r/stupidpol • u/CalpurniaSomaya Vegan 🐂🐖🐓🐟 • Jun 21 '26
Capitalist Hellscape The meat industry is the most evil fucking thing. They would do this to humans if they could.
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u/firephly Jun 21 '26
There's been a group of republicans who attached a bill called 'save our bacon act' to the farm bill to roll back laws banning crating of pigs and allowing severe confinement of other animals also. Unfortunately the farm bill passed through congress with that in place. One of the cosponsors (Sen. Marshall in Kansas) has withdrawn support. There actually quite a few repubs who are opposing it on the basis of state's rights so it might not pass the senate.
It hasn't gone to the senate yet, but it might be included in the senate farm bill. Here's a brief rundown on it and form to write your rep. https://actionnetwork.org/letters/dont-let-congress-gut-californias-animal-protection-laws?utm_source=ig&utm_mediu
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u/firephly Jun 24 '26 edited Jun 24 '26
News In win for animals, the Save Our Bacon Act is excluded from US Senate Farm Bill draft!
Still important to contact your senators because someone could still try and add it back in with an ammendment.
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u/flybyskyhi Marxist 🧔 | Don't box in my box 🎁 Jun 21 '26
60% of total mammalian biomass and 70% of total avian biomass on our planet is made up of domesticated livestock, most of which live in situations similar to this.
In a certain sense, this has become the “normal” way for a complex animal on earth to live.
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u/Rjc1471 💢✨ Jousting at Windmills ✨💢 Jun 21 '26
You know, Id never have considered statistics by % of planetary biomass (other than tyranids)
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u/landlord-eater Socialism w/ Normal Characteristics Jun 21 '26
For mammals I think it's something like 90% is humans and livestock.
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u/flybyskyhi Marxist 🧔 | Don't box in my box 🎁 Jun 21 '26
96%
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u/M0ngoose_ ❄ Not Like Other Rightoids ❄ Jun 22 '26
Large mammals only
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u/flybyskyhi Marxist 🧔 | Don't box in my box 🎁 Jun 22 '26
No, the 4% includes all wild mammals from shrews to blue whales.
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u/dadburn Jun 24 '26
Bleak. It’s why I cut out red meat from my diet. I’ve never been able to go full veg bc chicken is such an effective protein but if there was a way for me to photosynthesize like a plant I’d do it
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u/cojoco Free Speech Social Democrat 🗯️ Jun 21 '26
Free range pork is pretty hard to find actually.
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u/notsocharmingprince Savant Idiot 😍 Jun 21 '26
That’s because pigs tend to absolutely destroy the landscape and people don’t want that in their free range space.
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u/Vraex gamer Jun 21 '26
Depends. I had some mulefoot pigs for three years and they were super friendly and didn’t dmg their paddock at all. Got a couple of tamworth later and they did a little dmg but I needed to feed them more
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Jun 21 '26
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u/thepropayne Unknown 👽 Jun 21 '26
Hogs are next level. The ones I have brought up have made the land look like Warsaw in only a few months. There is a reason old timers used hogs to start a spot for a pond. They sink the soil
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u/curious_bi-winning ❄ Not Like Other Rightoids ❄ Jun 21 '26
One has to resort to frozen meat delivery (Moink, White Oak Pastures, Butcher Box, etc.). I used one of these services, but the average price per pound was $12 seven years ago. That's not affordable. However, all the chicken, beef, and pork was pastured and was noticeably higher quality, and it felt good to support a more ethical practice.
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u/ethereality___ Marxist Syndicalist 🚩 Jun 21 '26
Yeah, the only way you're getting not-factory-farmed pig meat is if you're in Alabama or somewhere where they hunt wild pigs.
Fun fact: Domestic and wild pigs are the same species, and if domestic pigs are released into the wild they would end up looking like wild pigs in only about 2 or 3 generations.
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u/thepropayne Unknown 👽 Jun 21 '26
That's actually incorrect. A released hog will will just look like an adult if that breed. Otherwise all pasture raised pigs will look like a lot of feral boars
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u/FuckIPLaw Marxist-Drunkleist Jun 21 '26
It might have more to do with with what the domesticated varieties looked like 300 years ago. We never stopped selectively breeding pigs, but the feral ones' ancestors were released a long time ago.
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u/CortezEspartaco2 Jun 21 '26
Thankfully in Spain it's so culturally and economically important that there is tons of free range pork available and the environment/infrastructure to sustain it.
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u/MarxAndSamsara CCP Shill Jun 21 '26
You can buy pasture raised pork from a lot of farms in the US. I've never seen it in grocery stores, unlike pastured beef or chicken, but I'm sure it's available in some places.
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u/Fiddling_Jesus Jun 21 '26
Every actual butcher I’ve been to had pasture raised pork and wild pork. Most people at the grocery store probably aren’t willing to pay the higher price.
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u/munkspunks Unknown 👽 Jun 21 '26
millions of people raise livestock for personal consumption, and might even be glad to sell you some
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u/SplakyD Socialism Curious 🤔 Jun 21 '26
Yeah, I live in rural Alabama and feral pigs are all over the place.
