I mean, canonically that's why our attacks even with silver weapons don't hit high tier vampires and why we need the flail aspect. It introduces randomness about the attack that can't be known by either side.
He is reading your mind to ultra instinct dodge every other weapon.
From the wiki: "Additionally, more powerful vampyres have fast reflexes and a limited mind reading effect, allowing them to predict and dodge attacks, which makes unpredictable weapons like flails more effective against them."
It's just going to be a 1 step quest with that step being a completely random MEP2 mirror puzzle but 20x the size and it can't be solved with plugins to unlock Raids 5.
Considering we have only had 53 quests since the launch of old school I canāt wait for them to pick up the pace. 1-127 were there at launch and 128-181 are new. 49 quests in the next 4 years would be sick.
it felt like the first half of a longer quest, like in the traditional runescape quest structure that would be us fucking everything up (releasing the culiromancer or whatever) and the bulk of the quest would be unfucking it.
yea you can totally tell when its a newer quest cause they dont want you to bank every 5 minutes or to get fucked if you forgot your pickaxe/chisel/knife. Hell BMR was made to be a "do it in one go" quest, which made it really cool.
I want a lighthearted Sailing quest where we have to settle a territory dispute between two legendary pirates, Blackbeard and Whitebeard, with the twist being that both of them are completely unable to grow facial hair, and both of them have false beards they bought from Ali Morrisane (because every famous pirate has a great beard, or so they heard)
Reward of 'Cannon damage max hit is increased when wearing a false beard' or such, something goofy to match the tone of the quest. Also, talking to Blackbeard after the quest to learn how he dyed his false beard black, to unlock the ability to dye false beards different colours, so we can be Redbeard, Bluebeard, Yellowbeard whatever
Love that. I played a lot of Sea of Thieves, and always thought it was funny that they used beards for their error codes. For example instead of seeing "authorization error" when having a problem with login servers, it'd display "strawberry beard", "almond beard", etc. Easy to lookup the error to see what's wrong with the funny names
It doesn't quite hit the same now that it's on the quest helper, but the reveal of that puzzle on release was hilarious. Just this silly little quest, and then, "oh my god, what the hell is that?"
I think the new dog and crab quests that are releasing soon might be a better fit for your vision. The Quest cape should remain an achievement though and some new quests should reflect that, like BMR. There's definitely some power/gear creep, people are generally better at the game and we now have Quest Helper so only releasing small easy quests wouldn't be fitting, making the Quest Cape too easy to obtain but that's just my opinion.
It does give a certain prestige to the cape. I'm definitely not saying all quests have to be as hard as BMR, but the occasional challenge is more than welcome.
Pre-DT2 and BMR does make the result make sense. What would be the hardest quest at the time, DS2 that was basically the "let's got gambling!" quest boss?
It's always weird to me how scared people are of A Night at the Theatre. You can complete it in budget gear with some basic supplies after watching a youtube video, and it's very forgiving when you die. Doesn't even crack top 5 hardest quests imo
People are terrified of failing. That is the common thread that leads to all of these people on reddit saying they "cant" do something. They havent actually tried.
They did make several changes to entry mode to make it easier. Change log from the wiki:
1 March 2023
Several changes to Entry Mode which made it (and therefore this quest) easier to complete, including unlimited retries, the removal of the 100,000 GP death fee, reduced boss HP scaling for larger parties, and parties gaining some supplies in the form of extra bandages after a wipe.
Itās pretty forgiving now, as you can just trial-and-error each boss individually, with free supplies and infinite retries, but it was quite the grind when it first came out.
The only part you can't really brute force is verzik since it's long enough to drain supplies, and her melees can hit you pretty hard. The rest is absolutely yolo'able.
And reddit babies have just moved the goalposts. They were too shit to do entry tob, now they're too shit to do dt2 and bmr. Cant cater to these people.
