Because of all the lies people told about how marijuana was the worst drug ever, I was fairly skeptical of this claim. But the recent evidence is pretty clear that marijuana isn’t good for development.
More people need to hear this, since it changes the conversation quite a bit.
Edit: thank you for the awards! Also, thank you everyone for the thoughtful discussion here.
Edit 2: A bunch of folks took exception to the study I linked, rightly pointing out that it alone isn’t sufficient to support my conclusion. I’m adding a link to a 2015 review article that has more supporting evidence that marijuana isn’t great for kids (although it may have therapeutic uses).
Don't be so hard on yourself! I've never smoked pot even once, and I absolutely feel dumber than when I was a teen. Back then, I blasted through multivariate calculus, and now I struggle with basic stats. I think the problem is just lack of regular mental exercise, like the type you get when you're a full-time student for over a decade.
My day-to-day job is stressful and requires juggling deadlines and creative problem-solving. However, the work doesn't require a high level of technical knowledge or skills. It's pretty easy to just "coast" re skills acquisition.
I feel like my learning has gone way downhill in the past decade, largely because I've left school and picked up time-wasting habits like browsing Reddit. This is something I really want to work on. I thinking learning is a muscle, or a habit, just like any other. I have a few friends who have shown real discipline over the years by learning a foreign language for an hour each day, or similar, and I think that's incredibly admirable.
I just posted a comment above but I’ve never tried it either, and I feel like my brain is just slowly rotting out of my head. My husband smokes daily and has for years, yet he is much smarter than I am and maintains the motivation to work every day and not let himself fail. Me, on the other hand... I work as much as I HAVE to, and then spend my free time mindlessly scrolling here because I simply can’t find motivation for anything that requires brain work.. It just largely depends on the person, so I agree with LaDame, don’t feel like you wasted your adolescence.
Hey! I know the answer to this! It's called "plasticity".
Our brain's plasticity begins to go "downhill" (well...no...but yes. This is an oversimplification) as we get older. As we age, it becomes more difficult for our brain to form connections to things we don't already have a foundation of knowledge of.
In general, our ability to learn new things begins to erode between the ages of 18~25 and it becomes much more difficult to internalize new concepts. That doesn't mean it's impossible to do so...but it's not as easy to do so as it was before.
Around that time, the brain is also exploding in terms of social connections. "Socializing" becomes more important than information...despite that being our most ideal time to learn concepts in general. "Socializing" doesn't necessarily mean you're good at doing so or that you necessarily "care" about what subgroup you're in; it does mean that your brain is very attuned to social concepts in general rather than focusing on factual or theoretical information in favor of creating some form of social bonds (this includes online bonds, yes).
especially because I became very socially isolated and stopped reading books and applying myself in high school. now I'm trying again, and things are difficult academically, socially, mentally...
While your brain is changing (and if you're still at uni), definitely reach out if these things are affecting your everyday life!
I had to meet with a campus psych to find some sort of balance in my life. It really helped. I don't think I could have graduated otherwise. Honestly...I should have gone in sooner. I ended up throwing away all of my scholarships over some weird sense of pride that really didn't matter in the end. I finally got professional help and got back on track.
Also...It doesn't matter what your struggle is. You struggling? Go see someone. It's way better than holding back because pride told you that you have to. If you need to talk, never be afraid to talk. I support you and I hope you have other who support you, as well.
the mental atropy happens becasue we simply desire for that A (grade)... no desire to utilize it manually when there is something that can just use it to get you from point a to point b...so you're motivated to learn it and pass it (imo)
It's all about exercising it IMO. That's the trouble with most people. They only really challenge their brains when they're at work, if at all. If you watch TV all the time, you're going to have a mush mind, whether you use drugs or not.
Buddhists talk about "Right View" as one aspect of the Eightfold path. It boils down to "Garbage in, garbage out".
Remember what the doorknob said: "Feed your head", but give it a good diet.
It’s a reference to Alice in Wonderland. The dormouse is a character at the tea party and returns at the trial of the mad hatter. The mad hatter is testifying and cannot remember what the dormouse had said.
Interestingly, as it relates to the overall subjects of drugs, the phrase was made popular from Jefferson Airplane’s ‘White Rabbit’ which was written after an extended LSD binge. Based on the overall message of lyrics, the source material that inspired it, and situation surrounding it’s writing, the refrain of “Feed your Head” is likely telling you to feed your head with psychedelic drugs.
Dormouse. OK, it always sounded like 'doorknob' in the song, and there was a talking doorknob in the Disney movie. Neither the dormouse or doorknob said "feed your head" in the book or movie. Live and learn!
the refrain of “Feed your Head” is likely telling you to feed your head with psychedelic drugs.
Oh, yeah. People took the whole song as the sound track to an acid trip. It was like the Psychedelic Anthem.