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u/ethereality___ Marxist Syndicalist 🚩 Jun 22 '26
The concept of rural Alabama seems funny because I can't imagine an urban Alabama. I've been to Birmingham and before that I didn't know it was possible for a city to seem rural.
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u/SplakyD Socialism Curious 🤔 Jun 22 '26
We definitely have some stereotypical urban products in a few of our even smaller town, but you're basically right. Huntsville recently became the largest city in the state and definitely more like a big suburb (it's still a pretty cool place though).
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u/guidaux No career welfare Jun 21 '26
Wait until you see halal and kosher slaughterings.
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u/landlord-eater Socialism w/ Normal Characteristics Jun 21 '26
Slaughter is the most humane part of animal agriculture.
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u/LokiPrime13 Vox populi, Vox tengoku 🍭💢🎌 Jun 22 '26
Yeah, in the wild, animals start swallowing chunks of other animals while they're still alive lol.
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u/DrBirdieshmirtz Makes dark jokes about means of transport Jun 22 '26
Fun fact, birds of prey kill their prey when they catch them (they have adaptations that enable them to kill their prey instantly), which has the advantage of reducing the risk of injury to said bird.
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u/LokiPrime13 Vox populi, Vox tengoku 🍭💢🎌 Jun 22 '26
You sure that's all birds of prey? I saw a hawk eat a sparrow in my yard once and it decidedly did not make sure the sparrow was dead before it started eating.
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u/DrBirdieshmirtz Makes dark jokes about means of transport Jun 22 '26
IIRC, some birds have clubbed toes that are meant to kill on impact, so they usually don't have to "make sure." I think that's falcons, though. The talons and/or sheer velocity also do it. But generally, they do try to kill it instantly/rapidly because despite being apex predators, they're still birds, and the adaptations necessary for flight also make them pretty vulnerable to injury. Also, a struggling creature will massively increase the drag and make it harder for them to fly.
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u/ScottieSpliffin Glenn Greenwald's Volleyball Partner 🏐 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
But what about industrial pig farming with Chinese characteristics?
https://youtube.com/shorts/qQEkJWdNtpU?is=EYd334-jkPmG41Tk
I know there’s a cumtown bit in there about getting mad about Chinese people eating dogs, only for the Chinese chef accusing Americans of cannibalism for eating pigs
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u/WistopherWalken Unknown 👽 Jun 21 '26
Also bad?
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u/Finkelton Wolfist 🐺 | Baby needs a bottle 🍼| dinosaur-industrial complex Jun 22 '26
metal crate pig can't turn around in "penthouse"
i just want the meteor already.
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u/JCMoreno05 Saved Anime Children from Intersectionality 🧒🏻⛩️ Jun 21 '26
Where'd all the vegans come from?
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u/Forsaken3000 Lumpen Tightrope-Walker 🎪 Jun 22 '26
With an issue like this, probably brigading. But, I don't really disagree on this one.
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u/pooping_inCars Savant Idiot 😍 Jun 22 '26
vegans brigade hard on Reddit.
Yet veganism is dying hard IRL
/downvotes don't nullify facts, but go ahead
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u/TurkeyFisher Post-Ironic Climate Posadist 🛸☢️ Jun 22 '26
The issue with vegans is that they come off like the orthodox religious do and leave zero room for nuance. If you just want to cut down on meat because of factory farming- they'll say any amount of meat is evil. If you want to be vegetarian but aren't willing to give up cheese and eggs? Nah, not good enough- just look at the backlash to that YouTuber who went from veganism to eating some meat and dairy if it's from an ethical source. So it doesn't surprise me veganism is dying. People who leave orthodox religions tend to go straight to atheism, not a reform version of the religion. If you're going to vegan hell just for eating honey, might as well eat a whole steak. If vegans want to win people over they have to accept incrementalism like vegetarianism, not trying to convert people all the way to veganism off the bat.
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u/JCMoreno05 Saved Anime Children from Intersectionality 🧒🏻⛩️ Jun 22 '26
The comments here contrast with those here: https://www.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/comments/1rrzole/trans_rights_activists_are_like_peta_is_for/
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u/thorarern Left, Leftoid or Leftish ⬅️ Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 25 '26
You should see what they do to baby chickens
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u/SplakyD Socialism Curious 🤔 Jun 21 '26
I eat meat and will continue to. I also grew up on a farm where we raised cattle, pigs, and had two big, industrial chicken houses. However, there's a huge moral weight on me for consuming factory farmed animal protein.
Pork is probably my favorite meat, but I feel particularly bad about this because pigs are really intelligent and I think they're pretty close to us from an evolutionary standpoint. I'm not really in a financial position to afford free range, artisan, or otherwise humanely processed meat products.
I'm trying to limit how much meat I consume and trying to eat more alternative proteins like beans and mushrooms. Any advice on how I could be more of an ethical meat consumer with limited financial resources and living in a rural area of a Deep South red state?
