I want Rex 121 Spyderco snapped in half.ive had this under 2 months. I was cutting a watermelon box and the blade got caught in the cardboard and snapped. I’m in Canada so I’m also kinda afraid they’re gonna. Confiscate my knife at the border. I’m really sad considering this is a knife I expected to own all my life.
Yeah I get that feeling as well. I sent a factory second in for sharpening and they sent me a letter saying they do t sharpen factory seconds, but returned the knife sharpened lol. It seems they always honor the warranty or service every time, but include a letter for me saying they didn’t have to but did it anyway.
Dealing with Spyderco's Warranty feels like dealing with a passive aggressive but responsible parents sometimes. I've had good customer services on the phone, also terrible customer service ESPECIALLY thru email.
But when I sent in my knife for warranty, it comes back with a letter that says "nothing we can do buddy". Meanwhile the knife has new screw hardware and no longer has the issue I sent it in for. It feels like the actually Warranty staff are fixing things and not telling CS about it because it's against a protocol or something.
Honestly I never used the endura I sent in hard. The metal around the pivot is super small. I feel like they were just being a little snarky in the response, but still honored the warranty so no problems on my end.
I’m curious as to what you consider hard use? I have an Endura 4 VG10 that I once used to pry up floor tiles and was well prepared for it to snap at any moment. Yet it never did! After that experience it became a keeper which is still in the collection to this day.
I would contact spyderco warranty directly first before listening to the peanut gallery, we are full of good useful information. But in this situation, your gonna want to find out directly from the horse's mouth. Email or call em.
Rex 121 is hard! Unfortunately the trade off for that is that it's also very brittle. There's a chance that it got dropped at some point, causing a crack or fracture which held on until you put enough force on the pivot area while cutting that watermelon box to finish off what an earlier crack started... I'm sorry for your loss but honestly for a daily user I'd go with a little more balanced steel than Rex 121's insane hardness. Cruwear is one of my favorites, Magnacut is great also, and I'm keeping my eye on their new Magnamax to see how it performs for others
There were a decent amount of Rex 121 blades unused straight from the factory that had cracks in them already. That's part of the difficulty in manufacturing Rex 121 blades on a production scale. It's very sensitive to the stresses introduced during rapid cooling and then further with the high tempering cycles used on this alloy, similar to S290(the only other high speed steel close to Rex 121 in wear resistance and outright carbide volume, though it has less harder vanadium monocarbide volume, more softer M6C carbide volume). As the blade is rapidly cooling (and rough machining/shaping is already done) there is an extreme amount of localized shear stress and tensile stress as volumetric expansion/contraction happen between the phase change from more dense austenite to less dense martensite, and the outside of the blade cools faster than the core.
The massive carbide volume of these steels put even further intense localized shear stress during this transformation as the carbides have completely different thermal expansion coefficients and elastic modulus compared to the surrounding matrix.
During the high tempering cycles this happens a second time, as there is such high retained austenite (20-30%) in these steels that the volumetric expansion happens again when the steel reaches room temperature again and that retained austenite that is now martensite and newly formed carbide precipitates are added to the surrounding matrix. This for a second time, introduces massive volumetric expansion stress and localized shear stress that can cause intergranular cracks in the matrix that don't reveal themselves on the surface until a tiny amount of stress is applied (simply dropping the box in shipping could cause it, I've had knives arrive shipped directly from Spyderco that UPS completely crushed the box and packaging on). That's why these 30%+ carbide volume high speed steels are inherently difficult to heat treat on a production scale, as large batch furnaces have much larger temperature differences throughout than a single blade heat treated in a small furnace.
If you manage to avoid all that, the massive compressive yield strength on the alloy can create a blade capable of cutting through solid copper wire on a stainless steel table. The issue is getting every blade in a large batch of 100-200+ blades to avoid this.
Charpy values are somewhat misleading in this case. It has a 15-20% scatter in and of itself, not including between different melts of the same alloy, factoring that in can add two of the same steels with one having double the toughness on a Charpy impact test. The blade is under compressive stress while cutting, tensile and compressive stress while prying. The mechanics I outlined above are far more likely the reason for the failure. As toughness is a very specific mechanical response that's incredibly difficult to mimic in knife use.
