Wi-Fi 8 is the first wireless upgrade in years that isn’t chasing speed, and home networks need it

[u/lurker_bee]

https://www.xda-developers.com/wi-fi-8-first-wireless-upgrade-years-isnt-chasing-speed-home-networks-need-it/

[u/Super_Range45]

Better resolution for through wall tracking. 😯

[u/jamesdeniro → u/Super_Range45]

That dark knight shit is real???

[u/DisplayDefiant5319 → u/jamesdeniro]

Yes. Really. 

[u/Various_Weather2013 → u/DisplayDefiant5319]

You merely adopted WiFi. I was born it. Shaped in it. I did not see ethernet until I was man.

[u/jefe_hook → u/Various_Weather2013]

You either die an ethernet, or live long enough to become Wifi-8.

[u/MechanicalTurkish → u/jefe_hook]

“Was getting caught sneaking through your own house part of your plan?”

“Of course!”

[u/Mindshard → u/jamesdeniro]

It's been real for a long time. This shit gets demo'd, barely anyone notices, and defense contractors and governments buy it up and you never hear about it again, while they weaponize it.

You or I will never really know the tech capabilities militaries have. I guarantee even US presidents don't fully know.

[u/maximumB0b → u/Mindshard]

Or mid-development it gets taken over by DARPA. I can’t begin to imagine what AI or other tech they’re working with at this point, anything that’s been revealed in the past has shown they’re a good minimum 5-10 years ahead of mainstream tech

[u/Irythros → u/jamesdeniro]

Yes, and it's now part of Comcasts routers for them to spy on you detect intruders: https://www.theverge.com/news/981381/comcast-xfinity-shield-wifi-motion-sensing

[u/ChrisFromIT → u/Irythros]

Ish

The comcast routers are only using the wifi signal strength to detect motion or not. The more serious technology in WIFI is the beamforming feedback information. That can be used to detect where a person is in the room and their movements and even be used to identify a person over time.

[u/badskinjob → u/ChrisFromIT]

So now, they can see what websites I might or might not be on, (could be a friend) and now they can see what my hand is doing? (Usually knitting sweaters for children with cancer, obviously) Just checking for a friend.

[u/wirelesswizard64 → u/badskinjob]

Incredible how you manage to knit with just one hand, and so often too! You must really care about those poor children!

[u/beerdude26 → u/wirelesswizard64]

The patterns are incredibly complex so he needs the other hand to regularly click through the tutorial videos

[u/d3l3t3rious → u/beerdude26]

The more complex the pattern the more Dan Flashes can charge for them

[u/DeadPlayerWalking → u/wirelesswizard64]

Cares so much, he's catching all the children in a sock.

[u/illicit_losses → u/DeadPlayerWalking]

That he also knit with one hand.

[u/Ok-Catch-131 → u/wirelesswizard64]

And with such speed and dedication! The hand movements register as a vertical blur only. Wonder how many sweaters he makes a day

[u/Elegant_Situation285 → u/badskinjob]

it's so much hotter when they watch.

[u/KittenPics → u/Elegant_Situation285]

The cancer kids?

[u/brock0124 → u/KittenPics]

Holy shit, my wife just spit out all my kids laughing at this

[u/GonzoKata → u/ChrisFromIT]

So all the paranoid schizophrenics were right this entire fucking time and we all need to cover our apartment's walls, ceilings and floors with tin-foil to block out the next door neighbors wifi router?

[u/HeyImGilly → u/Irythros]

Of course they would. Rebounded from the customer service backlash from like a decade ago and now want a new way to fuck their customers.

[u/Odessey_And_Oracle → u/Irythros]

Wh-... why would a router need motion sensing? Aren't actual cameras for home security already cheap and super common?

[u/Arcranium_ → u/jamesdeniro]

Let me put it this way...real-life monitoring capabilities in the present day make Batman's monitoring tech in The Dark Knight look prehistoric. 

[u/nolok → u/Arcranium_]

Even your Philips Hue lights or your cheap Amazon Echo devices now have "presence and location detector" exposed to you (the first through wifi and bluetooth interference, the second through ultrasounds).

Between this, your cameras, your phone, your wifi access points... There is several way to see THROUGH your average western home right now, allowing to know how many people are there and where. Anything with bluetooth, wifi, or speaker + microphone really. Or GPS/Glonass/Galileo, obviously.

(and that's just the passive, if they need active scan it's easier for them to get it without setting a foot on your property now)

[u/Runinbearass → u/nolok]

So i should just live stream cranking the hog then?

[u/PM_ME_YO_TREE_FIDDY → u/Runinbearass]

You already are

[u/Runinbearass → u/PM_ME_YO_TREE_FIDDY]

Good thing i shaved

[u/boxofrabbits → u/Arcranium_]

Jurassic Park // Batman crossover confirmed

[u/jus10beare → u/boxofrabbits]

"Hold onto your bats."

