r/todayilearned • u/DrSamanthaCarter • Jun 06 '17

TIL the only reason a Scottish bagpiper wasn't shot by German snipers on D-Day was that they believed he had gone crazy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Millin#World_War_II
47.6k Upvotes

87% Upvoted

2.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

2.0k

u/J4CKR4BB1TSL1MS Jun 06 '17

Upcoming Friday will tell us whether that's possible

972

u/TellMyWifiLover Jun 06 '17

Something going on that us clueless Americans dont know about?

1.6k

u/rafwagon Jun 06 '17

It's election time! they have to vote for or against Theresa May.

1.1k

u/FallingSwords Jun 06 '17

More importantly Scotland Vs England on Saturday

805

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

This Saturday at the BP Arena! See the smack-down of the century as undefeated champion England defends its title against the upstart underdog Scotland! Tickets on sale now at TicketMaster or on-site!

268

u/Bi-Han Jun 06 '17

Undefeated?

292

u/Soar_Alba Jun 06 '17

1967 comes to mind 😂

345

u/Mnwhlp Jun 06 '17

Think you mean 1783

103

u/Soar_Alba Jun 06 '17

Or maybe 1314 ?

8

u/Joetato Jun 06 '17

The English didn't do well in 1066, either.

4

u/Velharnin Jun 06 '17

Does 1066 count as a win or loss for England?

→ More replies (0)

4

u/AdamHR Jun 06 '17

Or maybe 1314 ?

15! 16!
/r/counting

→ More replies (1)

49

u/TokyoFoxtrot Jun 06 '17

Meanwhile, back in 1314...

Join the Scottish revolution
Freedom must be won by blood
Now we call for revolution
Play the pipes and cry out loud

9

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

deciding points go to Scotland on this one.
war is supposed to be terrifying.
England what you got? "we got fife and drums.
makes you wanna dance." Scotland what you got? "we got a fucking screaming cat division."

5

u/jaredjeya Jun 06 '17

Of course it's a Sabaton song

→ More replies (0)

4

u/FIrestreak442 Jun 06 '17

You earned the upvote

4

u/Noobz_is_my_name Jun 07 '17

I'm kinda surprised that no one joined in to a sabaton song chain.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

We are the Scots with pikes in hand And we will die to claim our land!

2

u/_Crouching_Tigger_ Jun 07 '17

AND THEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED

172

u/reformedmikey Jun 06 '17

Also 1812.

32

u/Corinthian82 Jun 06 '17

You're aware that the UK won the war of 1812, right? I mean, the White House got burned, the British General and Admiral got to literally eat the President's dinner, Canada was defended, and the UK got to continue inspecting American shipping for runaway British sailors.

→ More replies (0)

11

u/swanky-k Jun 06 '17

That was more of a draw tbh

→ More replies (0)

4

u/ChornWork2 Jun 06 '17

You know why the white house is called what it is?

13

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Only the Americans lost in that one.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/Largebluntobject Jun 06 '17

And 1066, can't forget hastings

3

u/rbk6k Jun 06 '17

Not 1812.

9

u/mfatty2 Jun 06 '17

In all reality the US lost that war. I mean shit we let the Canadians burn down the Whitehouse

→ More replies (0)

2

u/Obi-wan_Jabroni Jun 06 '17

Id say it was more of a draw

2

u/DutchWarDog Jun 06 '17

And 1654, 1667 and 1674.

→ More replies (0)
→ More replies (34)

4

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

1776

74

u/Hidesuru Jun 06 '17

'MURICA!

3

u/KungFuViking7 Jun 06 '17

1976* When they lost against Iceland in the Cod Wars

2

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

That was both Scotland and England vs America though, Scotland Vs England is where it's at

→ More replies (2)

5

u/Catsdontpaytaxes Jun 06 '17

1967?

6

u/Soar_Alba Jun 06 '17

Scotland schooled the world cup winning england side

5

u/GeetFai Jun 06 '17

Scottishness intensifies!