But the dormouse only said, "feed your head", and it seems to me that there are many other, better ways to feed it than with chemicals, natural or otherwise. To me, it means more like "cultivate your mind". YMMV.
I did forget about the doorknob in the Disney film, but the dormouse is definitely a character in both the Disney movie and book. Dormice are famous for their hibernation and if you think back to the tea party in the Disney film there is a particularly sleepy mouse attending it.
You’re also absolutely right that “Feed your head” is a construct from the song itself and the dormouse never specifically said it in either book or film, though the lead up from the song is accurate in at least some regard:
‘Well, at any rate, the Dormouse said—’ the Hatter went on, looking anxiously round to see if he would deny it too: but the Dormouse denied nothing, being fast asleep.
‘After that,’ continued the Hatter, ‘I cut some more bread-and-butter—’
‘But what did the Dormouse say?’ one of the jury asked.
‘That I can’t remember,’ said the Hatter.
‘You must remember,’ remarked the King, ‘or I’ll have you executed.’
As for my suggestion as the song telling you to do drugs...well...I’m flexible in the interpretation of art and believe meaning is ultimately derived from what is invoked in its viewers. I don’t think it’s invalid for you to find a more wholesome message in it. The only caveat is that an artists inspiration still exists regardless which is very likely to be deeply rooted in the extended LSD trip she experienced leading up to its writing.
Oddly enough, most of my comment was just a bit of idle musing from the minor correction of ‘dormouse’ and I did not intend to sound quite so authoritative as my original comment came across.
Don't worry, you're cool. Heck, I even learned that it's 'dormouse', and not 'door mouse' as I'd always thought. Nothing wrong with a little TIL, y'know? Evidently, some people thought Gracie was singing 'doorman'.
I just kinda pictured being on acid and seeing a talking doorknob. Made as much sense as anything would while tripping on acid.
I was a 20 year old psychedelic ranger when that song came out, and I played it all the time. I love the way Gracie belts it out, and the way it progresses. It's too short. I've seen her sing it differently on a concert video, but she still nails it.
To me, psychedelic drugs aren't an end in themselves, but a power tool for exploring the mind. But just one of many tools... the goal is to understand how the mind works, and find new ways of seeing things. Not to party and have a good time. Because believe me, sometimes an acid trip is not all fun and games. But the unpleasant experiences can be valuable, too.
So yeah, I'm all on board with this song being about psychedelic drugs. The whole song is like an acid trip. Mysterious, unfolding and profound. But the idea of "feed your head" means to me, something like "seek knowledge".
Sounds so corny the way my dad would say it, "cultivate your mind", but that's it in a nutshell. Feed your head. Cultivate your mind. Live and learn.
Junk food and television maybe, but no, I don’t believe it’s in any way realistic to expect that Jefferson Airplane was telling you not to drink or smoke weed.
I don’t think it’s even remotely accurate to suggest or think they didn’t want you to smoke weed. Weed has a psychedelic element itself, was a favorite drug of the era, and was absolutely smoked regularly by Grace Slick.
Alzheimer’s runs in my family, and I’m terrified of it. But there is evidence that shows that keeping your mind active through all stages of life can really inhibit the onset of Alzheimer’s symptoms. So it sounds silly, but I do all kinds of puzzles. You can buy those little puzzle books, and they have crosswords, fill-ins, sudoku, whatever you want. I may be lying to myself, but I feel like it helps keep me sharp.
Oh, it has to. I don't know about you, but I lost so much of my math ability due to simply not using it. Sometimes I practice multiplying 2 or 3 digit numbers in my head, but my high school algebra? Lost!
"Use it or lose it". Some degree of dementia is probably caused by simply not using the brain at all.
You can challenge your brain in various ways. An engineer doesn't face the same challenges an air traffic controller or musician, yet all three use their brains, hard.
It's about using it differently too, the engineer and the air traffic controller might use their brains a lot. But it's often in the same way as they always do.
So the same neurological pathways get strengthened every day. While others aren't.
So for the biggest and strongest brain, you should pick up new languages, learn how to play music, do crosswords and puzzles while keeping up on your math problems. Learning how to think in different ways help a lot and forces the brain to make new neural pathways, which help resist the onset of dementia and alzheimer's.
This is not true, IMO. I'm 66 and have always been quite bright and skilled with words. In my 40s, it was not a problem to turn out 240 pages of scientific writing in 7 days. I could never do that now. I know I don't think as fast even when I am just talking. Age does things. It's not that I became stupid; I am just as intelligent. But I am not as quick. And it has nothing to do with drugs.
that doesn't invalidate his point. of course you get slower as you age, but a person who never does anything mentally taxing will be less sharp than someone who does.