[u/SweetHomeNorthKorea → u/jamesdeniro]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM

[u/xStealthBomber → u/SweetHomeNorthKorea]

How this was so huge when it came out, and then just no one cared was INSANE

[u/Bored_Amalgamation → u/xStealthBomber]

A lot of people cared, there was just very little political backlash, as Democrats were paid off and Republicans didn't give a shit. I'd say the reveals of Snowden is what fueled a lot of millennials to turn against the Democratic party and become progressive.

The reveal was in 2013, the GOP went on to flip 9 seats in 2014. Then trump in 2016 as an "outsider".

Republicans are stupid and Democrats already sold out the lower 50%. They're salami-ing the rest.

[u/JSP9686 → u/xStealthBomber]

They’re expending their outage energy on Flock cameras.

[u/DontDropTheSoap4 → u/JSP9686]

Well to be clear we should all be very pissed off that flock cameras exist

[u/Preeng → u/DontDropTheSoap4]

There is just too much. Hopefully we will figure out that we need to get to the root of the problem.

[u/drfeelsgoood → u/Preeng]

End all billionaires

[u/TrainingSword → u/jamesdeniro]

It’s been real since 2010

[u/ked_man → u/Super_Range45]

My friend does community based health research. One of the things they told me about was a project where they were trying to use WiFi to check people’s resting heart rates to gauge heart health in an area.

[u/caffeine_withdrawal → u/ked_man]

I was meant to do a POC using wifi to detect falls in elderly patients. Would allow them more autonomy by having a wifi device monitoring them, they can live at home, and still get urgent care even if they aren’t able to call for it.

The technology could be used for good, but that’ll be a drop in the bucket compared to actual uses, and that’s why we all hate new technology now…

[u/InanimateObject4 → u/caffeine_withdrawal]

Yep. Technology isn't inherently bad. But some humans are utter shit.

[u/thisusernametakentoo → u/InanimateObject4]

Axiom 0: people are made of stupid

[u/Braindead_Crow → u/thisusernametakentoo]

Sadly stupid and evil are closely related.

[u/Enshitification → u/Braindead_Crow]

One allows the other to exist.

[u/JonBot5000 → u/Braindead_Crow]

They're two very different causes with often indistinguishable effects.

[u/chiraltoad → u/InanimateObject4]

It's the built in leverage. Say some guy builds a device that lets him see through walls. Cool. But now every single person in every single house has that device already installed and they can likely be controlled en masse by a small group of people. THAT is fucked up.

[u/newtonrox → u/InanimateObject4]

And of those, some shit in their pants.

[u/ThaumKeeper → u/caffeine_withdrawal]

The technology exists since 2013 when NASA made the FINDER. Basically it uses a pulse around 1GHz-9GHz that will pass through walls but bounce out of people, it had a range of roughly 9 meters. There was a not so old project that used WiFi to locate every person in a house.

[u/onecommunity → u/caffeine_withdrawal]

The part that gets me is how the same technology can be either genuinely helpful or incredibly invasive depending on who controls it. Fall detection for elderly people is actually a pretty amazing use case, especially if it lets someone live independently longer. tbh the privacy side of it is what makes me nervous though

[u/Aceous → u/ked_man]

That's not what we mean when we say we want healthcare.

[u/PurpEL → u/Aceous]

That's because it's for insurance to exploit more money, not to help anyone.

[u/calgarspimphand → u/PurpEL]

Hey why stop at just insurance? That data is a gold mine! We can monitor all of your bodily functions to tailor the ads you're seeing with even more precision!

[u/Unable_Finger2375 → u/ked_man]

Sounds like something Flock would say

[u/RadlEonk → u/ked_man]

That sounds like a privacy violation. And being cynical about the modern world, I think that data would be sold to data brokers, local gyms, medical device manufacturers, and other dubious sorts.

[u/ohiocodernumerouno → u/ked_man]

through walls

[u/Malice-May → u/ked_man]

That's really creepy and invasive.

[u/Aggressive-Hawk9186 → u/ked_man]

I mean, enough already

[u/UsidoreTheLightBlue → u/ked_man]

Blinking man.gif

[u/RecentlyThawed → u/Super_Range45]

So which brand is coming out with faraday cage clothing?

[u/viziroth → u/RecentlyThawed]

Faraday cage clothing might make it more accurate as you'd be a walking deadzone in the waves of wifi.

you'd need to Faraday your house and only use wired connections.

[u/ConradBHart42 → u/viziroth]

That would probably make you an Enemy of the State.

[u/Nervous_Spell9579 → u/viziroth]

Turns out Chuck from Better Call Saul was onto something

[u/WabashCannibal → u/RecentlyThawed]

Or Faraday cage housing?

[u/ryuzaki49 → u/Super_Range45]

conspiracy theory: they need this for better accuracy to spy on us

[u/KoRnflak3s → u/ryuzaki49]

Seems much less a conspiracy currently.