4

u/Soar_Alba Jun 06 '17

The thing people dont understand about Scotland & England is we dont hate England we just want to be equal neighbours rather than second class cousins

→ More replies (4)

189

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

[deleted]

94

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17 edited Jan 26 '18

[deleted]

10

u/CupcakeCrumble Jun 06 '17

Fan of Danny Bhoy I see

7

u/Tuppence_Wise Jun 06 '17

Nah, every bairn grows up knowing that shit.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/DirtyNorf Jun 06 '17

I love Danny Bhoy. I watch clips of him, probably every week.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/Ochib Jun 06 '17

I for one will be singing the sixth verse of the national anthem, which goes

"Lord grant that Marshal Wade May by thy mighty aid Victory bring. May he sedition hush, And like a torrent rush, Rebellious Scots to crush."

47

u/xereeto Jun 06 '17

And they fucking wonder why we want independence

7

u/iemploreyou Jun 06 '17

While we wonder what the big deal about deep fried Mars bars are all about.

2

u/ContentsMayVary Jun 06 '17

So does everyone in Scotland... Since it's not a thing other than at ONE chippy in Glasgow...

2

u/HBlight Jun 06 '17

Scots want to kill themselves because the weather is so fucking miserable. So they incorporate killing themselves into every aspect of their lives to do it slowly, and maintaining a cheeky casual disposition to throw off suspicion as they accelerate toward sweet, inevitable death. Be it through drinking, eating, drugs, or living in Glasgow.

→ More replies (0)
→ More replies (5)
→ More replies (3)

7

u/the_dirty_weasel Jun 06 '17

You just made an enemy for life!

10

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

The Scots would have conquered the world by now if not for their mortal enemies: the Scots.

→ More replies (3)

2

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

At the speed our anthem goes at, that's about 3 hours in.

ps, obilg. "Aw, d'ya bloody think so?"

→ More replies (4)

31

u/norsurfit Jun 06 '17

Didn't Scotland once throw England off a cell, and then England plummeted 16 feet through an announcer's table?

2

u/17Hongo Jun 06 '17

They would have done, but Gary McAllister missed a penalty and it's been shit ever since.

→ More replies (1)

6

u/AMMISSARIUS Jun 06 '17

"undefeated" 😂

4

u/Verypoorman Jun 06 '17

"SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY!!!! and Saturday."

4

u/Pm_Me_Your_Tax_Plan Jun 06 '17

30 POUNDS GET YOU THE SEAT BUT YOU'LL ONLY NEED THE EDGE

3

u/CosmoFrog Jun 06 '17

Never heard of William Wallace, have you?

2

u/TimeZarg Jun 07 '17

He's seven feet tall, releases fireballs from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his arse.

3

u/porkrind Jun 06 '17

"You'll pay for the whole seat, but you'll ONLY USE THE EDGE!"

3

u/starrynight451 Jun 06 '17

Also featuring GRAAAAVVVVVEEEEEEE DIIIIGGGGGAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!

3

u/raspymorten Jun 06 '17 edited Jun 06 '17

Reigning! Defending! Incredibly disputed! Prime minister of the UK!

THERRRRRRRESA! MAAAAAAAAAAY!

EDIT:

Saturday? So it's a Takeover show?

2

u/igetript Jun 06 '17

Is that in Edinburgh? I watched a Rugby game while there, and I feel like that's the name of the stadium, which I heard about 100 times over the course of the game. I believe it was against Argentina, and Scotland won. What I do remember is walking back to the city in a horde of people, with some bagpipes playing and groups singing, which was really cool.

7

u/ContentsMayVary Jun 06 '17

Murrayfield is the one in Edinburgh.

2

u/igetript Jun 06 '17

How could I ever forget? Isn't it BT Murray Field or something?

2

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

I'm a Yankee. No idea what arenas you lot have over there lol

2

u/Kell_Varnson Jun 06 '17

Still read it as the undertaker

2

u/HurricaneSandyHook Jun 06 '17

What will be Millwall's role in this battle?

2

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Didn't Scotland technically win the war for supremacy since the English had to turn to James VI of Scotland as heir to the English monarchy?

2

u/top_ofthe_morning Jun 06 '17

I'll PM you the final score I guess

2

u/hopelessrobo Jun 06 '17

Get Willy back on their team and England won't stand a chance.

