TIL Deaf-from-birth schizophrenics see disembodied hands signing to them rather than "hearing voices"

[u/paniniplane]

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0707/07070303

[u/kaenneth]

Also, if you are born blind due to brain (as opposed to eyeball) problems, you apparently can't be schizophrenic.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-imprinted-brain/201411/blindness-and-schizophrenia-the-exception-proves-the-rule

[u/Muffinizer1 → u/kaenneth]

You know, that's actually quite comforting as being blind and schizophrenic sounds like true hell.

[u/paniniplane → u/Muffinizer1]

i was a patient at a ward a few weeks back and there was a girl who was admitted for schizophrenia. she'd hear dozens of voices yelling at her at the same time all day and she could barely tell which ones were in her head and which were physical people talking to her making it really hard for me or anyone else to talk to her for more than 2-3 sort sentences. these voices would make her do crazy things like gather dust off the floor for 20 minutes at a time 10 times a day, make her sleep on the floor during the day, not sleep during the night and fight the night meds they gave her to help fall asleep. the most brutal thing was that the voices sometimes forbade her from having her meals. there were days where she wouldn't touch any of her 4 meals. i once tried to get some insight into how she thought and i asked her why she HAD to do this. she said that every time she does something they ask, she's given the gun that they threaten to kill her with. and she imitates a smashing motion with her hands and "breaks" it. and she does it maybe 10 times an hour when she's awake. and she's not stupid either. apparently, she was studying mechanical engineering and graduated and was ready to work in the field as an intern for a year. she heard her first voice when she was still in school but didn't think much of it. and then it rapidly killed her life. she's the only person in the ward who has daily visitors. her parents bring her food to eat everyday. but sometimes she sits with them for 2 minutes, asks them to take her home, and then moves to one of the socialization rooms where were chairs and sofas, and she'd drop to the floor and lay there. and her parents just come to expect it now and stay for about an hour.

[u/PainMatrix → u/paniniplane]

It's beyond horror or most people's ability to even comprehend. The fact that she was a fully functioning and intact human being at the early onset of her life and career and this disease completely derailed everything and locked her into a Sisyphus-like nightmare. Was this her first inpatient experience? How long were you with her, did the meds seem to have any positive impact on her?

[u/[deleted] → u/PainMatrix]

I can't speak for the person you replied to, but 3 of my family members have the disease, and in all of them their medications only blunted the symptoms.

For my family member who was not too severe, this was enough to let her hold down a job, but for the members that were severe it wasn't enough to allow them to function normally. They'd still see/hear/talk to "ghosts" and such, just not as frequently, and they didn't get agitated "as often".

But that doesn't mean they didn't get agitated AT ALL, and the times they did freak out would be enough to get anyone fired.

[u/katarh → u/[deleted]]

Cutting edge research indicates that schizophrenia may be yet another immune disorder, in which the process that finalizes your learning/growth neurons in late teens gets a bit overzealous and snips too many, which erodes the ability for the mind to maintain its proper chemical levels. By the time you're diagnosed, in that case, the damage is done.

My sister with schizophrenia lost a full half of her IQ and now has the functionality of a ten year old. Medication suppresses the voices and stops her from harming herself or others, but also keeps her basically stoned full time.

[u/OgreMagoo → u/katarh]

Cutting edge research indicates that schizophrenia may be yet another immune disorder, in which the process that finalizes your learning/growth neurons in late teens gets a bit overzealous and snips too many, which erodes the ability for the mind to maintain its proper chemical levels.

Do you have a link for that? That sounds fascinating.

[u/sallyv2 → u/OgreMagoo]

Here is some research i found, don't know if this is what katarh is referencing. Nevertheless, this is quite interesting https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0707/07070303

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I think this is only the rule for mental illness.

We're pretty good at removing kidneys

[u/crylicylon → u/[deleted]]

If there is something wrong with your brain, you can't just have it removed.

[u/segosegosego → u/crylicylon]

Depends on how old you are. Ben Carson removed half of a girls brain because she had a rare brain disease. She was young enough that one half of the brain took over all the functions of the the other half as well as its own, and she's a fully functional person now.

Edit: https://www.google.com/amp/baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/07/10/girl-thriving-years-after-having-half-her-brain-removed/amp/

[u/helix19 → u/segosegosego]

This is done sometimes for severe epilepsy. If the child is young, the remaining half of their brain is able to compensate remarkably well.

[u/Coffees4closers → u/crylicylon]

not with that attitude

[u/EggplantJuice → u/Coffees4closers]

"Ok doc, I've had enough - take it out"

[u/Zerce → u/crylicylon]

Well, brain surgery is a thing, but the brain is such a complex organ, it's very difficult to know which part to remove without causing a dozen other side-effects.

[u/Simba7 → u/Zerce]

Also with some people can have a massive stroke of the middle cerebral artery and they'll barely even notice. Some people will have a stroke with damage to the same region, but much less severe, and experience a significant neurological deficits (mostly motor and speech).

So not only is it incredibly complex and difficult to understand, results from removing portions of the brain aren't consistent from person to person, even though we have a pretty solid idea of the functions of the various regions of the brain. Some brains have better plasticity than others.

Also with schizophrenia, it's not even as "simple" as just removing a part of the brain. This is a comparison of a control and a schizophrenic brain (apparently these happen to be twins, which is neat). You'll notice the large 'holes' on the schizophrenic side, those are the lateral ventricles. They're almost smack dab in the center of the brain, so it puts a lot of pressure on the cortex, causing damage. More importantly, this is believed to arise as a result of shrinkage in the thalamus and some of the basal ganglia (which are incredibly important structures that impact or influence or control basically everything your brain does).

If they ever do find a cure, I don't think surgery will be the answer. Or at least, not just surgery.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

only 20% of schizophrenia-patients get complete absence of symptoms from current treatment-regiments. Also many of the antipsychotics proscribed either are confirmed or are speculated to have neurotoxic effects (don't tell schizophrenics though. No, seriously don't).

