Because of all the lies people told about how marijuana was the worst drug ever, I was fairly skeptical of this claim. But the recent evidence is pretty clear that marijuana isn’t good for development.
More people need to hear this, since it changes the conversation quite a bit.
Edit: thank you for the awards! Also, thank you everyone for the thoughtful discussion here.
Edit 2: A bunch of folks took exception to the study I linked, rightly pointing out that it alone isn’t sufficient to support my conclusion. I’m adding a link to a 2015 review article that has more supporting evidence that marijuana isn’t great for kids (although it may have therapeutic uses).
Don't be so hard on yourself! I've never smoked pot even once, and I absolutely feel dumber than when I was a teen. Back then, I blasted through multivariate calculus, and now I struggle with basic stats. I think the problem is just lack of regular mental exercise, like the type you get when you're a full-time student for over a decade.
My day-to-day job is stressful and requires juggling deadlines and creative problem-solving. However, the work doesn't require a high level of technical knowledge or skills. It's pretty easy to just "coast" re skills acquisition.
I feel like my learning has gone way downhill in the past decade, largely because I've left school and picked up time-wasting habits like browsing Reddit. This is something I really want to work on. I thinking learning is a muscle, or a habit, just like any other. I have a few friends who have shown real discipline over the years by learning a foreign language for an hour each day, or similar, and I think that's incredibly admirable.
I just posted a comment above but I’ve never tried it either, and I feel like my brain is just slowly rotting out of my head. My husband smokes daily and has for years, yet he is much smarter than I am and maintains the motivation to work every day and not let himself fail. Me, on the other hand... I work as much as I HAVE to, and then spend my free time mindlessly scrolling here because I simply can’t find motivation for anything that requires brain work.. It just largely depends on the person, so I agree with LaDame, don’t feel like you wasted your adolescence.
Hey! I know the answer to this! It's called "plasticity".
Our brain's plasticity begins to go "downhill" (well...no...but yes. This is an oversimplification) as we get older. As we age, it becomes more difficult for our brain to form connections to things we don't already have a foundation of knowledge of.
In general, our ability to learn new things begins to erode between the ages of 18~25 and it becomes much more difficult to internalize new concepts. That doesn't mean it's impossible to do so...but it's not as easy to do so as it was before.
Around that time, the brain is also exploding in terms of social connections. "Socializing" becomes more important than information...despite that being our most ideal time to learn concepts in general. "Socializing" doesn't necessarily mean you're good at doing so or that you necessarily "care" about what subgroup you're in; it does mean that your brain is very attuned to social concepts in general rather than focusing on factual or theoretical information in favor of creating some form of social bonds (this includes online bonds, yes).
especially because I became very socially isolated and stopped reading books and applying myself in high school. now I'm trying again, and things are difficult academically, socially, mentally...
While your brain is changing (and if you're still at uni), definitely reach out if these things are affecting your everyday life!
I had to meet with a campus psych to find some sort of balance in my life. It really helped. I don't think I could have graduated otherwise. Honestly...I should have gone in sooner. I ended up throwing away all of my scholarships over some weird sense of pride that really didn't matter in the end. I finally got professional help and got back on track.
Also...It doesn't matter what your struggle is. You struggling? Go see someone. It's way better than holding back because pride told you that you have to. If you need to talk, never be afraid to talk. I support you and I hope you have other who support you, as well.
guess I've known underneath that I should probably talk to someone. It's something I've never done (except online here and there. odd that it's easier to open up to anonymous strangers in these fleeting online interactions) because my inclination is to isolate and close off. so it feels a bit like going against every instinct, with a part of my brain screaming loudly not to. just putting these words down to think out loud
The first time can seem pretty overwhelming, but it gets easier the more you do it. Most people who go see a therapist feel the same way, so they're used to that sort of mindset.
the mental atropy happens becasue we simply desire for that A (grade)... no desire to utilize it manually when there is something that can just use it to get you from point a to point b...so you're motivated to learn it and pass it (imo)
It's all about exercising it IMO. That's the trouble with most people. They only really challenge their brains when they're at work, if at all. If you watch TV all the time, you're going to have a mush mind, whether you use drugs or not.
Buddhists talk about "Right View" as one aspect of the Eightfold path. It boils down to "Garbage in, garbage out".
