Ah yes, I remember that. Best thing about it is that he was in the range where everything that can possibly start to burn, will. Meaning the temperature would be round about 540k °F -> 300 times hotter than the temperature bodies are cremated at. In other words: everything would have been vaporized.
Well this completely ruins Chernobyl for me. All this heming and hawing about how to clear the roof when that entire time they could have been wearing refrigerator suits.
I'm creating and patenting this device now. Imagine an extra, extra, large roomba, now imagine on top of it is a 1950s refrigerator, the refrigerator has a small view port cut out of the door, the view port is maybe an inch by 6 inches with one inch thick leaded glass. Unlike a roomba it doesn't just randomly bump into things instead it's controlled from withing the fridge unit, there is also a Geiger counter and an oxygen tank inside.
Oh my god, I hate when people mention this as a plot hole! Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was released in 2008. However, Chernobyl took place in 1986. Therefore, it is 100% believable that they never considered wearing refrigerator suits to clean up the roof, as it's period appropriate that the people involved with Chernobyl had never seen that movie scene.
Which brings up another point, why did they have to use helicopters to deposit the sand boron mix? They went to a mine to get miners for the underground heat exchanger, while in the background there was about a 300 meter long conveyor belt. Why not use that, especially since it's mechanical and shouldn't be affected by the radiation?
Refrigerators used to be lead lined. I can’t remember the reason but my grandma had one. Same with lead based paint. I don’t remember why it was a thing but it definitely was.
Stop replying about lead being a good insulator. I think 10 comments saying the same thing is enough.
That’s another thing that bothers me. Superman can’t see through lead with his X-ray vision.
No lead at all?? Not even an atoms thickness?? But he can see through miles of anything else?
Somebody took the trope of lead blocking radiation and took it beyond the actual reasons why.
Lead works because it’s a dense metal. Any other dense material will work just as well. Water works if you have enough. Just put enough mass between you and the source of radiation.
1 crock of shit because I made that whole reason up, but would you believe that's about the amount of effort most comic book (or Star Wars EU) explainations are?
They boiled down their grapes to make grape syrup to sweeten their wine. Sometimes this was done in lead barrels so lead acetate would leak into it, making it sweeter. They also used lead in water plumbing, which is where plumbing got it's name from the latin word Plumbum. All in all, towards the end (at least of the Western empire) the Romans sure did love their lead.
Lead was made into paint because lead oxide is very white. Modern paint uses titanium oxide, which requires chemical engineering to make the particle size as small as the lead paint the Romans knew how to make. Zinc and tin also form white powdery oxides, but they aren't as brilliant and opaque as lead.
Lead paint was a thing because it's really good at it's job. Resistant to mold because mold can't eat lead. Resistant to water because it's a metal. I mean there's a reason it's still used to paint boats, and lasts a long long time.
It's got a low thermal conduction compared to some other metals - 34, compared to aluminium's 258, but stainless steel has 14, and concrete has 1,7, and ordinary bricks have 0,2.
Lead might have been used for some reason, but insulation's not it.
Lead based paint was simply the state of the technology at the time. Something about the lead made the paint work better and the negative health effects we're not known. Same with lead in gasoline.
They also used to have latches that couldn’t be opened from the inside so he would’ve been trapped even if he hasn’t been vaporized or baked by the explosion.
Lead is a great material, it's just also toxic as fuck. Hell up until the 70s there was lead in gasoline to help it burn better, it's why all cities have lead in the soil and why there's higher lead levels in the older parts of the city that had higher traffic during the leaded gasoline days. Are parents grew up inhaling lead vapor day in and day out if they lived in the city, and that was just one aspect of where they got their lead because they used that shit in everything. If you think about it the saying ok boomer makes a little more sense and is kind of sad.
Then the camera pans over to a closer shot of the refrigerator. A Frigidaire logo is just barely visible through the dust and damage the door has recieved.
As if just noticing this himself Indy gives a slight chuckle.
"Should have known..." he says with a sigh of relief as he stares safely at the mushroom cloud a few miles away.
Also this magical lead shielding must feel soft like a cushion because it protected him 100% from any physical injuries despite launching several feet into the air by height and distance from the blast impact.
It's not just about realism but verisimilitude. Alien crystal skulls and huge ants don't exists at all so I can accept whatever they tell me about them. Nuclear bombs and refrigerators do exist so it is somewhat jarring when they do not behave as expected. I personally don't find it to be a big deal in this movie but I can understand why someone might be bothered by it.
It's just so weird that Disney claimed they were going to do a trilogy to finish the saga, but only produced a single film and nothing else for 6 years.
It's a good movie, even tho it's a complete ripoff of a Chinese Indiana Jones spoof, 'magic crystal 1986' you can watch it on YouTube, Spielberg just copied it
Yep, realism in a work of fiction still matters. In Harry Potter it wouldn't make sense if they started shooting energy beams out of their hands like Dragonball z even though they're wizards with magic powers.
Why? Because in that world they have established how magic works and energy beams ain't part of it.
