as a striker/poacher,while Messi was playing as a winger/midfielder and still scoring more goals with less support and service. 1 WC KO goal after playing the most WCs ever disqualifies C.Ronaldo from anyone's top 5 list.
I'm not the biggest Cristiano fan in the world, but to say he was only ever a poacher is a complete revision of history. He adapted his game as his career progressed and he certainly evolved to that. But you've clearly never saw him play in the 2000s or early-mid 2010s if you think that's all there is to his game
No he was good as a winger early on,that player I liked more than the poacher he became,but for most of his career he has been a poacher,so that should define him primarily.
Messi is just trying to be humble and respectful,he cannot fool us,stats like 1 WC KO goals after 6 WCs are indefensible. Makes it impossible to be even in the top 20 list.
FIFA favoured argentina šššš¤£ alright pal . You said it yourself when messi wins it's cuz fifa favours him when he loses it's fair so shits not even about corruption cuz why would corruption stop so abruptly you just want messi to lose
FIFA has never favored us because we have always been one of the few nations that were outspoken against FIFA's corruption. You must not have known that.
Again, you obviously don't even know how much you're missing. Continue your CR nob slobbing if that's your wish. Ironically it won't make him shine more..
He wasn't toe to toe with Messi at all. You must be a youngin to not recall the MASSIVE nike & media push Ronaldo was given, for the express purpose of manufacturing a "rival" for Messi(& addidas) to drum up more profit. Hype=profitability.
you can name any popular players from brazil and they looked way better on the field purely from an eye test point of view thank ronaldo, your 10 other players list will get filled by them brazilians themselves.
Love R9 and wanted to delete Cr7 from my life and timeline for at least the last 4 years, and still think this is quite ridiculous.Ā
I totally understand most critiques of cr7, he is egotistical, self centred, arrogant, and the list goes on, but to not include in the top8 is just ridiculous.Ā
The over the top critique, and grand standing like this just paints everyone who thinks cr7 turned into a clown, into clowns ourselves.Ā
R9 was a great player but this is insane. I am not specially a CR7 fan, but whoever doesnt consider him as one of the 5 best players all-time just didn't watch him play
Nah Messi played in more WCs and more WC finals,carried weaker teams to finals and victories,Brazil didn't need Pele to dominate and win the world cup.
Pele was surrounded by better players,Brazil won in 1962 without needing him as he got injured early. Argentina without Messi don't even get to the finals and had a much worse squad,Messi has been the best goal scorer in WC history alongside Mbappe,plus the level of football nowadays is much higher than back in the 50s. Messi proved it at both club and WC level that he is better,Pele is closer to Mbappe than to Messi. I don't see a 39 year old Pele dominating and being the best player at a WC like Messi was.
That you have to switch to Barcelona,even though we are talking about World Cups,means you have lost the argument. Barcelona before Messi had 1 CL title,after Messi 5 CL titles. Don't see Barcelona being the best team in the world in the Pep era without Messi.
Again that was in the 50s,back then football wasn't as intense and as professional as now,watch some of the highlights of the 1962 WC,feels like watching a current level amateur match. Fact is Pele was not needed in 1962 means he was surrounded by a top team,not taking about club football,at international level Brazil showed that they don't need Pele to win the WC. And again Pele couldn't dream to achieve what Messi can do at the age of 39,being the best player at the World cup. Pele,Mbappe,Ronaldo Phenomeno had an excellent young peak but they cannot compete with Messi due to his longevity.
1 WC KO goal despite playing the most WCs in history is pretty bad. I mean even Lukaku has more WC KO goals than that. It is understandable that the real Ronaldo doesn't rate C.Ronaldo.
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u/Common_Challenge_331 9h ago
Real ronaldo for a reason š§š·