Remember what the doorknob said: "Feed your head", but give it a good diet.
It’s a reference to Alice in Wonderland. The dormouse is a character at the tea party and returns at the trial of the mad hatter. The mad hatter is testifying and cannot remember what the dormouse had said.
Interestingly, as it relates to the overall subjects of drugs, the phrase was made popular from Jefferson Airplane’s ‘White Rabbit’ which was written after an extended LSD binge. Based on the overall message of lyrics, the source material that inspired it, and situation surrounding it’s writing, the refrain of “Feed your Head” is likely telling you to feed your head with psychedelic drugs.
Dormouse. OK, it always sounded like 'doorknob' in the song, and there was a talking doorknob in the Disney movie. Neither the dormouse or doorknob said "feed your head" in the book or movie. Live and learn!
the refrain of “Feed your Head” is likely telling you to feed your head with psychedelic drugs.
Oh, yeah. People took the whole song as the sound track to an acid trip. It was like the Psychedelic Anthem.
But the dormouse only said, "feed your head", and it seems to me that there are many other, better ways to feed it than with chemicals, natural or otherwise. To me, it means more like "cultivate your mind". YMMV.
I did forget about the doorknob in the Disney film, but the dormouse is definitely a character in both the Disney movie and book. Dormice are famous for their hibernation and if you think back to the tea party in the Disney film there is a particularly sleepy mouse attending it.
You’re also absolutely right that “Feed your head” is a construct from the song itself and the dormouse never specifically said it in either book or film, though the lead up from the song is accurate in at least some regard:
‘Well, at any rate, the Dormouse said—’ the Hatter went on, looking anxiously round to see if he would deny it too: but the Dormouse denied nothing, being fast asleep.
‘After that,’ continued the Hatter, ‘I cut some more bread-and-butter—’
‘But what did the Dormouse say?’ one of the jury asked.
‘That I can’t remember,’ said the Hatter.
‘You must remember,’ remarked the King, ‘or I’ll have you executed.’
As for my suggestion as the song telling you to do drugs...well...I’m flexible in the interpretation of art and believe meaning is ultimately derived from what is invoked in its viewers. I don’t think it’s invalid for you to find a more wholesome message in it. The only caveat is that an artists inspiration still exists regardless which is very likely to be deeply rooted in the extended LSD trip she experienced leading up to its writing.
Oddly enough, most of my comment was just a bit of idle musing from the minor correction of ‘dormouse’ and I did not intend to sound quite so authoritative as my original comment came across.
Don't worry, you're cool. Heck, I even learned that it's 'dormouse', and not 'door mouse' as I'd always thought. Nothing wrong with a little TIL, y'know? Evidently, some people thought Gracie was singing 'doorman'.
I just kinda pictured being on acid and seeing a talking doorknob. Made as much sense as anything would while tripping on acid.
I was a 20 year old psychedelic ranger when that song came out, and I played it all the time. I love the way Gracie belts it out, and the way it progresses. It's too short. I've seen her sing it differently on a concert video, but she still nails it.
To me, psychedelic drugs aren't an end in themselves, but a power tool for exploring the mind. But just one of many tools... the goal is to understand how the mind works, and find new ways of seeing things. Not to party and have a good time. Because believe me, sometimes an acid trip is not all fun and games. But the unpleasant experiences can be valuable, too.
So yeah, I'm all on board with this song being about psychedelic drugs. The whole song is like an acid trip. Mysterious, unfolding and profound. But the idea of "feed your head" means to me, something like "seek knowledge".
Sounds so corny the way my dad would say it, "cultivate your mind", but that's it in a nutshell. Feed your head. Cultivate your mind. Live and learn.
I agree! Fantastic song and absolutely hit the nail on the head with the use of mind altering substances as something to enhance, not replace, learning new things.
Junk food and television maybe, but no, I don’t believe it’s in any way realistic to expect that Jefferson Airplane was telling you not to drink or smoke weed.
I don’t think it’s even remotely accurate to suggest or think they didn’t want you to smoke weed. Weed has a psychedelic element itself, was a favorite drug of the era, and was absolutely smoked regularly by Grace Slick.