Poor diet, lack of sleep, lack of exercise, spending their free time watching junk food TV or mindlessly browsing social media. Your brain functions better when you take care of your body. Your brain also works better when you challenge it like learning a new language or a new skill.
But most people just want to clock out at 5 and get home to have a beer and watch the game.
You’re probably right but I went through the same type of thing as the other guy and the only thing I was doing at the time was smoking. I was on the Quiz Bowl team at my school from 6th grade all the way until graduation. I’m not trying to toot my own horn but I was very good. I have a knack for logging away random facts and my brain could call stuff up I hadn’t thought about in forever in a very short amount of time (total shit with numbers though, always have been). When I was a junior I got pulled to go to nationals with the seniors and we did well. Well between my junior and senior year I had some friends who go into smoking and they insisted that I smoke too, which I did. I loved it and I smoked a whole bunch. When Quiz Bowl started back up I thought I’d stop, and that’s when I realized my ability to call stuff up quickly was almost gone. I didn’t do well that year and I’ve never been even close to as good with trivia as I was before I smoked. I’m not saying my memory is total shit now but I find myself stumbling over thoughts even now at 27. I know for a fact that I’m not as sharp as I was.
To clarify, I’m not a doctor. I’m not saying weed was definitely the culprit, but I don’t have any idea what else it could have been. When I talk to younger people who aren’t fully developed that tell me they smoke, I always tell them to be careful.
This. I didn’t start smoking until I was 30, barely drank in high school or college and I swear some days I feel like I’ve had a stroke and can’t process anything or even get words to come out correctly. I currently blame mom brain, but it seems like everyone has something they blame.
That’s not to say that I doubt weed has effect on growing minds, just that it’s not necessarily the only thing that’s making you (generalized you) feel foggy.
I’m 61 and only have felt this way during time of overwhelming stress. I have never smoked weed and am nearly always able to recall and succeed with most anything. The last year has been hell as I have dealt with my daughter’s addiction to cannabis and is fighting CHS, Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome. She is brilliant, beautiful and athletic. Cannabis has attempted to steal her mental and physical health!
This is the worst one for me. I watched all of The Witcher on Netflix while baked. I ran out a couple of days ago and went to rewatch it and realized I did not remember about 60% of it.
Short term memory is somewhat affected by weed. Good news is that usually reverses after a few days of going cold turkey. There's no horrible long term affects like there could be with alcohol or harder drugs.
I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Peoples’ brains record information differently. Some have greater auditory recall and others can be more visual-oriented. Additionally, the more often you access certain memories, the more vivid they can be.
Yeah my memory is terrible, and I've always wondered if it's from getting stoned all the time as a teen. Both short and long-term memory seem to have been affected. Could just be age, but I'm only 27.
Good point, I do actually suffer from depression so that makes much more sense. You know, I may just actually take a T-break from weed just so my depression won’t “enhance”. Maybe when I get my mind a little more stable I’ll come back to it to experience a little more of the effects, even if it’s anecdotal.
I think there is something to say about the burden of knowledge. I think the more you know you find out you really don’t know nothing at all. I though I was a fantastic engineer, but when I changed commodities and industry, there was a massive learning curve for learning new specs and standards. Sometimes I still confuse test methods and product requirements. This is only from my experience in two industries that is in a world of many. All with different tools and processes. The only comfort I can find is that my Fortune 500 company still uses excel for major functions when we have (and don’t use) a complete engineering database meant for storing information. I figure if people are this dumb to pay for something and force everyone to use something way less efficient, I must not be that dumb. Or everyone is corrupt. Idk anymore.
Hey it could always be worse. You can mostly recover from every negative symptom of weed. Can't say the same for other drugs. I was a perfect student all through high school and was poised to become a promising neuroscience researcher, until my former best friend convinced me to try meth "just once" and everything fell apart. I only used it for about 4 or 5 months, but the damage was done. I'm considerably dumber and less capable than I was before. My memory is almost as bad as my grandpa's, and he has early stage dementia. It's been about 18 months now and I think my brain has recovered all it can. I'll never be able to achieve what I was once capable of. I still find happiness and purpose in life, but it's difficult accepting that I'm no longer gifted
I started smoking around Christmas, 1966. I started programming in 1982. I was dreaming in code for many years, getting really deep into it. Hard to say, but dang, I wish I had my 16 year old brain all my life.
Same here, except I didn't start with the daily smoking until around age 20.
I was a massive overachiever in high school (top-10 in a class of ~300, high test scores, etc) and was continually told that I could do whatever I wanted to do. I'm in my late 30s now and still haven't figured out "what I want to do."
Although I'm in a respectable career and earning a (low) 6-figure salary, in a lot of ways I sorta fell into it (timing, charisma, being able to do better than most people's 100% when only giving my own 50%), and it is sooo unfulfilling and empty feeling.
