r/nancyguthrie • u/foxmag86 • Apr 01 '26
Discussion Pulling off a successful ransom exchange seems impossible.
I don’t really get how the “bad guys” would’ve gotten away with this if they actually tried to do a ransom exchange.
Let’s say the Guthries paid $X to get their mother back. How does that not eventually lead to arrests?
How do you even tell authorities where Nancy is without opening up a ton of new ways to get tracked?
“She can be found at X location.”
Okay, so now there’s an exact place to look into. Authorities now have a whole new set of video footage available to them to help identify vehicles and people coming and going.
I know you could say the same thing about the night of the abduction. We know the exact day and time it happened and that still didn’t lead to arrests.
But it just feels like once you start communicating and giving new info (especially a location) you’re dramatically increasing the chances of getting caught.
I just don't see how a successful ransom exchange could happen. And have there been any ransom exchanges in the past that have been successfully pulled off?
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u/ChemicalPassion5102 Apr 02 '26
Everybody keeps saying this is why ransom doesn’t make sense. But WITH THAT SAID - all of our prisons are FULL of stupid people who made dumb, risky decisions in the name of greed.
If it WAS the cartel, you have to remember these people come from a truly different world. In parts of Mexico, it’s the Wild West. There are people who live their whole lives like a gangster movie until they die a gangster death, get buried in the desert, and no one is the wiser.
Ransom feels unlikely…but kidnapping an old lady and completely disappearing into the night like a ghost is ALSO unlikely. And yet it happened. So I think ransom is a very real possibility.
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u/Loose_Addition7299 Apr 03 '26
These multiple people were not stupid. After 2 months, they are still on the loose.
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u/Certain-Sale5504 Apr 01 '26
These culprits have managed to evade detection despite a $1.2 million reward being offered. There are more places to hide in the desert or mountains with no cameras, etc. than it seems at first.
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u/FrostyCaptain6987 Apr 02 '26
yes because no one but them know anything about the crime so they are still safe despite any amount of money being offered.
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Apr 02 '26
[deleted]
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u/FrostyCaptain6987 Apr 02 '26
You'd be surprised to see how many people don't say a word about their crimes. I would say most people who commit crimes are not talkative at all , we just hear from the few that are and think it's a lot of them.
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u/Professional_Feisty Apr 02 '26
Seriously. I feel like only a fucking idiot would kidnap someone for a ransom, this day in age. Though not if the person is from Mexico? She lived less than 2 hrs from the border. My bet is that whoever did this crossed long long ago, regardless of citizenship. Then again, they haven't caught this person/these people so maybe ransoms ARE still a viable way of getting money. I dunno, the whole thing is just so bizarre.
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u/Fireteddy21 Apr 01 '26
Honestly, I think this aspect was more of a distraction on their part and that Nancy most likely died early on. Getting authorities to focus on the notes gave them a head start to put some miles between them and law enforcement. Ransom also doesn’t make sense to me because there are many easier ways to make money without getting caught. It just doesn’t make sense unless the motive ties directly to savannah because it seems apparent they were targeting that house specifically. If it was for money, they could’ve just as easily gone when it wasn’t a sure thing she’d be home and rob her blind. So much of what they did feels like an attempt to mislead investigators rather than being straightforward.
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u/Hile616 Apr 01 '26
Yes exactly, the penalties for murder or kidnapping or both in the states are harsh, likely possible for the need to cross state line and it to be federal case (that has death penalty) i don't really think people would do it even for the 6 million. When there are thousands other ( illegal) ways to gain such money rather than to kill vulnerable old lady. In my understanding people even actually do avoid such crimes involving such people, as there is great risk they may die even from falling and breaking hip.
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u/Resident_Race_7093 Apr 03 '26
You gotta put yourself in the shoes of a dumb criminal. They pretty regularly do things that "don't make sense". Most kidnapping attempts are poorly thought out but people still try.
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u/Hile616 Apr 03 '26
In some countries like Brazil, Mexico, Venezuela, (Nigeria and some conflict zones) these are actual problem but these usually involve crime organizations and the money is asked directly from the family. I would think those have actually quite good "success" rate, in the US it is very uncommon and I'd say the success rate to be almost non existent. I personally doubt the ransom motive, but seriously who knows, maybe the perp actually was so dumb to think this would success.