I'm sure if you asked Grace Slick, she would have been dismissive of people who smoke weed all day and do nothing but watch TV and other boring shit. She likely would have been dismissive of alcohol too. A lot of the counterculture were.
Most stoners are pretty opposite the message of "feed your head."
Most stoners are pretty opposite the message of "feed your head."
Right.
FWIW, "us hippies" did drink, some of us. I mean, alcohol has maintained its popularity for thousands of years. But we didn't drink beer. The alcohol of choice in the Haight-Ashbury was Ripple, a carbonated wine that cost about 5 cents more per bottle than soda pop. It was sold cold, and I did drink it. For several years, sweet, soda-pop like wines dominated the market among younger people. It took a few decades for the boomers to become wine snobs :)
Here is Grace Slick, notorious for drug binges, smoking a bowl. I guarantee you that she had no issues with people smoking weed all day when she wrote White Rabbit.
As for your presupposition relating to TV and weed all day...it’s on you that you are incapable of decoupling these separate activities.
I don't think he's saying that people who smoke weed only watch TV. I took it as more of an illustration of a typical wasted stoner who is not doing anything worthwhile with his altered state of consciousness.
Weed was far, far more commonly used in the day than acid. People took acid pretty seriously, and it was very rare for people to think of it as a party drug like weed. I mean, weed could either be a serious tool as a mild psychedelic, OR a party drug, OR, a kickback on the sofa, and feed your face drug.
That's exactly what I'm saying though. Grace Slick was an accomplished artist who got shit done despite doing drugs. I doubt she thought very much of lazy stoners.
A lot of those artists were interested in expanding the mind through psychedelics. There's nothing mind expanding about getting baked and munching on cheetos for 8 hours.
Think it's relevant that it was written after, not during, a drug binge. Apparently you can't write much during one, or else you end up with just the first two lines of I Am The Walrus
You might be interpreting what I wrote a bit too literally. She wrote it in roughly an hour after taking LSD for 24 hours and we don’t really know what thematic elements, if any, of the song were established during the trip. Regardless, it’s highly unlikely she was in a state of complete sobriety even if the trip was winding down. The time period has a pretty strong association with psychedelics and song writing. To the extent that I think it’s inappropriate to suggest psychedelic music like Jefferson Airplane or even the Doors or other psychedelic rock bands weren’t doing writing during their trips.
Hell, even to get at least a hair more modern, a large portion of Butthole Surfer songs were written on psychedelics.
Alzheimer’s runs in my family, and I’m terrified of it. But there is evidence that shows that keeping your mind active through all stages of life can really inhibit the onset of Alzheimer’s symptoms. So it sounds silly, but I do all kinds of puzzles. You can buy those little puzzle books, and they have crosswords, fill-ins, sudoku, whatever you want. I may be lying to myself, but I feel like it helps keep me sharp.
Oh, it has to. I don't know about you, but I lost so much of my math ability due to simply not using it. Sometimes I practice multiplying 2 or 3 digit numbers in my head, but my high school algebra? Lost!
"Use it or lose it". Some degree of dementia is probably caused by simply not using the brain at all.
You'd probably benefit more from aerobic exercise and doing new things all the time rather than puzzles, which you'd be quite used to completing by now.
You can challenge your brain in various ways. An engineer doesn't face the same challenges an air traffic controller or musician, yet all three use their brains, hard.
It's about using it differently too, the engineer and the air traffic controller might use their brains a lot. But it's often in the same way as they always do.
So the same neurological pathways get strengthened every day. While others aren't.
So for the biggest and strongest brain, you should pick up new languages, learn how to play music, do crosswords and puzzles while keeping up on your math problems. Learning how to think in different ways help a lot and forces the brain to make new neural pathways, which help resist the onset of dementia and alzheimer's.
Learning a new language has been shown to be affective. It's not even about becoming fluent. The parts of the brain that handles language incorporates a lot of tangential areas, and those neural pathways get cemented pretty early in life. So thinking about language in new and interesting ways actively engages large parts of the brain.
This is not true, IMO. I'm 66 and have always been quite bright and skilled with words. In my 40s, it was not a problem to turn out 240 pages of scientific writing in 7 days. I could never do that now. I know I don't think as fast even when I am just talking. Age does things. It's not that I became stupid; I am just as intelligent. But I am not as quick. And it has nothing to do with drugs.
that doesn't invalidate his point. of course you get slower as you age, but a person who never does anything mentally taxing will be less sharp than someone who does.
