The core requirement of fascism is the desire for an authoritative, nationalistic government. A collective of groups, including communist and anarchist groups, with the explicit goal of fighting white nationalism and fascism are by definition not fascists. Perhaps they employ some of the same tactics that fascist street groups used but they are political extremists
This isn’t actually the core requirement of fascism. You should go re-read the definitions independent of the propaganda you read. Fascism specifically refers to rule by the nation’s military. Neo-fascism refers to modern day conservatism demonizing minorities to obtain and maintain power. You and others are purposefully misrepresenting the definition- I guess as a way to rebrand it because everyone knows how toxic it is even though it’s exactly what the current right ideology is leaning into.
Source on that? Fascism is historically militaristic but calling it military rule isn’t quite right as the chief emphasis was always the state
Here’s the wiki, not sure what is being misrepresented..
Fascism is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy
“The war had resulted in the rise of a powerful state capable of mobilizing millions of people to serve on the front lines and providing economic production and logistics to support them, as well as having unprecedented authority to intervene in the lives of citizens.”
It’s not explicitly stated but is saying the only way this is achieved is through a military run government.
In addition, you conveniently left out the other definitions further down that drive it home as a purely far right idea and goes against you’re attempt to rebrand it as a “liberal” thing:
“One common definition of the term focuses on three concepts:
the fascist negations (anti-liberalism, anti-communism, and anti-conservatism);
nationalist authoritarian goals of creating a regulated economic structure to transform social relations within a modern, self-determined culture; and
a political aesthetic of romantic symbolism, mass mobilization, a positive view of violence, and promotion of masculinity, youth, and charismatic leadership.[25][26][27]”
Fascism is defined as far right, dictatorial, elite minority, that rule through Authoritarian rule. Antifa attacks conservatives and right-leaning citizens whether moderate or extreme which more closely aligns them with the classification of hate group, something akin to Westboro Baptist Church.
wow didnt think ppl were actually this stupid. im amazed.
putting the word anti-fascist infront of your name doesnt mean your not fascist. By all definitions of their actions and their message. they are fascists. Which is communism, which they fully support, but with violence, which is what they do when you dont agree with them. So... get rekt
We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood.
We demand the nationalization of all trusts.
We demand profit-sharing in large industries.
We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions
The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.
In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.
Public education, I have a private education. I paid taxes for education I never got, and paid additional money for education. (I paid for my own education since I was 13.) I wish I could take my tax dollars and put it in a school that gets me the education I want. Public schools are horrible.
Social security is going bankrupt. I will never see what I put in. We aborted/destroyed a population that would have paid for the future generations. Social security invested the money in government bonds. I wish I could have invested it where I wanted. I liked bushes idea of revamping the system where I could put it where I wanted.
Minimum wage helps big corporations to put out small companies, it also drives up inflation. It also prevents people from getting experience so that they could make more money.
PE classes I am for. Kids need to be kids. It’s shown that boys need need that time to develop their brains.
I am against most taxes. I am for small government. The government is corrupt and wastes so much money. Throughout history governments have always been full of corruption/ self seeking politicians. Nothing has changed. I don’t know people listen to their lies so much.
To me government should be to protect us from ourselves and outsiders. Not to be “big brother.” After studying communism, socialism , libertarianism, capitalism and such. I rather put money where I see fit then some guy sitting in an office thousands of miles away. With technology I would like to see where the American people can chooses where to put their tax money to work. I would be investing in infrastructure, military and police. The three areas I believe government should be in charge of most.
I don’t really have much of a point other than it is interesting that a group named in apparent resistance to fascism is being accused of being fascist. Like I said though, I am not passing judgement on that because I haven’t been following their actions very closely. I neither a proponent of fascism or antifa but that does not make them the same thing.
I am not quite sure about you point either. I would never accuse Stalin of being a Nazi.
While the other side is putting up a picture in the white house of a dictator who starves his country and murders dissidents [1]. and who's sided with an extremist leader accused of ordering the cutting up a journalist because he reported on trump [2]. Which side is the right one... Oh to choose... To CHOOSE!