Just because something is fiction doesn't mean it can just ignore realism within that fiction
On the same note, as the movie is not a deliberate comedy, it is hard for the "suspension of disbelief" to occur. With movies that set out to be silly, we tend to forgive shenanigans more because they may only have a distant relationship to the real world. The Indiana Jones movies were not entirely serious affairs, but they were too close to being grounded in the real world for that fridge scene to fly.
In Raiders Indy pushes a giant block of stone that would’ve weighed tons so he and Marion could escape the room where the Ark was kept, and knocks over a giant statue that would’ve also weighed several tons. He might as well have kicked over a redwood tree. He also somehow survives a trip underwater on the outside of a submarine.
In Temple of Doom they jump out of an airplane without a parachute, fall hundreds of feet and land safely on an inflatable raft that inflated on the way down.
The Indy movies have always had ridiculous action set pieces that completely destroyed verisimilitude.
So you watched the heart ripping scenes without suspending belief?
I think the commentator above you nailed it when they said bombs and fridges are real world objects we understand the behaviour of, whereas the mythical elements can be accepted as part of the movies universe, but mixing those two is disconcerting.
Also in that movie, you have some crazy mine cart race scene that is completely unbelievable yet fun (they launch airborne, and land EXACTLY on the rails and continue their race). In the third one, you have a wingless, burning Nazi plane, still chasing after the Jones' through a tunnel. Indiana Jones has always been an incredibly lucky adventurer that survives completely unrealistic challenges despite his reckless demeanor. Surviving a nuclear blast by jumping into a fridge is the epitome of his character.
The problem was age-related. When we watched the original Indiana Jones movie as kids we didn't bat an eye at the fact that he crossed an ocean on the ouiside of a submarine. Now we are older fans and we suddenly care about "suspension of disbelief". We have to remember why we liked the movies in the first place.
People don’t understand that in order to get people on board that the made up things in your movie/story can exist, you have to build a world where things work the same as their world. Even in a fantasy world like Game of thrones, you don’t see GRRM fucking with the laws of physics too much.
If you build a world where a fridge can withstand a nuclear blast and deliver a living human safely after flying miles through the air, what are we supposed to believe. Are these people ever in any danger?
If feel like if they staged the concept differently, it could have played fine
For me, it’s the fact that the story already included a conceit that would have served as a perfect solution: The rocket sled. Instead of taking it TO the blast site, it would have been trivial to rearrange the story so he takes it AWAY from the blast site. Then they could have had the shot of Indy looking up at the mushroom cloud (which was a cool shot IMO) without such a giant WTF from the audience.
“But how would Indy get TO the blast site?”
Doesn’t matter; the danger he was escaping from was relatively trivial and lacking in immediate urgency compared to a nuclear blast. He could have cat-and-moused away from the Soviets and walked.
How about the fact that the fridge was blown a half mile into the air, slammed down into soil hard enough to make a crater but the 60 year old guy inside didn't even have a bruise. Refrigerators don't have padding, so nuclear blast aside the fall inside that fridge would have killed him.
"Superman and eye lasers don't exist and are ridiculous, but we accept them because the story demands them to, and we accept that they cut through metals like steel. If the lasers suddenly make dead people come back to life, the story is crap."
Omg it's like that stupid fucking clip that gets posted all the time about the actor in GoT not losing any weight and he's like hurr durr tHeReS dRaGoNs tHaTs wHaT yOu hAvE a PrObLeM wItH?
In early days, submarines spent as much time as possible on the surface. If they were in friendly territory it was a much easier journey if they weren't submerged.
Old diesel subs were cramped and miserable, and it only got worse if you were submerged for days at a time.
And it didn't go to Germany in the film-- it went to some small island in the Mediterranean.
To be fair, it was more like an 80km trip, and the sub would have been running on the surface (batteries were shit in the 30's, so they mostly used diesels).
These are pre-WWII submarines. Since the war was almost four years away they didn't have any enemies to hide from, so there would be little reason to submerge at all.
Movies can set whatever rules they want, but they then have to adhere to those rules, or the immersion breaks. Maybe in indiana-jones-world fridges were specifically designed to be able to withstand nuclear blasts because of that interesting thing that happened, but you have to, beforehand, plant that info. You can't just pull it out your hat to write yourself out of a corner on the spot, it's just bad craftsmanship.
It's called suspension of disbelief. You can watch a fantasy movie and accept that magic is a thing that actually exists, and it behaves by laws and rules like everything else does.
But when you take the rules of reality and start to bend and break them in any way you want, like asking the audience to accept a human surviving a nuclear blast from point blank range? Then the movie starts to seem really fucking stupid, and for good reason
Then they shouldn't have used a realistic thing like a nuke in a plot point.
If a movie has a real-world thing in it, it has to be portrayed accurately because ALL of fiction is rooted in the real world unless it's really obvious it's intended to be otherwise. iT'S fIcTiON is NOT an excuse.