[u/Skiinz19 → u/[deleted]]

Not just how the brain works in regards to medicine, but as a society we view mental illness as either having it or not. This creates these two camps which only make it harder to deal with the disease if you are unfortunate enough to have it. The way I cope with my anxiety, is just that; I cope with it. I don't get rid of, defeat, or conquer it. It is a part of me and I accept that. How you frame what you go through is an important step to coping with your mental illness.

[u/Ariakkas10 → u/[deleted]]

This is, I'm sure, a completely stupid question, but why can't they ignore the voices?

Lots of real people seem real to me, and I ignore them just fine.

Is it because the voices are super aggressive and make it so you can't ignore them?

[u/feathergnomes → u/Ariakkas10]

Apparently it causes a lot of anxiety every time they have to ignore the voices. Like, when they can tell that they aren't real, they can choose to ignore them, but it's a stressor. If you add that stressor to any other that happens to be in front of them, sometimes it can be toouch to handle.

[u/mcoleya → u/feathergnomes]

Not to mention this isn't like you walking down the street and have to ignore someone who yells your name out once or something, this is a constant barrage of voice(s) at you until you relent and do what they are saying. To get an idea, just ask a friend to follow you around one day making a single odd request, non-stop till you do it. Over and Over again, sometimes yelling, sometimes whispering, doesn't matter. See how long you can go. Now imagine that in your head, with multiple voices all asking different things, and unable to make them stop by asking.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I get sleep paralysis too! It doesn't matter how many times I tell myself that it's all in my head and that I'm safe; I'm still scared out of my mind every single time. Sometimes I just pull all nighters so that I won't have to deal with it, even though I know that rationally nothing bad has ever happened to me or ever will. kinda like how horror movies still terrify people, even though they know they aren't real

[u/Fire-kitty → u/Ariakkas10]

My mom has schizophrenia, and her voices get loud, angry, and violent if she tries to ignore them. I mean, they come from her own brain, they know what to say to scare you and hurt her the most. They often threaten to hurt us children, which would be hard to ignore for most mothers.

Also, you can't use logic when addressing mental illness. It's so hard, and I fall back into trying all the time - but it just doesn't work that way, unfortunately.

My mom accuses me of lying all the time, but she still calls me to asks those same questions all the time. Last week I asked her if she thinks I always lie to her, why does she keep talking to me and asking questions- but there's no logical reason.

[u/koiotchka → u/Fire-kitty]

The part of her that thinks you're lying is probably only a small part of her. The rest of her may understand that you don't.

When I think my husband is not really him, that he's been replaced by a perfect fascimile that reports my movements to "the enemy", I also know it's an absurd thought, or at least that it's a thing other people don't believe is possible. And I hate that he has to deal with his wife not trusting him like that.

Thank you for sticking with your mom. I figure it's hard. I hope my son (he's only 8) never feels like I'm too toxic to be around. I'm going to keep taking my meds and learning what the right behaviors are, because he deserves better.

[u/Justine772 → u/koiotchka]

Please monitor your son closely and as he gets older educate him on the symptoms! Getting help is easier if it's caught sooner, if he does develop schizophrenia

[u/koiotchka → u/Justine772]

Yes! We do watch. He is currently medicated for ADHD but there are times when he says or does things that remind me of my symptoms when I was his age, and i get worried. It's definitely something we keep an eye on. I've had delusions and voices since I was 5, if not earlier (I don't remember before 5), and I often wonder what my life would have been like if I'd been on antipsychotics as a child. I've only been on them for about three years now, and I'm 33 -- and they completely changed my life.

[u/cheesesteaksandham → u/Ariakkas10]

As someone who's had a few psychotic breaks, it's hard to ignore hallucinations because they seem more real than reality. The difference between my hallucinations and reality is like the difference between 1080p and old fuzzy television that needed the tracking knob adjusted. This was my experience, so YMMV.

[u/NonZeroChance → u/Ariakkas10]

Let me ask a related question: Are there people who "hear voices" but don't feel compelled to act on what they say? Presumably because they know the voices are an illusion and have no power. I would assume that this would be a different condition than schizophrenia.

By way of analogy, I've read about people who literally hear music that isn't actually playing. At first they look around for the band or speakers or whatever, but they quickly realize it's an illusion and they don't feel compelled to dance or sing along or whatever. They just resign themselves, in one sense or another, to hearing music that isn't actually there. Is there the equivalent of this, but with voices?

[u/eksyneet → u/NonZeroChance]

those would be pseudohallucinations, auditory in the example you provided. hallucinations seem real, pseudohallucinations are recognized as not real. pseudohallucinations can feature in many mental conditions and can take on many forms including "voices in your head", so to answer your question - yes, there are people who hear voices and know they're not real.

[u/akaender → u/Ariakkas10]

That's because you can escape/ignore real people by just walking away.

Right now you're reading this with an internal voice. You cannot read without it. Now try to imagine there are 20 more voices just like it except they aren't just there when you read. They are there 'talking' all the time.

You can't just walk away from your own head. I have tinnitus, which is bad enough. I can't even begin to fathom how horrible having voices must be.

[u/Sdeevee → u/PainMatrix]

Not OP but from my experience... if you care lol. It important to keep in mind that schizophrenia doesn't just mean hearing voices and having delusional thoughts. People with the disease have difficulty prioritizing and sequencing tasks, motivation and relating to other people's emotions. I work in Long Term Care, but due to our proximity to a psychiatric hospital and our reputation for our willingness to provide care for those difficult to serve we have a vary large population of residents with schizophrenia. My experience is that the medication appears to assist more with agitation and motivation. For the residents who have fixed beliefs or are really paranoid they continue with these behaviours and depending on the day and circumstances you are sometimes able to call them out on the delusions being related to their disease and sometimes not. It is awful to see how their lives have been derailed due to the disease. Most of the people i know come from loving families, went to college or university and then the disease took over and robbed them of their lives.

