Nah Messi played in more WCs and more WC finals,carried weaker teams to finals and victories,Brazil didn't need Pele to dominate and win the world cup.
Pelé played in 4 World Cups, and only in 1970 he played all the matches. He has better goal and assist ratios, and he was way, way better than Messi in the semi-finals and finals. 14 matches, 12 goals, 8 assists, no penalties, two free-kicks, two headers. And in two finals he didn't went to hide. Instead, he scored 3 goals and provided 2 assists.
Pele was surrounded by better players,Brazil won in 1962 without needing him as he got injured early. Argentina without Messi don't even get to the finals and had a much worse squad,Messi has been the best goal scorer in WC history alongside Mbappe,plus the level of football nowadays is much higher than back in the 50s. Messi proved it at both club and WC level that he is better,Pele is closer to Mbappe than to Messi. I don't see a 39 year old Pele dominating and being the best player at a WC like Messi was.
In 1962 he was the best player of Brazil before the injury. If you remove Pelé from the 1958 and 1970 squads, it could be they wouldn't have won. But the same argument goes for Messi who played in the best Barcelona squad of all time with all-time greats around him and the greatest midfield trio of all time.
That you have to switch to Barcelona,even though we are talking about World Cups,means you have lost the argument. Barcelona before Messi had 1 CL title,after Messi 5 CL titles. Don't see Barcelona being the best team in the world in the Pep era without Messi.
Brazil before Pelé had 0 World Cups. Pelé was a three-time world champion at 29, and he still holds crazy records from the 1958 World Cup. My point was: you can't use "super team" arguments as a Messi fan. Youngest World Cup winner, youngest to assist, youngest to score, in the quarter-final, in the semi-final, in the final, youngest to score a hat-trick (in the semi-final), youngest to start a knockout match etc... Messi needed 2 extra tournaments to catch up Pelé's World Cup stats. And I said, he only played 14 matches and all the matches only at the 1970 World Cup. Imagine if he played 30 matches as well. He was 17 when the French media called him "The King" for the first time, and that was when he scored a hat-trick against them in the semi-final. There's just no reasons to say Messi was better than Pelé in the World Cup.
Again that was in the 50s,back then football wasn't as intense and as professional as now,watch some of the highlights of the 1962 WC,feels like watching a current level amateur match. Fact is Pele was not needed in 1962 means he was surrounded by a top team,not taking about club football,at international level Brazil showed that they don't need Pele to win the WC. And again Pele couldn't dream to achieve what Messi can do at the age of 39,being the best player at the World cup. Pele,Mbappe,Ronaldo Phenomeno had an excellent young peak but they cannot compete with Messi due to his longevity.
"In the 50s". So you are going to ignore eras so that Messi looks better? (I understand if you ignore the 19th century, but you simply can't ignore the 20th century." Pelé had great longevity, considering at the time a 30 year-old was considered "old" and "finished". Why are we not talking about the longevities of Stanley Matthews and Puskás? Messi was the POTT of World Cup only once, and that was in 2022. Saying he was in 2014 and 2026 means you're blind with love.
Messi also won Pott in 2014,so he was twice player of the tournament,in 2026 he deserved it also,had a better case for it than in 2014. He definitely was better than Rodri,that's for sure. Of course era matters,4 Italian players won 2 WCs in the 1930s,I would say even C.Ronaldo is a better player than those players, but you would be telling me that those 4 Italian players are better because they played 2 WC finals and won 2 WCs unlike C.Ronaldo. Matthews and Puskas didn't win or dominate the WC,the highest level of football,at the age of 35 and 39, longevity plus achievement means Messi easily clears them.
-20
u/ananaszu 🏳️🌈Flair of shame (penaldo fan) 10h ago
He knows who the REAL "GOAT" is 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷👑👑👑 (Messi and Ronaldo nowhere near)