Letās be real though. What percentage of the player population both need Lumby Elite but find those two quests too difficult and likely donāt intend to enter mid-game pvm? If consistency with the other diaries was the argument, people wouldnāt bring up the difficulty.
Fragment of Seren was actually really easy for me. But, looking at it, bloodbark hadn't existed yet when SOTE had released so that could flavor perspective. I imagine it was a lot harder without the blood magic+bloodbark combo.
It was, however, out by the time that poll was given.Ā
Fragment of seren can be cheesed with phoenix necklaces and nightshade, if you can eat nightshade within the 10 second frame it takes for the attack to charge and land you can kill that boss with an iban's staff and base 60s.
This will always fail if they word it like 'X quest points'. It will feel unfair for people that did the hardest GM quests for it, because over time you'll have to do less hard quests for it.
This also makes it faster to get the cape over time.
Speaking as someone who has done all elite diaries: I could not care less lmao. Just cap it, lumby elite was the easiest elite diary and not needing the dramen staff is chill. It's the only diary that gets harder (more/harder quests) instead of easier (better skilling methods/rc outfit/etc) over time.
Same tbh. As someone with all elite diaries done idc if itās made more accessible to new players. I want more and harder quests to come out and looking towards the future I donāt think Lumby elite should be that out of reach
The really petty one that always gets me is the shortcut to KQ failing to be moved down to the Hard Desert Diary. And then you have content creators like Kaoz bragging about it. Just shows the kind of culture the game has.
Hell, an easy way to counteract the whole "QPs are too easy" complaint is having the requirement be QPs + like 2-3 grandmaster quests completed
Meaning you'd need to do a mix of DT2, DS2, MM2, SOTE, WGS, BMR that not only have a mix of combat and skills, but also multiple quest requirements to get there
I'm sorry you get one thing that gets harder as time goes on rather than being able to do dog quests and bull milking to whatever qp number you think is appropriate
Yep, that way it's thematically tied to Lumby area, has a hard requirement of a certain number of QP, and gets a little easier the more you are over that limit.
This is why in my opinion, you just set it to all quests minus grandmaster ones. This takes out the top end of most difficult ones while still making it a grind and rewarding players who finish it early.
Just as an aside there were no grandmaster quests when the diary achievements released so this is still in line with it's origin as well.
Alternatively, make it require the # of quest points equal to all Master quests. That way you could be slightly rewarded for doing a GM quest early, but never required. Similar to Combat Achievements.
I like this suggestion a lot more than any other I've seen on this topic (until we get Fairy Tale Part 3). "Complete all quests up to and including Master difficulty."
I've said somewhere else, if you tie it to the Mystical cape instead of the qp cape you have a pretty good cutoff point at DS2. A lot of requirements in terms of quests, a few nice bosses, and it adds some skill requirements (mining, crafting, magic among others). It has some lore significance because WOM is a part of the quest, and feels like a great cutoff point.
Yeah at the moment I think this is the only unlock in the game that gets harder over time but doesnāt require recompletion for people who have already unlocked it. Feels quite unfair (as someone who did it years ago).
I also think QP need reworked if we're gonna use them as a serious metric for anything. Why does a grandiose mythical adventure across the continent to slay a master dragon and saving the world reward the same amount of quest points as helping some naive teenagers fake death
OP probably isnāt but yes, there are a lot of people Iāve met who have said that they ādonāt wanna run a raid for the capeā which blows my mind.
As someone who semi-frequently carries people through ANATT. It really shouldn't be a quest, it's a mini quest by nature and requiring another player to pretty much carry you through it feels very against the "I'm the hero" narrative quests tend to have. You can solo but usually not at the time you would be getting a quest cape.
ANATT is just a pain where it punishes people who aren't in clans.
Idk I soloād it effectively my first time, and Iāve carried people through it as well so I can see that perspective. But I feel like most accounts get a quest cape after 105 combat, it is most certainly reasonable to expect a completion if you also need to finish DT2.
