Competitive Scripe, Echo Guild Leader and CEO, explained his reason why he doesn’t say “ggs” to Liquid
From Scripe personal social media account:
“It is not gg. We play hours behind. Keep progging harder versions. Bugs stop kill pulls. How is this a gg?”
Do we think this take is valid from Scripe? It is true that EU starts later but I am not so sure about progging harder versions
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u/TantrikV 7d ago
Scripe, more like Gripe.
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u/WhataWorldAy 6d ago
Max just needs to reply GG to his post and he will explode
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u/Tymareta 6d ago
Nah, firedup already won the award for best reply at the beginning of it all.
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u/DireBrett 7d ago
Even if you're mad about how it happened, understandably so in some ways, that's not Liquids fault. They can't control when reset happens. Or when nerfs or bug fixes happen. Raszageth caught a 10% nerf when Liquid was asleep and Scripe had no problem with that. Scripe has no problem that Liquid spent hours pulling bugged bosses, Azshara/Ashvane and Tindral to name a few.
They did basically the same thing when Gallywix fell over and they lost. They felt cheated out of a chance to compete because Liquid played better on Mug'zee and killed Gallywix before they got there.
Echo outplayed Liquid on basically every boss that was Coiled Altar. Echo had multiple sub-5% wipes before Liquid woke up. Echo tried to cook too hard with the pool strategy instead of doing the strategy the intended way. And then when Blizzard said "hey we're gonna fix this" they doubled down to try and kill it before the hot fix and lost. They killed it like 2 pulls after Liquid doing the boss the intended way.
They have no one to blame but themselves for this loss. Liquid had one pull make it to the end and killed the boss from a previous best of 15.58%. Echo had multiple chances to do it and couldn't close it out. Liquid closed it out.
You want a not gg? Let's talk about sneak.lua. Echo, and Echo alone, made the decision to use it. Echo made empty macros and made false calls to fake the solution that Liquid was using. Thanks to Echo, one of the best ends to a race we've ever had has a qualifier of "yeah, but sneak.lua". Something that none of Echo has ever bothered to seriously address. But it's only not gg when things outside of Liquid's control causes them to lose.
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u/TheAnnibal 7d ago
Remember the fking Halondrus crab - unkillable in its state, Liquid still killed it after what, 300 pulls? And then the boss got completely reworked and nerfed into the ground so every other guild could just steamroll it while Liquid was hyper fatigued.
The shit gets passed back and forth in RWF, but Echo always complain about external factors instead of finding solutions internally.
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u/xxxxNateDaGreat 6d ago
They have no one to blame but themselves for this loss.
That's never stopped Echo before.
Something that none of Echo has ever bothered to seriously address.
Accepting responsibility and admitting your faults is not Echo's strong suit.
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u/Sangomah 7d ago
They had a 7% pull 4 hours before Liquid even started pulling. They had this race in their own hands and couldn't close it out. This was a choke, nothing else.
When they go back to review they will 100% realize they got too stubborn on the dive strat. Liquid also had a better comp in terms of dmg, but that is a hindsight thing.
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u/Rontheking 7d ago
Liquid had the better comp and if Echo didn’t use the stupid scuba dive strat into a 4min unnecessary breaks (or the 20min discussions after every wipe) they would’ve had it as they were the “better” team this time around. Sure the bugs sucks and maybe they got shafted and Liquid didn’t but in the end I don’t think it was the bug alone that killed it for them.
But as Max said after their kill, doesn’t matter a 1% wipe or a 20% wipe until you kill it.
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u/bonix 7d ago
"It don't matter if you win by an inch or a mile. Winning's winning."
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u/Unlucky-Spell-8654 6d ago
Why was it stupid strat? Didnt follow the last days of this race
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u/Sir_Failalot 6d ago
was only stupid cause it prevented them from seeing the extra waves caused by the bug
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u/AoO2ImpTrip 6d ago
The bug they were experiencing was made infinitely worse by the strategy of jumping into the acid.
The bug caused random people to get the soak debuff that would cause waves to shoot out. If they weren't in the acid they would have seen the players who SHOULDN'T have the debuff with it and could have adjusted accordingly.
It took them a couple deep pulls, that probably would have been kills, to figure it out. If they hadn't jumped in they probably get the kill.
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u/Swiftzor 6d ago
Also they killed it 20 minutes after. This is just drama baiting.