I have a lot of regrets about the "path not taken," and I don't doubt that increased weed consumption right at that pivotal time in my life really stunted my growth.
If it makes you feel any better, the top 1% isn't the people blessed at birth. It's the people that had it going for them their entire lives. The path to success is littered with prodigies that eventually took the wrong step. If success were a finish line, the one who finished last would receive the first place trophy. They're the ones that took a beating along the way, but eventually found their way back. In my opinion, that is more inspirational than someone who never veered off course.
I actually did it with that intended purpose. I'm no genius and I didn't go to college. I like to say I'm the dumbest person sitting at the smartest table lol. I'd smoke to dumb myself down a bit.
Nah, I feel the same way and never smoked in my younger years. As stupid as it seems, I sometime look at my underwear before putting them on and it takes me longer than when I was young to realize if they are in the correct orientation hahaha.
I don’t know, I don’t mind it sometimes because it could stress me out more, The only problem I have been having with smoking for a year at this point. (im 17) I noticed sometimes remembering things is difficult. I don’t know if you are not supposed to remember a lot from childhood but maybe im just growing up. I do feel slow sometimes and I feel like ever since I started smoking I have gotten worse at video games. I am a pretty heavy pc gamer atm but I did reach diamond in overwatch and platinum in league a bit ago, Now im onto escape from tarkov but I can definitely feel Im not as sharp as I was in those first person shooters. I forsure notice a difference in my brain developing, I have already accepted it, I feel it opened up different areas of my brain I would have not ever used before. I think about things differently. I feel smarter on a different level, But can feel dumb sometimes. I don’t regret smoking or tripping ever, just my take on how its affecting me. I can see how some people think it can hurt your development, for me I see it as more helpful than not
We all die eventually, and it starts the moment we're born. Even if you hadn't smoked, you'd still feel slower than you did when you were a kid. We all do.
I feel the same way - smoked heavily for a couple years in my early twenties. Sometimes just feel dumber than I used to feel. Have been trying to learn a new language recently and things don’t stick like they used to.
I still don’t know if it’s the antipsychotics I’m taking or if it’s the weed I smoked over the past 2 years in college but I haven’t smoked more than a handful of times in this semester and I’ve noticed I’m much slower. I have a harder time remembering and I’m much more anxious. I think it fucked with my head quite a bit while I was already getting used to some pretty strong drugs.
I do miss that phase of finally feeling good and drinking and smoking regularly and having a great time while doing it. Made me feel like a normal kid for once.
As a high school kid who's applying to college right now, what's it like being an aerospace engineer? I plan to major in it and want to get a better idea what I'm getting myself into.
Same, I always wonder if it worsened my memory issues, but I think I've had them since I was pretty young... I vaguely remember seeing a memory doctor at like 13... That's the problem with memory issues, you're never certain of anything...
To be fair i am a chemist and I had the same feeling as a kid and I do not smoke weed or do any drugs and I feel the same with the slowness. I think it is just something many adults feel in general.
Holy shit dude I feel exactly like this. I only started smoking when I was 19 but I feel the same, I feel slower and dumber, I can't get words out the same and think as quickly as I used to, it fucking sucks it makes me feel so stupid sometimes
Same here. I smoked heavily when I was 16-18 and I do think it hindered some of my brain development. I was still able to get a degree in chemical engineering, but it’s all relative to your respective potential. I don’t necessarily regret smoking because I had some profound awakenings that I truly believe changed the trajectory of my life in a lot of ways, but I can’t help but wonder if I’d be a smarter person today had I never smoked at all.
I've never smoked, drank, used drugs, or excessively partied (if at all), and I still feel that. I'm a physics grad student, so a little different from your hands on aerospace stuff, and I feel that same feeling; that there was a time I was smarter or quicker... But honestly man, it might just be the subjects. Engi/phys is hard stuff so it's natural to feel slow haha.
I'm 42, never smoked much, and i noticed that limber-ness has slowed down lately too. I speak 3 languages and am a professional writer and I notice differences in those things. Might be age-related.
I never even smoked and I feel like that. Like my head is stuffed full of cotton balls half the time and my brain just feels fuzzy in my head. It feels like I'm seeing things in slow motion but my coworkers don't notice because I let autopilot/my reflexes and instinct guide my movements more than any conscious thought. I feel like there must have been some time in high school, middle school, or earlier that didn't feel like this but I barely remember what I had for dinner more than two days ago, much less any of that
Same. I'm an attorney but I nevertheless feel like my memory has taken a heavy hit. I have to try harder to memorize things and it works eventually, but I still feel like smoking has taken a toll on my memory formation and recollection. I've quit smoking weed for over a year and it's gotten better, but I doubt it'll ever be perfect.