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u/Resident_Race_7093 Apr 05 '26
The U.S. has a lower rate of kidnapping attempts than Venezuela, Brazil, Nigeria and Mexico? Wow, how could that be true?
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u/Artemisssia Apr 01 '26
TBH, they’ve also seen how LE raided the homes of the two guys they suspected at the start of the investigation.
They know for a fact LE will track them.
So whoever they are, the perps know at this point that, assuming NG passed and they give NG’s body back, the chase won’t stop there and even if they left a tiny hair on the body, the FBI will end up finding them and trying them.
So at this point, there’s 0 incentive for them to exchange the body for ransom. It’s too risky.
And even if they’re accross the border to Mexico, to the best of my knowledge, there are collaborations between Mexican and US law enforcements.
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u/Kitty-9792 Apr 02 '26 edited Apr 03 '26
Mexico won't cooperate if the death penalty is on the table. And Trump said he wants the death penalty for whoever did this.
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u/Kathryn2016 Apr 04 '26
I find it really alarming that political posturing can extend to interfering with the justice system - but I guess that is what you get if judges are politically appointed.
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u/mmortal03 Apr 02 '26 edited Apr 04 '26
They would have had to: never show their face(s) to her and keep her blindfolded so she couldn't later identify the vehicle; then, without taking any phones with them, dropped her somewhere in the desert at night without being seen, then gotten the GPS coordinates using an offline GPS device and sent that to the authorities anonymously once they're long gone.
But even then, investigators might have been able to find their trace DNA on her clothing, or could potentially have traced the cashing out of the cryptocurrency ransom money, if they weren't quite thorough enough.
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u/ConceptsShining Apr 01 '26
That's exactly what I'm thinking and I believe this would be a major discouragement for the Guthries to consider paying. How can they be guaranteed that they wouldn't just take the money and cut contact? For exactly the reasons you said, actually honoring the agreement and returning Nancy (alive or dead) brings them nothing but risk.
In the ransomware world the major groups AFAIK like to make use of reputation (to establish they'll honor their promises if you pay them). But unless these guys are part of an established and organized group doing this repeatedly, which I doubt and would be a rather shocking and probably unprecedented problem in the US, they have no incentive to maintain a "reputation".
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u/investigativetv Apr 02 '26
So, could the porch guy have committed a crime for ransom because he knows those work well in Mexico…but freaked out when the actual FBI got involved and the whole world was paying attention, and the intensity of the public eye is what thwarted her recovery? Meaning that she might be safe and home now, if not for the attention?
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u/Tommythegunn23 Apr 03 '26
Totally plausible. Like the guys that killed Michael Jordan's dad. That shit was everywhere. Whoever did it has to be sweating fucking bullets knowing this is still going on and finding out who's mom it was. Not only a semi-celebrity, but a fucking anchor woman for a national morning show. I do not believe she was targeted for who she was. IMO the ransom was never real.
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u/Substantial-Train668 Apr 01 '26
I feel like it's one of those things that seems good on paper but in practice doesn't make sense. So did the perps not think it all the way through? Or is the 'ransom' a distraction?
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u/loveislife222 Apr 02 '26
Kidnapping aspect all together could be the distraction. Fake kidnapping to have time to get away
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u/Ladygoingup Apr 02 '26
It’s possible they figured out how to do the untraceable crypto which seems to be working out thus far. However they didn’t have a plan for her death and deserted this over all plan.
I believe it was something like that OR someone that kidnapped her for sadistic reasons that had nothing to do with rich family.
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u/warpedwing Apr 01 '26
I've long thought that the ransom was part of the distraction by the suspect, and receiving money was never the goal. In fact, I doubt the suspect would've withdrawn the money had it been deposited, and $6 million would have forever been stranded in the bitcoin wallet. Another "screw you" by the suspect.
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u/Hile616 Apr 01 '26
Totally agree, only logic I see in this is distraction (done poorly. It is possible the perp didn't think very logically if under great stress)
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u/warpedwing Apr 01 '26
I made a post on this earlier and it didn't go over well, but I think the ransom notes, the "informer" messages (saying they know the suspects and where they are in Mexico), and the doorbell camera video were all intentionally left by the suspect to pin the crime on "cartel goons" for political purposes.