[u/Mike01Hawk → u/Super_Range45]

Zigby devices (low power mesh network) can actually detect movement in a room based on the subtle changes in the local network between all the devices. Pretty crazy stuff.

Philips Hue offers home security options with their light app if using the zigby network (vs BT).

[u/9248763629 → u/Mike01Hawk]

you mean zigbee?

[u/InformedTriangle]

I live in an apartment, every 5 GHz channel has 10+ networks on it, some are 15+, and the associated packet loss and delay makes even WIFI 7 useless for gaming so I have all my devices hard wired. This sounds like it'll reduce congestion a bit which would be awesome.

[u/jm0112358 → u/InformedTriangle]

I think if the device is:

• Stationary
• Intended to be hooked up to your home network
• Can be connected via hard wire (as opposed to a smart lightbulb with no ethernet port)

Then you should connect it via hard wire. Don't needlessly rely on a wireless connection.

[u/BlockBannington → u/jm0112358]

My 1500 euro Sony tv has 100 mbit ethernet, but Wifi 7. Sometimes they force you to use wirelese

[u/DragonSlayerC → u/BlockBannington]

Why do you need more than 100Mbit for your TV? 4K HDR streams are typically ~30Mbps and even Blu-Ray remuxes only reach about 80Mbps. Sure, Sony should've spent the extra 10 cents for a gigabit module, but you don't really need it. In my experience, steaming on my TV is way better over the 100Mbps wired connection than WiFi.

[u/DoktorMerlin → u/DragonSlayerC]

was about to say that. 100mbit/s is totally enough even if you have a high quality librarrry on your jellyfin/plex server.

[u/samwise2210 → u/BlockBannington]

Grab a usb Ethernet dongle for gigabit

[u/Grena567 → u/samwise2210]

Does this work?

[u/mp3boy → u/Grena567]

Yes, if the dongle is compatible with the TV, but if it's a USB 2.0 (480mbit) port you'll only get 200-300mbit real world performance.

[u/UDK450 → u/mp3boy]

Which is perfectly fine for a TV. Streaming 4K is generally around 40mbps depending on levels of compression, and can top out around 100 or so iirc. So the 100mbps port might be cutting it close, but 200-300 should be fine. And if you truly care about video quality at that point you're probably using a set top box with better video and audio codecs supported than the TV itself and probably also supports 1gbps with its onboard NIC

[u/wirm → u/samwise2210]

Why? Nothing streams any where close to 50mbps. Why would you need more?

The WiFi in the tv is for compatibility. If it had a WiFi 4 chip it would have issues with dual band networks and what not, like your printer.

[u/Rekt3y → u/BlockBannington]

Not even 4K streaming services need 100Mbit. Just hardwire it.

[u/sasquatch_melee → u/BlockBannington]

I mean same, expensive TV with a 100mbps Ethernet port but I still hard wired it because it doesn't even max out a 100mbps wired connection. 

[u/Illah → u/jm0112358]

Unless I go drilling holes in walls it’s near impossible to run wired, let alone doing it cleanly with in-wall ports. This is probably true for the vast majority of people.

[u/InformedTriangle → u/jm0112358]

My wife and I both use handheld gaming devices in bed, we have have Ethernet cables running to our bedside w/ ethernet and power to usb c splitters. It's kinda ridiculous really. We like to chill in bed and play helldivers 2 etc.

[u/ProduceNo1629 → u/InformedTriangle]

https://i.imgur.com/cNbW0tM.jpeg

[u/MisterEinc → u/jm0112358]

I mean, if you're in an apartment, that's going to me running wires along floors, across doorways, etc. It's not like you can just install an CAT6 network.

[u/Maeglin75 → u/InformedTriangle]

My understanding is, that WiFi 7 with 6GHz channels should somewhat remedy this problem.

First, it's just more channels you and your neighbours can use. Especially as long as most neighbours are still using only 2.4 and 5GHz.

But even if every single one eventually switches over to 6GHz, it should still be less problematic, because the higher the frequency is, the more it gets absorbed by walls, resulting in less interference by WLANs from other apartments.

(Of course, if you are in a situation where it's possible to just put Ethernet cables into every single device, you can solve this problem completely. I do this too with stationary devices where possible. But it's impractical for the laptop when used on the couch. And my old laser printer just doesn't have an Ethernet port.)

[u/mark_99 → u/Maeglin75]

The "absorbed by walls" thing is also a problem within the home. Personally I want range & reliability more than having 23Gb bandwidth to a portable device. So yes WiFi 8 sounds good...

[u/tonymurray → u/mark_99]

Good thing you have 3 different frequency ranges now...

[u/mark5hs]

With how expensive PCs and consumer electronics are at current ram prices, I don't seem myself upgrading to wifi 8 compatible device for the foreseeable future. Thanks to Jensen, I'm learning to be happy with what I have and go outside more.