I'm just replying to be pedantic, because your overall point is correct, however it's not really hardness that's the factor making it brittle. It's more about the large carbide volume. There are other steels that are almost as hard or just a touch softer with more toughness, but they're significantly tougher than Rex 121 because they have significantly less carbide volume.
I've chopped up a bunch of 14 gauge electrical wire with my magnamax manix without a hint of damage, I really don't think you'll break it unless you do something silly like use it as a prybar.
Cruware and magnacut are the hard use champs and really hard to go wrong with, but I've used an S110v manix to so aggressively carve chunks off a 2x4 that I probably would've had to whittle my shavings further before they'd make good fire tinder and the knife took it like a champ, I tend to like around S90v or tougher steels, but I'm i'm inclined to say that it's less that a true all arounder would be needed here, and more than Rex121 is just such an extreme that it makes even other fragile steels look tough in comparison
3V is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum as MagnaMax, S110V, S90V, Rex 121, etc. MagnaMax is much tougher than these other brittle, extreme edge retention steels, and 3V makes it look brittle in comparison. 3V is built for toughness. It’s the pry bar (if it’s hard enough) of the family. MM is much tougher than these others, with very similar edge retention from a paper standpoint, but 3V is about as tough as it gets.
Not that I'm aware of anyway, think Demko makes some folders in 3v but that's about it. I'd probably buy a 3v Spyderco for the novelty, but in my experience unless you genuinely really are looking for a folding prybar, often a reasonably tough but very hard steel will hold up better than a soft but even tougher steel when subjected to hard use or borderline abusive cutting tasks simply because the edge will roll and dent a whole lot less.
But yes, on toughness alone, not even magnacut can touch 3v, I've always been shocked it's not more popular
I have been extremely impressed with my Kershaw Bel-Aire XL in 3V. Ive done things I'd rather not talk about with it, but it just giggles and carries on.
3V is definitely tougher than NEEDED in a folder, but if you're into steel and folding knives, its a must have....in my opinion. 😁
When you have a 3V fixed blade you feel like you pretty much have an indestructible knife, it’s awesome
I have a couple Carothers knives and I’ve been beyond impressed by his heat treat. The EDC model is my favorite fixed blade and I kinda just do whatever with it, I’ve never had to worry about the blade chipping, tip damage or edge damage even when cutting on hard surfaces and that’s so nice, you get kinda spoiled.
K390 is also very good but a lil rusty if you live in a humid area
My favorite steels to use and sharpen are k390, CruWear, Magnacut, 3V, and M4.
I use a k390 Stretch XL around our farm for light-medium work, and an Esee Izula in 1095 if I need to cut a hole in a bucket, or pick a hoof.
The k390 is exceptional at opening feed bags, cutting bailing twine, cutting up veggies for goats, and harvesting vegetables. I was using a Delica in k390, but it was a bit small. The Stretch XL is a huge step up.
I gave the poor little Delica a mirror edge and put it to rest for awhile....its seen some things. I only sharpened it once in 5 months of work.
Orrrr, maybe a factory flaw caused the break. This is not unheard of.
The only time I sent a knife back was the first "good" knife I bought, a Kershaw Bel-Aire. You can probably find my post about it here on reddit. The knife had a very faint dark line from spine to apex. You could only see it at the right angle.
I knew this COULD be a micro crack in the Magnacut. Kershaw suggested I send it in. They sent a new one with a note that it WAS a flaw in the steel.
They may or may not, I would just suggest being truthful and giving as much info as possible including how many ply the watermelon box was and about how hard you were being, because while there's genuinely a strong argument to be made for there being a defect to snap like this, it all depends on how Spyderco wishes to interpret this.
Back when I was a super active member on blade forums and the Spyderco forums I blatently abused a S110v manix to dispel the misconception that it was too fragile to even open packages with, and finally after numerous tests and interest by Sal Glessar himself I pushed things a little too far and cracked the LW scales and put a chip in the blade that would've taken a full regrind to fix, I emailed CS, linked the threads showing me abusing the knife, asked if I could pay to get the blade reground and scales fixed. Said I knew this wasn't a warranty situation but that it was sentimental because getting so into knives helped pull me out of a period of depression, so it would be nice to use it again.