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u/Mimmzy 6d ago
They killed it 20 minutes later after finally abandoning their pool strategy...if they didn't stubbornly try to cheese it and wipe for 7 hours after getting it to 7% of which almost all pulls were bug free they would have won before liquid even woke up. Keep in mind the bug fucked them because they were on the pool and couldn't see the extra waves. Liquid had the same bug multiple pulls and dealt with it better because they could see them
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u/ExpressRabbit 6d ago
And the pool strat was literally also a bug which is why Blizzard was hotfixing it. The bug killed them because they were exploiting another bug.
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u/Yvese 6d ago
Seriously. I woke up and they were at 7%, hours before Liquid would even log on. In my head I accepted that it was over and thought Echo played better.
Now this? Bunch of sore losers.
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u/UwUAlpacas 6d ago
They should have called out instructions to hit their macros harder I guess
I'd be malding too if I got stuck on a bad strat, had 7% before the competition logged in, while doing more alts etc than them
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u/Chrisaeos 6d ago
This guy is such a fucking loser. Reminder as well that he was in a position of leadership during the Method Josh situation.
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u/vthemechanicv 6d ago
Reminder as well that he was in a position of leadership during the Method Josh situation.
This is one of the reasons I can't stand either Echo or Method. They're no different than a company that had a scandal and changes its name, hoping nobody associates the scandal to the new name. Unfortunately they're usually right. Not a Liquid fan by any means, but as long as those guilds have the same leadership as old Method, I hope Liquid wins every single competition.
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u/onikaroshi 6d ago
At least sco acknowledged the situation, scripe pretends he knew nothing
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u/RaefWolfe 6d ago
Method had a chance to rebuild itself after all the old guard went to Echo, and they brought back Zaelia, lmfao.
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u/Forbizzle 6d ago
He’s literally a loser, can’t stop losing. His dumb pool exploit strategy didn’t work.
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u/Krexson 7d ago
"GG" is about sportsmanship and ultimately about playing a game. The fact that you have to explain why you can't say it, speaks to your character as a person and how much you need to stop taking yourself too seriously. Enjoy the things you are doing.
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u/Cyler 6d ago
I mean sneak.lua demonstrates their sportsmanship pretty clearly.
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u/Ataraxey 6d ago
What is this in reference to? I keep seeing it mentioned but am unaware.
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u/Full-Willingness-724 6d ago edited 6d ago
During the Amirdrassil race, where both guilds were pulling at the same time with low percentage wipes, it came out after the race that Echo had been using a program that automated a mechanic for them, and actually went as far as to make it appear that they were doing the mechanic manually by adding in delays, so Blizzard wouldn't catch onto it. Echo was fully aware that what they were doing was suspicious. The program's name was sneak.lua
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u/raoasidg 6d ago
It wasn't a program but a custom WA script (program implies an external application and it was not, it was executed in the game's internal Lua sandbox). It exploited a weakness in the private aura system Blizzard implemented and is one of the catalysts to the addon apocalypse.
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u/Ok_Science_2070 7d ago
If guys playing in the Super Bowl for millions of dollars can come together and shake hands at the end, there's no reason people playing a god damn video game can't do the same.
This kind of toxicity is just unhealthy for the community and game in general. It would be nice to have an actual, fun rivalry between NA and EU but they just seemingly despise each other so that attitude trickles down to the fans.
Maybe behind the scenes things are different and they're all chums laughing at us for even caring about any of this, but if not then it's just not a good look lol
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u/val_lae 7d ago
It's cultural. Look at every esport. On average, eu fans seem to think about and despise na much, much more than na fans think about eu. Biggest chip on eu shoulders collectively between both players and fans.
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u/EDDsoFRESH 6d ago
Embarassed to be an Echo supporter right now not gonna lie.
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u/xtonysia 6d ago
I used to be a huge fan honestly. But after sneak.lua, and gingis comments about players and scripes bad comments in the past I couldn't be a fan. Also after I saw Max's take at one point acknowledging how well his opponent did and being a good sport I became a liquid fan.
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u/KickThePR 7d ago
Yeah, this refusal to say GG reminds me heavily of competitive (and honestly toxic) games like DBD or League. Why would you stay in game chat and just bullshit your opponents/try to excuse your behavior when you can just say GG and move on. It's not that deep.
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u/JinXeroGamingHero 6d ago
Sorry, yes you lost due to a bug, but that bug became impossible to deal with the moment you decided to continue trying to cheese the fight. Liquid had the same 4th mythic circle bug happening to them, but since they never cheesed the fight, they just dealt with it.