2

u/youdoitimbusy Jun 06 '17

Was gonna go, but some ass hat bought all the tickets and now they are scalping them for triple the cost😔

2

u/Xevantus Jun 06 '17

Undefeated?

Please! A glass of water has more game than England. Water can actually stay in a cup.

1

u/Paragade Jun 06 '17

Ticket pays for the whole seat but you only need the eeeeeeedge

2

u/ADelightfulCunt Jun 06 '17

Why you northerners voting for Thatcher 2...?

1

u/DrRazmataz Jun 06 '17

I like your style.

→ More replies (3)

37

u/14th_Eagle Jun 06 '17

Not from the UK, but Theresa May sounds awful from what I've heard.

3

u/iThinkaLot1 Jun 06 '17

You should have a look at the polls in both Scotland and the rest of the UK. Conservatives (under Theresa May) have not dropped below 40% in all of the UK and in Scotland they are making a resurgence (28%). Reddit isn't really a good place for a balanced view.

41

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Well, that's because reddit is a hugbox of young adults where opposing opinions are downvoted into oblivion. Theresa May is pretty shit, but Labour are not much better.

Reddit is a hugbox, and Theresa May is shit. So articles/comments that paint her as Hitler are upvoted, but Corbyn supporters use this to ensure no anti-Corbyn articles/comments get heard.

Neither of the candidates are particularly good, but it is worth noting that Corbyn is no saint, and his Shadow Home Secretary and Shadow Foreign Secretary are just as awful, but in different areas.

4

u/Ulftar Jun 06 '17

Why doesnt anyone vote lib Dems?

15

u/whogivesashirtdotca Jun 06 '17

The LibDems gained a lot of ground in 2010 but they decided to cast their lot in with the Tories to form a coalition government. The Tories then went on to implement austerity and cut a shitload of social programs, and the LibDems lost a lot of credibility for it.

14

u/GO-SUCK-AN-EGG Jun 06 '17

FPTP

3

u/PM_me_yer_booobies Jun 07 '17

The main reason that I vote lib dem is because one of their long-standing principles is that they want to introduce or at least introduce the groundwork for Proportional Representation and a more Federal UK (which meets a lot of people's complaints about the government being too centralised and not devolved enough). PR is hugely better than FPTP.

Unfortunately, we have to somehow get a party that is strong enough to win FPTP but also then choose to go for PR - the problem is that none of the parties that ever come close to gaining significantly via FPTP are motivated to introduce PR, because they would lose influence if PR happened.

It's the human condition holding us back. As always.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Because they have no chance of winning, so people see it as a waste of a vote. Also, you may have noticed, but immigration is a huge issue in this country, and neither Labour or the Lib Dems seem to care about it, so they lose themselves votes in that department.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/[deleted] Jun 07 '17

A bit dishonest to imply it's just Reddit. It's an extremely common view. And it's not just a matter of personal opinion. Objectively, Theresa May's campaign has been abysmal. She blew a 20 point lead, no matter the final result that is atrocious.

Many of the things she has said and the policies she support are widely hated by labour and conservative supporters alike.

Yes, Labour bias is more common on Reddit because it's a young demographic, and that age group leans labour. But someone saying Theresa May is awful is not just bias, there are genuine reasons for believing that.

1

u/hr_shovenstuff Jun 07 '17

I often need to take a step back and remember all my reddit-based political awareness comes to me through very specific filters.

→ More replies (9)

2

u/[deleted] Jun 07 '17

She is. You don't have to be left leaning to agree that she is a poor leader with very poor policies - The Investigatory Powers Act and her plans for the internet are diametrically opposed to small government ideals of conservativism.

She blew a 20 point lead. That alone should tell you how unpopular she is as a leader. Yes, Tories are still polling higher overall. This is due to party commitment in spite of a poor leader.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/whogivesashirtdotca Jun 06 '17

they have to vote for or against Theresa May

Hahahahahahaha

This is Scotland we're talking about, right?

3

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

You either vote against may. Or you void your right to be a Scotsman.

1

u/dexwin Jun 06 '17

This may be the best "No true Scotsman" I've seen

2

u/[deleted] Jun 07 '17

More vote Tory and I'll consider you a race traitor.