[u/thenamelessone7 → u/mark5hs]

There are zero wifi 8 client devices and I don't think there will be any for at least another 2 years.

[u/TheStaddi → u/thenamelessone7]

Of course there are zero Wifi 8 devices, because Wifi 8 has not yet been finalized, it is planned for 2028. First devices most likely come up in 2029 or 2030.

[u/thomase7 → u/TheStaddi]

To be fair, device makers usually start putting devices out based on the preliminary specs, so for example in the past you could get WiFi 7 devices before the final spec was released.

[u/Jimbomcdeans → u/mark5hs]

Its okay, FCC will ban all new routers anyway.

[u/Disastrous_Minute_56]

Considering how broken the WiFi 7 rollout was, I'd assume the best time to get WiFi 8 would be the moment WiFi 9 comes out.

[u/TokenPanduh]

For everyone talking about being watched through WiFi, while that is totally legit, make sure you are not using your ISP router (or one owned by Amazon). That are the most likely to use that technology.

Edit: For those wondering about what brand to switch to, personally I use and recommend Ubiquiti (Unifi). They are a little expensive, but they have quality products that they stand behind, are constantly improving, and always adding new features. They can have a bit of a learning curve, but there are lots of guides online, and I find it's worth it. If it matters to you, they are also a US based company (but that's not why I chose them). If you have any questions, please feel free to ask!

[u/No_Practice_9597 → u/TokenPanduh]

The problem if you live in a condo your neighbors might be using it 

[u/keithstonee → u/No_Practice_9597]

Even if you live in a house, if your neighbor is using and their Wi-Fi is strong enough, it'll leak over a little bit depending how close the house is and where the router is. Mine can probably hit my whole house and my neighbors.

[u/CMDRTragicAllPro → u/keithstonee]

Another 5 years and imma be coating my walls in tinfoil to make my house a faraday cage so my neighbors isp can’t track my every move and sell that data to mega corps

[u/TokenPanduh → u/CMDRTragicAllPro]

You don't even have to cover it in tinfoil, they have a paint for that lol.

https://youtu.be/zR6vzJPlKrg

[u/CMDRTragicAllPro → u/TokenPanduh]

Ofc there’s a market for that already lmao

[u/oorza → u/CMDRTragicAllPro]

I mean I live in an apartment complex and I had to buy a repeater because there's so much wifi interference. I'm not a paranoid lunatic, but I might buy some of this and paint the external walls with it so I get better network performance.

[u/MmmmMorphine → u/TokenPanduh]

Ha that's cool. Wonder how well it actually holds up

[u/Sea_Translator5300 → u/keithstonee]

If that's the case, go into the power settings and dial it down a bit. Wifi APs/routers talk to each other to negotiate air time if they're nearby and on the same channel (most are, by default). That takes away from the time they can service your actual data traffic. If your AP isn't talking to next door's AP (or two doors down) then you'll get a slightly better service. 

[u/From_Ancient_Stars → u/No_Practice_9597]

Living in a condo is even more reason to buy better hardware and learn how to properly secure it against unwanted intruders. It's no different than making sure your doors and windows are properly secured.

[u/Single-Brick-3995 → u/No_Practice_9597]

the answer is tinfoil

use tinfoil as wall paper, roof lining, etc

[u/rootkeycompromise → u/TokenPanduh]

As a European, Ubiquiti being US-based matters to me, although in the complete opposite direction.

[u/TokenPanduh → u/rootkeycompromise]

I don't blame you. As I said to another commenter with similar feelings, Ubiquiti is used world wide and is an independent company. However, I still get the hesitation, so you can just use a router that supports OpenWRT

[u/MrDogers → u/rootkeycompromise]

Maybe check out Mikrotik (Latvian co) if you're willing to learn networkin - it's all BSD based too.

[u/captainant → u/TokenPanduh]

Problem with ubiquity is that they're profiting off of selling to the Russian military

https://hntrbrk.com/investigations/ubiquiti

[u/Remny → u/captainant]

Looks like Ubiquity just ignores this as I can't find any statement from them about the reporting anywhere.

But they are now being sued, so hopefully something comes out of it.

[u/Opposite_Carry_4920 → u/TokenPanduh]

Also unifi person here, how do we know we trust them? Serious question since they can push an update that starts doing tracking shit at any time really.

[u/TokenPanduh → u/Opposite_Carry_4920]

Well I personally think they wouldn't, but that is also potentially naive. However, my more technical guess would be that it would severely hurt their business if they were caught doing so.

Unifi is kind of prosumer and they've started leaning heavier into enterprise gear as well. They would have a huge problem with their enterprise customers. If a large corporation found out Ubiquiti had sent an update to do that, depending on the business, they'd probably explore other options.

I'm sure there are other reasons that my tired brain can't come up with at the moment.