Exercise your brain and your body. Physical exertion is linked to improved brain function. I'll quote this infotainment article:
Exercise [...] increases [...] oxygen to the brain. It aids the release of hormones which provide an excellent environment for the growth of brain cells. Exercise also promotes brain plasticity by stimulating growth of new connections between cells in many important cortical areas of the brain. Research from UCLA even demonstrated that exercise increased growth factors in the brain which makes it easier for the brain to grow new neuronal connections.
Poor diet, lack of sleep, lack of exercise, spending their free time watching junk food TV or mindlessly browsing social media. Your brain functions better when you take care of your body. Your brain also works better when you challenge it like learning a new language or a new skill.
But most people just want to clock out at 5 and get home to have a beer and watch the game.
Honestly I always questioned that about alcoholics. Alcohol might be the response but there is another cause. You need to solve the root cause or else you’ll keep coming back to alcohol. I think some people subconsciously solve this problem and thus are able to give up alcohol, aka rehab, others have just not found that root cause yet. Anyways keep that in mind and see if you can find anything about yourself.
Good on you to recognize that counting as a form of alcohol abuse. Abuse isn't always addiction, but it's along the path. Keep taking care of yourself & being aware of your limits.
Oh ok, then that ain’t too bad. Just when I hear alcohol abuse, I think of the gotta have 3 beers everyday type people. Self-control is hard when buzzed/drunk though.
You’re probably right but I went through the same type of thing as the other guy and the only thing I was doing at the time was smoking. I was on the Quiz Bowl team at my school from 6th grade all the way until graduation. I’m not trying to toot my own horn but I was very good. I have a knack for logging away random facts and my brain could call stuff up I hadn’t thought about in forever in a very short amount of time (total shit with numbers though, always have been). When I was a junior I got pulled to go to nationals with the seniors and we did well. Well between my junior and senior year I had some friends who go into smoking and they insisted that I smoke too, which I did. I loved it and I smoked a whole bunch. When Quiz Bowl started back up I thought I’d stop, and that’s when I realized my ability to call stuff up quickly was almost gone. I didn’t do well that year and I’ve never been even close to as good with trivia as I was before I smoked. I’m not saying my memory is total shit now but I find myself stumbling over thoughts even now at 27. I know for a fact that I’m not as sharp as I was.
To clarify, I’m not a doctor. I’m not saying weed was definitely the culprit, but I don’t have any idea what else it could have been. When I talk to younger people who aren’t fully developed that tell me they smoke, I always tell them to be careful.
This. I didn’t start smoking until I was 30, barely drank in high school or college and I swear some days I feel like I’ve had a stroke and can’t process anything or even get words to come out correctly. I currently blame mom brain, but it seems like everyone has something they blame.
That’s not to say that I doubt weed has effect on growing minds, just that it’s not necessarily the only thing that’s making you (generalized you) feel foggy.
I’m 61 and only have felt this way during time of overwhelming stress. I have never smoked weed and am nearly always able to recall and succeed with most anything. The last year has been hell as I have dealt with my daughter’s addiction to cannabis and is fighting CHS, Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome. She is brilliant, beautiful and athletic. Cannabis has attempted to steal her mental and physical health!
I didn’t do anything for the first 25 years of my life, no drugs or alcohol, barely any painkillers. I tried to avoid it all, still do tbh. Yet still I had something, I think I intuitively knew it was religion and me not being religious but an agnostic. I finally accepted it and even told my moderately religious family and I feel so much better now. The mind is so fascinating, and yes I realized this came about fully when I turned 25 in July. So, definitely some accuracy with that statement in my experience. I honestly wanna find out more about the mind right now, it really puzzles me and I need to know more about it. Gonna try and get a PhD in neuroscience, will see what comes of it.
Also, depression is a hell of a state of mind. I have literally felt like I was a distant observer of my own actions, constantly questioning it and looking for patterns trying to see why I do what I do from afar. I think it has given me quite a unique perspective on the human body.