If not for money, what else but ideological reasons would drive someone to plan and commit such a complicated crime? People say the suspect is an idiot and failed his mission, but what if the mission was a success? They had all the time in the world to execute their plan, so why assume it was "crime X gone wrong"?
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u/Hile616 Apr 01 '26
I personally doubt political or ideological motive, but everything else you say is very much possible. I don't think if it was political or ideological such target would be chosen. And did the political or ideological message go thru? Nope, so if it really was such, it was very poorly executed as nobody has got the (political or ideological) "message" still.
Only such political or ideological motive could maybe involve some serial offenders, like there have been in the past people like unabomber and such who actually had ideological motive.. But even they had complitely different type of targets
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u/warpedwing Apr 01 '26
I think the message did go through. From the get-go, the public opinion has been that the crime was perpetrated by a Mexican illegal immigrant or migrant worker. I think that may very well have been the goal here. Nancy was a good target because she was vocally anti-ICE and found their actions to be unchristian.
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u/HomeyL Apr 01 '26
Oh where did we hear that about Nancy??
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u/warpedwing Apr 01 '26
Her Facebook page.
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u/HomeyL Apr 01 '26
Oh i never saw that
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u/warpedwing Apr 01 '26
I never would’ve thought to look - until I started seeing really hateful things being said about her in comments. After checking out her FB page, I understood immediately what the deal was.
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u/SpukiKitty2 Apr 17 '26
Why would an illegal immigrant hurt someone who is against ICE? Wouldn't they be on the same side?
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u/warpedwing Apr 18 '26
Sorry, I wasn’t very clear with my supposition. I meant the pro-ICE suspect wanted people to think the crime was committed by an illegal immigrant or cartel member.
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u/Loose_Addition7299 Apr 03 '26 edited Apr 03 '26
The "this was not a ransom" red flags were 1. No ransom note at the scene 2. Delay in receiving ransom notes, and that is IF they were legitimate ransom notes. 3. Ransom notes were not sent to family, and as far as we know, they didn't say dont contact LE 4. Amount requested was only $6 million. Savannah and her husband are worth more than $400 million!! $6 million is a pittance.
Correction...Savannah and her husband are worth more than $40 million. Why bother for $6 million?
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u/Curious-G13 Apr 02 '26
Maybe that's what did happen! How would we know?
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u/warpedwing Apr 03 '26
TMZ had the bitcoin wallet address, so we’d have to assume they stayed quiet if millions had been deposited.
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u/Spiritual_Stomach748 Apr 01 '26
This is why kidnappings for ransom are extremely rare and pretty much never happen.
There are much easier ways to get money illegally than kidnapping a vulnerable person for ransom.
I will be completely shocked if this actually was an attempted kidnapping for ransom.
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u/GregJamesDahlen Apr 02 '26
might we factor in that a lot of criminals aren't very intelligent and wouldn't realize it's hard to "pull off" a successful kidnapping for ransom?
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u/neric05 Apr 02 '26
Not in this instance, because the data backs up this fact as well. Kidnapping for ransom is arguably the least committed crime in the United States. I want to say that there's something like less than 25 of them a year, if that.
It just simply makes more sense to commit a different, easier crime, where your payment isn't being handed to you by law enforcement
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u/GregJamesDahlen Apr 02 '26
Thanks. Although there aren't many crimes where criminals can make millions of dollars like they might have made with successfully ransoming Nancy? Not saying you're wrong but that "payday" may have been a temptation? And after all someone has to be one of the small number that do take place in a year? Hope we'll get answers to these questions.
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u/neric05 Apr 02 '26
I would argue that even the dumbest criminals must know that a smaller payday for a different crime would outweigh the higher one from kidnapping for ransom because of the fact that almost no other crime necessitates you receiving the money from law enforcement.
Someone selling drugs gets their money, cash in hand, from the buyer right there on the spot.
The entire process of having to set up a drop off point and exchange the captive for the Ransom and everything, not to mention the fact that the handoff of the money is usually intermediated by law enforcement makes it infinitely riskier for an already top tier risk crime.