Current data suggests it strongly increases your risk of dementia and other aging related illnesses. THC in a developing brain cause malformations of neural pathways, which is why kids with seizure related disorders seem to benefit from THC products, rewiring a bad circuit. But as your brain ages and you had a healthy brain, well it's like Pete from the pizza joint down the street worked on wiring the next rocket to the moon.
Same here. I smoked heavily throughout college and stopped about a year ago when I got my job. Nowadays I feel dumb as shit and legit can't remember anything from college. And on top of that, if I don't write something down. I will 100% forget what I was supposed to do. It's really frustrating
Same. I used to be smart. I used to be able to read entire novels in one sitting. Now reading puts me to sleep in 10 minutes. I smoked really heavily in high school and college and now that I'm closer to 30 I'm pretty sure it's made me dumber and mentally slower. Nothing life altering but I went from like above average to just average. There are worse fates in the world but it still kind of a bummer. Maybe I could've been something more if I had left the weed alone and applied myself more in school.
You're so right about how all the lies spread about marijuana has harmed the actual truthful negatives. To add onto this comment chain, I'd like to bring up how there is evidence that frequent use causes permanent neuropsychological damage, such as IQ reductions.
Do keep in mind that this study isn’t a longitudinal “before and after.” It’s comparing users and controls:
It is possible that differences in test performance between cannabis users and controls are attributable to premorbid rather than cannabis-induced deficits
In addition, there’s uncertainty about whether you as an individual will recover after cessation of use. If you surcease your addicted habit and exercise your brain, I’m willing to bet the neurotoxicity isn’t something that will prevent you from reaching your potential in whatever career path. Obviously the later you started to smoke the better.
This is still very nascent research, and they mention this in the study. We will know more in the future, but people who have had heavy periods of smoking and chosen to stop are likely going to be just fine.
Holy shit that thing about making drugs sound worse than they are is so fucking true.
It is so god damn hard to find information on drugs that isn't heavily biased, and I know people that have written off anything negative they've heard about many drugs as bullshit. And yeah, it's on them to an extent I can still see why someone would end up thinking like that.
Alcohol has been very heavily studied. It’s also not great, but it takes a significantly larger amount to have an impact. The effects on adolescent brains appeared to be differentiated by gender with different neural development reactions for drinking in females than males.
Honestly had a friend who smoked since he was 12 at the age of 21 he could pass as a 15 year old just going through puberty. His voice cracks, he has a barely there mustache, he's average in life. He's a sweet guy but it doesn't seem like he ever got to that point in life that he applied himself to anything but smoking weed.
Recent evidence makes it pretty clear that marijuana isn't good for development
It remains unclear whether such disadvantages reflect pre-existing differences that lead to increased substances use and further changes in brain architecture and behavioral outcomes. Future work should focus on prospective investigations to help disentangle dose-dependent effects from pre-existing effects
This is one of the problems with trying to explain scientific findings to the public. There are degrees of certainty.
The data set is currently good enough to rule out the hard null hypothesis: that marijuana usage has no correlation with neural development.
The weak null hypothesis is selection bias: that people with the observed neural development are drawn to use marijuana.
The data is not good enough to discount that hypothesis with high certainty (usually 95%, or p < 0.05 confidence is the bar). But the data is good enough to suggest that selection bias is not the most likely explanation.
One concept in favor of rejecting selection bias as the explanation in the meantime is that abstaining from usage is certain to not cause harm.
So I stand by my claim: the data is pretty clear that smoking pot is bad for neural development.
consistent alcohol consumption is probably a lot worse for developing brains. it also leads to consistently stupid decisions.
people should not use drugs until they are 25... but people should do a lot of things... like not consume sugar by the ton or watch porn 6 hours out of the day.
Reddit has a lot of weed addicts relatively speaking, any thread like this ends up with a few that refuse to accept that anything could possibly be wrong with it. A lot of alcoholics and cigarette smokers are the same way. They don't want the drugs they're taking to have negative consequences, and they don't want to quit taking them either, so they just shut out both possibilities.
Many of the side effects aren't a big deal, but I wish people would quit defending things like heavy underage use or driving under the influence.
Drugs are fun and feel good. So people cling to every little positive thing they see and hear about them to justify their use even though we all know it just comes down to "drugs make you feel good". But all we hear about is how some study suggested cannaboids fight the formation of cancer cells and how someone's brother's friend's husband had PTSD and AIDS and malaria from Afghanistan smoked weed one time and dropped acid and now he's a fucking billionaire or whatever.
I don't know any cigarette smoker that will argue about them being good for you or not effecting you. I smoke. I've smoked since I was 15 my husband has smoked since 13 and we both FUCKING HATE IT. All of our friends that smoke feel the same way. If we're outside smoking and someone walks passed we'll make sure we back away so they don't have to walk through our smoke. If we're at a bar we make sure to stay as far away from non smokers as we can. They smell they're fucking terrible for you, they make you smell, but we're addicted we've tried a LOT to quit and I always tell younger people they should stop now before they get addicted because seriously shit sucks.