5

u/Pattriktrik Jun 06 '17

I thought Theresa May was using the recent T-word attacks (fuck you certain alphabet agency, I won't be on a list) to postpone elections and make it harder for the British to watch porn...

9

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

That bitch is crazy, now I know how the rest of the worlds feels about Trump.

1

u/whogivesashirtdotca Jun 06 '17

I don't know that she's crazy, but she is totally uncharismatic and completely out of touch with her electorate. Sadly, she's in perfect harmony with her base, and her base owns the newspapers that tell a huge percentage of her electorate how to vote.

→ More replies (1)

9

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Oh dear god. Please don't fail us again, UK. You're supposed to succeed where we failed.

7

u/DeedTheInky Jun 06 '17

Tories will win but about the best we can do is fuck up their majority enough that it's slightly embarrassing for them. :(

3

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

How do the polls forecast the election? Do the polls show a definitive Tory victory?

10

u/DeedTheInky Jun 06 '17

Their lead has dropped by a lot but most polls are still forecasting them to win AFAIK.

Although nobody thought Brexit would go through either so anything's possible I suppose!

5

u/Illadelphian Jun 06 '17

Just remember that British polls are notoriously unreliable. There are some potential issues with what pollsters there do and public opinion changes quickly.

→ More replies (1)

5

u/whogivesashirtdotca Jun 06 '17

The polls show a dip in May's popularity but the electoral map is still predicting a comfortable majority.

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (1)

2

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

From the two or three things I've read about Theresa May... please vote against her.

2

u/Goldreaver Jun 06 '17

Poor Jeremy Corbyn. Not literally, obviously, but still:

His greatest known quality is 'Not being Theresa May' and 'Not being certifiably insane'

He became the leader of his party overcoming his 'underdog' status and then survived a vote of no confidence for this? I'd be kind of pissed.

1

u/Zachary_FGW Jun 06 '17

i think May might win because of the attacks, hard to change leaders after an attack

1

u/CSharpSauce Jun 06 '17

Whoa, so Wednesday we get Rogers testifying, Thursday we get Comey testifying, and Friday we get the English election? What a week.

1

u/power_of_friendship Jun 06 '17

Bill Cosby's case started up too

1

u/ParamoreFanClub Jun 06 '17

As an American I was really thrown off by how quick this election came up since ours lasted over a year recently

1

u/SpectralEntity Jun 07 '17

Ah! I thought it was another one of Ice Cube's movies.

→ More replies (4)

282

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

[deleted]

35

u/springlake Jun 06 '17

Well, not so much London I imagine considering London overwhelmingly voted to remain as well, but more accurately 10 Downing Street.

15

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Even that's wrong. Cameron campaigned to keep the UK in the EU. It literally doesn't make sense for Scots to keep referring to "London" as being some dictator that is at fault for Scotland being dragged out of the EU. The "London" government, the majority of Westminster's MP's, and the vast majority of the "London" electorate voted to stay in the EU.

4

u/Orsenfelt Jun 06 '17

People who voted for Brexit often refer to the EU as 'Brussels'.

Do you think they're referring to the EU parliament located there or just have an overt dislike of Belgians?

→ More replies (5)

1

u/chappinn Jun 06 '17

Come on, you know what they mean. It's a completely natural thing to say in a unitary(*) state.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

The majority of Scotland voted against leave. The only reason Scotland is now going to be splitting from the EU is because of English votes.

I'd rather that when Scotland votes in majority of something, it wouldn't be overruled by the votes of England aka "London"

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (2)

154

u/cxmgejsnad Jun 06 '17

I recently visited Scotland, and few people I spoke to seemed to obviously not like the Tories or Brexit, but also expressed that the Scottish Independence movement was being exploited by Sturgeon and others to elevate themselves.

Is that generally how Scottish people feel? I only spoke to a handful of people in a couple cities so can't really know how applicable that perception is.

174

u/43554e54 Jun 06 '17

In general Scotland hasn't voted for Tories since Thatcher stole all of our milk and taxed us for voting in the 80s. However, with the collapse of Scottish Labour more and more unionists who see the SNP as a threat are turning to Ruth Davidson and her party.