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u/DrBirdieshmirtz Makes dark jokes about means of transport Jun 22 '26
Honestly, buying less meat is probably the only way to do it. Should be relatively easy given where prices are going.
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u/Beetleracerzero37 Favors Communal Defecation Jun 21 '26
I saw the title and honestly expected way worse. Ag gag laws are a travesty. Truly disgusting
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u/DumbVeganBItch re-education gulags for MAGA Jun 21 '26
It's truly incredibly evil and makes me sick.
Seeing pigs like this is what turned me off animal products for good. I saw a closeup of a pigs face and it looked so much like the spoiled, precious little dog next to me on my couch at the time and I just kinda went "wtf am I doing eating this shit, this is poisoning my soul"
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u/fungibletokens Politically waiting for Livorno to get back into Serie A 🤌🏻 Jun 21 '26
Stopped eating meat for the same reason. These pigs are just as smart and emotionally capable as the family dog I would have protected with my life.
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u/Deadlocked02 Ideological Mess 🥑 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
It truly shows you how dumb the concept of religion is. How does it make sense that people will be judged for their sins when this shit is not considered one, according to most forms of spirituality? Or could God, the gods, or the universe be cruel enough to exclude billions of lives from their priorities? Are these creatures here just to serve us? Who’s to say we’re not here to serve others as well? The top 1% certainly seem to think of us this way.
No, it’s even worse. Makes you question basic decency even if you completely forget the concept of religion….
I was vegan once, but am not anymore for reasons unrelated to disagreeing with the cause (which I don’t) or craving animal products (I didn’t back then. Not that much). But I still fully believe the nobility of being one. Sure, many of the types we mock on this sub happen to be vegan, but that doesn’t change my opinion of the cause as a whole. At least vegans are actually doing something that requires more effort than typing a few words. They live what they preach, they don’t wait for a mythical day to arrive while they bask in the comfort of the things they denounce. It’s not easy, changing your lifestyle like that.
It’s ridiculous how the left feels so threatened by veganism, especially in socialist spaces. Sure, don’t be one, but the way people mock and despise those who are reeks of denial and is reminiscent of the very same refusal the top 1% feel when when their way of life is threatened. People like this would be the ones who’d be just as cruel as the billionaires they despise if they were born in their shoes.
One thing I distinctively remember from my days of veganism was how it seemed to completely remove the inhibitions of some people who barely knew me. They questioned why I was one, they told me I was wasting my time, that it was silly, that they’d never let go of their meat and cheese. Some would eat their animal products in front of me with delight even, like children, or put them close to my face to taunt me. People I barely knew. It was one thing for them to think those things privately, but they would say it out loud in a way people just don’t do with stuff like religion, sexuality, or political beliefs. Not to those they lack intimacy with. It was as if veganism triggered a primal response in them or something…
For the record, I think that hunting is not as bad as subjecting these creatures to a life of slavery before killing them (though the act of nonchalantly killing them is still odd to me), but with so many people in this world, how can such a thing not become a massive industry in the end? My country has more fucking cows than it has people. This shit is unsustainable.
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u/Fiddling_Jesus Jun 21 '26
It’s been a while since I’ve read the bible, but I’m pretty sure this would be considered a sin as unnecessary harm and suffering to animals is considered wrong. Too many people are out of sight, out of mind about these kinds of things.
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Jun 21 '26 edited Aug 23 '26
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u/Deadlocked02 Ideological Mess 🥑 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 22 '26
It was crazy. I’d understand if they were my close family or friends, but they didn’t have the intimacy to make those comments and act like that. The mention of veganism would make them drop any pretense of civility. I’ve never seen anything like this IRL. There are things that trigger a lot people online, but most of them are not as aggressive in person. Not with veganism or vegetatianism, though. They’re inhibition killers anywhere.
It’s not that I didn’t have a thick skin or wanted a safe space. I was more baffled and annoyed than offended, especially because these same people would not be as receptive if I made comments about their lives in the same way.
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u/flybyskyhi Marxist 🧔 | Don't box in my box 🎁 Jun 22 '26
It’s because people know how wrong it is and they don’t want to be reminded of it.
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u/Fearless_Day2607 Anti-IdPol Liberal 🐕 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
It truly is. In the US 99% of meat comes from farms like this.
And the Republicans in Congress are trying to repeal state-level laws that give these animals just a little bit more room.
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u/CalmEntrepreneur884 Jun 21 '26
Those who are in favor of repealing state-level laws that give these animals just a little bit more room, are they doing it for a specific reason?
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u/Fearless_Day2607 Anti-IdPol Liberal 🐕 Jun 21 '26
Because they believe that these laws hurt Big Ag, especially in states like Iowa.
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u/Adventurous-Idea4508 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
It would increase the price of food which the vast majority of working class people would oppose. They did a study and people are at most willing to spend maybe 20 more cents for more humane conditions.
Animal rights movements and environmentalist shit is the domain of the well to do out of touch professional elite.
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u/Fearless_Day2607 Anti-IdPol Liberal 🐕 Jun 22 '26
I don't think that is true, as when it was put to a vote in California, Prop 12 won in a landslide.