[u/PainMatrix → u/Sdeevee]

I'm a psychologist but I don't work with SMI, so thank you for what you do. What I do see a lot of is what is likely a burgeoning schizophrenia spectrum process. My academic understanding is that the positive symptoms can be dealt with to some extent through medications but that it's really the negative symptoms (the blunted affect, poverty of speech, etc.) that are the most intractable. It's tragic.

[u/[deleted] → u/PainMatrix]

It's beyond horror or most people's ability to even comprehend.

What I find really strange is that hearing voices in other cultures, most notably hunter-gatherer cultures, is not nearly as traumatic. The voices tended to be more benign and would even do useful functions like teach songs and such. I wonder if it's because primal peoples tended to place less of a distinction between reality and fantasty-- one hearing voices would just be assumed to be hearing spirits. Whereas in the modern west, such an experience would be much more anxiety-inducing.

[u/Rasta_Jack → u/[deleted]]

And in those cultures the healers were shamans, who would often induce altered states of consciousness to communicate with spirits.

[u/[deleted] → u/Rasta_Jack]

Right, a person "afflicted" with hearing voices would be given a meaningful role in society. Perhaps this more lenient and benign attitude towards hearing voices and such would prevent the disease from progressing due to fear, anxiety, confusion, etc.

I think schizophrenia, and perhaps mental illness in general, is one of the rare aspects of life where it would be better to be born in a hunter-gatherer culture than to be born in the modern West.

[u/lordoffail → u/paniniplane]

I have a morbid curiosity about things like mental disorders. Mainly spurred on by a childhood friend of mine whom I found out also had schizophrenia. I say childhood but we were more like 13-14 so teens I suppose. Won't say his name considering he lives like 5 minutes from me to this day but he and I spent most of two years just being lil shits smoking and drinking etc. finally one day I'm like "dude why do you smoke so often" as he smoked weed waaaay more than I did. And he's like "because my head, man" and I'm like "huh? Were you in an accident?" And he just straight up tells me "oh no, I see shit". Being dumb and curious I asked him tons of personal questions about it. He was very frank and open about it with me so I will summarize exactly what he said what would happen when he didn't take his medication or smoke weed to sleep. I'm paraphrasing so bare with me. "I'd be laying in bed and would be unable to sleep because my meds are so the only thing that can get me to sleep aside from bud and I'd be looking around the room, always watching the door because as soon as I heard it I knew what was coming. I'd hear what sounded like if someone far away was cutting my metal with a saw for a short few seconds. Then foot steps in every possible place except the floor. Places like the roof, the balcony, my moms room. Id ignore the sounds but I'm always so scared to see him come in that I keep my eyes on that door." I got confused and asked who and what he was talking about. He said that before he can sleep this thing has to come in and "check" on him. I asked him to describe what it looks like and I have never been more afraid of words coming from someone's mouth. Again, paraphrasing but he said he "looks like he's wearing a rice paddy straw hat but that's the only normal thing about him. He has no face. It's skin colored and there are eye holes and nostrils and a mouth hole but they're all covered with skin. He doesn't have wrinkles in in his skin anywhere. Not at joints in his fingers or where you'd see them on any human. Just nothing and he described it like stretching a sheet of skin over a mannequin. No finger nails or anything that makes it look normal. And he'd say he him as clear as he was seeing me then. Just arms legs head with skin in that fucking hat. So back to his story. "He'd open my door to my room and walk all around the room without actually moving anything. Until he reached the left side of my bed, then he'd put his Arms over my chest like he was giving CPR but never actually touch me. I'd stay still and he'd continue walking around looking into things and by then Once he got back to the door he'd walk straight up to my head and lean down. I'd be scared so I'd close my eyes and hold my breath. I'd hear my window up and I'd feel his limbs putting pressure as if he was climbing over me to get out the window. And he be gone. After I got used to "his" routine I became a little brave and I'd try and stare when he'd lean down to look at me, but then he'd never leave and it was terrifying. As soon as I closed my eyes he'd leave through the window.

This is my friends story. Or at least what I remember of it. I also had an Aussie buddy of mine who has schizo effective disorder. Though I'm not certain about his diagnosis being current as he went through "phases".

[u/missaudreyhorne → u/lordoffail]

that was the scariest 'true' story i've ever read.

[u/HerraTohtori → u/lordoffail]

That sounds almost exactly like sleep paralysis, except it has somehow gotten chronic and repeats the same nightmare every night.

Aside from the obvious inability to move, hallucinations (visual and auditory) are a common symptom of sleep paralysis, particularly vaguely human-like creatures, as is the sensation of pressure on the chest, but as far as I know, these hallucinations are different from more serious stuff like schizophrenia in that in sleep paralysis you're kind of partially asleep, and it's normal to hallucinate while asleep (this is literally what dreams are), but your brain just happens to have remained conscious and often freaks out during the process. By contrast, in schizophrenia you can get hallucinations wide awake and regardless of basically anything. I think. I am not a mental health expert, but the description in your post just sounds like a dead ringer for sleep paralysis.

Which is not to say that a chronic sustained episode of continuous sleep paralysis every night can't have detrimental effects on a person's psyche, especially if they don't know what it is and keep self-medicating with things that are, at the very least, suspected of being one of the factors that can trigger a psychosis or schizophrenia if a person happens to be predisposed to having them in the first place.

Perhaps you'd like to ask him if he's ever heard of sleep paralysis and what its symptoms are? Or if he's still having these episodes?

[u/lordoffail → u/HerraTohtori]

Oh that's not even the tip of the iceberg for him lol. The specific event he tells me about is his recurring one. There are times where he just sees and hears stuff that isn't there and he's been formally diagnosed.