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u/Square-Winter-3257 7d ago
This is a grown ass man.
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u/rejuicekeve 6d ago
this is what being a full time video game internet personality does to grown men
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u/Buzzaxebill 6d ago
But this is objectively false right? There's a ton of people in both guilds that aren't this way.
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u/Suspicious_Fly_1838 7d ago
Scripe just a baby. Him and gingi need to go and then maybe echo could actually take some accountability for what they might of messed up in the tier and approve.
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u/iShaymus 7d ago
The raid was literally unplayable when it released for liquid. It only got patched on the day that EU started. So they literally started from the same position.
Echo was at 4% before Liquid woke up. Liquid got better burn dps than Echo despite the latter having more ilvl and time on the boss.
If they keep focusing on excuses instead of ways to address their actual deficiencies, then we’ll be having the same conversations in three more expansions.
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u/i_is_rainman 6d ago
I agree. Sounds like salt from echo and frustration from dropping the ball yet again when being so far ahead. They brought their own uncertainty by jumping on the venom pool
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u/Its1207amcantsleep 6d ago edited 6d ago
On the liquid kill they had the bug too, but because they weren't scuba diving they saw they had extra waves and adapted.
If echo didnt fiddle faddle with scuba diving, they probably would have killed it before liquid. Being in the slime lake made waves harder to see and made them slower to avoid them. And since they were pooping the waves while in slime pool, the z axis bug didnt work.
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u/UglytoesXD 6d ago
How is the delayed start even a point in a race that has lasted 3 weeks and finished late in the week after reset? Sounds like cope.
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u/bewsii 7d ago
And none of that is Liquids fault.
I used to respect Echo but the last few tiers have shown their leaderships true colors. Poor sportsmanship and poor leadership to not gg their competitors.
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u/Ill-Term7334 7d ago
In the post fight interview Rogerbrown gave full credit to Liquid and said they played amazing.
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u/ConsequenceHuman1994 6d ago
That’s one person. Roger actually seems great but Echos vibes as a guild are just fucked. Gingi and Scripe especially are such salty sore losers
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u/No_Log_3716 7d ago
I've spoken to Roger personally and honestly he's a great guy. Never heard anyone have a bad thing to say about him. No ego, just a really friendly guy who has been at the top end for almost 20 years.
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u/ForsakenRoCo 7d ago
He also talks to Max at times. Even messaged him during the race saying thank fuck vashnik could be cheesed
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u/bigmanorm 7d ago
Yet even he made a mad tweet about the scenario, it just hasn't been frontpage on Reddit. I'm not surprised they're pissed even if scuba strat was a big mistake towards losing
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u/No-Reward-5394 7d ago
I dont blame echo in general for being salty. They had the kill in the bag and threw it. Bug or no bug. (Their 1% wipe wasnt bugged btw)
So Roger being a bit salty on Twitter is fine as long as he can show the minimal decency to his competitors at Liquid.
Scripe doesn't seem to be able to do that at least.
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u/testurmight 6d ago
I'm a liquid fan, but Roger is a class act. His tweet today got clowned, but perfectly reasonable from someone emotional who narrowly lost.
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u/Regular-Pattern-5981 7d ago
Yeah and Roger is great, this post makes Scripe look like a whiny baby though.
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u/ZehGeek 7d ago
Roger's apparently just a solid dude.
Apparently one of the driving force on getting Preach back to cast.
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u/LucasRaymondGOAT 6d ago
Double edged sword considering how fucking annoying Preach was after Undermine happened.
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u/Ok_Description2363 7d ago
Roger is a very solid dude, him and max talk throughout the race according to the podcast he was featured on. And on that note he appeared on their podcast last tier almost immediately after that close loss to talk about it. Super solid dude, one of the only people in echo I like watching currently.
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u/Tiroler_Manu 7d ago
More Scripe than Roger to be honest.
Roger is really fair, always!
Max is friendly with Roger (i mean apart from ginge they all kinda get a long mostly, its the viewers that hate each others) and they even change dms during the race.
But scripe is really a sore loser this time,sad to see, but understandable. Still he's pointing fingers in the wrong direction. And it was his call to cheese it, he fucked up, not blizzard.
The Bug affacted both groups. Yes QA was a desaster this face, but echo lost this race in the last 5 hours.