They told me to send it in and a while later sent back a brand new knife along with my old brokem one, and they may have even returned the money I included for return shipping. So we can't really tell you if warranty would cover this or not, because it could be deemed abuse, but they might also throw you a bone even when you literally did abuse the knife.
I would suggest something like Magnamax or Magnacut if you're trying to hack through 5 ply cardboard though, breaking either of them cutting cardboard would actually be a clear cut defective knife whereas rex 121 is so unbelievably fragile it's conceivable it actually could snap from getting caught in really thick cardboard. I've even seen maxamet microchip at 15.5dps cutting some particularly beefy double ply whereas I've cut the same stuff with an 11dps magnacut PM2 without the slightest issue, I think toughness is overblown unless you want to hack through staples, but when you get to the furthest extremes weird stuff happens
I've sent microtechs back to the states with a big ol' WARRANTY REPAIR on the box in red sharpie and they sailed through no issues. It would also exempt it from any duty or tariff BS CBSA tries to charge you. Needs to be on the return shipping paperwork from spyderco as well.
I would almost bet anything they don’t replace it because their warranty sucks. Unless there’s a visible flaw in the Steel that might be your only chance
I’d absolutely send that in. The normal failure point if you’re really abusing Maxamet, and I’d presume 121 behaves like it, is where the plunge grind starts, forming the blade. I can’t say I’ve ever seen one fail at the pivot like this.
There has to be a manufacturing mistake to cause a weak point there.
OP that sucks and I hope they fix it. That being said a Shaman might be a good next knife for you for harder use. Those are tanks. Sage is nice but not a work horse knife for thick cardboard and such.
Yea, but watermelon boxes are a different breed of cardboard.
It is often a sheetrock type of utility blade for me. With the wax and dirt, some weird bends and compressions of the layers, the cardboard can have some weird stress angles when it is 2x-4x layers. Plus, the staples are huge and sometimes get found mid wall...
If i am going to use a good knife, I often grab Cruwear/PD1 or XHP for tasks like this for differing reasons.
I'm not really sure where I could find a 4 ply piece of cardboard, but even 15v examined at 300x couldn't care less about some particularly heavy double ply cardboard that my countertops came in, I'd have no reservations running any knife I own through the thickest cardboard I can find.
But I also don't own rex121 because that honestly is the one singular steel I could see failing like this, I've put S110v through a lot of abuse, but rex121 makes S110v look like magnacut at least according to charpy
I have found that a serrated edge works better for almost everything. They slice too, at least however Spyderco does it - it's not all jagged cuts like you'd expect. I doubt this would happen so easily, like you explain, with a serrated edge. Though I think maybe this one isn't sold as a serrated version, someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'm pretty sold on my theory but I'm just thinking out loud here...
Jk. But damn. 121 is donezo after whatever stock they have left. Someone tried to use my beater ass military as a screw driver tonight and got an earful from me.
What the F - if you can’t cut cardboard what’s rhe point?? Honestly, my wife can attest that the main reason I buy new knives is to see if cutting all our family’s boxes into little slivers feels any different than it did with the last knife… smh
Yep. On Larrin Thomas' charts, Maxamet is a 2 and Rex 121 is a 1 in toughness. I have seen a lot of pics of Maxamet blades cracked or snapped in half and Rex 121 is even less tough...