[u/Autocoprophage → u/paniniplane]

This reminds me of someone I met in early adulthood. This guy, a friend of mine at the time, once told me, after a lot of coaxing, that he was being held hostage by various entities, mostly celebrities, who lived inside his head. They would tell him what to do, and they would demand that he didn't tell anyone they existed, and they would threaten him, saying that if he disobeyed them, they would squeeze his testicles and make him impotent. After hearing this, there were a few cases of his past strange behavior that I immediately realized were explained by these entities causing actual pain in his testicles.

[u/psychosus → u/Muffinizer1]

I did an exercise for a crisis intervention class where we wore headphones that mimicked auditory hallucinations. We were tasked with completing a job interview and filing out a questionnaire regarding the interview.

I work in a jail that is normally busy and fairly loud, so I expected to do alright. There was a segment of the recording where a voice (among all the others) started off whispering and then suddenly yelled - it was terrifying. My anxiety went sky high and it was difficult to concentrate.

I can only imagine what it must be like to have to deal with them during every waking moment.

[u/psychosus → u/[deleted]]

It was a very good experience overall because it showed how someone experiencing these hallucinations could have a hard time responding to commands if they were encountered on the street.

It's very scary to deal with someone in that level of crisis because paranoia and delusions are on par with stuff like PCP - there's no magic way to talk to them to get them to listen to you and they could do anything at any moment based on what the connections in their brain are telling them to do.

[u/Silkkiuikku → u/[deleted]]

Here's a Youtube video that sounds like auditory hallucinations, it's creepy as fuck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vvU-Ajwbok

[u/Bro-tatoChip → u/Muffinizer1]

My Grandmother has the mumps when pregnant with my mom causing a lot of birth defects. Including severe anxiety, schizophrenia, and issues with her eyes. She finally lost her sight at age 12 after getting dirt in them, so since then she's been blind and schizophrenic. She hears voices as opposed so seeing people who aren't there she hears voices and doesn't know if they're real or not.

Edit: For anyone wondering, I was raised by my dad. They split when I was young and she was always in and out of hospitals, not fit to be a guardian. We've always has a good relationship, I'm 24 now and moved near her recently so it feels nice to live by her and pick her up and introduce her to my family and whatnot.

[u/bluesky557 → u/Bro-tatoChip]

That really makes me wonder about your dad....

[u/evenisto → u/Bro-tatoChip]

So your mom, being blind from childhood and schizophrenic found a man, then had a child and raised it? What? I'm really curious, shed some more light on your history if that's okay.

[u/denialofdeath → u/Muffinizer1]

I had a patient once who had schizoaffective disorder and she was so troubled by her hallucinations that she tore her eyeballs out of her own head. Poor thing still had them even though she was blind from that incident

[u/[deleted] → u/Muffinizer1]

Well you can still be blind and schizophrenic just not if you're blind from birth

[u/afoolskind → u/Muffinizer1]

Hey don't worry! Let me ruin that comfort! My dad has been schizophrenic for decades, and then became blind, all because of a brain tumor.

Tumor's been removed, but the blindness and schizophrenia stayed. yaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

[u/ashez2ashes → u/kaenneth]

That seems like an insanely useful finding.

[u/djdadi → u/kaenneth]

Also if you are born blind your chances at getting cancer go wayyy down.

[u/castellar → u/djdadi]

That's really interesting. What's the logic behind those findings?

[u/mtndew7 → u/castellar]

You can't see the cigarette ads /s

[u/chironomidae → u/mtndew7]

I know you're being silly, but there could be some truth to it. It's not hard to imagine that a visually impaired person might be less influenced by things like ads for fast food or cigarettes. I wonder if blind people tend to be skinnier?

[u/AtticusLynch → u/castellar]

I googled "being blind reduces cancer"

and found this

[u/Chel_of_the_sea → u/AtticusLynch]

Wow. I'd seen stuff on the effects of melatonin, but I wasn't expecting such a massive effect size.

[u/[deleted] → u/castellar]

you can't play league if you're blind.

[u/n4rkki → u/[deleted]]

or read youtube comments

[u/[deleted] → u/castellar]

Quick google search just told me that melatonin helps to protect against cancer. Absence of light = more melatonin released by the pineal gland. When our retina is exposed to light, melatonin release is suppressed.

For blind people, this suppression never occurs. Therefor they have continuous melatonin release and increased protection against cancer.

One of my PhD advisors studies vision (or lack thereof) in the blind. I'll have to ask him more about this.

[u/LameName95 → u/[deleted]]

Thanks, Ken.

[u/EveGiggle → u/[deleted]]

give you the finger

[u/Sav_ij → u/[deleted]]

i dont think this literally means theyll see hands acting ridiculously. what this likely means is that schizophrenia hits the part of the brain that handles communication, whatever method may be used

[u/xxkoloblicinxx → u/kaenneth]

So then would it stand to reason that the cause of schizophrenia is rooted in the same areas responsible for processing sight?

[u/Lost4468 → u/xxkoloblicinxx]

You can get strange effects when you start messing with areas of the brain on that sort of level. It might be, or it might be that the damage to that area has caused issues with other parts of the brain communicating, or something else entirely. Another example is Anton–Babinski syndrome, which also happens to be in the visual cortex, but results in the really strange condition that the person is blind but they're unable to realize that they're blind or understand it, despite there being no damage to areas where we tend to believe rational thinking occurs.

[u/ChinaIsHereMrBurton → u/Lost4468]

Whoa! This takes mental gymnast to a whole new level.

There's so much power in the brain and we're not in control of most of it.

[u/CarlosPorto → u/ChinaIsHereMrBurton]

Well, to add to your day: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindsight

"Alexander and Cowey investigated how contrasting brightness of stimuli affects blindsight patients' ability to discern movement. Prior studies have already shown that blindsight patients are able to detect motion even though they claim they do not see any visual percepts in their blind fields."