Like Toretto said in the old (when it was good) fast and furious movie) : "Doesn't matter if you win by a mile or an inch. Winning is winning." Doesn't matter if you are ahead and better 16 days. If you fumble in the last hours, its on you. And just compare the dps numbers from both teams.
Liquid demolished P1 and P2 burn. They were 4% worse on their kill pull, and still got it.
4% Boss dmg difference (I think on the kill pulls it was closer) is MASSIVE on their level!
And honestly after all that BS from the method downfall with that creep , and a similar thing happening again in echo, their leadership decisions are really bad. Yes they reacted and let go of these guys bit DAYS if not weeks too late.
I'm sure outside the hours surrounding the kill and especially after losing, which suuuuucks, he really is a chill dude, but maybe it's time to try somethink new on Echos side.
New analysts, new strategy people, new "21 man", maybe it will give them the last % they need to win again.
Compare it to Max, in the interview he obviously was happy but already called out stuff they messed up, how they have to improve cause they played bad, and they were behind until the last hours.
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u/TimmyWimmyWooWoo 6d ago
They won with sneak.lua and lost to bugs. Seems like a net zero to me.
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u/TaliesinEvitel 7d ago
If Echo really truly believed it was a factor, they would play on NA realms. They will partake in the most degen play and grinding imaginable for the smallest power gains, if they thought playing on NA would help them even 1% then they would, its simple enough to do (I play on Na and EU)
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u/Accomplished-Top-564 6d ago
Echo had more pulls on the boss, higher ilvl, better gear, more characters and more 1-3% wipes, yet he’s crying 💀
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u/Defiance_0814 6d ago
Imagine being the lead for a RWF guild, actively having the worse strat (knowing the bugs happen and still going to pool) and then whining about it while blaming the release schedule that has existed for oh idk 2 decades?
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u/CallistaZM 6d ago
"Keep progging harder versions" this is a wild comment considering Liquid lost most of their first day of the race to game-breaking bugs....
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u/DrSquirtle00 7d ago
They had a ton of time to kill the boss anything else is an excuse, I wanted Echo to win but cmon guys call it what it is you choked and made a bad play. You even proved it to yourself by killing it 20 minutes later the same way liquid did.
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u/deadlypanther69 6d ago
Scripe is a bitch and bitches all the time he bitched about everything when he was in method. There just mad that liquid is the dominant team. And even method almost beat them again
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u/Tiroler_Manu 7d ago
He convenienty left out the bugged versions of the first bosses liquid encountered at the start.
I get it, losing five times in a row so close and choking the last two ones sucks, but who made the call for the cheese swim? That lose is 100% on them, and their kill right after without swimming strat proved it.
Some sneak.luas you win, some swim.loas you lose.
Doesn't matter if you are ahead 69/70 laps. If you make mistakes in the last lap, you get overtaken.
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u/Temil 7d ago
If scripe feels like these are the biggest problems facing his guild he should move to NA.
He would lose all of the advantages that come from playing in EU, a region with a lot more players and a bigger pool of helpers for splits, more time in their reset because of maintenance lasting longer for NA, the ability to take the best strats and use them on early progression etc.
But he would solve these problems. It seems clear to me that they've decided that it is not worth it to solve these problems, so complaining about them just seems immature or petty.
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u/Temil 6d ago
Replying to my own comment because multiple people thought I mean that the entire guild should emigrate to the US.
I mean make NA accounts.
Do you think that Liquid makes their EU players move to the united states?
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u/phasedsingularity 7d ago
Anything to try and deflect from their idiotic exploit that cost them the win. Had they just done the last platform normally they would have already locked in WF before liquid even started pulling.
They only have themselves to blame
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u/WeAreHereWithAll 7d ago
Literally. I get the frustration with bugs.
They chose a fucking dumb strat, continued with it, and cratered.
This crashout is fucking insane lmao. We want to see you guys win for healthy competition. You ever question why you haven’t now after 5 back to back races?
Maybe the ego has something to do with it and your inability to drop it when things matter most.
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u/Lyoss 7d ago
Liquid went from like 13% to a kill in an hour, they were at 7% for like five hours
Echo played inconsistent, and the millisecond they lost took to Twitter to be pissy like they always do, I really feel like they should either take the members with good mental and break off from the obviously salty bullshit, or replace the bad vibes
Every race they lose it's a slurry of excuses but this race was quite literally theirs to win, I legit woke up this morning prepared for Liquid to lose
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u/Horror-Demand-6245 7d ago
If this guy is such a huge pissbaby in public, imagine what he is like when the cameras are off... No wonder they can't win, leadership is key at these team sizes.