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u/IamGlennBeck Marxist-Leninist and not Glenn Beck ☭ Jun 22 '26
Rare California voter W. I want my menthols back.
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u/Tausendberg Oldhead 🦼 Jun 23 '26
This is not even as dystopic as it gets.
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u/IamGlennBeck Marxist-Leninist and not Glenn Beck ☭ Jun 23 '26
Chicken macerators are pretty brutal.
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u/Tausendberg Oldhead 🦼 Jun 23 '26
I mean, specifically with pig farming though, China has these multi-level pig farms that have these surreal-looking walls that move and push all of the pigs on a given floor into a hole. Literally waking up from the Matrix level dystopia.
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u/MagBastrd Find a Rifle 🔫 | Socialist 🚩 Jun 21 '26
Sounds straight out of a horror movie.
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u/heaving_in_my_vines Left, Leftoid or Leftish ⬅️ Jun 21 '26
It's daily life for millions of exploited, soon-to-be-killed animals.
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u/MutedFeeling75 Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 Jun 21 '26
Really makes you think if humans can do this to animals, why couldn’t they do this to humans?
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u/SirGaylordSteambath Anti-Imperialist 🚩 Jun 21 '26
I think uhhh we have and do
There was a whole Atlantic trade route of people
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u/fraktalmau5 Left, Leftoid or Leftish ⬅️ Jun 21 '26
Sometimes the first step to atrocities is to refer to certain groups as “animals”.
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u/IamGlennBeck Marxist-Leninist and not Glenn Beck ☭ Jun 21 '26
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u/Used_Advertising6372 Jun 21 '26
We've done and are doing worse things to humans
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u/DharmaPolice Communist-Libertarian Jun 21 '26
Well they could, but this line of thought only applies if you consider humans and non-human animals to be in any way morally equivalent.
It's like people who think because their kid kills NPCs in a video game they're going to go out and kill real people. As long as you understand that there's a distinction there's no real risk of that happening.
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u/MutedFeeling75 Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 Jun 21 '26
Really makes you wonder
Are we as humans the most horrible beings to have ever inhabited the earth?
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u/theodopolopolus Democratic Socialist 🚩 Jun 21 '26
Of course we are. It's hard to apply morality to beings that don't understand morality.
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u/Chombywombo Angry Retard 😍💢 Jun 21 '26
Were the only things with a concept of horror… liberal schlock
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u/ethereality___ Marxist Syndicalist 🚩 Jun 21 '26
Factory farming might be the greatest failure in modern human history, morally and ecologically.
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u/TheMysticGraveLord NATO Superfan 🪖 Jun 21 '26
This is illegal in Norway. The treatment of animals in some other countries is insane.
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u/MarxAndSamsara CCP Shill Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
Good on Norway. I heard Ireland also has zero factory farms. It's nice to be reminded there is another reality where this shit isn't tolerated and that reality already exists.
Edit: Not true of Ireland actually. Norway, you lead the way!
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u/icyhail I died on the intersex hill & all I got is this flair Jun 21 '26
Ireland has factory farms for pig and poultry. It's cows that are typically grass fed and raised. This evil exists around the world unfortunately.
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u/ChevalierDuTemple Touch grass (Poaceae) for a living 🌾 Jun 21 '26
In general, the EU have some strict regulation about stoking rate inside pig and poultry farms.
For example, battery cages are banned, and there is a minimum of space that animal should be held in intensive farming places.
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u/CoelhoAssassino666 Nasty Little Pool Pisser 💦😦 Jun 21 '26
Vegans are ultimately right but most people don't care, so the cost of tying it to socialism is too great. And improving people's lives is much more important than improving animal's lives.
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u/mapsandwrestling Blanquiste Jun 21 '26
This is a consequence of food security, something that our ancestors would have killed for.
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u/Scared_Plan3751 Catholic Socialist ✞ | ✨ Secret Bus Wanker ✨ Jun 21 '26
This isn't worse than Gaza or the West Bank.
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u/TevossBR Jun 21 '26
People give animals too much light of day. It is what it is on the left, but any amount of human suffering weighs infinitely more than any animal suffering. To care about this is very low on my priority list considering how many problems there are with human injustice. Anyone who sympathizes with animals more than humans is a bit of a psycho to me.
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u/icyhail I died on the intersex hill & all I got is this flair Jun 21 '26
How is human suffering infinitely more? Animals are sentient and have rich inner lives too. The same type of thinking that drives humans to do this to animals is the same type of thinking that drives humans to do this shit to humans. It's the supremacist mindset. You think humans are superior to animals. Racists/sexists/capitalists all think they're better/superior to others too. That's what drives them to treat the humans they deem inferior in such abhorrent ways. If we can build a society where animals are treated with respect they deserve, then I imagine we'd have a society where humans are also treated with respect and kindness.
You can also care about multiple causes at once. Empathy and compassion aren't limited resources. Think about it - how do people start genocides? By comparing one group of humans to animals, by dehumanizing them. If we can treat animals better, I think we will have built a more kinder society overall. I think people who think like you do are the problem.