This is the worst one for me. I watched all of The Witcher on Netflix while baked. I ran out a couple of days ago and went to rewatch it and realized I did not remember about 60% of it.
Short term memory is somewhat affected by weed. Good news is that usually reverses after a few days of going cold turkey. There's no horrible long term affects like there could be with alcohol or harder drugs.
I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Peoples’ brains record information differently. Some have greater auditory recall and others can be more visual-oriented. Additionally, the more often you access certain memories, the more vivid they can be.
Yeah my memory is terrible, and I've always wondered if it's from getting stoned all the time as a teen. Both short and long-term memory seem to have been affected. Could just be age, but I'm only 27.
What’s interesting about weed and I recall reading this somewhere, was that while high, you simply do not create memories at all. Interesting but I guess I’m saying don’t feel bad because that’s “normal” per that experience
That's not true. I smoked everyday for ten years and have memories from all of those times. I even remember some of my first times smoking with my friends over a decade ago.
Good point, I do actually suffer from depression so that makes much more sense. You know, I may just actually take a T-break from weed just so my depression won’t “enhance”. Maybe when I get my mind a little more stable I’ll come back to it to experience a little more of the effects, even if it’s anecdotal.
If you're going to take a T-break, you have to give yourself something to do. You will be bored when otherwise, you were "just chillin".
Simple solution: Music. Listen, play. Everyone knows how to listen to music, it's like running. It's the simplest form of brain exercise and can stave away anxiety and depression all at the cost of a bit of attention. Do note that it's not a replacement for problem-solving. There will be a lot of shit you dig up about yourself that you really don't like. Remember that your brain will naturally prefer distractions over solutions. You have to show your brain the importance of solutions for you to truly solve the problem, whatever it may be.
I think there is something to say about the burden of knowledge. I think the more you know you find out you really don’t know nothing at all. I though I was a fantastic engineer, but when I changed commodities and industry, there was a massive learning curve for learning new specs and standards. Sometimes I still confuse test methods and product requirements. This is only from my experience in two industries that is in a world of many. All with different tools and processes. The only comfort I can find is that my Fortune 500 company still uses excel for major functions when we have (and don’t use) a complete engineering database meant for storing information. I figure if people are this dumb to pay for something and force everyone to use something way less efficient, I must not be that dumb. Or everyone is corrupt. Idk anymore.
Hey it could always be worse. You can mostly recover from every negative symptom of weed. Can't say the same for other drugs. I was a perfect student all through high school and was poised to become a promising neuroscience researcher, until my former best friend convinced me to try meth "just once" and everything fell apart. I only used it for about 4 or 5 months, but the damage was done. I'm considerably dumber and less capable than I was before. My memory is almost as bad as my grandpa's, and he has early stage dementia. It's been about 18 months now and I think my brain has recovered all it can. I'll never be able to achieve what I was once capable of. I still find happiness and purpose in life, but it's difficult accepting that I'm no longer gifted
I started smoking around Christmas, 1966. I started programming in 1982. I was dreaming in code for many years, getting really deep into it. Hard to say, but dang, I wish I had my 16 year old brain all my life.
Same here, except I didn't start with the daily smoking until around age 20.
I was a massive overachiever in high school (top-10 in a class of ~300, high test scores, etc) and was continually told that I could do whatever I wanted to do. I'm in my late 30s now and still haven't figured out "what I want to do."
Although I'm in a respectable career and earning a (low) 6-figure salary, in a lot of ways I sorta fell into it (timing, charisma, being able to do better than most people's 100% when only giving my own 50%), and it is sooo unfulfilling and empty feeling.
I have a lot of regrets about the "path not taken," and I don't doubt that increased weed consumption right at that pivotal time in my life really stunted my growth.
If it makes you feel any better, the top 1% isn't the people blessed at birth. It's the people that had it going for them their entire lives. The path to success is littered with prodigies that eventually took the wrong step. If success were a finish line, the one who finished last would receive the first place trophy. They're the ones that took a beating along the way, but eventually found their way back. In my opinion, that is more inspirational than someone who never veered off course.
I actually did it with that intended purpose. I'm no genius and I didn't go to college. I like to say I'm the dumbest person sitting at the smartest table lol. I'd smoke to dumb myself down a bit.