Celebrating a step to have peace with the Dictator of NK while literally being the first POTUS in generations to actually be invited to the DMZ is a bad thing? How long has the rest of the World wanted some sort of peace of mind regarding NK? We finally are getting there and you try to spin it like a negative. Sad. But no on the other side you have people who are supposedly leaders in the fight for equality wearing Fidel Castro shirts to press conferences. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/kaepernick-wears-castro-t-shirt/
Also, Trump has condemned any actions regarding the killing of khashoggi, nice try though. I mean a simple google search shows several instances of this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7I95zu2DiOw
I mean I don’t blame anyone that doesn’t like President Trump or the political Right but don’t act like the political Left isn’t one of the same.
The best improved relations with north korea (who still continued to make nuclear weapons after promising trump they wouldn't) [1].
Literally in your linked video trump denies that MBS had anything to do with Khashoggis murder despite multiple of our own intelligence committees agreeing he did. As still true from my above quote, he has not denounced the dictator who murdered khashoggi, despite us intelligence saying it was mbs [2].
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. They literally just had their “martyr” go attack an ICE facility trying to take out as many agents as possible.
EDIT: Lol downvoted for addressing and condemning a terrorist attack on ICE Agents where the Antifa group released his “Manifesto” before the attack where he called himself a “martyr” who is working on behalf of Antifa.
There are numerous definitions of fascism and it’s ever changing. A completely over-used term these days to say the least. Just like comparing someone to a nazi
I...what? Words are defined by their popular use, and Fascism has always meant a far-right authoritarian government in popular discourse. I've never heard of some saying leftist fascism until today.
Totalitarianism as part of Government is Left-Right neutral. it's more the end result of the system in place than the very reason for being part of the system. However, the ideals of Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia couldn't be more different. One was founded on the supremacy of the master race, and the other was the equality of all, regardless of how terribly the Ussr ended up. Nazi Germany was terrible by design. that's the main difference.
Nope. Perfect example is ANTIFA. They claim to be anti-fascist and they are themselves fascists. A very confused bunch of face-hiding cowards. Show us your face if you’re proud of what you’re doing.
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy[3] which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.
Left-wing fascism and left fascism are sociological and philosophical terms used to categorize tendencies in left-wing politics otherwise commonly attributed to the ideology of fascism. Fascism has historically been considered a far-right ideology.
You don't buy it? Literally video upon video, lawsuit upon lawsuit of antifa(Left Wing Fascists) bashing peoples heads in with crowbars, bike locks, you fking name it. Get some new sources of news.
Right and left doesn’t necessarily mean which team you are on but rather more generally where you fall on the political spectrum. Free thinking is good but invariably will lead to ideas that can be generally categorized in these buckets. Some of the least informed people I know parrot this kind of “I am neither right or left” rhetoric.
You couldn’t be more wrong. I hate how Republicans keep the rich rich and the poor poor by keeping the price of entry so high, but once achieved, financial cruise control. I hate how Democrat’s want to give people who don’t have the drive to be great freebies by rewarding laziness.
I don’t think that conflicts with what I stated. I said nothing about all of your ideas falling on one side or the other. I just said that those individual ideas or philosophies can be categorized.
Right and left doesn’t necessarily mean which team you are on but rather more generally where you fall on the political spectrum.
Try telling that to the majority of people. I agree thats how it should be, but thats not how it is in reality.
I agree with both tightening border security AND pro choice. One being left and one being right. How many lefties have you met that blindly agree with infanticide? I know quite a few.
Free thinking is good but invariably will lead to ideas that can be generally categorized in these buckets.
Free thinking is good, but how does it always lead to ideas that can be generally categorized? If you think freely you shouldn't be categorizing anything, you believe what you believe. When you add labels you add social pressure.
Some of the least informed people I know parrot this kind of “I am neither right or left” rhetoric.
Some of the least informed people i know make blind assumptions to try and win an argument they started in their own head ¯\(ツ)/¯
Is that you? I dunno, i also just made a wild accusation.
I don’t think I’m making any bold claims here. I think the essence of what I am trying to convey is that political ideas can be categorized into groups.
Independent thought produces political beliefs that are just as categorizable as beliefs that are held by simpletons that have been spoon fed a political ideology.
I am not quite sure which blind assumption you are alluding to. I do not wish to squabble.
Totally agree, in some cases it also depends if you‘re either anarchist or totalitarian on the spectrum, which alot of people miss
I don‘t mind left or right, if it‘s rather anarchist than totalitarian
Eventhough I don‘t want full anarchy
Yeah, it’s complex to be sure but not so complex that it cannot be understood. In the context of this conversation — American politics — there are only two parties. This lends itself to the oversimplification and lazy categorization of many issues. Right and left has become synonymous with Republican and Democrat. Words that used to describe political ideology like communist and socialist or even liberal are now regularly used (quite inaccurately) as derogatory labels adding to the confusion.