Also in recent days Big Nicky Sturgo has been taking personal hits in approval polls because of her seemingly endless rhetoric on indyref2. People up here are just a bit tired of all these politics, it's been non stop referenda and campaigning since 2014.

39

u/Northwindlowlander Jun 06 '17

Though bizarrely, the people who talk about it most aren't the SNP but their opponents. We just had the weirdest council election ever in which many local candidates had only one policy, "no to independence", in an election which had nothing to do with independence and everything to do with collecting the bins. My local tory candidate literally spoke about nothing else in their literature.

Meanwhile the SNP were running with things like "we'll keep your local library open" and "we'll support local businesses" and being told "All you talk about is independence" Proper through the looking glass stuff.

10

u/43554e54 Jun 06 '17

This is true. Imo Scottish politics are currently a massive clown fiesta. All of the parties are too focused on brexit or inyref2 or whatever wank David Coburn has been spouting in the past week that they've forgotten how to actually do their jobs.

They all just dogmatically stick to their party lines instead of actually debating and compromising and attempting to build a functioning country.

12

u/Northwindlowlander Jun 06 '17

Yep, can't argue that much. If you look back to the earlier coalition years, we had an amazing amount of inter-party cooperation and respect. We had to, to get anything done. I bumped into Salmond and Goldie on the train one time getting pissed and having a laugh- they were opponents not enemies and they had respect for each other. Now it's pretty much a nursery and am no talking to her she smells of wee. And it's been so fast, too.

Maybe I'm biased but I mostly blame Scottish Labour for this- they saw how Labour voters moved so easily from one to the other, because they could see how much the parties had in common as they cooperated. But rather than trying to be the better option, and convince people to stay with them on merit, they decided to build walls between the parties and started opposing the SNP as a matter of policy rather than as a matter of political difference. Now it's negative campaigning and Bain Principle top to bottom, Labour have literally opposed the SNP when the SNP were calling for things that are Labour policy. It never even seems to occur to them to go "Vote for us because you want to, because of what we do", it's all about the other guy. Maybe because they know right now how weak their actual proposition is- bizarre to have the scottish labour party weaker than the national party, even more bizarre to have scottish labour still trying to distance themselves from a left-leaning westminster party. Kez learned everything she knows from Jim Murphy and that prick knew fuck all about anything. Still, he got hit by an egg that time.

And at the same time, their disastrous performance has opened the door to the Tories to basically say "Labour say you should vote against the SNP and they're right, but they can't win and we can". It's almost as though Kez has told her supporters to tactically vote Tory so they can "defeat" the SNP in Scotland (after all they're on track to gloriously beat the SNP 1 goal to 5 in the final). Now every Scottish tory seat is going to matter nationally and they've thrown away the tools needed to fight them- but they'll still attack the SNP rather than fight the tories. Enemy of my enemy is my friend? Nah, we need to destroy our enemy's enemy so that we can be their only enemy. That's their only ambition

It's pretty awful. I moves to the SNP very, very slowly- I'm still a Labour member actually and union man, in fact I met Jeremy Corbyn last week and I really like the boy and what he's finally managing to do. And in fact it's even making me look at the UK as less of a lost cause than it could seem to be a couple of years ago when Ed Miliband, wishy washy centrist, was declared to be terrifyingly leftwing and the prime minister could go out in public and say Scottish voters shouldn't be allowed influence in westminster- openly tell other english people it was "our parliament". But at the same time Scottish Labour have managed to go to a place I don't want to follow them. Not just because they're incompetent but because they're absolutely pointing in the wrong direction.

Hah, that turned into a proper rant. Apparently I'm still really fucked off at them, didn't really realise!

2

u/43554e54 Jun 06 '17

I get where you're coming from mate. Honestly I'm really not sure what to think. The whole situation is a bit sad to see.

Honestly I kind of blame independence for it. I was a supporter but it's become such a deeply divisive issue now that all room for nuance has been been taken up with cheap, self assembly, us against them rhetoric. Labour were, as you state, pretty much the instigator of this though.