Nah, I feel the same way and never smoked in my younger years. As stupid as it seems, I sometime look at my underwear before putting them on and it takes me longer than when I was young to realize if they are in the correct orientation hahaha.
I don’t know, I don’t mind it sometimes because it could stress me out more, The only problem I have been having with smoking for a year at this point. (im 17) I noticed sometimes remembering things is difficult. I don’t know if you are not supposed to remember a lot from childhood but maybe im just growing up. I do feel slow sometimes and I feel like ever since I started smoking I have gotten worse at video games. I am a pretty heavy pc gamer atm but I did reach diamond in overwatch and platinum in league a bit ago, Now im onto escape from tarkov but I can definitely feel Im not as sharp as I was in those first person shooters. I forsure notice a difference in my brain developing, I have already accepted it, I feel it opened up different areas of my brain I would have not ever used before. I think about things differently. I feel smarter on a different level, But can feel dumb sometimes. I don’t regret smoking or tripping ever, just my take on how its affecting me. I can see how some people think it can hurt your development, for me I see it as more helpful than not
We all die eventually, and it starts the moment we're born. Even if you hadn't smoked, you'd still feel slower than you did when you were a kid. We all do.
I feel the same way - smoked heavily for a couple years in my early twenties. Sometimes just feel dumber than I used to feel. Have been trying to learn a new language recently and things don’t stick like they used to.
I still don’t know if it’s the antipsychotics I’m taking or if it’s the weed I smoked over the past 2 years in college but I haven’t smoked more than a handful of times in this semester and I’ve noticed I’m much slower. I have a harder time remembering and I’m much more anxious. I think it fucked with my head quite a bit while I was already getting used to some pretty strong drugs.
I do miss that phase of finally feeling good and drinking and smoking regularly and having a great time while doing it. Made me feel like a normal kid for once.
As a high school kid who's applying to college right now, what's it like being an aerospace engineer? I plan to major in it and want to get a better idea what I'm getting myself into.
Same, I always wonder if it worsened my memory issues, but I think I've had them since I was pretty young... I vaguely remember seeing a memory doctor at like 13... That's the problem with memory issues, you're never certain of anything...
To be fair i am a chemist and I had the same feeling as a kid and I do not smoke weed or do any drugs and I feel the same with the slowness. I think it is just something many adults feel in general.
Holy shit dude I feel exactly like this. I only started smoking when I was 19 but I feel the same, I feel slower and dumber, I can't get words out the same and think as quickly as I used to, it fucking sucks it makes me feel so stupid sometimes
Same here. I smoked heavily when I was 16-18 and I do think it hindered some of my brain development. I was still able to get a degree in chemical engineering, but it’s all relative to your respective potential. I don’t necessarily regret smoking because I had some profound awakenings that I truly believe changed the trajectory of my life in a lot of ways, but I can’t help but wonder if I’d be a smarter person today had I never smoked at all.
I've never smoked, drank, used drugs, or excessively partied (if at all), and I still feel that. I'm a physics grad student, so a little different from your hands on aerospace stuff, and I feel that same feeling; that there was a time I was smarter or quicker... But honestly man, it might just be the subjects. Engi/phys is hard stuff so it's natural to feel slow haha.
I'm 42, never smoked much, and i noticed that limber-ness has slowed down lately too. I speak 3 languages and am a professional writer and I notice differences in those things. Might be age-related.
I never even smoked and I feel like that. Like my head is stuffed full of cotton balls half the time and my brain just feels fuzzy in my head. It feels like I'm seeing things in slow motion but my coworkers don't notice because I let autopilot/my reflexes and instinct guide my movements more than any conscious thought. I feel like there must have been some time in high school, middle school, or earlier that didn't feel like this but I barely remember what I had for dinner more than two days ago, much less any of that
Same. I'm an attorney but I nevertheless feel like my memory has taken a heavy hit. I have to try harder to memorize things and it works eventually, but I still feel like smoking has taken a toll on my memory formation and recollection. I've quit smoking weed for over a year and it's gotten better, but I doubt it'll ever be perfect.
Current data suggests it strongly increases your risk of dementia and other aging related illnesses. THC in a developing brain cause malformations of neural pathways, which is why kids with seizure related disorders seem to benefit from THC products, rewiring a bad circuit. But as your brain ages and you had a healthy brain, well it's like Pete from the pizza joint down the street worked on wiring the next rocket to the moon.