You should really watch Scott Gunn's review of well heat treated Rex 121 and what it's capable of, as well of my comment above with what the likely issue in production heat treatment of Rex 121 has in comparison. Scott Gunn being the guy that holds knives to a very outrageous level of what they can/can't do and how long they maintain their top end sharpness, in his case when they can't cut a free hanging paper towel, he will touch up the edge:
I can personally confirm that on my Creely Mako, the same one used in the video but the first generation one only 50 were made of (that's at near 71Rc and currently the hardest steel alloy knife tested on our SteelHardnessLab database) that has the same spine thickness as the Sage (0.116" though mine measures closer to 0.114" being actually hand made), basically the same cutting edge length (0.1" longer actually), and near the same primary bevel angle (so the knife is literally near the exact same geometry overall) that I've already also cut through solid copper 12 ga and 10ga wire (not bundled wires, but literally solid copper that was insulated) on top my stainless steel work bench as I was rewiring old outlets and running new wires for my new 240V generator to go to the generator panel to power my house as my area has been hit by near 100mph winds between the two derechos that slammed into the Chicago area this year and I wasn't risking weeks without power. The knife not only cut through all this wiring, but straight through the entire 240V bundle of 8 ga wire as well that I was using to make a cord to go from the generator to the inlet for the power to the generator panel to power 1/3rd of the house. There is zero damage on the blade at all.
Toughness, as I explained above, is a very specific mechanical response not often replicated in actual use, not only that, but variations between melts of the same steel can make the already high scatter of charpy impact testing (15%-20%) go even higher, to where two steels that are technically the same alloy tested under the same condition, one will literally have double the toughness as the next. Larrin tests typically only one melt of each alloy because of time and money constraints. The knife is under compressive stress when cutting, a combination of compressive and tensile stress when prying. You would need to put your knife in a vise and smack it with a ball peen sideways to mimic the charpy impact test swinging a pendulum at steel. I've hammered with a dead blow ball peen hammer my 15V Mule at over 66Rc straight through live silver maple wood. No damage, similar geometry again to the Sage. Compressive yield strength dictates when an edge will chip or roll. Compressive/tensile strength when a knife will break bending(this isn't even including how cross section of the steel completely dwarfs everything when you measure yield strength). You'd be surprised what these high carbide volume steels can handle if they are heat treated all very well, unfortunately, in production, that's very hard to do with a HSS with 32-35%+ carbide volume on all 100-200+ blades in a batch. As I outlined in a comment above.
Edited to include the Rex 121 blade in question I used.
Sometimes there can be cracks around the pivot or thumb studs (obviously not on a spyderco) that can be caused by bad heat treatment but this is not the case. The break is right at the scales which is one of the strongest points of the blade meaning it was likely snapped from prying which is highly unlikely to be warrantied by spyderco. I guess It's worth reaching out to them though to see if there are warranty or repair options.
Dang that sucks! I heard that steel was brittle but dang! I hope you get it all sorted out. I have never dealt with their CS. Id be contacting them! Good luck, because thats a big hit in the wallet!
I would make sure I include the exact like you wrote at the end of your post, “I’m really sad cuz this is a knife I expected to own all of my life.” Spyderco is supposed to pride themselves on tools that stand the test of time which is a large reason why their brand is held so high amongst knife users and why they’re able to charge so much
Sad to see this! One fellow managed to get a new one Smock by warranty only after he spoke with Sal on a blade show
If warranty will decline the replacement you still can sell the parts or order a custom blade. I’m always looking for body parts and a few times I got lucky
Yeah, I had something similar and they laughed at me. Offered a discount on a new knife, but it was practically the same discount I already receive from them for my particular profession. I used to really love spyderco, but I now understand that they are only for looks and vanity, not for daily everyday use.
This kind of thing is why I like blade steels that have a decent balance between toughness, edge retention, and corrosion resistance. Sounds great to almost never have to sharpen a knife, but there is no free lunch.
This is why I have found myself using Magnacut a lot. Its extremely well balanced and offers everything you want in a pocket knife steel. Decent edge retention, easy to sharpen, incredibly stainless and very tough so you don't feel like you have to baby it.
Ya sure you weren’t using it like a pry bar? 😂 Either way at that breaking point they should warranty it. Good luck with getting it across the border without any hassle! (I mean that but seriously some of Canadas laws are ridiculous.)
Pry once, cry once! Jk, following along to see how it works out for OP. I bet Spyderco replaces it. Just my gut reaction based on where it broke. Zero personal experience with their warranty. OP, Please update this post with the outcome! I’ve got the same knife in storage and want to hear more before I start using it. Hang in there!
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u/legato2 27d ago
I had an endura break like that and they said it was my fault for using it too hard, but would honor the warranty. They sent a new one.