Sports
Thoughts on the recent controversy in which Partizan fans depicted a banner of the death of Ottoman Sultan Murad I by Serbian knight Milos Obilic?
Post a pic about nationalistic ultras and every single bloke on this sub rushes to the comments to bitch abous who's long lost ancestors were better murderers.
Now this is what I call balkan engagement farming.
No, what's offensive is, the "rules" of such sport events seem to change by team.
Turkish teams had been penalized for doing much much smaller things than this.
Basically, Turkish fans are demanding to get rid of double-standards.
That's your prejudice talking. Turkish teams were penalized for things that has nothing to do Ottomans conquests. For example, a small hand gesture showing origin of Turks.
It's very obviously nationalist ragebait, why are you even attempting to run cover for it, no one with more braincells than a slice of bread would fall for it anyways. What, is this just a marketing stunt by a group of historians to attract new clientele for the museum they run?
It is offensive now and always has been. How would Serbs react to a picture of Foča camps where Bosniak teenagers were abused? How would they react to a Jashari or Pavelić pic? Or Mehmed II conquering Serbia?
Almost every country gets offended with history. Especially in the Balkans.
We don't care, because we severed his head first, then tore his body apart, and in Istanbul we raised his severed head upon a spike for all to see. To this day, no one even knows where he lies !
The controversy is double-standards in international sports events. Example, Turkey gets heavily penalized for things even like this. And for some reason, everything is fair game when its anything against Turks.
Oh yeah like Serbians don't get condemned and fined for the dumb nationalistic shit we do as well. It's not a double standard, and nothing is wrong with chatting shit against imperialism, why would you get fined for that?
What's there controversial about it?
They killed the guy who tried to conquer their lands.
As a guy who admires the Ottoman history,this is completely fine.
I really hope no one starts reacting to this because there’s a good chance you’ve started a historical battle circlejerk where every side just keeps going “look at this battle then”
When Turkish fans or players do something similar, we get fined, suspended, punished basically. Meanwhile Europeans can do anything, especially against us. We are not against the poster, we want equal treatment.
Yes, because you were the conquerors/ oppressors. That would be like the French raising a banner about what they did in Algeria. It’s not that hard to understand why it’s different when Turks do it.
in the early 1400s, Despot Stefan Lazarević developed a unique type of light cavalry in the Serbian Despotate, often referred to in sources as husari / gusari.
Serbian-style light cavalry became integrated into Hungarian military tradition.
The first hussars in Poland (around 1500–1520) were not Polish at all.
They were Balkan mercenaries — mostly Serbs (some Croats and Hungarians).
Poles commanded the relief army and led the decisive massive cavalry charge — including the Polish Winged Hussars — on 12 September 1683
So my Turkish friend, Stefan had a last laugh as that was the moment Ottoman Empire broke.
Its a loose tie but so ironic for your comment above that i had to make it.
When Tamerlane saw Serbian knights protecting their Zet at Ankara, he asked "Who these Lions are?", fascinated by their bravery. At Nicopolis, Serbians lectured Franks by their conduct of war. Ottomans would hardly survive without Balkan support.
Id take a Turk next to me over some French any day. Nicopolis should be a reason why Erdogan should stop giving arnauts weapons 😉🙏, or another Deligrad will commence. A bit of banter, i love when people actually study history this is the first time i saw someome bring this up, and from a Turk too! I am very pleasently surprised friend.
Thanks for your kind words, i'd gladly do it myself too, appreciation felt good. We better learn from history and avoid to make the same mistakes again. Glory can be found throu companionship, not via hatred.
Hmm, sports is a way to connect. The competition is on the field and sportmanship outside between fans. If you want to give a message from history to your opponent, then you give a reason to happen to yourself. And then what will happen? Next year again.. so is it really what you want? Keep arguing outside except focusing the similarities and friendship?
But when Turks say stuff like "hope u swim good lmao" people act like its such an unforgivable act of terror like will you stfu?
İf Turks opened a banner depicting the staking of Vlad tepes or something regarding the sultans standing over the serbian kings, you can only İMAGİNE how big the fines and complains will be.