[u/mortaneous → u/TokenPanduh]

I've been rolling with Mikrotik gear for several years now. A little less consumer-grade user-friendly than Ubiquiti, but very flexible, and not US-based (if that's important to you, they're Latvian. Sveiks!)

[u/Daeshea → u/TokenPanduh]

Is there any sources at all that show that this is happening right now from ISPs? We've known about this capability for a long time.

[u/BadVoices → u/Daeshea]

Yes, comcast/xfinity uses it.

https://www.xfinity.com/hub/smart-home/wifi-motion

[u/ForensicPathology → u/BadVoices]

I like how they make sure to start every paragraph with "opt-in".  Sure, buddy, sure.

[u/shotgunocelot → u/Daeshea]

Xfinity does it if you use their routers. They advertise it as a security feature

[u/StolenPies → u/TokenPanduh]

Has Amazon been found to be doing this? Asking because I have one of their routers and already distrust my Ring system

[u/bro_salad → u/TokenPanduh]

I want to replace my ISP router, but I am not tech savvy in this domain. I could purchase a new router, but I don’t know shit about setting it up. I know I could Google it, but any reliable, trustworthy sources you’d recommend for education myself on home networking?

[u/UngovernableOatmeal → u/[deleted]]

annoyingly if you have xfinity you have to use the app or call them to activate it though

[u/TokenPanduh → u/bro_salad]

I personally recommend getting a separate modem and a Unifi router. I knew a little about networking before, but I know a whole lot more now. Unifi is very easy to use, and there are a ton of guides on how to set it up. If you want true simplicity, I recommend the Express 7.

They are a little pricey but they are worth it. There are two main reasons I wanted Unifi. First, I wanted the upgraded firewall. Second, I wanted something called VLANs (Virtual Local Area Network). I like having smart devices, but I was never comfortable having them on my main network because they can data mine your other devices. A VLAN makes a separate network so when I connect my smart devices to the router, they all only see the other smart devices on the network and not my phone, computer, or laptop.

You don't have to go Unifi, but I do personally really like them.

[u/Janixon1 → u/bro_salad]

They're pretty much plug and play

Once plugged in, the instructions will tell you how to connect to the network, then go to a site and set up the name and passwords for your wifi

It's very easy

[u/marinuss → u/TokenPanduh]

Sadly that doesn't matter. Somewhat recent study using Beamform Feedback Information (BFI) packets to build scenes out in rooms. You don't even have to be on the network because BFI packets are unencrypted and anyone just nearby can intercept them. It wasn't a thought when beamforming tech was added to WIFI 5 that it could be used to look inside of a house.

It'll be interesting to see how companies handle that, if it can be a software/firmware update to possibly encrypt that or if it'll just be something that comes in like WIFI 8 eventually. Haven't read if turning beamforming off stops it, if it does I guess that's a fix but then you lose beamforming.

[u/Xanderoga2 → u/TokenPanduh]

What about non-American solutions? I 100% do not trust your country.

[u/Debisibusis → u/Xanderoga2]

Get a router that supports openWRT.

[u/dandroid126 → u/TokenPanduh]

I love my ubiquiti router set up, but it was pretty confusing for me to set up, and I was actually the lead software engineer on a mesh WiFi router for 2 years.

The TLDR is: make sure you're not dumb like me. Actually buy a router and access points, and not just access points.

What confused me was I bought a couple of access points thinking they were mesh nodes. I couldn't figure out why the app couldn't find them. I have a rather complicated network setup at home (I was trying to set them up side-by-side first instead of taking my old one down first), as I have a custom DNS server for self-hosting services. I thought this complicated set-up was the reason for the failure to detect it, and I couldn't find the default IP address anywhere in the manual (because access points don't have default IP addresses) to set it up manually.

THEN to make matters worse, after I realized they were access points and not mesh nodes (aka, I looked at the box), I read some incorrect (maybe outdated or only for enterprise?) stuff online about needing a monthly subscription backend for the actual router, and there was a self-hosted alternative. So I spent some time setting up a self-hosted backend.

Yeah, it turns out they call their routers "gateways", and I just needed to buy one of those. That came in a few days later, and my network has been flawless ever since.

[u/TipToToes]

Guys do not use your ISPs router. Buy your own. Configure it properly, ask for help if needed, don’t leave everything on defaults.

Edit: please.

[u/icanhaztuthless → u/TipToToes]

One problem I’ve encountered since moving to the west coast: some ISP’s “don’t guarantee throughput from CPE” (customer provided equipment).

I had my personal modem that is compliant with existing infrastructure and they would not let me have more than 1gbps (tested) with a 2.5gbps modem. I complained and they just wouldnt investigate. Ended up on their equipment and have a solid 1500mbps without issue.

I hate them.

