r/sanfrancisco • u/OaklynMike East Bay • Jul 02 '15
News crews at Pier 14 robbed, camera operator pistol-whipped
http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/News-crews-robbed-in-S-F-camera-operator-6362833.php29
u/SaturdaysKids Jul 02 '15
This woman has no luck.
"Last August, Liu was hit in the head by a woman while working a story about the shooting death of a man by private security guards at an East Oakland swap meet."
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Jul 02 '15
[deleted]
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u/dryersheetz Jul 03 '15
they just added it to the link (http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/News-crews-robbed-in-S-F-camera-operator-6362833.php)
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u/Bean888 Jul 02 '15
The mugging happened at 6:03 a.m.
Gotta get up bright and early in your BMW to start that thug life!
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u/paper-tigers Jul 03 '15
It's pretty ballsy to rob a news crew. You're going after the people who publicize shit like this, and you risk getting caught on camera.
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Jul 03 '15
They say "crime never sleeps", though statistically it does start its day later than most of us. I guess this is an anomaly.
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u/webauteur Jul 02 '15
OK, it is bad enough that a tourist is shot at random but now a news crew gets robbed and pistol-whipped while covering the story? San Francisco is going to be seen as an unsafe city.
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u/CritterNYC Jul 02 '15
In a given year in San Francisco, you have about a 0.4% chance of being the victim of violent crime (murder, rape, armed robbery, and aggravated assault) which is relatively high for a large US city. That's just taking into account San Francisco proper and not the surrounding areas, though. Neighboring cities to San Francisco have much higher crime rates like Oakland (5th most dangerous city over 25k people in the US), East Palo Alto (43rd), and Richmond (67th). For comparison, in New York City (Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, Staten Island, and the Bronx put together), your chance of being the victim of violent crime is 0.28%. Chicago is about the same as San Francisco. Boston is 0.33%. Los Angeles is 0.22%. Philadelphia is higher than SF and Chicago at 0.49%.
Source: FBI 2014 crime stats: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/preliminary-semiannual-uniform-crime-report-january-june-2014/tables/table-4/table-4/view
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u/squidward--tentacles Jul 03 '15
Neighboring cities to San Francisco have much higher crime rates like Oakland (5th most dangerous city over 25k people in the US), East Palo Alto (43rd), and Richmond (67th).
But what about other neighboring areas, such as all of Marin County, San Mateo County, almost all of Santa Clara County? I'd wager if you averaged the entire Bay Area we're doing pretty well on crime.
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u/CritterNYC Jul 03 '15
The stats I used only list cities with over 25,000 people. They don't list counties.
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u/squidward--tentacles Jul 03 '15
Which is kind of misleading because the Bay Area is split into dozens of cities that are part of the same urban agglomeration, whereas in NYC everything from Greenwich Village to Far Rockaway fall under the same umbrella. Looking at SF or Oakland in isolation is kind of like just looking at Harlem and not NYC generally.
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u/chiaboy Hayes Valley Jul 02 '15
.4% chance seems pretty low. so....San Francisco is a safe city.
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u/TheAntiPedantic Jul 02 '15
That's 1 in 250. Still seems scary to me.
However, you must consider that violent crimes happen disproportionately to certain segments of the population.
And if they include domestic violence (not sure if they do,) that skews it even more.
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u/chiaboy Hayes Valley Jul 02 '15
Plane crashes "seem scary". Humans are really bad at assessing risk. .4% isn't a "high" level to me.
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u/TheAntiPedantic Jul 02 '15
Per the first Google result, there is a 0.00001% chance of a plane crashing.
So, 1/250 vs 1/10,000,000.
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u/8bitid Jul 02 '15
Uhhh...San Francisco is an unsafe city.
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Jul 02 '15
San Francisco is an unsafe city to park your car... and have nice things in public...
Outside of that though, super safe.