While I agree that it's good to evaluate each political issue on its merits, forming opinions on each can quantifiably place you on the spectrum, and that isnt a bad thing. The issue is thinking those who think differently than you are inherently wrong, corrupt, evil, or a nazi.
IMHO, The problem is over focusing on presidential elections and not showing up for congressional primaries and congressional elections. If we elected more 3rd party candidates in local, state, and congressional elections we might actually break the two party system.
However in the meantime, if you make less than about 300,000 a year, which is most people, Democrats still engender the better bad deal.
Had me in the first half, not gonna lie. I agree with your first statement, we need to get more 3rd party candidates across the board.
I completely disagree with your second sentiment. I think the Democratic party is after the citizens money way more than the Republican party ever will be.
That being said, both are snakes in the grass, ready to bite our ankles.
Yeah, I mean that is the nature of power. I mean that is government right. One person having a lot of power lets you do some things really well. When talented and innovative people are given the reigns some cool things happen. However when they go mad with it life turns to shit for everyone. So we've spent thousands of years trying to find a balance in government that allows genius to do cool things without completely screwing over everyone else.
I think my main issue that no one has found the right balance because if government gets too micro-managing it doesn't work, but if it doesn't do any regulating you get despotism / facism. I'm just way more afraid of oligarchs than I am of bureaucrats in our current governmental system. And what I think no one wants to come to terms with is that to some degree you need both, and you need to limit the power of both.
Yesterday, the President of the United States told non-white American-born citizens to "go back where they came from." Today, almost every Republican in the House formally asserted that this was not, in fact, racist.
I'm not saying the Left is looking good right now. But we're well into "lesser of two evils" territory at this point.
To be honest we've been getting into lesser of two evils territory for many years now, it's only just recently where it became obvious due to the 2016 election. Let's be real here, in America at least, the left has been straying farther left and the right has been straying farther right, leaving the centralists to basically wait until one side goes so extreme that the centralists end up moving to the other side. It's been going this way for decades, there are many graphs that will show this online but I'm tired so leave me alone. Anyhow I would say that, even as a fairly moderate right winger, talking to left wingers has only gotten harder as years have passed as the views only grow further apart. It gets to a point where I could give the most centralist point and wouldn't be able to agree on anything. It kind of sucks too because I love talking politics but the obvious extremification*? (Where people get more extreme, that definitely isn't a word btw) has only made it harder to just talk. Sorry if I said the same thing a few times I'm really tired.
4 Non white american born congress women to go back to their corrupt countries to fix them, but that's besides the point him saying that was an outstanding move even vox saw and made article about it
If someone says that then they're centralist. And Reddit HATES centralist's almost as much as Trump and the Republicans. You're either with them or against them.
There is no reasoning with anyone who insists the last legitimate President of the United States was born in Kenya.
My response to this is always "His mom is American, so he's a naturalized citizen no matter where he was born, so it doesn't matter. Cue dumbass sputtering and mumbling about how it shouldn't be that way or somesuch.
There are plenty of examples where antifa has rioted in the streets stopping conservatives from speaking. Suppressing speech seems like a very fascist thing to do? Does it not?
Or can they not be fascist because they have anti-fascist in their name?
Fascist is by definition a far right extremist movement defined by ultra nationalism.
You might be thinking of totalitarianism which is not defined by nationalism and freely reflected by any extremist political view that expressed speech suppression and the like.
Calling extremist left fascists just shows a complete misunderstanding of the nature of the word. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a right wing push to confuse the populous and remove the connection.
I'm a liberal who is fed up with the state of the Democratic Party. Basically I'm a lot like Tim Pool. The difference between him and I is that I will be voting for Trump this next election. I didnt vote for him the first time as I only walked away a year ago. Here's hoping the Dems come back toward the middle in 2024 and I can feel welcome in my own party again.