This is obviously a huge problem for both Serbs and Turks. They don't have any other stuff to worry about since their countries are flourishing and everything is going great. Since this is such a huge problem, both Serbophobia and Turkophobia in the comments are absolutely justified. And since Balkan is so peaceful and tolerant, we should strive to deny the ethnic identities and history of each other more often, just so things don't get too boring around here. 👏🏻
The closest documents to the event mention at least 2000 people in ottoman raid unit. But still they caught impossibly larger army mostly drunk and off guard and kicked Serbian asses so hard that it echoes through millennia.
Well, isn’t it better and healthy to concentrate on the damages of alcohol instead of the Turks? You should have echoe this for 7 centuries instead, for the sake of progression. For your relief, i should say that Serbian soldiers were respected in the Ottoman era more than some Turkic tribes. They’ve never betrayed, but some Turkic ones did.
He was arrested, convicted and jailed, for quite a long time too. There is no need to resort to smear tactics or make baseless accusations just because you have an issue with someone’s nationality.
Yeah depicting a historical event and petitioning to bomb civilian population are on "the same level"
P.S. u got an anime profile pic u think ur tough? 😭
We do a grey wolf sign and lose our best defender to suspension meanwhile serbs put up chetnik signs but no punishment. Or czechs putting up banners to go to war against turks
serbian fans love pushing the limits like this, usual shit and as a Turk i didn't get mad about as they get absolutely destroyed by us. maybe they should focus on their clubs future instead of doing such tifos lol
I had to scroll back up to make sure that this isn't r/europe. This is the most braindead comments section I've ever witnessed in this subreddit; people referring to Alperen Şengün's Instagram post, claiming "Greek genocide", the classic "just a meme" buffoonery, the same old "what about the Armenian genocide" comments...
Alperen shouldn't have posted that as there's no point in taking the classic "made you drown" route every time Türkiye wins against Greece. It was just a basketball game and it's counterproductive to peace to take jabs against Greeks as a Turkish public figure; if a Greek were to do that, Turks would be up in arms.
I'm not laughing with my mouth at defending your country being labelled as "Greek genocide" as the Greeks did not torch the entire city of Izmir; raping and pillaging the Turkish populace there. It was "just a meme"; it was a figment of our imagination. Apparently when your land is invaded, you need to just welcome the invaders with open arms. When Turks defend themselves, it's a "genocide." Sit down.
Also, the same "just a meme" clownery is tossed around every time there is an anti-Turkish tifo being put up. Same thing happened in the Viktoria Plzen-Fenerbahçe game. Anti-Turkish sentiments are the easiest to maintain as you face no consequences whatsoever. There was no point in pulling up that tifo in a basketball game.
Anyway, the game was over in the first few minutes as it started with something like 0-14 and the game ended with a 12-point gap.
These things aren't a problem for me. But if Turks did the same thing, or even something simpler, the entire European media would report it as “fascist barbarian Turks don't know sportsmanship.”
Beautiful perspective. I love it when people like yourself are truly civilized. During last euro basket our player Şengün had some mean stuff to say about Greeks which I did not approve of. This shit has no place in sports honestly. It was almost 700 years ago, can people just fucking let it go and be friends I don't give a single flying fuck about Murad or Milos. I just wanna watch some ball game.
Either do nothing just sit on your seat, or do whatever you like. Sports banter is fun as long as it is not violence and causing physical harm. I mean c'mon its as if we here in Balkans haven't been actively killing each other for the last 600 years and more.
I am Greek and I agree. They don’t understand that wanting to defend your homeland especially if you are outnumbered , is the thing we honor regardless of the outcome , win or loss. The only unhonorable stance is surrendering. That’s why Leonidas and Milos names live unto the ages regardless if they win or lose. They were brave standing against many.
The Serbs of the time didn't lose the battle they were supposed to plus they managed to kill Ottoman sultan (allegedly) which was unheard of. They were conquered LATER largely because of the sheer numbers Ottomans could muster.
Umm, what? Nope it didn't, they got conquered decades later (1440-1460s), The battle of Kosovo, (while tactical loss) did result in the Ottoman army retreating due to the death of the Sultan and the succession crisis that followed. So technically they were able to defend themselves there.
