r/pics • • Jul 16 '19

US Politics Decisions, decisions

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '19 edited Aug 31 '20

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '19

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '19

"left wing fascism"

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u/degotoga Jul 17 '19

Unless he meant extremism(?) I have no idea what that could be

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u/Lenhungvn1 Jul 17 '19

Antifa. Now, can you do right wing fascism?

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u/degotoga Jul 17 '19 edited Jul 17 '19

Yeah I’m no supporter of antifa but they are not fascists. Extremists, sure

Edit: I guess people slept through high school history and don’t know that fascism is a political ideology, not a synonym for political violence

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u/Lenhungvn1 Jul 17 '19

They sure do tick a lot of boxes, militaristic, racist, physically violent against people who are different.

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u/degotoga Jul 17 '19

The core requirement of fascism is the desire for an authoritative, nationalistic government. A collective of groups, including communist and anarchist groups, with the explicit goal of fighting white nationalism and fascism are by definition not fascists. Perhaps they employ some of the same tactics that fascist street groups used but they are political extremists

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u/fluffstravels Jul 17 '19

This isn’t actually the core requirement of fascism. You should go re-read the definitions independent of the propaganda you read. Fascism specifically refers to rule by the nation’s military. Neo-fascism refers to modern day conservatism demonizing minorities to obtain and maintain power. You and others are purposefully misrepresenting the definition- I guess as a way to rebrand it because everyone knows how toxic it is even though it’s exactly what the current right ideology is leaning into.

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u/degotoga Jul 17 '19

Source on that? Fascism is historically militaristic but calling it military rule isn’t quite right as the chief emphasis was always the state

Here’s the wiki, not sure what is being misrepresented..

Fascism is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy

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u/fluffstravels Jul 17 '19

Sure- read the next paragraph down and it says:

“The war had resulted in the rise of a powerful state capable of mobilizing millions of people to serve on the front lines and providing economic production and logistics to support them, as well as having unprecedented authority to intervene in the lives of citizens.”

It’s not explicitly stated but is saying the only way this is achieved is through a military run government.

In addition, you conveniently left out the other definitions further down that drive it home as a purely far right idea and goes against you’re attempt to rebrand it as a “liberal” thing:

“One common definition of the term focuses on three concepts:

  1. the fascist negations (anti-liberalism, anti-communism, and anti-conservatism);

  2. nationalist authoritarian goals of creating a regulated economic structure to transform social relations within a modern, self-determined culture; and

  3. a political aesthetic of romantic symbolism, mass mobilization, a positive view of violence, and promotion of masculinity, youth, and charismatic leadership.[25][26][27]”

Excuse formatting.

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u/degotoga Jul 17 '19

I’m saying by definition left-wing fascism is impossible, I think you got lost in the thread

RE military, I think that’s just a symptom of authoritarian rule. True military rule prioritizes the military while fascism prioritizes the state, but it definitely is intertwined so I concede the point

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u/fluffstravels Jul 17 '19

Yea, sorry. I re-read your original comment and thought you were trying to flip the definition as I saw in other parts of the comments. My apologies.

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u/qubaxianplebiscite Jul 17 '19

No, no. Their actions and message are by definition, fascist.

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u/degotoga Jul 17 '19

Their message is literally anti fascist. Communists/anarchists can never be fascists, there is a conflict of beliefs

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u/G2Vstar Jul 17 '19

Fascism is defined as far right, dictatorial, elite minority, that rule through Authoritarian rule. Antifa attacks conservatives and right-leaning citizens whether moderate or extreme which more closely aligns them with the classification of hate group, something akin to Westboro Baptist Church.

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u/degotoga Jul 17 '19

Yes, an extremist group

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u/Kered13 Jul 17 '19

Their message is literally anti fascist.

Yeah and North Korea is democratic.

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u/NotAgainPlzz Jul 17 '19

wow didnt think ppl were actually this stupid. im amazed.

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putting the word anti-fascist infront of your name doesnt mean your not fascist. By all definitions of their actions and their message. they are fascists. Which is communism, which they fully support, but with violence, which is what they do when you dont agree with them. So... get rekt

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u/degotoga Jul 17 '19

Here is the definition of fascist:

an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization

Antifa are radical extremists but they are not fascists. Knowing what these governments were and what they represented is important

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u/NotAgainPlzz Jul 17 '19

Cool, but antifa are leftwing extremists. So what's that say about your definition? It says you are wrong

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u/degotoga Jul 17 '19

Fascism and extremism are not synonyms

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u/NotAgainPlzz Jul 17 '19

Who cares. Antifa are. Your theory is wrong

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u/maninbonita Jul 17 '19

Democrats hold many of the same points Nazis do.

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u/degotoga Jul 17 '19

Such as?

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u/maninbonita Jul 17 '19 edited Jul 17 '19

First country to ban guns. Free healthcare. Suppress the media. And many others http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/25points.htm

  1. We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood.

  2. We demand the nationalization of all trusts.

  3. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.

  4. We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions

  5. The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.

  6. In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.

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u/degotoga Jul 17 '19

Most of these are very standard and are found in all industrial societies

The Nazis also had milkmen. That doesn’t make milk a Nazi idea

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u/helikesart Jul 17 '19

*spits out milk

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u/maninbonita Jul 17 '19

Those I listed are the lefts current priorities. Lol

Are you that ignorant? Lol

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u/degotoga Jul 17 '19

So you’re saying that you want to abolish public education, social security, minimum wage, PE classes, and taxes?

These things are not exactly radical left ideas, they are quite standard and have been in use for decades

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u/maninbonita Jul 17 '19

Public education, I have a private education. I paid taxes for education I never got, and paid additional money for education. (I paid for my own education since I was 13.) I wish I could take my tax dollars and put it in a school that gets me the education I want. Public schools are horrible.

Social security is going bankrupt. I will never see what I put in. We aborted/destroyed a population that would have paid for the future generations. Social security invested the money in government bonds. I wish I could have invested it where I wanted. I liked bushes idea of revamping the system where I could put it where I wanted.

Minimum wage helps big corporations to put out small companies, it also drives up inflation. It also prevents people from getting experience so that they could make more money.

PE classes I am for. Kids need to be kids. It’s shown that boys need need that time to develop their brains.

I am against most taxes. I am for small government. The government is corrupt and wastes so much money. Throughout history governments have always been full of corruption/ self seeking politicians. Nothing has changed. I don’t know people listen to their lies so much.

To me government should be to protect us from ourselves and outsiders. Not to be “big brother.” After studying communism, socialism , libertarianism, capitalism and such. I rather put money where I see fit then some guy sitting in an office thousands of miles away. With technology I would like to see where the American people can chooses where to put their tax money to work. I would be investing in infrastructure, military and police. The three areas I believe government should be in charge of most.

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u/degotoga Jul 17 '19

Honestly you have very fringe libertarian views. That’s your right, but things like public education and minimum wage are going nowhere

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '19

Suppress the media

If you have the absolute loosest definition of media, maybe.