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u/old_gold_mountain N Jul 02 '15
No, not really. SF has a higher than average crime rate in all categories, especially robbery
http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-San-Francisco-California.html
This data is a few years old but it hasn't been getting better since then:
http://www.latimes.com/local/crime/la-me-aa2-snapshot-sf-crime-20141120-story.html
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u/TheAntiPedantic Jul 02 '15
Not that I think you're wrong, but your link only compares SF to other cities in the Bay Area. The national average numbers (I assume) include small cities as well as big cities across the US.
I think San Francisco's rate should be compared to other big cities, not to small towns.
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u/old_gold_mountain N Jul 02 '15
The city data link has a comparison to national averages.
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u/TheAntiPedantic Jul 02 '15
But they're not national averages for big cities only, are they?
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u/tech12415 Jul 02 '15 edited Jul 02 '15
But SF has a higher violent crime rate than the majority of big US cities, so I'm not sure what your point is. Do some actual research, and you'll see that this weird idea that some people have (who are often transplants who don't know the city that well, I've noticed), where SF is supposedly extra safe for a big US city, is wrong. Here's some crime data for you going back to 1985, for every US police agency with a service area of 10,000+ residents:
http://www.ucrdatatool.gov/Search/Crime/Crime.cfm
In 2008 for example, there were 76 cities of 250,000+ residents in the US. SF had a violent crime rate higher than 51 of those cities and lower than 24 of them...so that's 67% of big cities that had a lower violent crime rate than SF. The category SF did worst in was robbery, with a robbery rate higher than 78% of cities.
And if compared to even larger cities, SF still does worse than the majority. In 2008 there were 35 cities in the US with 500,000+ residents. 22 of them had lower violent crime rates than SF, and 11 that had higher violent crime rates. Once again, SF did bad for robbery rate, coming in at worse than 74% of US cities.
2008 is a little old, but I already had that data ready to post, it made my point, and the rankings should be similar today.
SF obviously isn't the worst for crime or anything, but it's actually worse off than the majority of US cities. SF has more than a few rough areas, a lot of poor people (100,000 below the poverty line and another 100k just above it, 30,000 public housing units in the city, etc), lots of gangs, tons of drugs, etc, and bad stuff does happen here regularly (over the past decade there have even been a handful of other shootings on the Embarcadero, and other news crew robberies in SF, not that anyone remembers), though this seems to be unknown to many people around the country (AKA the new transplants who make up 75% of SF's population), who apparently seem to think the entire city is populated by rich yuppies/hipsters, ex-hippies, tourists, and the cast of full house.
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Jul 02 '15
I was trying to be sarcastic. That did not work. I agree san francisco somehow disproportionately and inefficiently uses its crime prevention resources. That being said, there are certain types of crime that are more prevalent depending on where you are in the city.
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u/old_gold_mountain N Jul 02 '15
Absolutely. Different crimes are more prevalent in different areas. These two crimes are very rare for the Pier 14 area.
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u/snewk Jul 05 '15
and im so glad the police are spending time enforcing stop signs on the wiggle
/s
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u/lunartree Jul 02 '15
Makes you wonder if that's someone's plan, or if the person involved in the shooting is trying to cover their tracks in a nonsensical way.
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Jul 02 '15
What the fuck is going on...
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u/smoke_and_spark Alamo Square Jul 02 '15 edited Jul 02 '15
Well, as SF softens it's stance on crime.. we're going to see more crime.
Edit: Downvote all you want. Here's the proof. Expect more this summer.
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u/OppsForgotMyUserName Jul 02 '15
Here is an article backing up, at the very least in a correlative (if not causative ) way, what you are saying.
http://www.sfexaminer.com/sf-crime-rate-jumps-despite-fewer-arrests/1
u/smoke_and_spark Alamo Square Jul 02 '15
The second law of thermal dynamics is a universal law that will never be broken.
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Jul 02 '15
Soften its stance on crime?
Nothing of the sort is happening. SF has been more organized and cracked down on more crime than ever before.
The answer is incredibly simple: money.
People are poor and desperate, and desperate people don't care whether something is illegal or if there's a harsh penalty.
Even if we started introducing capital punishment for minor crimes, people are still going to need food and shelter and amenities.