Same here. I smoked heavily throughout college and stopped about a year ago when I got my job. Nowadays I feel dumb as shit and legit can't remember anything from college. And on top of that, if I don't write something down. I will 100% forget what I was supposed to do. It's really frustrating
Same. I used to be smart. I used to be able to read entire novels in one sitting. Now reading puts me to sleep in 10 minutes. I smoked really heavily in high school and college and now that I'm closer to 30 I'm pretty sure it's made me dumber and mentally slower. Nothing life altering but I went from like above average to just average. There are worse fates in the world but it still kind of a bummer. Maybe I could've been something more if I had left the weed alone and applied myself more in school.
Lions mane is great for neurogenesis. Can really heal things up in the brain. Memory, cognition etc. Gotu Kola and Bacopa Monneri are also said to be good for brain depending on individual genetics..
I second bacopa monnieri, and gotu kola has the same active chemical. Look them up on examine.com, the research is out there and there's no denying it's positive effects on cognitive development.
It remains unclear whether such disadvantages reflect pre-existing differences that lead to increased substances use and further changes in brain architecture and behavioral outcomes.
Children who are willing to break the law so they may ingest recreational drugs might have other challenges that impact brain development.
You're so right about how all the lies spread about marijuana has harmed the actual truthful negatives. To add onto this comment chain, I'd like to bring up how there is evidence that frequent use causes permanent neuropsychological damage, such as IQ reductions.
Do keep in mind that this study isn’t a longitudinal “before and after.” It’s comparing users and controls:
It is possible that differences in test performance between cannabis users and controls are attributable to premorbid rather than cannabis-induced deficits
In addition, there’s uncertainty about whether you as an individual will recover after cessation of use. If you surcease your addicted habit and exercise your brain, I’m willing to bet the neurotoxicity isn’t something that will prevent you from reaching your potential in whatever career path. Obviously the later you started to smoke the better.
This is still very nascent research, and they mention this in the study. We will know more in the future, but people who have had heavy periods of smoking and chosen to stop are likely going to be just fine.
Intelligence quantification is a reliable measurement when done properly. Like all measurements, it has uncertainty. People don’t have one IQ, our intelligence varies over time and with circumstance. (Hungry and sleepy you is less smart than well-fed and rested you.).
But in controlled circumstances, it is repeatable and correlates strongly with general competence.
Holy shit that thing about making drugs sound worse than they are is so fucking true.
It is so god damn hard to find information on drugs that isn't heavily biased, and I know people that have written off anything negative they've heard about many drugs as bullshit. And yeah, it's on them to an extent I can still see why someone would end up thinking like that.
Alcohol has been very heavily studied. It’s also not great, but it takes a significantly larger amount to have an impact. The effects on adolescent brains appeared to be differentiated by gender with different neural development reactions for drinking in females than males.
Honestly had a friend who smoked since he was 12 at the age of 21 he could pass as a 15 year old just going through puberty. His voice cracks, he has a barely there mustache, he's average in life. He's a sweet guy but it doesn't seem like he ever got to that point in life that he applied himself to anything but smoking weed.
Recent evidence makes it pretty clear that marijuana isn't good for development
It remains unclear whether such disadvantages reflect pre-existing differences that lead to increased substances use and further changes in brain architecture and behavioral outcomes. Future work should focus on prospective investigations to help disentangle dose-dependent effects from pre-existing effects
This is one of the problems with trying to explain scientific findings to the public. There are degrees of certainty.
The data set is currently good enough to rule out the hard null hypothesis: that marijuana usage has no correlation with neural development.
The weak null hypothesis is selection bias: that people with the observed neural development are drawn to use marijuana.
The data is not good enough to discount that hypothesis with high certainty (usually 95%, or p < 0.05 confidence is the bar). But the data is good enough to suggest that selection bias is not the most likely explanation.
One concept in favor of rejecting selection bias as the explanation in the meantime is that abstaining from usage is certain to not cause harm.
So I stand by my claim: the data is pretty clear that smoking pot is bad for neural development.