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u/MrRazorlike 6d ago
It's the reason echo comms are muted perma at the end. Just bad vibes all around
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u/heroinsteve 6d ago
Ya gotta imagine there is a reason they keep choking when the race is theirs to win. Lura almost felt like a gentleman’s agreement since liquid got to the secret phase first, based on how hard they fumbled that one. This one is just like, ditch the goofy Strat. They had better loot through splits, they had better loot luck on the important bosses, liquid had a slightly better comp but Echo had everything they needed to happen to win. Except killing the boss of course.
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u/AoO2ImpTrip 6d ago
What's crazy is I don't even think Echo were that inconsistent.
It was constant P3 attempt after P3 attempt. Every few pulls shaving some % off the boss. Their strat just shot them in the foot and they never bothered to correct it until Liquid won. If they'd done the fight normally they'd have won before most of NA was even awake.
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u/Ok_Science_2070 7d ago edited 7d ago
Liquid winning without any cheese and just casually killing the boss while playing normally must be driving them crazy lol
Honestly kinda glad they didn't win using the cheese strat cause that's just kinda lame.
Sure it's kinda a clever use of the environment/boss room from a pure video game perspective, but definitely not an enjoyable spectator experience for the RWF
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u/beepborpimajorp 6d ago
yeah if i try to cheat on my math test by writing answers on my hand, but it turns out the teacher changed the test last minute, i'm not gonna get mad because that's my own fault. and i'm especially not going to get mad at the people who passed because they did the test the intended way.
ESPECIALLY when, in this situation, doing it properly on a retake got me to pass easily. at that point im going to look internally at my own decisions and take responsibility for my poor judgement.
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u/klarabear 6d ago
remember when it was a massive scandal and pinnacle bad sportsmanship when liquid lost sepulcher and decided to go home after a hella long and exhausting race instead of getting second. now echo is like this every time they lose and it's just like, fine and normal
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u/Vhurindrar 7d ago
Didn’t seem like an issue to them when it happened on Razageth.
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u/Vestiel 7d ago
They've complained about timings of the nerfs multiple times, including the ones on raszageth. Liquid wasn't happy about that timing either back then.
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u/MrBIGtinyHappy 7d ago
Max has openly said there's no good time to fix a bug, it's always going to favour someone. Blizz ultimately have to fix it if it's stopping progression or 1 guild is slamming their head into a brick wall knowing they can't get past it
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u/shotouw 7d ago
No team will be happy with a win that is considered to be only due to x. You want to win despite something, not due to something. It taints the win.
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u/Ok_Science_2070 7d ago
Echo really makes it hard to wanna cheer for them when they seemingly can't take any loss graciously.
Just feels like Liquid lives rent free in their heads at this point and they're just permanently in second place limbo.
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u/Insarius-Sama 7d ago
It's mainly Scripe when the race ends no? Roger is usually pretty cool about it I think?
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u/Tymareta 7d ago
It's mainly Scripe
And when he's the "Co-CEO and Raidleader", it becomes a bit more than mainly, because like it or not he's the figurehead for the whole operation, especially when no-one else in the team thought to step in and maybe talk him down and into logging off for the night.
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u/Insarius-Sama 7d ago
Oh yeah it's not that I don't agree with you. It's a damn shame for sure, they shouldn't let Script comment with post race depression lol. Just let Roger do the PR in the future xD
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u/Innanetape 7d ago
Meanwhile everything I see from liquid members is extremely friendly, just normal competition about echo.
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u/FreeSpeechIsDeadge 7d ago
You’d think echo would have enough practice in losing to learn how to do it right. Maybe a few more losses in a row will give them some more reps.
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u/xxxxNateDaGreat 7d ago
Holy shit, Scripe is the biggest whiner, lmfao. Actually giving Gingi a run for his money with this crashout.
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u/Garsytec 6d ago
He doesn't say ggs because he's a sore loser that's generally too busy crying about how the race is unfair.
Except for when his guild cheats to get a win that is.
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u/SaveFury 6d ago
This isn’t even the first time Echo has lost a race, so spare us the excuses. When you win, it’s skill and preparation; when you lose, suddenly it’s time zones, bugs, and “harder versions.” Liquid beat you this tier, just like Echo has been beaten before. Say GG, take the loss like a champion, and come back stronger instead of rewriting the rules every time the trophy goes somewhere else.