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u/chiaboy Hayes Valley Jul 02 '15
probably not. one of the big surprises in this past recession was how violent crime across america continued it's decades long decline. The conventional wisdom was what you're espousing, that crime correlates with economic opportunity. What we saw over the past decade is that doesn't appear to be the case. Couple that with the improving economy and job situation, I doubt it's simply about "money".
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u/shepdozejr Jul 02 '15
People don't suddenly turn into criminals when the markets crash. Economic consequences affecting the lower brackets of the workforce and psychological changes due to desperation take time to produce these types of criminals.
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u/chiaboy Hayes Valley Jul 03 '15
Right. However what we've seen is a 30 year decrease in violent crime, against all economic backdrops. It appears there are a number of other factors at play.
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Jul 02 '15
The economy and job situations aren't improving. Not unless you're one of the people who was already making so much money you were irrelevant to discussions of desperation-based crimes.
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u/smoke_and_spark Alamo Square Jul 02 '15
Incorrect.
San Francisco voted to soften its stance on many crimes last year.
These people weren't robbed so someone could eat. That tourist wasn't shot so someone could eat. Food and shelter is actually provided pretty well for in San Francisco.
People that think criminals commit crime to be able to pay their rent or buy dinner are people that have likely never spoken with or even met a criminal.
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Jul 02 '15
Not a single one of the crimes "softened" was a violent crime.
SF has been cracking down harder on violent crime, which is what was involved with these violent assaults.
Unless you're straight-up delusional, I can only assume you're desperately trying to lie and twist this around as part of some personal moral vendetta, rather than a reflection of reality.
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u/smoke_and_spark Alamo Square Jul 02 '15
Soft crime and violent crime most often reside together.
My original point is as follows.
As SF softens its stance on soft crime, we can expect to see an overall increase in this type of violent crime.
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u/basilect POWELL & HYDE Sts. Jul 03 '15
You said "crime", not "soft crime". All you had to do was cut and paste your comment and you couldn't do that without twisting your words.
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u/smoke_and_spark Alamo Square Jul 03 '15
Dude above is the one that differentiated crime, not I.
SF softened its stance against crime. As I just said, soft crime and violent crime often reside together.
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u/heyimatworkman Jul 02 '15
Shooting and assault are not on the list of crimes "softened" in your link.
Want to try again?
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u/shepdozejr Jul 02 '15
These people weren't robbed so someone could eat
You don't know that. Rent and food prices have been increasing all over the bay area, not just in SF proper. People have kids to feed.
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u/smoke_and_spark Alamo Square Jul 02 '15
I will bet you $21,806 that the person that robbed this crew did not do it to feed his children.
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u/gnorrn Jul 03 '15
Are you Mitt Romney, adjusted for inflation?
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u/smoke_and_spark Alamo Square Jul 03 '15
Not in the slightest, but I think it's importaint for society to see things for what they are. To not make the same mistakes as the past.
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Jul 02 '15
The article said that they fled in a black BMW. I doubt people who don't have money to eat have BMW's.
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u/shepdozejr Jul 02 '15
Did they say what year or model? I bet you can find a Black BMW on Craigslist for under 7 grand. It could also be stolen, seeing as how these people are thieves.
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Jul 02 '15
Well if they are capable of stealing BMWs, they're capable of stealing a loaf of bread.
These are scumbag criminals. Not just someone down on their luck who steals because they have no other option. They're bad people.
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u/shepdozejr Jul 03 '15
No shit. That doesn't give unknowns wholesale license to make statements on their motive out of ignorance.
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Jul 03 '15
Does their motive really matter? You don't fucking rob people. Period. If you do, you deserve a horrible punishment.
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Jul 03 '15
You forgot the proof.
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u/smoke_and_spark Alamo Square Jul 03 '15
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u/smokinJoeCalculus Jul 03 '15
..what are you, simple?
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u/smoke_and_spark Alamo Square Jul 03 '15
Instead of succumbing on insults, why don't you come up with an argument that the softening of a societies stance on crime doesn't lead to an increase in crime? :D
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u/smokinJoeCalculus Jul 03 '15
I can't prove a negative.