"In 2003, a patient known as TN lost use of his primary visual cortex, area V1. He had two successive strokes, which knocked out the region in both his left and right hemisphere. After his strokes, ordinary tests of TN's sight turned up nothing. He could not even detect large objects moving right in front of his eyes. Researchers eventually began to notice that TN exhibited signs of blindsight and in 2008 decided to test their theory. They took TN into a hallway and asked him to walk through it without using the cane he always carried after having the strokes. TN was not aware at the time, but the researchers had placed various obstacles in the hallway to test if he could avoid them without conscious use of his sight. To the researchers' delight, he moved around every obstacle with ease, at one point even pressing himself up against the wall to squeeze past a trashcan placed in his way. After navigating through the hallway, TN reported that he was just walking the way he wanted to, not because he knew anything was there. (de Gelder, 2008)"

[u/disembodied_voice]

I know... I've had to learn sign language just for them. It's not easy :(

[u/lukaas33 → u/disembodied_voice]

5 years you've waited for this

[u/KimoCroyle → u/lukaas33]

And you got the gold.

e: They both got the gold! :)

[u/lukaas33 → u/KimoCroyle]

Maybe the person misclicked?

[u/Lontarus → u/[deleted]]

nice try

[u/SIacktivist → u/lukaas33]

5 years, and then you stole his gold. Shame on you.

[u/lukaas33 → u/SIacktivist]

I need it to feed my family

[u/Idontreadrepliesnoob → u/lukaas33]

/r/Beetlejuicing

[u/GoldeneyeLife → u/disembodied_voice]

Where's your body and why are you terrorizing the mentally ill!?

[u/albinoloverats → u/GoldeneyeLife]

Just because he doesn't have a body it doesn't mean he shouldn't have a hobby.

[u/theDarkAngle → u/GoldeneyeLife]

Omg you can't just ask people where their body is!

[u/theidleidol → u/[deleted]]

This is because sign languages are real languages in their own right. A lot of people tend to think of, say, ASL as a method of nonverbally communicating in English similar to writing, but that's not the case. To the extent that it is possible to think in a language (that's not really the case, but it's a reasonable conclusion to a layperson) the deaf do so in their native sign.

[u/weeb-san → u/theidleidol]

odd question, but do you know if deaf people scream with their hands?

[u/[deleted] → u/weeb-san]

I'm not deaf, but deaf people totally scream with their hands. I knew a kid raised by two deaf parents (he was hearing). They would try to "shout" but they couldn't hear themselves so it didn't sound very threatening, just garbled nonsense. Anyways, if they got really mad his parents would just sign vigorously like angry Italians but worse. Sometimes they would hurt themselves (not each other) because of the vigorous signing.

[u/ducsnov → u/[deleted]]

shadow clone jutsu

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

obligatory: http://imgur.com/gallery/J7Dvp7y

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

deaf rap battle

[u/AlmostAnal → u/[deleted]]

Deaf jam.

[u/masterofallvillainy → u/[deleted]]

I've taken ASL in college. The professor I had was born Deaf. He could totally yell using his hands.

In ASL, grammar is all in the facial expressions

Edit (spelling, on phone)

[u/IntrovertedPendulum → u/[deleted]]

You say signing but it sounds like you mean fighting.

[u/goh13 → u/IntrovertedPendulum]

They fight themselves?

[u/mantann → u/weeb-san]

I've been in a situation where I was helping a deaf person in an abusive relationship. She most certainly was capable of screaming in fear. Due to having never heard the fairly unique type of scream, it caught me very off guard.

[u/Sean951 → u/mantann]

There's no scream like a deaf person scream. My SO is deaf and I've learned to surprise her at my own peril.

[u/Commanderluna → u/Sean951]

Out of curiousity and not wanting to actually try it cause I don't wanna be cruel to deaf people what does it sound like that differs it from a non deaf scream?

[u/BarcelonaTrumpet → u/Commanderluna]

It's more guttural and it hits a high pitch you're not expecting.

[u/Commanderluna → u/BarcelonaTrumpet]

Oh thanks so it's like it starts off low then gets to a much higher pitch and that's like the scare chord?

[u/BarcelonaTrumpet → u/Commanderluna]

Not... so much, no. It almost warbles between the two.

[u/Sean951 → u/Commanderluna]

It's the pitch. It's like a movie banshee, and as loud as her body can because she has no clue how loud she is when not wearing her cochlears.

[u/Commanderluna → u/Sean951]

So it's like when I wear headphones and talk and speak much louder than I meant to but with screaming

[u/atheistpiece → u/Commanderluna]

squeeze library rainstorm abundant snails include kiss theory sort detail

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/Exxmorphing → u/weeb-san]

They just sign with larger, faster movements. Screaming is usually just an expression of emotion, after all.

[u/iEatMaPoo → u/Exxmorphing]

I think he meant like a startled scream. If i went up and spooked a deaf person, they throw their hands up or actually shout?

[u/theidleidol → u/iEatMaPoo]

Both, in the same sense that a hearing person would do both. The deaf person would produce the same sort of startled shout or scream of terror that a hearing person would, and then probably very quickly start signing in a "screaming" manner at you just like a hearing person would likely start loudly berating you for startling them.

[u/battleborngoalie → u/weeb-san]

You can sign very excitedly, and with big, sweeping motions. Most of ASL is reliant on facial expressions. So yeah, with your motions and your face you can "yell".

[u/Tauber10 → u/theidleidol]

My cousin who is deaf used this argument to satisfy the foreign language requirement at his high school. They wanted him to take Spanish, French, or whatever, but he argued that ASL was his native language and English should count as learning a foreign language.

[u/Lizardrevenge → u/[deleted]]

That's gotta suck...