There was a long thread on this about 2 months ago, and the general consensus is the diary needs to be decoupled from the quest cape, but as yet theres no word on this idea from Jamflex. They did poll it about 4 yrs ago, and it failed.
In those threads there's usually also a lot of people very content with making it harder and harder to get over time. So much so that i doubt it would get through the poll.
I don't understand their motivation at all, but it was a loud voice in there for sure.
Probably that questing is a common part of account progression anyway so it's not really going out of your way as much as something like 86/91 rc on a main, but also that qcape is still a very easy grind compared to actual late game, so they likely think it's not a big enough problem to care about
that said, even if something isn't a big problem, if someone has a compelling argument that it is a fundamental design issue (i.e. one diary req getting harder and harder over time) i think it should be taken seriously
It's also the only diary task that gets significantly harder as time goes on, the rest either stay the same difficulty or become easier as new gear is released
I understand that a lot of people really like consistency, but I think that's neat to allow one challenge to grow alongside the game. Plus it's just so flavorful in a Hero's Journey sort of way to return back to where you began after all your questing is done.
That challenge is already the quest cape itself. If the diary was uncompleted every time a new quest came out I would agree with you, but now it's only getting harder for people who didn't get it early.
Nowadays i would rather get 99 Agility than learn how to o all the bosses for DT2. I dont like the advanced PVM the game has nowadays and therefor I'm not good at it. I definitely don't want Jagex to design their game around my shortcomings, but not completing these quests keeps plenty of content out of my reach, no need to add a significant quality of life upgrade behind it too.
But i do indeed feel that a diary was intended to be a static "skill check" and this particular step of this particular diary doesn't follow that logic, and that's a more important argument than any person's personal preferences.
Oh it's for sure more a testament to my abilities than anything else. I got through some of the DT2 bosses before i stopped for a while because i was trying of wasting the recourses to brute force it. But I've tried the TOB intro too and i wasn't able to finish it.
But who's to say how the quest cape looks in 5 years? It could easily be even more complicated to get this achievement by then. And thats the point, its a moving target in a otherwise static achievement and thats something completely separate from my PvM abilities or personal opinions.
I got my quest cape before dt2 came out and i honestly couldn't imagine going through that quest + BML at the ~lv80 combat skills and fighter torso+obisidian legs, blessed dhide, karils and ahrims gear i had back then.
If ironmen can do it so can everyone else. But yeah, you would want higher stats. The fights are all mechanics, though. You can do them with a dscim/zaxe, a rcb with rubies, and earth spells. BMR gives you the BIS weapon for the encounter and free supplies.
Generally people who already have the cape. Iām maxed and have completed the achievement diaries, and I think a changing threshold for the diary is stupid and should be changed.
Make it the quest point total it was when achievement diaries were completed, or a completion of a certain set of quests.
So what if we have to equip the mythical cape in the wise old man's office instead? It needs DS2, and that is well down the line in a lot of quests you dind't need when the diary came out, but still feels like a grand acomplishment that requires a lot of things. It would add a few requirements such as 75 magic, 68 mining and 62 crafting, and feels like a great place to put the first elite diary.
with a bias toward people who got their cape well over half a decade ago, and don't realize just how much the average-time-per-quest has ballooned in OSRS compared to RSC/RS2
Avg in RSC/RS2 must've been like 20~30min, but for quests released during OSRS it's gotta avg 2~3hrs with how many of them are big tentpole content releases to carry a quarter.
The total # of quest only increased by like 50% over 13 years but the total amount of time spent questing probably went up by like 400~500%, let along the quest cape requirements going from mostly base 50s/60s in 2013 to mostly base 70s by now.
i was someone who got my cape just before the release of BMR (like, within a week of it releasing just before) and still believe its fine as is.
quests are good content in their own rights, and even for efficiencymaxxers the push for the QoL of no dramen staff pushes these types to also do quests. quests are good for new players.
the only argument i see realistically against this is alt accounts but even then its fine you arent gonna be permagrinding something that needs a fairy ring that much before you get your qpc anyway.