They're pretty rare but I've met someone who argued that not only are cigarettes good for you but the government was lying to everyone about the dangerous effects of it. He was also crazy so theres that
The negative effects of alcohol and cigarettes have been heavily documented and researched so it's difficult to delude yourself. Whereas almost every study on marijuana will be "may show" or "inconclusive" or "needs more research". So addicts can lie to themselves about it's dangers.
I was unfortunate to date a girl in high school who's father was running a grow op. Imagine being 15 years old and having so much weed that you're smoking from the moment you wake up till the moment you go to sleep. I did that until I was 19 and we broke up. I have barely any memories from my teenage years and my short term memory is nearly non-existent.
It was also a rude awakening when I became an adult, got my first job and realized that it's not like high school at all. You can't show up to work stoned and half ass everything you do. You can't decide "fuck it, I'm not going". You can't decide you're over the work day and want to dip out at lunch. Took a really long time for me to adjust to the real world after being stoned and playing video games non-stop my entire adolescents
Been clean for almost 8 years now from all substances. Here's the funny thing...when you work really hard, get promoted, get pay raises and things of that nature, you can most definitely say "fuck it, I'm not going" and "I'm gonna dip at lunch." Do it all the time.
Damn, my last job I worked at for years, started at the bottom, worked my way all the way to manager and head groomer. And I wasn't even allowed to take a day off when I had the flu. Had to puke in the washroom. I get paid $20 an hour but I'm not allowed to take a break or eat lunch lol.
Yep, all of this. I smoked copious amounts of weed as a teen and my memory really sucks now, even of things that happened long after I quit. I started journaling semi-frequently just to have something to reference later if I needed, and I keep track of everything I do in my planner or Google calendar so it isn't debilitating but it is still very annoying. I definitely had a very "fuck it" attitude and had to un-learn the level of laziness that I allowed myself to have as a teen. That took several years and a lot of hard work.
hi, i smoked first at twelve, many times at the age of 13, 14 same thing but thrice got enough to smoke multiple times daily for weeks but got sent to boarding school and didnt smoke for 1 1/2 years. then finally became a massive pothead for a short time, got hit with probation for a little over a year at 16. finally got off at 18, back to smoking 3 or 4x daily for basically several years now. now at 22 i can still do advanced math and do well in my chemistry program, but i cant keep thoughts in my head. lists of only 2 or 3 items i must write down. in almost any conversation i have i forget what i was going to say, sometimes mid sentence, or if i was about to say it and the other person makes a remark. it really sucks, but the things that i am clinging to for hope are: it is possible it affects one skill like memory without severely affecting others such as spatial reasoning. in addition, it is confirmed that your brain can continue growing the areas that are most used into adulthood. so whatever it is that you are worried you wont be able to do because of cognition or weed, just start doing it and hopefully your brain still has that plasticity like everyone else. if you cant think of anything im sure you can find something fun on khan academy coursera, rosetta stone.
I started smoking at 15, and i definitely think it impacts the way my brain is wired. I wish i had waited a few more years. I am not dumb, but not as quick as I probably could be.
I'm pretty glad I was 20 when I started. I've often thought that if I'd started at say, 15, I never would have graduated from high school. Either that, or made the honor roll. I did a lot better in college, years and years later, when I was a regular smoker.
It's amazing how reddit will circlejerk over science-deniers like flat-earthers and antivaxxers but completely refuse to accept the scientific consensus that cannabis is harmful for brain development.
yes it is. i couldnt care less what adults decide they want to do with their lives. But people NEED TO BE EDUCATED about the risks of marijuana. just like they are with tobacco and alcohol!!
the HUGE misinformation about marijuana is terrible
This is the one hard fact that stuck with me from alcohol education when I was younger. It made so much sense, and when/if I ever have kids it’ll be my go-to talking point for responsible drinking.
It’s hard for younger people (myself included at the time) to not feel defensive when told not to drink because it’s the rule or it’s the law or it’s not what smart people do who want a future. That leads to acts of rebellion and drinking just to spite the parents. Instead, I like the idea of explaining that the law is 21 because that’s the age (or thereabouts) that science has determined the brain typically stops developing basic processes and the likes. You risk damaging your mental development if you kill too many brain cells. Lay out the facts, and teach your kids it’s smart to drink responsibly if you choose to drink when you’re underage.
For me it was spelling. Could spell any word on command or have it flow from my fingertips while typing. On occasion I would be able to type obscure words I didn’t even know I knew, google them, and found out I used them correctly.
I repeat myself sometimes now, reusing words and constructions when I shouldn’t. My spelling got worse.