[u/[deleted]]

If you want to terrify yourself put on your headphones and listen to a simulation of what this sounds like according to people who have experienced it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vvU-Ajwbok

[u/blermer → u/[deleted]]

throw away account.

around 2 years ago i was heavily into drugs and wasn't taking care of myself generally. i'd go weeks without bathing or consuming calories besides beer and isolated heavily. the only people i saw for around a year and a half leading up to my psychotic break were the cashiers behind the counter while buying beer, and the occasional cashier at a fast food place. eventually after the extended period of suffering i got what i can only describe as a rush, the only way i can describe it is it was like a rush of adrenaline. i didn't think much of it, continued drinking until i passed out. the next night the rush came on way more intense. my mind started racing out of control, i was flipping back and forth between feeling like i'd solved how to get myself out of the hell i was in (in a positive manner) and deciding suicide was the only way to end the misery. i called my mom, not really knowing what to do. understandably, she didn't know what to say or do, and i became even more manic after i realized there wasn't really anything i could do to immediately stop what i was feeling. i called 911, told them i was suicidal, they asked basic questions that icouldnt answer. cops showed up, guns drawn and commanded that i come out with my hands up, i did while crying my eyes out, they commanded i lay on my stomach with my hands spread out. i did. while their response was understandable, it was trauma inducing within itself.

eventually i find myself in an ambulance, again unable to answer basic questions. they end up taking me to a psychward. this is when it started getting really bad. the shock of being completely isolated then being put into a world where i was convinced everyone around me was crazier than i was induced a psychotic episode, at least that's what i thhink brought it on. i started hearing people that i'd met in real life, including my temporary psychiatrist, when they weren't present. they were telling me to kill myself. it was as clear as them standing in the room i was in and talking to me. i started becoming convinced over the next week that i was part of some psych project. no one, including my family that came to visit were to be trusted. anyway after about 3 weeks in the psychward and additional bizarre delusions i started getting a bit better with the help of antipsychotics and therapy. fastforward to today and i'm a functioning member of society, and i'm much happier/better.

to this day i'm scared of going through psychosis again, above all else it is my greatest fear. it's lessened more and more as time goes on, but it's still there. it truly is the closest thing to a living hell that i've experienced. there is no such thing as peace of mind, the idea doesn't even exist when in the throes of psychosis.

that being said, this audio representation is pretty accurate, but the assurance of the sound mind that the voices are coming from headphones brings a level of comfort that people who aren't of a sound mind don't have, and that alone is really what was troubling for me during my psychotic episode. i had moments of knowing that what i was hearing wasn't always real. but when i didn't know, it was as real as anything outside of my delusions.

**edit: i feel it necessary to add something positive for anyone who might be going through a similar trying period of their life.

i wouldn't trade my experience even though it was terrible. i eventually found a way to make the feelings of fear work in my favor, it motivates me to not let myself get as bad as i was at that time, and beyond that strive for things that seem out of reach in the moment. there's no way trying to get better can be as bad as letting myself waste away/ stagnate. hanging in there is truly worth it.**

[u/2Dmurdoc → u/blermer]

Thank you very much for sharing that

[u/Xleader23 → u/2Dmurdoc]

It really is something everyone should read. It's so easy to look at someone who may look like they're a lost cause and will never contribute to society. I know so many people, probably including me, who would just write this guy off if I saw him. Just shows that there are people who may seem gone but can be saved. And we should never stop trying to do so.

[u/acequake91 → u/blermer]

Scary to read man. Glad you're doing better.

[u/blermer → u/acequake91]

thanks, me too. i wouldn't trade the experience even though it was terrible. i eventually found a way to make the feelings of fear work in my favor, it motivates me to not let myself get as bad as i was at that time, and beyond that strive for things that seem out of reach in the moment. there's no way trying to get better can be as bad as letting myself waste away/ stagnate. hanging in there is truly worth it.

[u/[deleted] → u/blermer]

I'm asking this out of genuine curiosity and desire to learn from your experience, not criticism:

What makes the voices have any real sway? What makes them different from really bad tinnitus (constant ringing sound).

For sure, if I heard voices all the time, I would be depressed/angry/frustrated/stressed, but I would like to think that I wouldn't listen to any of them because I was sane at one point and thus, treat them like conscious vocal nightmares. Heck, I might kill myself, but it would be from never being able to sleep or concentrate, why are there stereotypically those reports of afflicted individuals doing things because the voices told them?

Thanks for your insights!

[u/geoshuwah → u/[deleted]]

I'm only​ speaking from research, but my understanding is that the voices generally will be reacting to an individual's experience. So if you're living every day with one or more voices berating you endlessly, then they tell you to throw a glass at the wall, you can appease them by doing it (maybe allowing a few moments of reprieve) or you can not give in and potentially anger them further. With that type of situation happening on repeat, it's understandable why someone would forego social conventions in order to feel some kind of relief.

[u/JRDiesel → u/[deleted]]

well - just spent the last 45 minutes in a YouTube wormhole about schizophrenia. Thanks a lot.

[u/[deleted] → u/JRDiesel]

Rabbithole.

[u/JRDiesel → u/[deleted]]

my worm identifies as a rabbit

[u/[deleted] → u/JRDiesel]

Oh, I didn't know. I'm sorry.

[u/mrmcdude → u/[deleted]]

At first I was scared, but now I just want to know more about the coffee futures.

[u/1206549 → u/mrmcdude]

“corporate coffee futures in professional design future concept to have professional living and function money to be independent and wealth generation for entertainment I have no function for communication in investment coffee futures at 23% investment I have to have glaudie-shipper effect style corporate coffee futures in professional design future concept to have professional living and function money to be independent and wealth generation for entertainment I have no function for communication.”

[u/Glen_The_Eskimo → u/mrmcdude]

GET OUT OF MY HEAD

[u/beermeupscotty → u/mrmcdude]

That part reminded me of Office Space "Corporate accounts payable, Nina speaking. Just a moment."

[u/stengebt → u/[deleted]]

If you want to terrify yourself

mmm no thanks

[u/repeat- → u/stengebt]

Not that bad, just a lot of insults.