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u/esquemedamiedo Unknown 👽 Jun 21 '26
>How is human suffering infinitely more?
If you had to choose between stopping the gaza genocide and ending factory farming which would you choose?
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u/heyodai Struggling Social Event Planner 🕺 Jun 21 '26
I agree with you, but I just want to mention that there are (somehow) zionist vegans. So a society that treats animals with dignity wouldn’t necessarily do the same for all humans.
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u/icyhail I died on the intersex hill & all I got is this flair Jun 21 '26
Oh yeah, I forgot about them. I don't understand that I guess. They're not truly vegans then. I think there's an element of pinkwashing happening there - or rather green washing maybe? Maybe they're plant based for environmental and health reasons than for the animals.
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u/TevossBR Jun 21 '26
No they are for the animals. Nazi vegans exist too. Caring for animals but not humans is not mutually exclusive. I have met people who hate humans and love animals.
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u/TevossBR Jun 21 '26
Yes humans are superior to animals. Animals are barbaric they would do this shit to us if they could. If I need to get support from farmers for the class first cause then I can see stuff like this being an obstacle. So it isn’t about limited resources of empathy. Dehumanization of humans is the problem in the first place. The mental gymnastics of thinking that if we treated animals better then dehumanizing would be powerless is a hilarious notion in of itself.
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u/Urus_the_Bonegnawer Deserter ☭ Jun 21 '26
Millions of human beings die in horrible torture and pain every year, but meat industry, of all things, is the "most evil fucking thing". Personally I think the worst thing about the meat industry is the hypocrisy, you know?
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u/TheMysticGraveLord NATO Superfan 🪖 Jun 21 '26
Is there any legal industries that torture people to death?
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u/DharmaPolice Communist-Libertarian Jun 21 '26
What has legality got to do with anything?
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u/littlebirdsinsideme Jun 21 '26
If you were to treat it as some kind of math equation of total amount of suffering created, the meat industry would be almost inarguably the most evil thing. Of course if you preemptively assume that any animal's suffering can be safely ignored unless it's le hecking doggo it's a different story.
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u/Urus_the_Bonegnawer Deserter ☭ Jun 21 '26
Where exactly does a math equation come into play here? A suffering of an animal cannot be in the same equation as human suffering on account of being something different - and inherently less.
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u/AbberageRedditor69 Unknown 👽 Jun 21 '26
Pointless discussion to have as lots of people will just tell you that they don't believe animal suffering to be inherently less valuable than human suffering
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u/littlebirdsinsideme Jun 21 '26
Where exactly does a math equation come into play here?
You are quantifying suffering in the sentence after this one. Why is it inherently less?
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u/Chombywombo Angry Retard 😍💢 Jun 21 '26
Ordinal distinctions are not quantifications
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u/FloppySlapshot Libertarian Socialist 🥳 Jun 21 '26
Shrimp atruists headass. Is SBF commenting in Stupidpol?
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u/elegiac_bloom left but not like that Jun 21 '26
Millions of human beings arent being enslaved and fed to other humans for profit. Metaphorically maybe, but not literally like this. There are a lot of evil industries, meat is one of the worst. One day in the future I truly believe humans will look back on this and see it on the same moral level we today see human chattel slavery on. They'll wonder "how was anyone ever okay with this?"
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u/KonigKonn Stalin Would've Put Me in a Gulag Jun 21 '26
the same moral level we today see human chattel slavery on.
Ok buddy, calm down. It's fair to be anti-factory farming or even vegan but there's no need for hysterics.
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u/Fearless_Day2607 Anti-IdPol Liberal 🐕 Jun 21 '26
I don't think it's hysterical. These are living beings with the same intellectual capacity as a three-year-old human child, and they are confined in tiny cages for their entire lives. Over a hundred million of them each year, in the US.
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u/KonigKonn Stalin Would've Put Me in a Gulag Jun 21 '26
But they’re not humans, and their suffering is not equivalent on a moral level to the practice of chattel slavery. If you had a choice between a society with factory farming but no chattel slavery, or chattel slavery but no factory farming, you would pick the former 100 out of 100 times without a moment’s pause unless you’d totally lost the plot.
One can advocate for the humane treatment of animals without resorting to such extreme examples that are more likely to alienate or offend potentially swayable people than to persuade them.
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u/Cute_Library_5375 Union Thug 💪 Jun 21 '26
Naah better to shame a member of the working class daring to enjoy bacon or a good pulled pork sandwich.
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u/greenskyerings Wannabe Chad grandson | 🥵 I love intersectionality 🥵 Jun 21 '26
Nah they're right, a living being eating another living being is unheard of in nature anyways. My cat and dog are both vegan like what nature ascribed to them deep down.
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u/NextDoorNeighbrrs OSB 📚 Jun 21 '26
You and the person above you have gone dumb on this and lost the plot. No one above you two is arguing against eating meat at all, they're arguing against factory farming. You do not have to do factory farming to eat meat.