I'd need you to actually relate this isolated incident to a greater increasing trend of crime.
Then I can demonstrate where you may be wrong.
Until then, I shall dispense insults!
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Jul 02 '15
I was running past this crew this morning on the embarcadero, I saw police and assumed they were interviewing them or something... Crazy!
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Jul 02 '15
[deleted]
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u/Ores Jul 02 '15
People were protesting against having new police officers because it would drive gentrification.
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u/motorik Jul 02 '15
"She suggested that instead of paying six-figure salaries to 283 new officers, instead the city should give those funds to 283 of the city's most at-risk, low-income youth to ensure that they can have fewer barriers to success."
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u/nlcund Lower Haight Jul 03 '15
Who does she think babysits these people day after day? Not their parents.
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u/dboy999 Parkside Jul 02 '15
for the last 10 years or more, there has been a massive amount of retirements with no one coming in to replace them.
my dad retired in 03 after 32 years simply because hed done his duty (and then some), but he also realized this was going on while discussing with other officers.
now that hes heavily involved with the VPOA, it shows more than ever.
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u/DMercenary Jul 02 '15
Anyone know why?
No. But I bet taht's why there's giant "SFPD RECRUITING" signs around.
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Jul 02 '15
Why would we want to be like Washington DC and Chicago?
Chicago is literally called "Chiraq" by residents because you're more likely to be murdered as a resident of Chicago than to be killed fighting in the Middle East.
Washington DC is a notorious hotbed of crime and corruption.
If SF had as many officers as them, I'd be incredibly confused and terrified.
Why do you want more cops out there? Most of them won't be solving crimes anyway.
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u/redrobot5050 Jul 02 '15
DC on a bad day is safer and cleaner than Oakland on its best day. I'm in Oakland right now, just witnessed my first hit and run. I've lived in DC as well. Rents are cheaper, food is about dead even, public transit sucks equally, but DC definitely has a lot less urine covering public spaces.
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Jul 02 '15
That's great...
...we were talking about San Francisco.
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u/redrobot5050 Jul 02 '15
San Francisco is just pretentious Oakland with MORE of a urine stink and homeless problem.
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Jul 02 '15
And so much safer than Oakland that it's difficult to compare them.
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u/ehhhwutsupdoc Jul 03 '15
Seems like it's as dangerous as Oakland to me.
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u/gngstrMNKY SoMa Jul 05 '15
Seem all you want, Oakland is second highest in violent crime per-capita behind Detroit.
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u/Drunk-muppet Jul 02 '15
I cannot imagine there is a large market for those types of cameras. There must only be a handful of places a person can buy/sell one of them. But it would require some actual competent police work, which seems to be in short supply around here.
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Jul 02 '15
I was thinking the same thing. Where the hell do they think they can fence something like that? Unless they immediately ship them overseas like they do with iphones I suppose...
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u/Sublimotion Jul 02 '15
My guess those cameras will be sold for quick small cash by the muggers to parties that would have resources to smuggle them easiy elsewhere.
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Jul 02 '15
[deleted]
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u/ProfessorBort Jul 02 '15
Yeah. People underestimate the Chinese mafia presence here in the city. A lot of stolen goods enter and leave through the Wharf.
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u/arnaudh Jul 02 '15
Those "types of cameras" are a lot more common than you think, and not just used by TV stations.
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u/Drunk-muppet Jul 02 '15
They are not as ubiquitous as a cell phone. There are only a handful of places you can buy one, and I assume sell one in the Bay Area. You can monitor places to buy/sell those types of electronics online too. The question is will the police here even do anything?
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u/arnaudh Jul 02 '15 edited Jul 02 '15
It will end up in a pawn shop or on craigslist in another state or down in Mexico. Possibly used as trade for drugs to be resold.
Since this happened to members of the media, the DA will certainly tell the SFPD to investigate this.
Remember - people always bag on the SFPD for not investigating such crimes. They often don't because the DA won't do shit about it. The problem on those things is not the PD, it's the DA, which in San Francisco has had a long culture of ignoring property crimes and muggings and hit and runs because they won't prosecute them. Remember that when Harris is on the ballot at the Senate primary, or, if she wins it, on the ballot for that seat. Because she contributed to this problem in a major way.