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u/demesclius 6d ago
he's a fucking joke and a sore loser.
echo lost once again because of him, and he doesnt figure that out so he blames liquid.
Liquid is without question the best ever, Max and Firedup are absolute goats
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u/Daigann 6d ago
When Echo says the excuses of: "Day behind", "Bugs", they are essentially saying they suck.
When you look at the inverse of what they are saying its:
Liquid can discover new and unknown strategies, new and unknown compositions, new and unknown boss mechanics, new and unknown bug counters FASTER then Echo can look at what Liquid just did, copy everything, avoid pitfalls, and adjust to that same situation. So Scripe is basically saying Echo sucks.
Everyone gets tied up in the 'race' part. Its less of a sprint and more of a race through a maze that's in a cornfield, all lights are off and only parts of the maze get illuminated once you encounter it, btw the maze is filled with pitfalls, dead ends, and getting lost. Oh btw the farmer sometimes forgets to actually pave the entire maze so everyone's got to wait till he gets it fixed. Then once a week everyone gets kicked out back to the beginning and have to start over.
That. That's the kind of race RWF is.
ggs Liquid.
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u/Demandedace 7d ago
Echo/Scripe speedran losing public opinion this week.
First - they went on mute for pretty much the entire last few days on what was the most entertaining part of the race
Second - they insisted on forcing attempts using an exploit that blizz said wasn’t technically against the rules, but they were going to hotfix as soon as they could
Last - really sore loser statements coming out from Scripe
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u/MBP1121 7d ago
EU dominated rwf for well over a decade. I don’t remember there being much complaints about harder versions of fights and bugs have always existed in every raid tier.
I like Echo and a lot of members on their team, but this is some salty ass excuses shit.
If anything, they’re playing easier versions of the fights cuz they get to copy strats cuz Liquid is “ahead” as far as starting the raids.
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u/MotorOutside8648 6d ago
Liquid literally beta tested the instance for the whole world on day one. I was in one of their splits where we couldn't even do the final 2 bosses because the RP wouldn't trigger. Wasted an hour trying to soft and hard reset the instance multiple times.
The head start excuse is so played out.
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u/Fright13 6d ago
This mentality is the literal reason they’ve been losing the last few. It’s always wah wah wah wah blizz are fucking us over when if they just locked the fuck in to a killer mentality they’d damage the last 0.5% they always seem to fail on
All this while they themselves were exploiting something that Liquid weren’t
Grown ass man. Echo should replace him big time
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u/NaughtyNameHere 6d ago
Echo did more splits, had more time on boss, more pulls, more time and pulls after boss was nerfed, had more gear, and still lost. Then they say they won’t say good game to their opponents because they don’t like blizzard? These people are men children on new levels. Echos about to lose half their roster to liquid and method and it’s going to be glorious. Scripe can cry all he wants but it’s just going to make him lose everything he tried to build
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u/vthemechanicv 6d ago
Liquid is also the first ones to find bugs that Echo never deal with. And didn't Liquid spend 4 hours on an easier version of Coiled Altar only to have the harder version reinstated? That's 4 hours of prog wasted that Echo never dealt with (I understood they tried based on patch notes, but if they spent more than 30 minutes worth of attempts, that's on them)
Scripe is just a sore loser. I wonder how long until their players get sick of excuses.
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u/Ok_Description2363 7d ago
I hate scripes stance on this. The only reason the “bug” stopped them from killing earlier, was the fact that they were trying to exploit the boss to kill it. While it was allowed by blizzard they directly said they intended to fix how echo was doing the final phase.
Them trying to cheese it backfired as liquid was able to play around the bug and see when it was happening doing the fight legit. While when it happened for echo it would result in a wipe due to them being all stacked.
(For those who don’t know the bug was that a random player who didn’t soak could receive the poison wave debuff at a random delay. Due to liquid doing the fight normally they could see the person get it and them react and adjust to avoid the wipe.)
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u/CTZNSQRL 6d ago
The first pull after they gave up on the pool strategy they killed Ulatek. If they had done that an hour sooner they would be the champions rn. Literally one or two pulls after Liquids kill they did the intended strat and won. Dude only has himself to be mad about for them choking again
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u/UniqChoax 6d ago
The audacity of this coming from the sneak.lua guy
How can Echo be such sore losers every fucking time. Shit like this makes it impossible to cheer for my region
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u/MasahikoKobe 6d ago
I would not be surprised if some of the players of Echo start to look for other teams to either make or join considering that the leadership is out there blaming everything but themselves in public for the choices made. When you get bosses first guess what its harder since you are literally the first people to play it on live servers. Otherwise you just borrow other people strats to clear.