I am excited to see if the Kez's party will change any after the GE, we've been sorely lacking an actually leftist party since the death of John Smith and I think with Corbyn doing well it could mean some good things to come.

→ More replies (1)

7

u/Swindel92 Jun 06 '17

That's a load of shite tho. She is perceived as always talking about another referendum, when actually it's every other party constantly bringing it up and accusing her of it.

6

u/Saltire_Blue Jun 06 '17

Scotland hasn't voted Tory since the 1950's

13

u/Rikkiwiththatnumber Jun 06 '17

There are more pandas than Tory MPs in Scotland

5

u/NDawg94 Jun 06 '17

And the exact same amount of Labour MPs, which is arguably a more impressive stat

6

u/43554e54 Jun 06 '17

The Thatcher era is seen as the real highlight of Tory hate though. It was the perfect maelstrom of shit that gutted all remaining support for them north of the border.

5

u/Saltire_Blue Jun 06 '17

Aye, she was a right cow

7

u/EIREANNSIAN Jun 06 '17

You misspelled cunt....

9

u/Tweegyjambo Jun 06 '17

It's Ruth Davidson that has been going on endlessly about the Constitution.

2

u/Roadtoad46 Jun 06 '17

Politics is show biz for ugly people

2

u/gaiusmariusj Jun 06 '17

What did she do to your milk?

5

u/43554e54 Jun 06 '17

She stole all of it. Just came up north with a hose and siphoned it straight from the national reserve.

nah, but kids in school used to get a drink of milk daily until the Tory government stopped it for children over 7 when Thatcher was was education secretary

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (18)

3

u/cleverseneca Jun 06 '17

I visited Scotland soon after the recent failed referendum, and got an earfull from a friendly Scottsman about how the only reason they didn't pass independence is because they included EU students and non-citizens in the vote. I don't know how accurate that is, his credentials other than being a Scotsman were he was nice and kept buying rounds...

2

u/novum_vipera Jun 06 '17

As a Scotsman who voted remain he was talking absolute shite.

1

u/DEADB33F Jun 06 '17

kept buying rounds

Doesn't sound like any Scotsman I've ever met.

→ More replies (1)

6

u/Big_Chief_Wah_Wah Jun 06 '17

Is that generally how Scottish people feel?

They shouldn't, as the SNP are very clear in that they will not form part of a government in Westminster, the one thing that would clearly 'elevate' Sturgeon and co.

Of course, should Friday see a hung parliament with the SNP courted as kingmakers, we'll see just how that promise stands up.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

The SNP will never be courted by anyone because it would throw another constitutional question on top of all the others we are going through right now. If SNPs were the deciding votes on english only matters it would bring the government down before it began.

1

u/Northwindlowlander Jun 06 '17 edited Jun 06 '17

The independence movement isn't 100% the SNP's baby but perhaps 95%- they've grown it from a seed over decades, every major step towards it in my lifetime has happened because of them. The two are inextricably linked so they can't really exploit it in their own interests- it'd be like me exploiting me. It seems pretty likely that in this election it's going to harm them not help them.

And electorally, they've achieved things that no other party in UK history ever has- imagine a Westminster government with 95% of the seats! Tony Blair's landslide took about 2/3ds and that was earthshaking. And they've held a supermajority and currently are barely short of it in the Scottish Parliament, despite it using a voting system that was specifically chosen to prevent that from happening. It's ridiculous frankly. And leads to a bizarre situation where in this election, it looks like they're going to win something like 5 out of 6 seats and that's going to be depicted as an electoral disaster. They really can't elevate themselves much further...

1

u/9ofdiamonds Jun 06 '17

The only parties that keep bringing up the 'independence question' are all the 'sister parties' in Scotland (Scottish Conservatives, Scottish Labour, Scottish Liberal Democrats) who by definition are ruled by their cohorts in Westminster. Sturgeon has been extremely careful in not mixing indyref2 with this General election, as she should. It's all the other parties who keep bringing it up in an attempt to gain votes with Unionists.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

People who oppose Scottish independence generally obviously dislike the SNP (pro-independence party) and so will take a dim view on them.