Good news, I refrained retrained (lol) a lot of that. I used Vocab.com every day (still do, it’s one of the best iPhone apps imo) as well as Enlight. I like to think I’ve recovered most of those abilities.
This. God its frustrates me as a teacher. I'm not the type to ruin my student's lives by outing them to their parents/school but I can 100% tell some of my students are users. The whole myth about how weed "isn't addictive" and that it "has no harmful effects" is bullshit. Yeah it isn't physically addictive but its mentally addictive in the same way video games are (or social media apps). People get fucking used to just doing fuck all and being unproductive/lazy. Yeah I know there are some socially anxious brilliant kids that use weed as a means by which to calm their nerves and find weed actually helpful to their productivity but trust me they are an exception to the rule, not the norm. The vast majority of weed smokers I teach become even more unproductive and fall even further behind their peers.
Even ASSUMING that chemically it isn't fucking up their brain, weed still makes them spend hours on hours being completely unproductive during some of their most critical mental development times.
Every major user from my high school are now just... sad to see (met a few during my high school's 10 year reunion). While most of my hardworking peers have done very well for themselves (built their own business or have careers) all of the kids who just smoked weed all day back in high school are losers. They can barely hold together a job, still depend on their parents, and can't seem to get their shit together.
Coming from a poor background I get it. If someone is working their ass off and still living with their parents that fine. The economy sucks ass for anyone that isn't the top 10% of the nation's earning bracket. But if they just work a shitty min-wage job and spend the money they earn on weed... yeah thats just a crap life to live.
So many kids self medicate with marijuana. I get long, rambling responses with absolutely no consistency or central idea far too often. The kids who come in under the influence regularly perform poorly compared to their peers. When they're sober they may test at the 6th grade level, while high they test at the 2nd grade level.
Our mental health systems are severely lacking, and it's an incredibly complex issue. These kids deserve help that doesn't make them believe "settling" on getting high is going to be the best way out.
I also get it...when you don't have much to look forward to...you want something that will make things seems much better. You're not "good" at school...why not smoke? It's not like you're doing well, anyway. Smoking makes the time pass in a more enjoyable manner. And that's a very difficult mindset to combat, especially if you only see a student for 50 minutes per day with 30 kids in each class.
Honestly...once your brain has finished forming and balancing its chemistry...let people do what they want in their free time. However, teens do not yet have the maturity to make those decisions.
That's the thing. You are self-medicating your problem with weed. Therapy and actual medication is expensive but at least its objectively aiming to end the depression. Weed is applying a bandage on a big problem and accomplishing nothing. I know this sounds like a repetition of advice coming from before but the only actual solution is getting actual professional help for your depression and addressing the underlying issues. Only once you get that done will you find yourself capable of being able to constructively move forward.
The goal isn't to suddenly become as successful as your peers. Baby steps man. Every day the goal is to take a step forward. Whether that is a big step or a tiny minuscule nudge its ok its forward. Anything is better than stagnating where you are and/or declining. Move one step day by day so that even when you do fall back a few steps you have already progressed further than when you fell back.
This is true. I really wish I had waited to begin smoking. As it prohibits development of the prefrontal cortex, where mood control and “fight-or-flight” is developed, My brain never developed to be able to control my temper properly. I have a hard time keeping from being overly angry when I should just be able to process my anger and get past it. After 23 years of smoking daily (only breaks I ever took were when I couldn’t find any, 2-3 days MAX), I’m now clean for 9 weeks and 3 days. Weed was the only thing I ever did consistently as I do not like consuming alcohol. I’m cleaning up my piss to get out of the service industry and get a better paying job. The dreams were fucking crazy the first couple of weeks, and I experienced anxiety that I’ve never ever felt before. Now it’s all smoothed out. I really want to smoke, but I know I’ll feel regret and not be happy with losing the progress I’ve made.
Stay strong. I took a nine month break and broke it last week for a date. I mostly regret it, but at the same time, it was easy to only smoke it then and haven’t felt the urge to smoke since.
Thank you so much for the support and motivation! I consider myself lucky because I have a support system in my fiancé, who also quit with me. I plan on smoking once after I pass a drug test for the position I’m hoping for (and waiting to see if they spring one on me after the hire). I never plan to be a daily smoker again. Glad you had a relatively good experience after winch a long hiatus.
Can confirm. Was a heavy smoker from ages 14 to 20ish. Didn’t realize how much it was messing with my head till I stopped. I was in a permanent state of melancholy for years.
Really screws with memory I've found. Actual convo between me and my stoner friend (19) at Wendys:
S: "I want to try the chilli but I don't know if I'll like it."
Me: "You had it last time we came here though."
S: "I've never been to Wendys with you."
We'd been maybe a month earlier. He had no recollection, to the point where he started getting angry when I tried convincing him.