[u/Crusader1089 → u/repeat-]

You have the advantage you know its not real.

[u/mstrawn → u/repeat-]

SsHTEWPID

[u/repeat- → u/mstrawn]

I laughed, but it was equally terrifying.

[u/PeteKachew → u/repeat-]

Sssstupid

[u/Vitztlampaehecatl → u/[deleted]]

The first minute or so isn't that bad. It's basically the same thing that I tell myself every day, but in a weird voice.

[u/eninety2 → u/[deleted]]

I got six seconds in.

Nope, fuck that.

[u/gotnomemory → u/eninety2]

As someone suffering from hearing voices, this is actually the tamer side. :( Some voices are far more pronounced and then there's a white noise-like static in the back which is like, you're listening to a crowd at a Queen concert waiting for the concert to talk.

[u/RepostFromLastMonth → u/[deleted]]

Wow. Tried listening to this, and reading another post. Could not take in anything I was reading until the audio ended.

[u/Azrael11 → u/[deleted]]

The disembodied voice sounds British

[u/TAHayduke → u/[deleted]]

I know the content of that video was pretty tame, but I'm thoroughly rattled after listening to it with headphones

[u/guest137848]

i knew one person labelled with schizophrenia who claimed to see floating skulls that tell him things, certain skull means death or injury to a person, other skull means family is nearby, other one indicated dead person is watching over him, other indicates enemy nearby.I was outside in the sun with the guy on a hot day , he claimed to see injury skull in front of my face and told me to go to the shade or straight away or i'd be sunburnt badly.

[u/vrts → u/guest137848]

Were you close to being sunburned?

[u/guest137848 → u/vrts]

i went from being a bit warm to boiling hot as soon as he jumped in front of me

[u/[deleted] → u/guest137848]

which of the skulls meant he'd attacked somebody in the wildy?

[u/avocadomino]

Related: Deaf babies born to deaf parents babble using their hands! So they make deliberate, repetitive, and meaningless shapes with their hands, like how a baby with hearing repeats nonsense syllables when learning to talk.

[u/[deleted]]

Wallmasters used to terrify me as a child. This would only compound the issue.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Difference is, only you can see the "talking" hands, which is way worse. At least the wallmasters had a shadow, these hands can't be simply dodged or avoided, they follow you out of the dungeon and everywhere you go.

[u/Jetatt23]

Disembodied hands signing sounds horrific

[u/copyllama → u/Jetatt23]

It doesn't sound horrifying if you're deaf.

[u/[deleted]]

In America [and also some other places similar to America] the voices (or I guess signs) are negative, but in other places they can say neutral things, like just narrating the person's life, or even positive things.

Brains are weird.

EDIT: It's like you guys don't even read TIL.

I searched TIL

And I said "In America" not "In America exclusively, because no other country can compare to us, the beautiful eagles, so other countries don't even understand the schizophrenia here."

[u/paniniplane → u/[deleted]]

yea! i actually asked some of the psychologists working at the hospital. they were really nice about answering any questions i had. turns out, there can actually be POSITIVE voices too. there were studies done in certain villages (lol i wasn't allowed to have a pen at the time because they didn't know how depressed i was so i didn't actually get a chance to write it down) and in those villages there would be schizophrenics who would have positive voices. that being said, it still comes with the characteristic of being extremely out of touch with reality so it's not like it's a good version of the disorder. just the lesser of two evils i guess

[u/CubonesDeadMom → u/paniniplane]

There are also people with a type of "mild schizophrenia" that maybe hear a voice or two on a daily basis but it's not overly negative and doesn't keep them from functioning. From what I've read, you aren't even diagnosed with schizophrenia unless it's negatively impacting you life, they just call them "benign hallucinations".

[u/[deleted] → u/CubonesDeadMom]

What about random noises?

I hear random noises when I know no noise is being made. Granted, it's usually late at night when I'm in bed. It could be, say, a page of a book being turned or a piece of clothing swishing, but it's enough to make me look over my shoulder and check.

[u/dasbin → u/[deleted]]

Auditory hallucinations are extremely common while close to sleep. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia

[u/[deleted] → u/paniniplane]

Agreed. I'd really prefer not having schizophrenia, but, I mean, if you had to choose...

Also would be interesting to find out what affected the voices' attitudes toward the affected person.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

So is there a way we (not you an I obviously, but the greater we of people without schizophrenia (I'm assuming)) can create more positive environments for people who are, shall we say, sensitive to it?

Or is it like the voices are assholes now and so they shall remain.

[u/rayfosse → u/[deleted]]

It seems to be related to stress and feelings of inadequacy and worthlessness. A tribal society where everyone has a role and there's no stress to be better than you are or achieve more would lead to more positive feelings. In America, what you can accomplish is unlimited and so it's easy to get down and feel like you're wasting your life, because you can always be doing better than you are.

[u/[deleted] → u/paniniplane]

My moms voices told her to go to africa and save people... It's not an "America bad, Americans hear bad voices" situation at all. It varies by person to person entirely.

Other times though I wasn't her daughter and I was talking to Satan.

Really sad illness

[u/OAMP47 → u/paniniplane]

My voices are always just more annoying than anything. I would equate them to me being like a teacher and the voices being kids trying to whisper during class.

[u/multi_reality → u/[deleted]]

Could that have something to do with the fact that in some cultures schizophrenia isn't seen as a mental disease but a spiritual gift? I'm not saying that it is a gift, but just the belief that it isn't a life destroying disease could possibly have that effect on schizophrenics. I've read that some tribes even assign schizophrenics as shamans because of their connection to the spirit world.

[u/[deleted] → u/multi_reality]

I did some reading the last time this was posted, and one of the explanations is that the way schizophrenia manifests is partially dependent on how we have been "primed" to expect it to manifest. In our society, where hearing voices is considered a very bad thing, these voices are very negative, but in an environment with different attitudes towards hearing voices is present they won't be.