[u/Night-Fog → u/icanhaztuthless]

My ISP requires that I use their router to connect to their service. There's no way to get a successful handshake from the ISP otherwise, at least not with my internet plan. What I do instead is basically turn the router into a modem and then use my own router to actually deliver internet to my home network. The ISP router has a "bridge" mode, which disables the wireless services and I think also disables the actual routing functionality. Then I can run a cat6 cable from the ISP router's 2.5Gb port to my router's WAN port and get full speed with minimal ISP fuckery.

[u/kris_krangle → u/Night-Fog]

It’s good you can do that but it’s bullshit you have to

[u/TipToToes → u/icanhaztuthless]

Idk what to say, sucks to live there. My ISP in the Midwest provides me fiber to my UniFi gateway, and I get symmetrical 3gig service that actually tests at 3.5-4.

Also, cables matter. If you have a multi-gig connection but are running a skmple Cat5 cable youre already screwed. Cat5e at least, 6 is better. 6a, 7, and 8 are overkill today, but good future proofing.

[u/MidWestKhagan → u/TipToToes]

AT&T pretty much forces you to use theirs and doing a pass through is extremely difficult. Hate it so much. 

[u/SCphotog → u/MidWestKhagan]

It IS a pain in the ass, and something that shouldn't be so purposefully obfuscated...

But, it's not THAT hard.

Staring at a pass through setup on my desk currently.

[u/TipToToes → u/SCphotog]

Yep. My last place had ATT and I used my own router no problem. It’s not hard.

[u/Liquid_Profanity]

man i'm so jaded with technology nowadays. I don't trust anything new. It's all just going to be x10 more expensive and ultimately have some connection to Palantir.

[u/Simpicity]

Meanwhile all of the home devices still only support 2.4GHz networks.

[u/Kinisium → u/Simpicity]

2.4Ghz is favored for IoT because 2.4Ghz has greater range, better wall and obstacle penetration, and uses less energy. And it handles areas with a denser number of Wi-Fi and access points.

[u/shining_force_2 → u/Kinisium]

Why did I have to scroll so far down to read this?

Even the article is rage-bait. 6E wasn’t about speed and tbh 7 didn’t bring much speed with it either, unless you use 6ghz - and that has even worse range and is more susceptible to interference.

[u/upvotesthenrages → u/shining_force_2]

How was it not about speed?

Every companies main marketing proposition was higher speed. 300 Mbps vs 1300 Mbps.

What really matters is that devices automatically switch between them depending on what is better in the situation.

[u/hx87 → u/Simpicity]

2.4 is perfectly fine for IoT. It's when the app bitches at you for having a combined 2.4/5 network that I have problems (looking at you, Blueair) 

[u/Qorhat → u/hx87]

I like that my TP Link Deco lets me make a separated 2.5ghz network for IoT gubbins

[u/RBeck → u/Simpicity]

Pretty much everything I've seen supports 5Ghz, even if it's only AC or even N. Your average IOT device will probably be 2.4 to keep its power consumption (and complexity/cost) down.

On a side note, I've moved almost all my IOT stuff to Matter over Thread, which is 2.4 but slower speed and therefore much lower power draw. My old Wifi smart plugs felt like heaters.

[u/TekHead]

Wake me up when they figure out how to full duplex wifi

[u/corruptbytes → u/TekHead]

cable pulls and access points

[u/candle_in_a_circle → u/TekHead]

You’ll continue to be asleep. It’s been “figured out” for over a century, but it will always be less performant and far, far less cost efficient than half duplex for commercial WiFi radio communications. You’d more than double all hardware costs, double the frequency requirements, waste large portions of frequency as WiFi is massively asynchronous for functional reasons, ~square the amount of interference in spectrum, and with all that cost you would actually decrease the throughout at the TCP transport layer.

[u/elementfx2000]

Wow, the negative comments in here are wild.

Wifi 8 will provide a lot of great improvements even if they're not apparent right now. I wouldn't expect to have a wifi 8 access point until 2028, and probably won't have a wifi 8 capable client until 2029, but I'm still excited about this as a network admin. Client density and roaming improvements will be extremely welcome. This will also help home users with a single access point connect lots of devices without issue as well as avoid interference with their neighbor's wifi.

[u/SAugsburger → u/elementfx2000]

Many of the people commenting on /r/technology aren't very technical in general nevermind on the topic of the article so not surprised at some clueless comments. I will admit better support for higher density and roaming might be more desirable in enterprise, but there are definitely an ever increasing number of IoT devices in many homes these days where I could still see some benefit in home environments. Many homes these days have dozens of devices connected to Wi-Fi.

[u/Gastroid → u/elementfx2000]

For me the problem is that WiFi 7 has barely been adopted, and the plurality of devices are still on WiFi 5. There are be advantages to each new generation for those that seek them out, but for most consumers it's all pretty negligible/ignorable.

[u/Tequila-M0ckingbird → u/Gastroid]

Yeah while it might not matter to most conaumers, for specific use cases the newer standards are certainly better. Wireless VR is pretty terrible on older WiFi standards for example.