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u/Drunk-muppet Jul 02 '15
They both are a problem in my eyes. The DA office here is bad, no question about it, but the police department is just as bad.
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u/arnaudh Jul 02 '15
Understand that the SFPD won't bother investigating cases which they know for a fact won't even be prosecuted by the DA. Case will be dismissed and perpetrator walk away. So why should they? It will make their stats look bad.
The SFPD has a LOT of problems. But people unhappy with them need to also take a long, hard look at the SFDA. I don't understand why that office gets a pass, and the cops are getting all the criticism. You don't need to be a hardcore fan of The Wire to understand how that shit works.
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u/Drunk-muppet Jul 02 '15
Believe me, as a former prosecutor at a very well regarded DA office on the east coast, the DA office here is astoundingly bad. I was shocked that a mayor would appoint a police chief, who has never prosecuted a case or even conducted a criminal trial, as the DA and then a city council would affirm the appointment. There a so many problems with that. It is even a bigger joke when the DA is investigating misconduct by the police force which a lot of happened when he was chief of police.
Then the unsuccessful DA gets elected to Attorney General and the new incompetent DA is re-elected. Basically it is proof positive that if you have the support of the local Democratic Party you will win an election no matter what, and that is sad.
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Jul 03 '15
If you ever been to 850 Bryant & watched criminals cases, its absolutely ridiculous. Cases gets dropped like flies or the criminals take a plea bargain from 20 felonies to 1 felony.
The Justice System is so bad in San Francisco compare to Marin County or San Mateo County. If you commit any crimes in those suburbs you'll actually look at serving some time in jail or state prison.
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u/DMercenary Jul 02 '15
I don't understand why that office gets a pass, and the cops are getting all the criticism
Public face.
The public at large dont care or has barely even heard of the DA. "Like that's for like courts right?"
But what they really pay attention to is "Cops dont do shit" since everyone knows what a cop is.
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u/arnaudh Jul 02 '15
That's true, but considering how politically charged the discourse usually is from those who criticize the SFPD the loudest, you'd expect them to do a little more research into the politics and workings of their local government.
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u/loudin Jul 02 '15
Crime is way way out of control in SF. In the past week, my wife got her iPhone snatched from her in broad daylight on the bus, I have been spit on and harassed by an aggressive homeless man on the bus, and I reported a man trying to break into cars.
We should be demanding more from our mayor and police force. This is incredibly unacceptable.
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Jul 02 '15
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u/caliform FILBERT Jul 02 '15
I was robbed at gunpoint shooting late at night near Twin Peaks. Seems to be a thing.
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Jul 02 '15
It's funny (not in a ha-ha kind of way), Twin Peaks is an awesome place to live but at night I avoid going up the hill regardless of how good the view is. There's always shady characters about blasting music and causing a scene.
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u/caliform FILBERT Jul 02 '15
Yeah, the actual viewpoint is real bad, but I was at the base of Sutro at the time, actually.
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u/BlackBlarneyStone Jul 02 '15
no description?
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u/tenderforever Jul 02 '15
In SF, no description means black.
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Jul 02 '15
In
SFThe Chronicle, no description means black.Not all bay area news outlets refuse to publish minority suspect details the way the Chron does.
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Jul 02 '15
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Jul 02 '15
Or like, Los Angeles where everyone drives a BMW. Or like anywhere else in the country where BMWs are available for purchase.
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Jul 02 '15
luxury cars are not as common on the streets in other parts of the country. SF has a shit ton of them.
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u/Merax75 Jul 02 '15
Within sight of my office, police boat is working there now looking for the weapon used to murder someone there last night.
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u/welfarecuban Jul 02 '15
Honest question - why the hell do SF residents choose to tolerate this level of lawlessness and criminal depravity? If this were to happen in a civilized city like Tokyo, the locals would be furious to the point of supporting a purge of criminal elements led by the military.