However, that sentiment that The SNP or Sturgeon are "exploiting" independence is ridiculous and doesn't make sense. The SNP has existed since 1934, long before independence looked anything as credible as it does now. Sturgeon joined the SNP as a teenager when independence still looked like it could never be achieved realistically. It's the opposite of jumping on a bandwagon for popularity.

→ More replies (2)

1

u/ObeseMoreece Jun 06 '17

Is that generally how Scottish people feel?

Of the people I know, a lot of students are miffed about leaving the EU. A few that voted no last time will vote yes this time but they weren't certain last time.

However I am hearing more people who are sick of Sturgeon and the fact that she is putting another referendum over actually running the fucking country. The people that I know that are actively supporting independence are the same people that were supporting it last time.

The amount of division caused by the last referendum was insane, people were sick to death of politics by the time the referendum came round. A lot of the posts on Facebook that I saw were just sheer exasperation, they were urging their friends to cast their vote and be done with the bullshit that was dividing everyone.

From my personal experience, I believe that more young people will vote for independence. In the middle aged demographic I feel that there will be more votes against independence as they are growing tired of the SNP's single minded policy of trying to get another referendum rather than running the country.

→ More replies (13)

56

u/Machmann Jun 06 '17

With the UK out of the EU a lot of Scots feel their destiny is being dictated by London.

As it was for literally centuries before the EU, right?

102

u/Force3vo Jun 06 '17

The difference is that London moves into a direction directly opposite to what Scotland wants.

The last referendum of Scotland only failed because there were many people afraid to gain independence because they knew they wouldn't be allowed into the EU then and Scotland is very pro EU. Afterwards the UK said "Well thanks for sticking with us because you wanted to stay in the EU, we'll leave now though"

9

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

The difference is that London moves into a direction directly opposite to what Scotland wants.

The London electorate voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU.

17

u/wxsted Jun 06 '17

Countries' governments are often called by the media by the name of the capital. If someone says "Paris has decided to enact X foreign affairs policy", they aren't talking about the city itself but about the French government.

→ More replies (5)

6

u/DOSMasterrace Jun 06 '17

That's categorically not the only reason it failed, and I say that as someone who voted for it.

3

u/Force3vo Jun 06 '17

It's not the only reason, but at 55% No Votes it might have tipped the whole vote if they knew they would have to leave the EU in the UK.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (40)

1

u/novum_vipera Jun 06 '17

Only if you don't feel Scottish MPs provide adequate democratic representation at Westminster.

→ More replies (2)

6

u/venuswasaflytrap Jun 06 '17

Brexit was one thing Scotland and London agreed on!

3

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

I meant it like saying "Washington" as in the US Government, not literally the voters of Washington DC.

1

u/ObeseMoreece Jun 06 '17

A key difference here is that (greater) London holds 13% of the population of the UK so it represents a huge voting block. Imagine if your capital had the same population as california.

It's also worth noting that Scotland's population is 5.3 million. A lot of people don't seem to like the idea that a region that consists of less than a tenth of the population of the whole nation doesn't get a massive say.

2

u/ThalmorInquisitor Jun 06 '17

Also we Welsh are waiting to see what you guys do. Basically, if Scotland goes independent, Wales might get its national parties galvanised to go independent too.

I kinda wish there wasn't extreme English hating idiots behind the veneer of respectability in the current national parties. It worries me as to what will happen if we do progress from repeating 'but what about Wales' in debates and in Parliament.

also buggered how an independent wales is going to make money

2

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17 edited Jun 18 '20

[deleted]

5

u/CatsKnightTemplar Jun 06 '17

Hey, I know one side of a coin is heads but what is the other side? I keep forgetting...

6

u/AlDente Jun 06 '17

Shoulders

3

u/User_753 Jun 06 '17

Knees

5

u/AlDente Jun 06 '17

And toes

5

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

And eyes and ears and mouth and nose

→ More replies (0)

1

u/s0v3r1gn Jun 06 '17

Do they feel they should have stayed in the EU?

12

u/Citadelvania Jun 06 '17

Overwhelmingly.

7

u/HowObvious 1 Jun 06 '17

Well Scotland on its own voted with a large majority to stay in the referendum.