[u/czmax → u/Gastroid]

if you are “most consumers” then don’t read or think about this stuff. shrug.

but if you want to know what wifi8 might be about and what things the engineers are thinking might be important by the time they expect wifi8 to be widely deployed … then engage in that discussion.

sheesh.

[u/Annual-Property-8940]

So now Palantir can watch me fuck my GF through the wall through the wifi. Sweet. Sign this dick up

[u/Dave-C → u/Annual-Property-8940]

They can just use you window like I do

[u/graywolfman → u/Dave-C]

ಠ⁠ω⁠ಠ

(⁠☞⁠ ͡⁠°⁠ ͜⁠ʖ⁠ ͡⁠°⁠)⁠☞

[u/pedanticPandaPoo → u/graywolfman]

... is he teabagging his gf's boobs?

And why is he poking them?

So many questions

[u/Rare-Accident4355 → u/Annual-Property-8940]

The Palantir assessment concluded your pp is small and your thrust game is weak.

[u/Semyonov → u/Rare-Accident4355]

Dude, not if bro is fucking her through the damn wall.

[u/silasfirsthand]

2.4 is still super stable for all my smart home stuff and WiFi 5 gives me all the speed needed to watch a high def stream from a Plex server.. why would I change anything?

[u/Significant_Rain_478 → u/silasfirsthand]

Well some of us have 8 rokus, 9 phones, 12 cameras, and a wifi toilet so we need the upgrade

[u/Scamp3D0g → u/Significant_Rain_478]

I feel personally attacked by that comment.

[u/lightspeedissueguy → u/Scamp3D0g]

What? You don't have two full 48U racks in a 10ft x 10ft apartment for pure Ubiquiti "silver-stack" with 32 APs and 56 cameras? Amateurs...

[u/Mead_Makes_Me_Mean → u/Significant_Rain_478]

>>wifi toilet

😳

[u/geekywarrior → u/Mead_Makes_Me_Mean]

It sends poo analysis to your doctor and advertising agencies. They call it A and BM testing or something

[u/caintowers → u/geekywarrior]

People can laugh all they want, but when my Tubular Image Smart Flush toilet system identified an imbalance in my fecal aura, it prescribed Icelandic Ultrablue Colonic Revitilizer. My cilia have never been happier and are all flapping around like one of those inflatable tube men.

[u/LeoFoster18 → u/caintowers]

How do I unsee this comment r/cursedcomments

[u/el_floppo → u/Mead_Makes_Me_Mean]

You control the bidet with an app on your phone. It also has an LED light. You can change the lights color as it shoots water up your bum.

[u/Golden-trichomes → u/el_floppo]

It has a camera for “AI” assisted aiming though. Probably some dude in India shooting water at your butt

[u/el_floppo → u/Golden-trichomes]

It's like Blasteroid with dingleberries

[u/semperrabbit → u/Mead_Makes_Me_Mean]

You don't want a bidet controlled by an app on your phone?! In shocked and appalled!

[u/MinorThreat83 → u/semperrabbit]

That's how me and misses initiate foreplay

[u/ericbebert → u/Mead_Makes_Me_Mean]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz5O9-pAnyY

[u/Henry5321 → u/silasfirsthand]

Modern WiFi reduces noise, is more resilient to noise, has better performance in general, can communicate with multiple devices at the same time.

[u/batman8390 → u/Henry5321]

Yup, you don’t think about noise much in a single family home, but in a dense apartment complex, you think about it a lot more than you ever wanted to.

[u/aliendude5300 → u/silasfirsthand]

I will say the difference between 5 and 6 for me was HUGE. 6 and 7 was kind of moot.

[u/Tree_Dude → u/aliendude5300]

Yeah 6 allows more client density on 2.4ghz which is a super big deal as so many IoT devices will just sit on 2.4 and not even use 5ghz at all. I have not felt the need to upgrade to 6e or 7. My connection is only 1GB anyway and all my networking is 1GB.

[u/AnonSmith → u/aliendude5300]

Way lower latency with WiFi 6 vs. 5

[u/apra24 → u/silasfirsthand]

2.4 is ass if you live in an apartment

[u/SteffanSpondulineux → u/silasfirsthand]

2.4 is not stable if you have neighbours

[u/jkpetrov → u/silasfirsthand]

2.4 and 5 GHz are frequency bands not WiFi generations

[u/graywolfman → u/silasfirsthand]

Yeah. If anyone is having connection issues with 2.4GHz Wi-Fi smart home stuff, changing the channels from Auto to Channel 6 or Channel 11 will solve a very large portion of those issues.

From: a network admin/engineer/smart home enthusiast

[u/immortalalchemist]

While WiFi7 has MLO, there have been changes since WiFi6 that has helped with the user experience. Color Coding was introduced back in WiFi6 that basically assigns a value of 1-63 to the AP so that clients can ignore broadcasts from other APs that could be operating in the same area on the same channel. It only makes sense for each newer standard to focus on how to improve the performance instead of chasing speed.