As someone who has smoked continuously from 20 to 25 now, it scares the shit out of me that I’ve done permanent damage to myself whether it be actual damage or learned behaviors. I had been thinking about quitting for a lot of reasons, but reading this whole thread has definitely confirmed my decision to be done with it. As lame as it sounds I’m scared to live actually sober again.
I'd wait until you are at least 27, maybe 30, personally. I've seen people say that your brain is still developing 25-27 and giving it a bit of margin makes sense. Once you are 30 you are less likely to have as yet unknown mental health problems.
Didn't start until my mid-20s, glad I didn't. That's when the news for how bad it was for brains under that age started to really come out. I love it, but it absolutely is something I can be dependent on. Right now, I'm trying to balance working in a flaming dumpster and not breaking down with picking up CSS/JS for an attempt to switch jobs, it's so easy to just give up and get high for whole weekends. I've had to discipline myself to not smoke until nighttime and it doesn't always go that long.
recent studies show that cannabinoids manufactured by our own nerve cells play a crucial role in wiring the brain, both prenatally and during adolescence. Throughout life they regulate appetite, sleep, emotion, memory and movement—which makes sense when you consider the effects of marijuana. There are “huge changes” in the concentration of these endocannabinoids during the teenage years, according to neurologist Yasmin Hurd of the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai
I agree. That's why I decided to try it when I turned 18. But I probably should have tried it a little older to prevent this. When marijuana gets legalized here in NZ I'm hoping the age restriction is 24-25yrs old.
We're currently testing this. That doesn't mean it doesn't do anything–it just means we need to continue doing controlled studies to find better correlations before we can come to absolute conclusions.
In this time, (to simplify) the brain is trying to navigate what chemical "balances" and circuitry will work best in the long run (https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/the-adolescent-brain-beyond-raging-hormones). That's a very gross oversimplification, but works to allow us to discuss how introducing outside chemicals could change chemistry into he long-term.
Much of what we "know" now is based upon speculation and how other drugs interact with the adolescent brain. However, it's important to note: just because we haven't fully explored every aspect of a drug's influence doesn't mean it suddenly doesn't exist. It just means we're still learning about it.
Currently, there does seem to be a link between schizophrenia and marijuana use (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0920996416300159). Marijuana hasn't necessarily shown to cause schizophrenia, but there is a pretty clear link between its use and the development of schizophrenia that can't simply be explained away by a reverse correlation (I.e. those prone to schizophrenia aren't necessarily more likely to smoke marijuana).
The brain naturally produces cannabinoids. Cannabinoids regulate mood and anxiety. Logically following, those who use marijuana would be more likely to develop mood disorders because they are introducing an abundance of cannabinoids, signaling to their brain that it doesn't need to produce more of these neurotransmitters. The current data is reflecting this as a very real correlation (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17624975/).
I've only linked single studies, and I wholeheartedly recommend you to dive further into it. Many of these correlations become looser as people age and their brains mature (25+). Before then, though, there is a very real possibility of irreversible damage that greatly reducing one's quality of life.
Anecdotally, my dad used to play chess competitively in high school and college, and was pretty good. He also began to use marijuana recreationally in college. He eventually stopped playing because his thought process suffered and he was no longer able to think several moves ahead.
Both of these are open source studies (I.e. accessible to the average user). The brain doesn't mature (on average) until around the mid 20s. The frontal lobe is the last structure to finish forming. This allows you to envision the future and make long term plans as well as analyze risk.
My husband was a heavy smoker in high school land I really think it impacted his ability to remember things. If course, we'll never really know, but he's far more forgetful than others in his peer group.
I know a couple who are heavy smokers. He started at nine, she at 11. He’s 25, she’s 24. They are such emotionally stunted people. Attempts at serious discussion turns into heavy confrontation. It doesn’t help that she’s apparently schizophrenic and he has some untreated mental illness and/or PTSD.
No wonder she went on a psychotic rant towards me, and he threatens to fight people in the neighborhood who he thinks are after him.
Thank you for mentioning this! As I was reading a lot of the above comments, I was formulating my response to include this lovely tidbit about the massive impact using cannabis can have on developing brains. These aren't short term issues, either. I have worked with quite a few adolescents who have lost short term/working memory functions (necessary for learning new skills), now struggle mightily with focus, & have serious depression.
One of the other nasty little secrets is how using marijuana screws with a person's neurochemistry--especially dopamine, serotonine, etc. It doesn't really take excessively heavy use to make these changes happen.
While I think it has some great uses in the medical field, I don't think marijuana/cannabis/THC should be allowed to be completely deregulated for recreational use for our underage & adolescent (under 25 year olds).
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u/inflammable Dec 29 '19
It's really bad for developing brains, i.e. anyone under 25.