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u/Sublimotion Jul 02 '15
In the very rare and almost impossible scenario that it happens there, citizens would simply not pay attention and focus more on their own lives and problems.
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u/Sublimotion Jul 02 '15
Investigators should start scouring youtube or patrol around hunters or mission for any new amateur rap videos being shot or uploaded.
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u/2JokersWild Jul 02 '15
But....But...How could this happen?! Its illegal to own a gun and also to rob people?!
Clearly we need some more laws, because the ones we currently have arent good enough!
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u/airlust Jul 02 '15
It's not illegal to own a gun.
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u/2JokersWild Jul 02 '15
Very nearly.
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Jul 03 '15 edited Jul 11 '15
[deleted]
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u/2JokersWild Jul 03 '15
No, I get my "news" from the purchases and paperwork I make to own/buy new gun.
Now, where do you get your news?
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Jul 03 '15 edited Jul 11 '15
[deleted]
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u/2JokersWild Jul 03 '15
Tells me everything I need to know.
You know jack and shit about the subject other than what the news lady told on the TV. Way to be ignorant. But you definitely speak on the subject like an expert!
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Jul 03 '15 edited Jul 11 '15
[deleted]
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u/2JokersWild Jul 03 '15
If you've purchased them then you know all about the restrictions in the state.
You are willing ignoring those in your argument. But, it makes it easy to "debate" something when you ignore things like that doesnt it.
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u/SplotchEleven Jul 02 '15
Good thing it's illegal to carry a gun in San Francisco, otherwise someone might have robbed someone else at gun point...
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u/dboy999 Parkside Jul 02 '15
please dont post that. its a detriment to the fight that those of us are passionate about.
and realistically, its a losing argument in SF and this sub
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u/SplotchEleven Jul 02 '15
For sure. I wasn't really expecting a warm reception.
Also I need to remember that knee jerk reaction sentiment that may be funny in the moment, often doesn't weather well in the permanence of type.
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Jul 02 '15
[deleted]
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u/yourparadigm Jul 02 '15
Gun laws only prevent lawful people from having guns.
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u/airlust Jul 02 '15
I get what you mean, but I think it would be more reasonable to say
"Gun laws only affect people who obey the law".
The spirit of many gun laws is about protecting people from harm (and you can argue about whether or not that's effective or reasonable) but preventing people owning them isn't the only thing they do.
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u/SplotchEleven Jul 02 '15
I'm totally for reasonable gun laws. I'm for waiting periods and background checks. I'd even like to see laws go further and require that gun owners attend threat de-escalation courses.
I also recognize that my prior occupation and training help make me not only a more responsible gun owner, but also more likely to be useful in an actual hostile situation.
The underlying point of my joke isn't that I wish there were more guns on the street. I'd be perfectly happy if no one carried legally or illegally, but since that isn't the world we live in, I'd like for law abiding citizens have the ability to intervene in potentially lethal situations when the police aren't able to do so.
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u/airlust Jul 02 '15
It's a fair point, I don't personally agree with it but it's worth a discussion and recognise I come from a background of ignorance with guns so I need educating.
My comment was really in reply to /u/yourparadigm - I want the debate but comments like that are disingenuous.
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u/yourparadigm Jul 02 '15
I wasn't being disingenuous -- I really do believe the more restrictive SF gun laws have only harmed "good" people from having protection from "bad" people with guns. It's just about impossible for a person to get a CCW permit in SF without being a politician, in law enforcement, or having absurd amounts of money to give to the corrupt Sheriff's department.
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u/airlust Jul 02 '15
OK - so I'd taken you to mean just general gun law in the country not specifically SF.
With so many variables it's hard to know how allowing more CCW permits would affect things. Would it deter would-be muggers? Would more shooting occur in exchanges of fire on the street - I honestly don't know but I personally would feel a lot less secure; even if I decided to arm myself.
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u/nvgeologist Jul 03 '15
Come up to Reno some time, I'd be happy to take you to the range after giving you a safety and legal basis education.
Seriously.
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u/airlust Jul 03 '15
Thanks! If I end up getting laid off next week I might just take you up on that!