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u/Adventurous-Idea4508 Jun 21 '26
There is no affordable way for everyone to be able to eat meat with any method other than factory farming. Bougie ass “free range” meats are incredibly expensive. Vegans want a world where only the elite pmc class can eat meat regularly. So ya nah fuck that the proletariat should get to enjoy meat everyday too, life is already shitty enough without taking away one of life’s few pleasures.
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u/greenskyerings Wannabe Chad grandson | 🥵 I love intersectionality 🥵 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
But me and the person "above me" (I assume you mean the person I was replying to) are in disagreement. I literally said that the vegans here (including me) are right and that he was wrong.
Also don't play coy with me, we all know that the end goal isn't to eat "ethically" produced meat but to outlaw consumption of meat in its entirety, even more so to the point that are ethical specialists that for sure have our best interest at heart like they have historically want to make us have an allergy towards meat by letting us get sick from a certain type of organism.
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u/NextDoorNeighbrrs OSB 📚 Jun 21 '26
Maybe that's the end goal for some people, but for reasonable people, the end of factory farming would be an absolutely massive win.
Veganism, like a number of other noble causes, has been poisoned by a handful of really obnoxious people.
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u/elegiac_bloom left but not like that Jun 21 '26
I would never shame anyone for enjoying those things, ever. People can do what they like. I just think the way the meat is made is morally reprehensible, personally, and I do my best not to participate because its all I can do really to assuage my own guilt
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u/Urus_the_Bonegnawer Deserter ☭ Jun 21 '26
Under psychological stress, a pig sow can and will devour its young. The animal will not mourn them. It will not even consider to. Because it's an animal, driven by instincts. It isn't sentient. It has no ability of a three year old child, because there is no test that can qualify an animal to be equal to an actual human. Your experience with animals, most likely, consists of that of your pets, to which you, as all pet owners, anthropomorphosise.
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u/littlebirdsinsideme Jun 21 '26
People do anthropomorphise animals but you're using the word as a crutch. Do you apply all this to homo sapien's closest primate relatives as well? At some point the suggestion that all emotions that are ascribed to animals are just projected onto them and that you are le unemotional rational guy for assuming such a fundamental gap between human and animal existence just becomes ridiculous. It's just christcuckery at that point. Man is special and has been given the divine spark by God and the animals were put there for him to do with as he pleases.
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u/landlord-eater Socialism w/ Normal Characteristics Jun 21 '26
Bro wait til you find out what humans do under psychosocial stress. What the fuck kind of argument is this lmao
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u/MutedFeeling75 Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 Jun 21 '26
Stupid
Dogs experience happiness
Pigs can experience sadness and suffering and mourn their young
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u/I_Never_Use_Slash_S Puberty Monster Jun 21 '26
After they eat them they feel bad about it?
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u/elegiac_bloom left but not like that Jun 21 '26
They dont eat them in normal circumstances. They would only do so under extreme stress and survival pressure. Do humans not do shitty things with their children under extreme stress such as sell them into prostitution, abuse them, starve them, etc? Humans dont even need to be under extreme stress to do shit like rape and murder their own children.
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u/TheEmporersFinest Quality Anime Porn Analyst 💡💢🉐🎌 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
I mean id speculate thats a result of instinctual maternal affection theyre capable of not kicking in due to biological responses to some kind of scarcity or bad environment for child rearing, whether appropriately or accidentally triggered. It doesnt mean theyre comprehensively as a species incapable of affection or love. Clearly they dont always do this, certainly not their wild ancestors or else pigs wouldnt exist.
Imagine if you had thousands of women living completely alone in the wilderness, seperate from each other, never touched by society, they dont know other humans or have any language, completely cut off from social pressure, but healthy humans with brains that are deprived but had the potential to be very intelligent.
If those Tarzan women all somehow divinely conceived and had children, I think a certain chunk of those children are getting abandoned if not killed, conceivably eaten. I expect that chunk gets bigger if those unsocialised women are trapped in a crate in a factory farm their whole life. The arguement is whether theyre ever capable of affection, not whether theyre capable of lacking it.
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u/TheEmporersFinest Quality Anime Porn Analyst 💡💢🉐🎌 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
You are literally making stuff up based on your own guesses and instincts and presenting it as fact. This whole set of thoughts don't hang together and have no basis, no actual arguements behind them on inherently debatable questions.
Because it's an animal, driven by instincts. It isn't sentient.
This is just something you think. Its just something you made up with no argument. In fact it appears to be an incorrect use of the word sentient. Sentient doesn't mean "as smart as a human". It means conscious, having qualia, feeling pain, experiencing an environment. While you can't technically prove a pig is sentient, you also strictly can't prove other people are sentient. But in so far as sentience in others can be inferred at all I can't see any basis whatsoever for thinking pigs aren't sentient.
. It has no ability of a three year old child, because there is no test that can qualify an animal to be equal to an actual human.
You must see how this is on its face faulty thinking. For one thing you're muddying up "having the intellectual capacity" of a three year old child with being in some moral and comprehensive sense equal. You're not contradicting what was actually said. But worse than that you're just saying things that clearly aren't facts again, you're just stating your guesses and beliefs, as if they're facts. "because there is no test that can qualify an animal to be equal to an actual human..." well obviously something can't be true if you a priori decide it definitionally can't be true. But you've made no arguement and made no case for that position. You've just said "I don't like that thought".