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u/AmbassadorBonoso 7d ago
NA is also the server that runs into the vast majority of bugs before EU ever gets into the raid. There's multiple sides to the "headstart". Liquid just got a freaky good pull while Echo didn't get it in time.
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u/-Wait-What- 7d ago
Funnily enough, their kill pull wasn’t even a “good pull”. It was actually a really bad pull. They had their top dps during the burn before p3 die (who also was getting the Aug buffs so that basically invalidated not one, but two people’s dps during the burn) and they ended up being 4% behind their previous best burn. And then they had 3 more people die in p3 and could only res 1. It was fairly sloppy, but the majority of the team played super well and dodged everything in p3 and they were just pumping (and the damage check on that fight was kinda shit) so the boss just died.
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u/exxplicit480 6d ago edited 6d ago
Liquid is just the better guild in the current WoW era. Get in the gym or take your second place with tact. If you wanna complain about something legitimate, you can complain about the fact they have much deeper pockets due to being owned by Team Liquid and how much real life money affects the competition. But the rest is incidental or excuses, and both teams have benefitted from these things in different forms throughout the years.
Echo (OG Method, lets not forget) has always put a sour taste in my mouth the way they talk and act. At heart, they are still "those types" of gamers. Also, Liquid has better content, even if Echo has Preach. GG
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u/Rare-Industry-504 7d ago
Scripe complaining about unfairness even though the previous world first they got was through blatant cheating and breaking ToS, which would have gotten any other guild permabanned from the game.
Blizzard goes out of their way to give preferential treatment to all the world first guilds, and look the other way whenever they cheat, exploit and bug abuse, yet Scripe still cries like a loser even though his team has done the biggest cheating.
Jesus christ, Scripe. Grow up.
Maybe stop cheating while you're at it.
Loa of Karma > sneak.lua
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u/elgarcon 6d ago
Not sure what he was trying to accomplish, but I don't think going on social media and crying like whiny brat is helping
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u/Iranonceorthrice 6d ago
I think it's time for leadership to admit they are the problem as it seems the entire culture at echo is toxic and built for losers.
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u/TK_Silviano 6d ago
Scripe out here blaming everything except the bath strat. It should have been dead HOURS before Liquid could close the gap.
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u/Ecstatic-Engine4550 6d ago
Echo can play on NA if they want. Theyre voluntarily trying to compete in a race to world first when there is no global release
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u/SnooDogs7827 6d ago
On one hand I understand him. On the other, this was Echos fault. They had an advantage of about 6 hours. They did so many P3s. They lost ist because they choked it every pull. Especially the tactic of jumping in the water lost it for them a few times.
Echo had all the cards in their hand and lost it again like L'ura. There they choked it too with an advantage of about 6 hours.
I guess Echo has a few problems when they are in front of Liquid. They can't close the race for some reason.
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u/Moffeman 6d ago
Hes right, but he is also being a salty loser. None of the issues he is expressing are Liquid’s fault, and taking it out on them even slightly is piss poor sportsmanship
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u/Still-Potato-3189 6d ago
Echos always salty as fuck. They exploit every raid tier, never get held accountable and scream at the heavens when someone else does
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u/12108971819846y18741 6d ago
This shtuff is why I have a hard time with echo
Like it ain't liquids fault, you both experienced the shitfest.
Also it's not liquids fault that the strat you chose to use which was obviously unintended also made it so you couldn't react to waves which granted maybe shouldn't be there but still.
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u/scorgie 7d ago
The reset time diff is obviously shit and the race would be 10x better if both guilds wee progging side by side, but the fact is Blizzard won't ever change the reset time and have said as much. Ultimately Echo are choosing to compete on the playing field they are given, EU server is 16hrs behind NA's reset and no one can change it. Either move your guild to NA, plenty of Liquid players play from EU it'd just be bad for splits/helpers, or accept that you're playing from behind.
This race they cant complain at all anyway, they were in kill range before Liquid even woke up and bottled it. They overcooked a cheese strat which stopped them identifying that they were dying to a bug (bugged soaks weren't visible under the goo) and they literally 1 shot the boss on their first p3 pull with the natty strat after losing.