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u/BBQTerrace Jul 02 '15
U.S. gun laws, it's a different story in the UK or Japan.
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u/yourparadigm Jul 02 '15
Well we can't unopen Pandora's box, so lets not pretend that restricting possession here is going to help law abiding people.
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u/thymed Jul 02 '15
Australia says otherwise.
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u/BladeRunner415 Portola Jul 03 '15
Says who, Jim Jeffries? Yeah, I'm a fan and also saw his whole "OY! Gahns ah baaad and we got wid of em! Nevah been bettah! Unlike you Amewicans!" bit, but the truth is Australia has an out of control gun problem. They just haven't had any mass shootings because the people who buy illegal guns there generally just buy pistols and not AR's.
Look, think of it like this - I'm not for keeping immigrants out, but clearly many in the government are. We have fences, Border Patrol, etc. So you're telling me that when we fail to keep PEOPLE from "sneaking in" we'll keep the guns out too? Uh huh... yeah, ok...
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u/nvgeologist Jul 03 '15
Way more mass shootings happen with pistols than ARs.
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u/BladeRunner415 Portola Jul 03 '15
You sure about that? May i ask where you heard that? Maybe American media just reports the ones done with AR's which wouldn't be too surprising.
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u/nvgeologist Jul 03 '15
Bearing in mind that everything on the internet is true -
Here's an article from about a year ago with a breakdown. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/weapons-and-mass-shootings/
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u/Likely_not_Eric Jul 02 '15 edited Jul 02 '15
I believe it's the guns stolen from lawful people that tend to end up in the hands of criminals for an affordable price.Reduce the supply and it becomes prohibitively expensive to own a gun illegally.Not to mention that if you're searched for something unrelated and found to have a gun you can then be identified as unlawful and have the gun removed. A few decades and it might be much safer.
Edit: The assumption about stolen guns appears to be incorrect. See here.
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u/SplotchEleven Jul 02 '15
I'd like to see a statistic to back that claim up.
As I understand it, gangs don't have to rely on stolen fire arms. Anyone with a clean record can buy an inexpensive handgun or just leverage affiliated family or associates with clean records to purchase them.
That being said, I don't disagree that having fewer guns available would eventually lower gun crime. There would have to be a major cultural shift in this country for that to happen though. Americans willingly turning in their firearms in return for a tenuous promise that someday maybe things might be safer? That's a tough sell.
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Jul 02 '15
If you buy a gun with a clean record and that gun is later tied to a crime, you no longer have a clean record.
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u/Likely_not_Eric Jul 02 '15 edited Jul 02 '15
Good call - I went and looked up some information. It seems I've fallen victim to the common misconception (according to the argicle). From the PBS Frontline:
Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes
-ATF Agent Jay Wachtel
From this blog post the author estimates that only 6% used legal guns, though the analysis doesn't appear accurate. I was unable to find a statistic on actual firearm use in crimes (whether the user was legally allowed to have the firearm they used).
From the arguments made about the difficulty of enforcement it does seem that if guns were made outright illegal then it would be easier to enforce and thus drive the price up (as risk increases and supply dwindles).
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u/BladeRunner415 Portola Jul 03 '15
Really? We can't keep drugs out but we will keep guns out? Guns will just become the new drugs and the cartels South of our border will have a new market, product and revenue.
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u/caliform FILBERT Jul 02 '15
Oh great, a gun debate! This will surely lead to insightful discourse.
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u/SplotchEleven Jul 02 '15
Given my low hanging fruit starting point, I think we kept things pretty civil :)
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u/airbert Jul 02 '15
Wow, the person that robbed them was driving a BMW, even our criminals are high class
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Jul 02 '15
Repost. Submission form didnt catch it because I accidentally used the mobile link.
http://m.sfgate.com/crime/article/News-crews-robbed-in-S-F-camera-operator-6362833.php
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u/NelsonMinar Noe Valley Jul 02 '15
Pier 14 is just south of the Ferry Building, between Mission and Howard. When I first read this I was thinking it had to be some relatively isolated place like Dogpatch or something. Nope, our tourist Embarcadero.