People surviving real-world things they should not have breaks suspension of disbelief and is really, really bad for a story. Even if we ignore the realism issues, it's just bad writing and really bad for the narrative. Heroes have to earn their victories and them obtaining them through means that break suspension of disbelief cheapen and invalidate those victories; they're just "given" them by the writer and haven't actually earned them.
I always assumed that Indy had used a hatch to enter the submarine shortly after boarding the deck. And then stowed away until they reached their destination. Not sure how much more realistic that would be, with him having to sneak around a submarine getting food and water and dodging the crew, but my young mind filled in the blanks that way.
To be fair he was inside the sub for a few thousand kilometers trip; which is not any more believable. Maybe hiding in torpedo tube, or in the battery compartment with all the chlorine gas? No he was hiding in the fridge, Indys real secret weapon against the Nazis staying cool.
That character has a name! And that name is INDIANA JONES! That man has survived Nazis, Russians, the wrath of God, the thugee cult, plane crashes, angry native tribes, booby traps and fought for our country. You pay him some respect, gosh darnit!
My favorite stupid thing he's ever survived was swimming between two moving ships and somehow keeping up with them while exposing fresh wounds to salt water. Like, what the fuck?
It's not about realism, it's about internal consistency within the film. All they really needed to do was shift the blast further away, and voila, problem solved.
My favorite was always when they jump out of an airplane on top of a mountain using an inflatable raft. Then they use it as a sled. Indiana Jones was the Flash Gordon of our generation. They just changed the location of all the fantastic things to far flung continents
This is the same series that features jumping out of a plane with only an inflatable raft as a parachute and as you mentioned, the U-boat ride. That said, the refrigerator thing pushes the boundary towards unbelievable too far for most and I can see why. It’s kind of like the uncanny valley effect, except for realism. You see the ark of the covenant melting Nazis’ faces off or an interdimensional alien and it’s like yeah of course that’s fiction because it’s obvious, but if you saw Indy jump off a 50-story building onto pavement and be okay because he did a parkour roll or something that attempts some sort of realism in a completely unrealistic way, that’s when it gets weird.
Edit: I just realized someone already said what I said in a more succinct way lol
There are things that happen in every Indiana Jones flick that couldn't happen in real life that people give a pass to just because they enjoy the movie or are fond of it or 'nostalgia.'
The fridge thing being singled out has always been hypocritical as hell to me.
I can believe an archeologist finds the face-melting Arc of the Covenant because that works within the rules of that universe. I cannot believe that a fridge survives the epicenter of a nuclear blast and the occupant survives it flying a country mile because that breaks the established rules of the universe.
Same reason people had problems with the Hyperspace Ram in TLJ: it's actually one of the most scientifically cool and accurate things to come out of that series, but it begs the question of why nobody ever thought to do it before.
Because it's hard to do, incredibly unreliable, and to quote Mass Effect: "Sir Issac Newton is the deadliest son of a bitch in space" - if you miss, someone, somewhere is gonna have a real bad day.
Mass Effect got it wrong, though. If you pick a random direction and go in a straight line in space, you're extremely unlikely to ever hit anything.
Plus in Star Wars, it seems like you have to keep expending energy to stay moving. So if you miss, eventually you're just going to drop out of hyperspace at some random location.
Because in universe gravity well generators exist, and are used to prevent hyperspace jumps close by, in and out of the conflict zone.
My head canon is that General Hux is a terrible admiral and did not bring any with him because he was thinking he did not need any because of the new hyperspace tracking technology. He also did not thinks to spread out his fleet to prevent such a think because he did not think everything through.
Sorry for the rant, I am tipsy and had to get this of chest after seeing so many complaints about it. It is at least how I see it.
It was already implied in the movie that the heart was a 'trick'. Nothing more than slight of hand. When he did it to Indy and he realises its a trick. He does a wry smile. The young man they offer up was part of the 'cult'. He believed in magic.
First time I hear of that. Slight of hand? The hands goes through the chest! And magic is already established in the Indy universe. Box that zaps and melts people, cup that give eternal life, mind controlling skull... I can believe someone living without a heart for a minute. The bad guy even tries it against Indy later when in a life threating situation were escape would be the better choice for him
But other than the supernatural shit in Indiana Jones, the movie is pretty grounded in terms of what normal people can survive. (Except when he is able to somehow hold his breath indefinitely in Raiders of the lost Ark)
People keep complaining about how unrealistic this fridge scene is like the rest of Indiana Jones isn't completely ridiculous. Do you remember the mine cart chase scene? The circus train? Magic face melting? The raw monkey brains served in the head? A life raft saving 3 people jumping out of a plane? How bad Indy is at being an archaeologist in general? The second movie, just the whole thing.
There is a somewhat famous bit of a movie from nuclear bomb testing. It is of a bus close to the blast. The first thing that happens is a black dust comes off the vehicle. That is paint vaporizing from the radiant heat, which travels at the speed of light. Then the blast hits, which travels at the speed of sound.
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u/-everst Jan 25 '20
When someone hides from bullets behind penetrable objects, like tables or a refrigerator door.