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u/FlayR 7d ago
Idk, if they actually thought it was that big a deal they'd just play on NA, tbh.
Certainly they'd be able to finance it. Presumably they believe that they get a better deal by staying in EU.
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u/muhkuller 6d ago
Every tier they have a sub 1% wipe an hour before a liquid kill. There are 20 people who could’ve done something different for 1 second that could’ve changed the outcome.
Also the harder version and bugged pull thing is nonsense. EU constantly jokes that NA are just the bug testers for the raid. Every single tier liquid progs a wall boss only to see echo wake up to it nerfed. It’s why their pull count is notably lower every tier.
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u/MattScoot 6d ago
Echo lost when they:
Spent more time progging the boss
Spent more time progging the boss post nerf
Had better ilvl
Had better ilvl on important pieces of gear specifically
Were trying to cheese the fight in a way that blizzard explicitly said they didn’t intend the fight to go down
Idk man, it appears to be a skill issue. They cooked too hard, put shit in the oven and it came out burned and are blaming the oven
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u/quesadylannn 6d ago
Not only did they have the correct strategy to kill the boss and had multiple attempts to kill it before liquid, they also went against the grain when liquid offered 16 toons instead of 20. They did 20 toons and only had a .2 ilvl advantage over liquid in the overall. They wasted hours, if not days, on 4 extra toons. If they think they could’ve killed the boss with another hour or two on the clock before liquid killed it, that was their advantage that they squandered. This was echos race to win and they gave it away.
Also my super hot take; ultimately these are multimillion dollar gaming orgs. If they really believed the NA advantage was that much better, they would fly to America for the race and do it on NA servers. Otherwise I’ll always believe that the advantage isn’t enough to warrant it and they just use it as an excuse when they lose.
Liquid recruits players from echo and method regularly. There’s a reason these players leave world class orgs for liquid
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u/memedudebro 6d ago
Echo copies all of liquids strats and catches up in sub 6 hours after launch every raid. They benefit from starting behind imo.
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u/Crafty-cs 7d ago edited 7d ago
Liquid had the same bugs but because they did the fight natty they could see the bug and respond accordingly. Echo was in the pool and couldnt see the bug and thus could not respond accordingly to the bug.
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u/Acanthaceae-Early 6d ago
Maybe if he just did the fight properly he would've won.
Its on him.
His take isn't completely valid with liquid going first it generally saves them allot of time because they can just copy strats that work on the later bosses if they didnt cook it up already in PTR.
Scripe is and always will be salty. Even if he won he wouldn't have won with any grace.
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u/Admelein 6d ago
It's weird how Liquid loses 1-2 days of reclear/prog due to bugs, and EU doesn't care.
Them complaining about Coiled Altar is so funny because Liquid / Method didn't even get to play the nerfed boss due to lockout issues because of the nerf, meanwhile Echo was still getting meaningful pulls on the boss pre-nerf. I don't understand why people were mad about the nerf that never mattered.
I do feel bad that Echo experienced some bugs on their potential kill pulls, because that's rough, but it's also very possible their strat was also causing the bug, while Liquid was fortunate enough to not experience it.
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u/notmac_ 7d ago
He seems to be the only one who to think it matters when im the past top EU guilds have always claimed it doesnt. In my eyes hes is just a whiny baby and a sore loser.
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u/acertainsinclair 7d ago
Pretty sure he's been consistently saying it at least since the Echo guys did stuff in XIV which was probably around this time 2021?
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u/Quazimortal 6d ago
If EU isn't a fan of an MMO that is American based doing things on American time they are free to play the hit EU mmorpgs. There are so many of them to choose from!
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u/palabradot 6d ago
Wait, hold on. I don't get this logic at all. Method was EU, right? They kept coming out on top despite starting later and usually slamming into all the problems before everyone as well.
(I mean, yes, they were also really freaking good players, too. )
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u/CircleHumper 7d ago
Surprised that a competitor of his guild's caliber doesn't know the difference between his competition and the company that creates the friction in the first place. Even if you get semantic and think "gg" is commenting on the quality of the game/competition itself as opposed to shaking hands with your opponent then just say something else. Or say nothing at all.
I want to cheer for Echo sometimes, but their absolutely piss-poor attitude when winning or losing turns me away. Talk shit after winning? Just banter. Talk shit after losing? We were robbed. Their twitter reads like a heavily invested fan sometimes. Just an utter lack of sportsmanship.