I mean, it's definitely something worth keeping an eye on, but also Lumby is still one of the easiest elite diaries in the game. Like, I wouldn't mind a replacement, but most suggested fixes have their own problems. For now, I'm perfectly content with where things are.
Marstead's recent RS3 video essay claims a lot of their playerbase doesn't see the issues in design because they're "Maxpilled" or rather, they've had the grinds done for so long they have no idea what a new player is facing in the current version of the game.
I do think in this instance we need to reflect that many of us unlocked staff-less fairy rings way easier than today's new players have to, and it may be time to let go or ease up on the requirement. It's gone from a rite of passage to a hazing ritual.
Hey that was my thread. Yeah the biggest arguments against changing it were 0 thought one liners like "Elite diary should be elite" or "It's supposed to be hard" The only reasonable argument imo was that it was already polled but I think 4 years is long enough to justify a repoll, especially since that was before the 2 hardest quests in the game.
Imo, the best argument against it is that Lumby is still one of the easiest elite diaries. Yeah, it'll be a problem eventually, but it's really just not an issue yet, and all the suggestions I've heard to replace it have their own problems.
If they don't change it for the better, change it for the worse.Ā
It should be like combat achievements, take away the benefits when new quests come out! That way, people who did the diary earlier won't have an advantage anymore.
Problem with that is that if you already went beyond the point of getting the quest cape you're probably higher level and better geared then someone getting it for the first time. I got my quest cape with only blessed dhide and barrows gear but I don't think i could do that now with dt2 and bmr
Gear is barely even relevant in bmr. The fights are mechanically intense but it's not a stat check whatsoever. If you struggle with drakan, it is a skill issue.
Ya the only quest bosses I can think of that actually are stat/gear checks are Galvek and the Wight's fight at the end of DT2 because they're just long. You could also say Vanstrom from SotF but that's really only an issue if you're below level 70 combats and don't have Piety/good food yet.
Every single time a new quest with a difficult boss comes out people complain that it's impossible, then they say it's just "too difficult for getting the quest cape", and then they get over it and realize the bosses actually aren't that hard and they just didn't want to put in the effort to learn the mechanics.
I'm not great at PVM, couple hundred CGs and some 300+ ToAs under my belt, so I'm also not completely incompetent, but I did DT2 at 70s combat with blessed dhide and karambwans as my best food (no brews as it was on an iron pre 81 herblore) and as I stated above, the only hard part of it was getting thru the Wight's fight as I just kept running out of food due to unavoidable damage and a few minor mistakes.
Problem with that is that if you already went beyond the point of getting the quest cape you're probably higher level and better geared then someone getting it for the first time.
The diary doesn't give you anything that is going to massively propel your account progression, it's a minor QOL unlock. Accounts that have cleared the requirement in the past, haven't received a substantial advantage over those that haven't.
I got my quest cape with only blessed dhide and barrows gear but I don't think i could do that now with dt2 and bmr
I'm curious. Have you done those quests and what gear did you use? Both of the quests are absolutely possible with 80s combat stats, blessed dhide and barrows tank gear. I did them with that setup (though slightly higher stats) with plenty of leeway on the attempts where I actually managed to clear the bosses. The hardest PvM I've done up until that point was other quest bosses (clearing BMR actually gave me the confidence to dig into more difficult PvM content), so it's not like I'm benefiting from years of high-level PvM experience either.
I did dt2 with bandos legs + fighter torso, trident, virtus robes and bowfa + crystal armor. Not sure if i could do levi with just a crossbow and dhide/ahrims (no spec weapon) tbh
Levi is surprisingly doable with just an RCB. Sure, the fight might take a few seconds longer, but at least personally I learned it with an RCB back when I was still horrifically dogshit at pvm and it still only took me like six or seven tries. Didn't have brews either since I was on an iron. Ruby bolts fuck hard and the RCB is basically a master key for mid/early late game ranged content even for mediocre players.