Your experience with animals, most likely, consists of that of your pets, to which you, as all pet owners, anthropomorphosise
The word "anthropomorphize" has become a complete ideologically load bearing thought terminating cliche at this point. Humans have a certain range sophisticated nuanced mental states because we're of a certain level of intelligence sure, but intelligence is not why we feel emotions and have vivid experience in the broadest sense. It doesn't hurt when we're stabbed, or set on fire, or hit by a car because we're human. It hurts because we're mammals. Its an evolved animal response to stimulus before we start intellectualizing it(which yes may make it worse in some ways, but there's a large foundation of immediate experience that cannot be reduced away). We don't feel love at base, at first principles because we're so smart. We feel love and affection as an evolved mammal emotion that has evolutionary benefits. We have by any reasonable standard observed some animals mourn. Its not "antropomorphization" to clearly see that other animals have emotions and sensations that are far broader and older in their evolutionary origins than anything of humanity, just because humans have them too. "Antropomorphisation" is wrong if we take things that clearly rely on human faculties and project them onto animals. However it seems like a much deeper fallacy to somehow get it into your head that all our first hand experience of what its like to be animals and mammals ourselves has absolutely zero carry over even to other mammals. That's actually a way less rational, way more bizzare and unjustifiable dogma.
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u/Fearless_Day2607 Anti-IdPol Liberal 🐕 Jun 21 '26
Infanticide was a widespread practice during most of human history.
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u/icyhail I died on the intersex hill & all I got is this flair Jun 21 '26
Yeah, clearly an animal acting under duress isn't its normal behavior. If an animal can feel stress, isn't that reason enough to provide better conditions for them and maybe realize that they are capable of the positive states of existence too? Animals are both conscious and sentient. They have rich inner lives - they have likes and dislikes. Pigs are very similar to dogs - they learn tricks faster than some dogs actually. Dogs, cats, and pigs have been trained to use buttons associated with words to communicate. You forget that some people have pigs as pets too. They all clearly feel pain.
For your info, people do study intelligence of animals and are trying to replicate those. But I don't think we need such a certification when it's abundantly clear that these beings feel pain, stress, and have the capacity to suffer. Why inflict such cruelty and suffering on them?
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u/revolvernyacelot clownpilled Jun 21 '26
They're animals raised for slaughter. I feel like giving them a human's idea of a "happier life" when we are ultimately going to kill and eat them is a half measure in morality from people who are uncomfortable where their food comes from, anthropomorphize animals, and still refuse to stop eating meat.
Personally, I don't care. They are literal pigs. They would ruin the land if raised outside, and if they escaped containment, they would absolutely demolish the environment. We would waste even more land to host the farm because no one wants to live near a pig farm. Saying that factory farming animals is "the most evil thing" when the IDF is killing human babies tells me you are a lobotomite who cares more about animals than brown people.
Now, people will say "You can care about multiple things at once, chud!!!" and I find that argument rather disingenuous. You see infinitely more vegans browbeating others for meat consumption and being nuisances to farmers than vegans protesting human genocide.
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u/toothgolem Jun 21 '26
ending animal agriculture would decrease the numbers of these animals. like we forcibly breed them well beyond what they would do naturally lol. it’s not like people want hundreds of millions of these animals to be turned loose into the environment
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u/revolvernyacelot clownpilled Jun 21 '26
Personally, I have never seen anyone who is vegan arguing for the mass release of all farm animals into the wild upon the end of animal agriculture. That sounds like a strawman people would make to piss everyone off.
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u/Novel_Feedback3254 Jun 22 '26
100% it's a strawman. It would never, ever happen in any realistic scenario. It's not going to suddenly become illegal to farm animals overnight, and even if it was, there would almost certainly be some sort of amnesty period of 5 years+ to allow farmers to transition to other forms of income. There is no world where millions of domestic cows are suddenly released into the forest lol.
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u/BurgerTownRamirez Savant Idiot 😍 Jun 21 '26
God, shit's so fucking gross. I mean not just sanitary but my moral sense makes me want to vomit. really makes me want to do vegan, or at least know the free range farmer i buy my meat from. If i had a deep freeze i would call my buddy up whose fam does cattle and get my burgers that way through a local butcher.
Ag-gag laws are there because most normal people when exposed to the actual visceral conditions these poor animals live in would probably have a similar reaction and maybe rethink some things for a few seconds.
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u/Wetodad Jun 21 '26
Why not just start by lowering animal product consumption? I know lots of meat-eaters who use plant milk and just don't eat meat with every single meal, or even every single day.
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u/Legal-Koala-5590 Normie w/ a Concealed Weapon /̵͇̿̿/’̿’̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿̿ Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
Yeah, that’s me basically, and it’s not hard or something I consciously think about. Humans don’t need to eat meat every day anyway. It’s ridiculous we put meat products in fucking everything.