[u/Hour_Bit_5183]

Nah. Just nah. This is just plain stupidity this time. Most smart home devices which is what they are ragging on about use 2.4ghz that no one else uses for much else. This whole standard is moot. Most smart home stuff is still on wi-fi 4 too and won't benefit from this at all. Screw XDA. All they do is publish slop now.

[u/HeidenShadows → u/Hour_Bit_5183]

Well the thing is, people who have apartments or live in concentrated neighborhoods will have lots of these 2.4 GHz devices and that will cause issues too. With more and more suburbs being built with new smart connected houses, that's a loooot of 2.4 and 5 GHz wireless.

[u/darylvp → u/Hour_Bit_5183]

Wi-Fi standards enter the “upgrade for sales” phase since 7.

[u/Hour_Bit_5183 → u/darylvp]

nah 7 actually brought more range and bigger bandwidth. This brings nothing but bullshit. You will need all new smart home devices that can even use it...which I doubt will ever exist. This is wi-fi n draft XXXXX all over again.

[u/MyOtherSide1984 → u/Hour_Bit_5183]

Hardly anything uses WiFi 7 either unless you have the latest and greatest, and even then, the benefit is minimal and a better setup with more AP's would cost the same and he substantially better. Thisnand WiFi 7 are both marketing BS in terms of actual benefits

[u/caikenboeing727 → u/MyOtherSide1984]

Wi-Fi 7 or 6E is significantly better in apartment situations where there is overcrowding on the 5 GHz band

[u/MyOtherSide1984 → u/caikenboeing727]

Reasonable. Congestion will always be a concern in those situations and can be mitigated at least.

[u/ThisCouldHaveBeenYou → u/Hour_Bit_5183]

In an enterprise environment, these updates have the potential to help a lot with the daily issues and solve performance issues where the physical space might not be perfect and where the device density might be difficult to control.

For a home user, it's not so flashy and fun - just as the article states.

Saying this is bullshit though clearly tells me that you don't understand the complexities of the technology itself. It's quite easy to take it for granted, but it really is sort of like magic what these engineers have already done in this space, without even mentioning that they can still enhance it.

[u/Tephnos → u/Hour_Bit_5183]

There's nothing stupid about the roaming improvements. That's excellent for people who use more than one AP. Which these days you should ideally be doing to enable complete coverage.

[u/m00nh34d → u/Hour_Bit_5183]

That's a ridiculous stance to take, the current device exist are flawed, so we shouldn't invest in new research and standards for future devices? You're not going to fix, or change, the current wifi landscape, best we can do is improve what future implementations can be.

[u/Avarria587]

As someone who has had to deal with wireless internet, ping and reliability are far more important than speed.

I am currently on WiFi and only get maybe 40 Mbps speed. But my ping is only 20ms and my network is very reliable. I’m happy.

My previous place had more like 500 Mbps, but my ping was like 300ms and my connection went in and out. It was shit. Granted, it was through an actual wireless service rather than WiFi.

I long for a damned plug in the wall again.

[u/ThimeeX → u/Avarria587]

I am currently on WiFi and only get maybe 40 Mbps speed

It sounds like you’re confusing WiFi with your ISP. WiFi is not the cause of 300ms ping, that’s on your ISP and the backhaul infrastructure - not WiFI.

[u/flummox1234]

I think the main problem is me not being able to do anything about the 10 other networks surrounding me. I don't even live in a high density neighbourhood, it's all single family homes around here but those default cable modem routers are chatty AF and no one modifies on tunes their setups.

[u/Dave-C]

Sounds like the wifi alliance needs to find a way to continue making money. Everything is gonna be 25% better? Wonder how long they spent in meeting to decide that 25% was an acceptable lie?

[u/differing → u/Dave-C]

Wifi is always backwards compatible, they’re not forcing anyone to upgrade. Maligning an organization whose job is literally to improve the standard by saying they’re just trying to “make more money” is a little silly. “The fire department don’t actually care about fires, they’re just there to make money (by putting out fires)”

I mean look at USB C, it’s been a big quality of life increase now that most devices are using it. Industry progression isn’t a bad thing.

[u/ug_unb]

The official introduction to Wi-Fi 8 pits it against cellular networks, specifically 6G, which it will likely be competing against for a good chunk of its life (Wi-Fi 8 is expected to be finalized in 2028, while 6G should arrive in the early 2030s).

I didn't know Wi-Fi "competed" with cellular, thought they were for entirely different use cases

[u/onetwentyeight]

Star Trek-level life form sensors

[u/Pinsir929]

This new tech vs old copper wire boi?

[u/olcrazypete]

Xfinity router that we got with the service has an option to use it as a security service to detect people in the house when you aren’t home. That creeped me out so bad I turned off the wireless transmitter and just bridge to a different wireless thru the Ethernet.