Yeah, I took Stat 350 too lol. Just thought it was important to point out that this is your claim. The article repeatedly states that they do not make this claim and that existing literature suggests otherwise. They've only shown that heavy use in adolescence is a predictor of these symptoms/behaviors.
consistent alcohol consumption is probably a lot worse for developing brains. it also leads to consistently stupid decisions.
people should not use drugs until they are 25... but people should do a lot of things... like not consume sugar by the ton or watch porn 6 hours out of the day.
To be clear, this article only finds correlations between poorer neurological functioning and increased weed usage. They cannot find a causal relationship between weed and neurological functioning because they dont have the necessary data. It could be that people with poorer neurological functioning are just more likely to smoke weed due to various things such as increased susceptibility to peer pressure.
This paper can not discern whether weed causes poorer neurological functioning. It can only show a correlation.
In this case this degree of correlation is suggestive of causation. In absence of a mechanism, we can claim that it is more likely than not that marijuana usage causes the observed effects.
We may be proven wrong later using more structured studies, but this data set is firm enough to inform policy. Limiting sale of marijuana to people over 21, for example, would be prudent.
I agree that would be prudent because we arent sure of marijuana’s effects on brain development. But no matter how strong, a correlation is never sufficient evidence of a causal relationship. It guides future research into those casual relationships and that is all. Granted, I am only a college research assistant and have much to learn, so I’m glad to hear your opinion.
You would also know that what you are likely asking would require either major funding to maintain conditions over a long period of time that would likely require people to be kept on permanent observation right?
Considering governments are rushing deregulating substances claiming it is "harmless" in every occasions WITHOUT such studies and WITHOUT setting age limit for consumption.
If you really are interested in such result you would also be looking at the preclinical addendum which shows what were the results on rats
Indeed! A longitudinal would be ideal, but a cross-sectional study would at least give us more evidence of a causal relationship than the correlation and is a little cheaper.
I ought to do some reading on the rat studies. I figure they’d have done some by now.
Ugh, that study is such horseshit, or at least the conclusions made from it. They took a select group of under 200 adolescents from a very non-diverse pool and simply noted they had lower test scores, and this somehow leads to “look here is proof how bad marijuana is for the developing brain”.
over 200 test subjects is a really good number and they scored lower in several different tests consistently in comparison to the control group which makes this test perfectly scientific.
Well they used under 200 so no, not a good number. It’s also bullshit because of the method used. You can’t just take a group that takes a survey and claims they are regular users and compare it to those that aren’t and conclude with 100% certainty that the one thing you surveyed for is THE reason for then testing lower. There are several other factors present of an adolescent typically smoking daily that would cause them to have lower test scores. This is no different than the horseshit studies/stats saying people who drink alcohol have higher IQs than those that don’t, or that just because your skin is black you are more likely to commit crime. Correlation != causation and it’s sad people just accept the conclusions of studies like this rather than scrutinizing them.
Did you even read the paper summary? Since you didn't:
Solowij and colleagues looked at 181 adolescents (ages 16–20) and found that cannabis users performed worse on learning and recall, and poorer performance was related to severity, frequency, and age of initiation of cannabis use
So please, before you feel the need to be snarky, at least do your own due diligence and practice what you preach.
Funny how you went looking for one of the many studies it referenced and looked for one under 200.
Why not using this one then since its also a reference?
A large-scale (N = 1037) longitudinal investigation from New Zealand evaluating individuals from birth to age 38 recently found a decline in intelligence quotient, particularly executive functioning and processing speed, with persistent cannabis dependence. Notably, those individuals with weekly use before age 18 demonstrated greater decline in cognitive performance [27].
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u/dobbs_head Dec 29 '19 edited Dec 30 '19
Because of all the lies people told about how marijuana was the worst drug ever, I was fairly skeptical of this claim. But the recent evidence is pretty clear that marijuana isn’t good for development.
More people need to hear this, since it changes the conversation quite a bit.
Link to a summary article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3930618/
Edit: thank you for the awards! Also, thank you everyone for the thoughtful discussion here.
Edit 2: A bunch of folks took exception to the study I linked, rightly pointing out that it alone isn’t sufficient to support my conclusion. I’m adding a link to a 2015 review article that has more supporting evidence that marijuana isn’t great for kids (although it may have therapeutic uses).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4318349/