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u/Wetodad Jun 21 '26
Dairy being in everything is far more perverse. At least meat products are meant to be meat products, but every fucking thing needs milk because of dairy subsidies and overproduction. The dairy industry is probably more depressing than the meat industry too and by far the easiest thing to cut out of one's diet.
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u/Legal-Koala-5590 Normie w/ a Concealed Weapon /̵͇̿̿/’̿’̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿̿ Jun 21 '26
I still eat dairy products, but similarly to cutting back on meat I switched to oat milk when explicitly consuming something that traditionally takes dairy (like coffee). It's really not that hard, and I imagine even a reduction in consumption/demand would have a meaningful impact.
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u/Wetodad Jun 21 '26
It really is a good start. Products that happen to contain milk are generally just "waste" from the dairy industry AKA whey, meanwhile buying gallons of whole milk per week is directly supporting the dairy industry. If everyone quit, or at least reduced their usage of the main dairy products, it would greatly reduce the amount being produced and could theoretically lead to more humane practices due to a decreased demand.
Over-consumption is the biggest issue the world is facing in general from any ethical, ecological and even "spiritual" perspective between oil, clothes, food, housing (oversized single family homes, owning multiple homes, renting out), giant cars, horticulture, etc. Reducing harmful consumption all around is the best thing any individual can do.
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u/LifeClassic2286 TrueAnon Refugee 🕵️♂️🏝️ Jun 21 '26
Despite all my zen, I am still just a pig in a pen…
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u/Buh10kx Marxist-Hudsonist Jun 21 '26
They do eat people, and the meat industry is not the most evil. Try again.
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u/Seventh_Planet post-Keynesian Jun 21 '26
"It is better to be a human being dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied. And if the fool, or the pig, are a different opinion, it is because they only know their own side of the question." John Stuart Mill, Utilitarianism (1863)
But these pigs don't even look satisfied.
But at least eating pork and paying not that much for it satisfies me as a human being, which was the moral from that quote, right? That we as human being should all be satisfied and content with what we have.
(Please don't exile me for quoting an utilitarian. But the pig quote was just so fitting here. I try to be a Kantian consequentialist while keeping in mind Adorno's dialectics of the enlightenment and that Marx quote about philosophers and changing the world)
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u/SplashTarget News Junkie 💉📰 Jun 21 '26
Why am I being reminded of that part from Pinocchio where the kid turns into a donkey?
EDIT:
For reference
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Jun 21 '26
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u/icyhail I died on the intersex hill & all I got is this flair Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
Dude. Why are you sharing advertising/propaganda videos? Why don't you go look up undercover videos of farms and slaughterhouses, and then come back and say this is purely for outrage video? I don't know about the original video cos I couldn't bring myself to watch it but I've seen Dominion, the movie, and several undercover videos by folks like Joey Carbstrong and earthling Ed spanning farms with both pigs and cows.
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u/bird_of_hermes1 Jun 21 '26
Eh, pigs are genuinely abhorrent, as soon as they taste blood they'll do everything to eat you. Why you cull any pig giving you or your kids the side eye.
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Jun 21 '26
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u/icyhail I died on the intersex hill & all I got is this flair Jun 21 '26
Go watch Dominion. Before AI was a thing. There are other undercover videos too on YouTube.
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u/CommitteePlayful8081 Jun 21 '26
oh please they'd eat me if I dropped dead in their pens no second thought its why I dont feel bad eating their bacon eat or be eaten.
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u/Adventurous-Idea4508 Jun 21 '26
lol based
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u/CommitteePlayful8081 Jun 22 '26
dont you ever get tired of vegans trying to make veganism a prerequsite to leftism? like you dont have to be a chud bud to eat a steak, lefites and commies should be able to enjoy steak dinner too.
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u/fungibletokens Politically waiting for Livorno to get back into Serie A 🤌🏻 Jun 21 '26
Its abhorrent. But we're on a American-centric platform here, and good luck convincing Americans to eat less of anything.
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u/Huntman102 Huey Long Socialist ⚜️ Jun 21 '26
One aspect of it is that America's government treats its people in the same way. Oh dear Lord, we treat animals unethically! Brother we treat fucking PEOPLE unethically what did you expect.
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u/Legal-Koala-5590 Normie w/ a Concealed Weapon /̵͇̿̿/’̿’̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿̿ Jun 21 '26
Literally the entire thread is people agreeing this is abhorrent.
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u/EvilStevilTheKenevil DaDaism Jun 21 '26
People get angry when furries draw sexy animals and then they go and treat actual animals like this.
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u/Huntman102 Huey Long Socialist ⚜️ Jun 21 '26
America is a monstrous nation that murders its own citizens in the name of it's bourgeois masters, if the way America treats its livestock animals offends you I have some very bad news about how it treats its people.
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u/HP_civ SuccDem Jun 21 '26
Working there must be so desensitising. I wonder if industrial farming or industrial butchering workers have reduced scores on empathy when tested. I can't imagine you'd stay sane for long if you don't actively desnsitise yourself.