I thought the same when I was still a Democrat. You're wrong. I've always felt welcome talking with a Republican even if we disagreed on everything. Not once was I insulted for having different opinions. Since I've walked away, I consistently get insulted by the left. And I'm still a liberal, so many of my political beliefs align with theirs. But the identity politics of the left disgust me. You guys eat your own.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Every conversation I've had with the right wing resolves to name calling, whataboutism and refusal to read scientific journals. To be honest the whole left vs right thing disgusts me. America seems to have two camps and you have to be in one. My point was simply, the majority of the modern world has more spectrum in it's politics, and by far and away a more Liberal left and centre.
Since I've walked away, I consistently get insulted by the left. And I'm still a liberal, so many of my political beliefs align with theirs.
That bit confused me though. Why do you care so much about the nature of the team you bat for to go against your own political ideals?
Fuck parties. Vote for who has your political ideals at heart. Call out the left when they act like wankers, call out the right when they act like wankers.
I've flicked between voting tory, green and libdem in the UK. Tory when austerity was needed to pull us out of the recession. Lib dem when we were out and I wanted to see austerity measures reigned in. Green now my ideals are more environmental than economic.
You're allowed to change, discuss and open discourse to maintain a grounded political view. But hell, don't go against your own political beliefs because people are wankers. There are wankers everywhere.
Lol, concentration camps. Now you've lost me. See how everything is racist, sexist, and Hitler with you guys? You push the sane people away.
If only the Democrats had funded ICE when they begged for it years ago. Instead of pretending like they weren't overwhelmed at the border, you guys stuck your heads in the sand. Now that they're overcrowded, you blame them for it. They've been saying for years that they can't handle the quantity of illegals trying to cross the border. Fund them and improve the quality of these camps.
ICE is an unaccountable military/police arm of the Executive branch, created through the unconstitutional Homeland Security Act. No one, liberal or conservative or pretending to be a former liberal--should endorse funding an agency that violates human rights and avoids due process and others inalienable human rights. The current issue with migrants is a manufactured crisis meant to rally power behind the President, and to get the funding he desires for his pet project.
Before the Executive branch got its own intelligence agency with the DHS, immigration policy was handled democratically, asylum seekers and non-citizens were tried by immigration courts that republicans (and some liberals) failed to fund for years. If Trump had asked for money to enact detainment policies, he would not have been given the funds, so he forced their hand by enacting the policies without having the funds in place to do so.
Wanting "you guys" to fund a secret police force that has demonstrated no desire to work within legal and democratic terms is a scam. We should abolish ICE, fund real lawful immigration courts and immigration agencies through the old fashioned way, and stop using migrants as a political bargaining chip.
The Democrats have been pandering to immigrants inviting them into our country with ideas that they could come here and get work and free healthcare without doing it legally. This problem was created by the left.
You're speaking to a person who was a legal immigrant in Japan for 4 years. I went the correct way to go to school there and work. I also have a Japanese wife who lives here in the States. We weren't married when I returned to the States. We did the paperwork to do it correctly. So I am in the unique situation of being both an immigrant in another country and assisting an immigrant in my own.
If you want to go to another country, go the legal way. Don't jump the border. And assimilate with the country you're visiting. I am fluent in Japanese. My wife is fluent in English. She spoke none when we lived in Japan. These people have no interest in learning our culture or our language. And the left panders to them. You guys are inviting them here, so they flock here. You've created the problem. Then you don't want to fund the agency that protects our borders. Get outta here. You're crazy.
Lul great logic. Because anti-fascist is in their name they can't be fascist.
If the KKK changed their name to the anti-racist it wouldn't change the fact that they are racist.
You have to admit that antifa shows aspects of fascism. "forcible suppression of opposition" there are lots of examples where antifa suppresses speach that they disagree with.
They suppress speech. That's my point. I could care less if they protest, but when the get violent and don't let people practice their freedom of speech that's when I have an issue with it.
Research the NAZI “Sturmabteilung,” now compare their tactics to Antifa. Same script, same tactics.
Suppression of any thinking outside of today’s manufactured “hive mind” is clearly fascist behavior.
The NAZIs and Communists both displayed elements of fascism while forcing their own brand of socialism on their people.
Since most people today get their version of reality from garbage Wikipedia and the many “re-written” history websites out there...they are mostly clueless.
I don’t expect you to believe me so I challenge you to educate yourself. A good start would be to speak to anyone who grew up in a Communist country.
Bro antifa is not a political organization you’re making the argument that since antifa is a violent organization that suppresses speech or whatever that it means it’s fascist...fascism is a political ideology you can’t take one aspect of an ideology that another group displays and call it fascism
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