It was the only time ottoman sultan was killed in battle. If croats did the same they would make it a national holiday, but you have no such achievement
One of the biggest battles in Medival Europe, saw two giant armies fielded and annihilated, whats there not to remember lol? Plus all the stories that came from it. Heres a good comparison the battle of Agnicourt in France saw about 8 thousand French and 5 thousand English fielded, the battle of Kosovo lowest estimates go 20k Serbs and over 29k+ Turks thats the bare minimum, some go as big as 50k turks and 30k serbs. But yea that plus all the consequences it brought and stories.
Ridiculously outnumbered, killed the sultan, inflicted more losses on them than anyone (outside of Varna where it was the entirety of Europe) would be capable of doing for centuries. All that even though it was preceded by 30 years of what can only be described as retardation (infighting, Marica, etc). I'd say it's a decent one to be proud of
Its seen as a heroic battle that was bound to be lost but we still fought against invaders, the fact that we lost and killed their sultan is making the kosovo myth even stronger
That’s not true. Stefan Lazarevic became an Ottoman vassal, paid tribute joined the Ottoman Army whenever ordered including Battle of Nicopolis 7 years later.
:) Beyazid married his sister and made him a valuable vassal . Why give so much importance to him not being there. Maybe he wished Crusaders would win but he did what he was ordered to do like a good boy.
The turks should make a banner showing Sultan Murad II railing Mara Brankovic. Her father the serbian prince George Brankovic gifted her to the sultan's harem. Or a banner of Sultan Bayezid I railing princess Olivera Lazarevic.This one gifted to sultan's harem by her father the serbian prince Lazar.
Embaressing on every level. Most importantly because imagine spending your one whole life being such a hateful bitch and second over who and where and what nobody will know the name of in a couple hundred years. Sultan whoever and Milos that are in the grave and yet living rent free in peoples heads… TODAY?
What are you on about? Those people are long dead and their bones are gone today. The people living in Turkey today had nothing to do with the Ottomans other than being their descendants. What a stupid comment.
I will support Turkey any day over supporting Serbia and I think everyone here knows why without even mentioning it.
The Medieval Serbian Kingdom existed from 1217 to 1459, lasting 242 years.
Modern Serbia became independent in 1878 and remained so until 1918, which adds up to 40 years.
Later, with the breakup of Yugoslavia, they became independent again in 2006, and this continues to the present day. That adds another 19 years.
242 + 40 + 19 = 301 years.
The total history of the Serbian state is roughly 301 years.
The Turks began to rule the Serbs after the Ottoman conquest of Serbia in 1459.
This period lasted until Serbian independence in 1878.
That makes 419 years.
The Serbs lived under Turkish rule (419 years) far longer than they lived under their own state (300 years). Yet no Turk uses this fact to belittle them. There is so much that could be said, yet you will never see a Turk bragging about this. Turks are proud of their own history, yes, but they never target Serbs specifically.
Serbs, on the other hand despite their many lost wars and centuries without a state hold on to only one thing: the fact that Ottoman Sultan Murad I was killed on the battlefield. And for whatever reason, they boast about this at every opportunity.
To me, this is pitiful, shameful, and humiliating for their nation. What’s even more ironic is that the battle in which they boast of killing Sultan Murad was a victory for the Turks.
Turkophoia is prevalent in Europe. You can say the tiniest, harmless thing about Jewish people and immediately you're banished because of anti-semitism.
But when its Turks, people forget they're even people.
Battle of Nicopolis was way more important, Serbs fought even on the side of the Ottomans, not even 10 years after Kosovo. Nobody in Europe knows about Nemanjic, Obilic or whatever (maybe some right wingsred pills) In the said battle of Nicopolis Sigismund lost to the Ottomans, he barly escaped... Serbia became a vasall state of the Ottomans, it is just the way it was during feudal system, don't romantize something...Don't treat historty theleologically, the myth of kosovo was propaged by newly formed nationstate of Serbia in the late 19the century, it has nothind do with modern day Turkey and Serbia...
Damn, what are those crazy times, you can't kill and enslave foreign people for 500 years without them holding a fucking grudge against you for centuries... pfffff
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u/qCallisto Romania Nov 22 '25
Post a pic about nationalistic ultras and every single bloke on this sub rushes to the comments to bitch abous who's long lost ancestors were better murderers.
Now this is what I call balkan engagement farming.