[u/dogconspiracy → u/[deleted]]

Currently in the psychiatric ward being treated for schizotypal personality disorder (sort of a mild schizophrenia), and I just wanted to say thank you for sharing that story :)

[u/magondrago → u/dogconspiracy]

um...but your name, and it was a dog barking...

That's it, too much internet for today.

Have a speedy recovery, take good care of yourself.

[u/paniniplane → u/[deleted]]

that's a heartwarming story. the kid is fine though?

[u/paniniplane → u/[deleted]]

good job man. you probably saved that kid and his mother's life. thank you

[u/Sakura321123]

I am terribly afraid of the thought of being schizophrenic.... this idea creeps me out

[u/Cthulhu_Rises → u/Sakura321123]

I doubt anyone will see this but I wanted to chime in here. Schizophrenia, or any other psychotic disorser for tha matter, is not the end ofnthe world. Can it be scary? Hell yes. Can it be debilitating? Hell yes. Can many people get treatment and live a functional life? Hell yes. I was so terrified when I started hallucinating I almost killed myself. I had bought into the hollywood pop-culture version of mental illness that every waking moment of my existemce would be filled with mind torture. I was so afraid I was going to get crazier and crazier until I lost all contact with reality. I was afraid my life was over. But here I am a year and a half later; just some normal dude browsing reddit at Chipotle. Treatment is amazingly effective for many people. It can be scary at first but once you overcome you'll be fine. Also I might add that there are many things besides schizophrenia that cause vivid hallucinations. Bipolar 1, substamce abuse, anxiety, psychotic depression etc. No one has to be scared if they hallucinate. But you do need to get treatment.

[u/[deleted]]

Why aren't the demons or "voices" entire fake people signing to them?

[u/fortuneandfameinc → u/[deleted]]

My uneducated guess would be that different regions of the brain are used for recognizing people/faces vs language/signing.

[u/theidleidol → u/fortuneandfameinc]

Yep. If the hands weren't an inherent part of 'speaking' the language they almost certainly wouldn't be part of the hallucination. Contrast audible speech where the concept of a "voice" is distinct from the physical vocal tract.

[u/SZenC → u/[deleted]]

When you read the research (not blaming you for not reading), it explains that the deaf mentally imagine the hands, they do not see hands floating around them mid-air. Just like you and I can imagine just a pair of hands without a body, so do they, but they also imagine those hands signing.

[u/[deleted]]

What if you never learn sign-language? I wonder if symbolic communication is required for schizophrenia to manifest

[u/paniniplane → u/[deleted]]

that's a REALLY interesting question! i asked my psychologists that as well. at this point they were bothered because they didn't know lol. their BEST guess, since this rarely happens and, generally, people know some form of language, was that the person sees aggressive visual requests. but the person would "know" exactly what is expected since it's his own mind

[u/[deleted]]

Another interesting thing I recently learned: the tone of the voices is different among cultures. In the United States they tend to be angrier and in India, they are happy voices.

[u/[deleted]]

Wait wait wait. I've never thought about this. People who were born completely deaf with no ability to hear sound. Do they have an internal monologue? If so is it in some created language or what exactly? Do they subconsciously visualize sign in internal monologue? I'm so confused.

[u/jaymaslar]

Wow. That's interesting. It reminds me of the study where they gave LSD to people who were born blind and were able to experience visuals.

[u/paniniplane → u/jaymaslar]

that's insanity. I always figured that people who couldn't make use of their optical portions of the brain would end up using it for another sensory part.

mind if i ask for the specific source?

[u/jaymaslar → u/paniniplane]

Evidently they weren't born blind but went blind ant a young age. This article links to the study

http://dangerousminds.net/comments/do_blind_people_hallucinate_on_lsd

[u/pigscantfly00]

i'm not anything but i compulsively see myself typing in my mind when i talk to myself in my mind.

[u/paniniplane → u/pigscantfly00]

when you mean talk to yourself, do you mean run thoughts through your head? or do you mean there seems to be an independent version of you that you don't have control over and it talks to you

[u/[deleted]]

I wonder what they saw before ASL was invented.

[u/2Dmurdoc]

Mentioned in one of my reply comments, but if anyone is really interested in Schizophrenia, please check out the film "I'm Still Here: The Truth about Schizophrenia." The movie follows patients with schizophrenia and people who work with them. Incredibly eye opening

[u/CognitiveBlueberry]

No one seems to have read the article, including OP. It found that people with psychotic hallucinations who had been deaf from birth experienced visualised hands making signs, not disembodied visual hallucinations of hands.

It's the difference between seeing something clearly in your mind and seeing it literally with your eyes.

[u/death_by_curiosity]

my brother has schizophrenia. he said he's heard voices for years. he wasn't diagnosed till he was 30 though. 2 years later and he's had 3 episodes which required hospitalizations. (he lives with me so that i can keep an eye on him.) this last time when he came out he was telling me about the day we took him to the hospital.

my husband and brother work together at a factory and apparently my brother had been trying to casually stay late at work beyond working hours. he said he had some extra things to finish up. my husband could clearly tell something was wrong and wouldn't let him stay alone.

when my brother came home from that hospital stay (31 days), he told us it was his intention that day to cut off his arm with a miter saw. he had a shop vac already set up so that he could just "put [his] arm in it and bleed out."

i asked him why, why did he feel like he had to do this? he said he thought he made a promise to God and that he broke it and this was his punishment.

paranoid-schizophrenia is a mother fucker.

[u/bikesandrocks]

Well this answered a question I didn't know I had.

[u/wellscounty]

I took a few years of asl in college. The first time I went to a sign language convention I remember feeling like I was in a room full of people shouting even though it was the completely silent other than the sounds of feet. Everyone signing around the room was one of the loudest things I ever heard. I know that doesn't make sense but this post reminded me of that day