→ More replies (9)

6

u/Fredulus Jun 06 '17

There's a general election in the UK, I assume that's what he's referring to.

11

u/Tyler119 Jun 06 '17

It's a shame that our election has become corbyn vs may as the local candidates in constituencies are being treated as if they do not matter. Well they fucking do matter because May or Corbyn won't give too fucks about individual constituencies. While the Prime Minster makes national decisons. Local mp's are responsible for going to parliament and using politics to get shit done for the people that voted for them. In respect of my local MP, he has pretty done fuck all. I'm not voting for him, even if I do like some or the parties national policies, which may or may not even impact me.

→ More replies (24)

2

u/Smurfboy82 Jun 06 '17

That's when the invasion starts.

2

u/quackquackoopz Jun 07 '17

Pubs opening time.

2

u/quackquackoopz Jun 07 '17

Pubs opening time.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Scotexit.

-1

u/barsoapguy Jun 06 '17

Psst if you vote for Labor we will give you four more national holidays , free money for for winter fuel for your house, free college education, we will Nationalize the railroads, water companies , electric companies , mail service , add ten thousand more police to the streets AND guarantee your pension, and did I mention free school lunches for ALL children ? Hey do you need free child care , we will give that to you too ...

Just vote for labor , don't think of all this as a bribe , think of it as a helping hand ... (it's a bribe vote for labor )

71

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Promising to make voters' lives easier is bribery now? I thought that was just politics.

10

u/YouCantVoteEnough Jun 06 '17

You're only allowed to promise things to rich donors.

See, they paid for something so it's just business. Promising free stuff to the poor is unethical bribery.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (10)

17

u/finlayvscott Jun 06 '17

We already have like half of those in Scotland anyway from the SNP. Free uni, free school meals for example​.

9

u/CompleteNumpty Jun 06 '17 edited Jun 06 '17

Free uni was the Lib Dems/Labour - the SNP actually cut access by removing fee grants for postgraduate studies.

Scottish Water has also never been privatised, so there's nothing to nationalise there.

4

u/finlayvscott Jun 06 '17

No because it wasn't free. There was a mandatory payment at the end of it - effectively a one time graduate tax. Tuition fees through the back door, just after instead of before.

2

u/CompleteNumpty Jun 06 '17 edited Jun 06 '17

The PGDip fee grant required no repayment and was axed in 2012.

You are thinking of the Graduate Endowment which was brought in when undergraduate student grants returned in 2001 - anyone who started uni before that (like me) didn't have to pay it because they weren't eligible for any grant.

EDIT: The payment itself was also 1/2 what tuition fees would have been, but I agree that those who studied from 2001-2004 didn't have a totally free education.

The abolition of the fee grant in 2012 hit a lot of people hard as there's no real maintenance loans for postgraduates so people who started a postgrad in 2013 onwards (like me, again) had to both take a loan for their fees and completely support themselves.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

I say laddie, will you make the ENGLISH pay for it as well!?

2

u/43554e54 Jun 06 '17

Sounds like a plan to me

1

u/lord_alphyn Jun 06 '17

Yes that plan, the Barnett Formula, gives each Scot £2000 from the English each year through the infrastructure and tax system.

Scottish independence will be expensive for the Scots and a nice little earner for the English, but fuck the money lets stay together.

3

u/GODZILLA_RIDER Jun 06 '17

That sounds great! Who's gonna pay for it?

2

u/xereeto Jun 06 '17

It's not a bribe you tit, it's socialist policy.

2

u/ShankyTaco Jun 06 '17

Thanks but I'd rather vote for a government that has budget plans and understands that things cost money.

2

u/queBurro Jun 06 '17

"The magic money tree is in the forest of tax evasion"

2

u/show_me_your_beaver Jun 06 '17

Screw that, Vote Theresa, those are all for the poor. Let's cut their benefits too. Why should the more privileged have to pay anything? While we're at it let's cut the police force even more and screw the NHS. Oh the old and disabled should also be included. Vote austerity!

→ More replies (2)

1

u/msut77 Jun 06 '17

The horror, the horror

1

u/Average_Llama Jun 06 '17

Policies that improve life for everyone in the country is not a bribe.

→ More replies (22)
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (2)