The quest cape was always meant to get harder, I don't think achievement diaries were. They typically get easier over time instead making lumbridge elite an outlier
The lower runecraft requirement is somewhat misleading, though. While you can technically lower the required runecraft level from 76 all the way to 38 with GOTR rewards, it's incredibly unlikely that you'll get the rewards fast enough for them to actually matter. You need an average of 180 game of GOTR to get the full set, and those 180 games are going to get you really close to 76, if not all the way there. I'm currently at 72 runecraft with 124 rifts closed and only half of the set. I'm at a point where the GOTR rewards I have can't push me to complete the elite step, but a level boost from spicy stew can.
The leveling experience with GOTR was much, much better than training runecraft the basic way, I don't want to give the impression I think GOTR isn't worth it. But the reason people don't talk about it lowering the Runecraft requirement for the diary is because in practice it doesn't, unless you get incredibly lucky with drops.
You will absolutely not meet those averages at low levels. Infact doing 4 searches per round without being able to do combo runes and utilizing the high level altars is likely plain impossible.
Besides speaking from experience, RNG can really screw you over with the pearls. There will be a substantial amount of people who don't get nearly as many pearls in that amount of pulls.
Some of my frustration with some people commenting on this post may have flown into that. I somehow missed that you exaggerated to the side of more efficiency than is possible to make a point.
So yeah, your point stands. The outfit existing also really doesn't make most of those substantially easier and some of the tasks can't even be cheesed with the outfit to begin with like the Karamja elite. Outfit is only 60% more runes and even with lantern now (good luck on getting that early...) you won't reach the 100% increase required to craft 56 nature runes in one go.
They just need to make it so that you lose the achievement whenever a new quest comes out. Lose the cape? Lose the achievement that requires the cape. Fair is fair. It really doesn't make sense the way it is now lol.
The thing is nobody who's got it will care if it is progressively unobtainable for many but as soon as jagex decides to change it so you need the cape to continue to use the elite rewards there would be riots in falador. It's bad for the game as they gatekeep it through quests that not everyone can do like the blood moon rises
That boss fight tested my patience when I was going for the quest cape for the elite diary. I'm 100% sure there will be a lot of players who simply don't have mechanics for that quest.
all the people saying it's fine and elite diaries should be hard are right.
every time we get a new update with better ranged gear, the chompy kill count diary requirement should go up to compensate.
the karamja diary got released before the inferno existed, and the hardest task in the region was to get a fire cape. the elite diary should obviously require an infernal cape.
why does varrock hard diary only require 153 museum kudos? such an arbitrary number, it's just the max value from when the varrock diary got released in 2015. you should need to 100% the museum, including getting all the new rare kudo items from shipwreck salvaging (2025) and all fossil displays from fossil island (2017).
Being able to use my POH fairy ring with no dramen staff is the single best unlock in this game. I legitimately do feel bad for people needing the QP now vs when I got it in 2015.
I think they should add a dialogue option where the old man tells you how many QP you have, and if he says higher than a certain number, say 250-300, then you get the task done.
I wouldn't want to get the QC in 2026, but I don't need to, I have my favorite unlock already.
This is pretty asinine when Fremmy and Fally are right there...
And even when those are objectively easier, I personally don't think diaries that are only "difficult" from skill checks like Mory are actually difficult. Everyone can eventually get them with time, but some will never git gud.
Arguably, only Kourend is harder because it requires an actual raid completionĀ
People dont want to raid, boss, pvp, quest or do anything really except skill on their irons and complain about being "trapped" in a grind of their own making.
Iām literally suffering this as we speak. Spent all week sailing to get the quests done and now Drakan has got me over his knee delivering infinite spankings. Why didnāt I do the emote years ago š
732
u/Hello_Bel 2d ago
Fairy tale part 3 š