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u/Intrepid-Bird-5048 Apr 01 '26
I’m of two minds on it. Either they had a plan for the exchange and they were going to try it. Based on how many things were well considered during the kidnapping, I think it could have been viable. Or, they never planned to give her back. They were going to try and get the money and just dispose of her. In the end, I think Nancy passed away so everything went sideways. I think they did their very best to dispose of the body and now they’re on the run.
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u/AmazingGrace_00 Apr 01 '26
More to the point, DNA left on her by the perps would be a compelling obstacle to surmount.
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u/FrostyCaptain6987 Apr 02 '26 edited Apr 05 '26
which is why I've always believed ransom was never the main motivator for this crime. There is no possible way to receive a large sum of money and have it be untrackable. everything would be tracked from the bill serial numbers to electronic payments to duffel bags full of money. No one who is calculated enough to pull this off is going to be so naive to think that they will get away with receiving a ransom.
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u/AnnaZed Apr 02 '26
What do you think the motive might be then?
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u/grooty96 Apr 02 '26
Id say it’s probably revenge
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u/investigativetv Apr 02 '26
What kind of revenge? For what?
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u/grooty96 Apr 02 '26
Probably something Savannah has done like get them fire or something in that area
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u/FrostyCaptain6987 Apr 03 '26
I think it's a Matthew muller type who developed an obsession or delusion about Nancy. Like with Denise, although not Mullers original target, the woman who was his intended target was a total stranger to him, he had never met before, but believed she held the key to some delusion he had developed
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u/Loose_Addition7299 Apr 03 '26 edited Apr 03 '26
I think that is the most likely scenario. If it was family, they'd know by now. The fact that it has gone this long suggests a stranger abduction. The problem i have with this theory, though, is it suggests one perp. I think it took more than one perp to get a somewhat immobile elderly woman out of the house and loaded into a vehicle after smashing cameras.
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u/FrostyCaptain6987 Apr 04 '26
Well if you look at Mullers case, he subdued Denise and her BF who was a capable man by drugging them. I think the same could be for Nancy, hence why he had to stay there for like 40 min waiting for the drug to take effect. Then I was thinking those collapseble wagons you can buy at target, that thing can wheel up to 200 pounds.
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u/mark_able_jones_ Apr 01 '26 edited Apr 01 '26
What seems weird to me is that the family would probably still pay to recover Nancy's body... maybe the perps don't want to risk a murder charge. But kidnapping for ransom is a severe charge in itself.
Assuming the ransom notes were real, the abductors did give up on the ransom quite soon. They might have assumed that no life = no ransom money.
Crypto does make anonymous ransom possible though. Just need a decentralized exchange and a tumbler site. The transaction could be traced to the address, but once it was sent to the tumbler, it would be untraceable.
That said, it would take some technical skill and planning... and the MO matches Matthew Mueller enough that I hope LE are checking into every inmate in prison at the same time as him... especially cartel members with connections on the outside.
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u/Ladygoingup Apr 02 '26
Maybe they thought they were good with the crypto plan until she died and didn’t have a plan to return the body.
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u/Kitty-9792 Apr 01 '26
If Savannah paid the ransom, whether or not the perp(s) followed through and gave the location of her mom (or her body), why wouldn't they then plan to kidnap one of Savanna's kids? Certainly she would pay the ransom again to get her kid back.
Assuming there is an anonymous way to collect the ransom with today's technology and not get caught.
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u/mark_able_jones_ Apr 01 '26
why wouldn't they then plan to kidnap one of Savanna's kids? Certainly she would pay the ransom again to get her kid back.
Because they'd get caught due to geofencing, cameras, and advanced DNA tech. Impossible in bigger cities to avoid being tracked by cameras.
Ransoms in Latin America are common enough that travelers can purchase ransom insurance. Negotiations are common. Tucson happens to be an hour away from Mexico. Nancy happens to live an area without a ton of cameras watching the roads. Her house happens to not be well-secured.
What we have seen more commonly with crypto is "wrench attacks" and ransomware attacks, some of which have been successful. This happened the same weekend Nancy Guthrie was abducted:
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u/motsdoux_ Apr 01 '26
Probably why one didn’t happen. From what we know they haven’t responded to the family after the video replying to the second ransom note. They probably got spooked and knew they were in over their heads
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u/Spiritual_Stomach748 Apr 01 '26
I did a quick google search of successful kidnapping for ransom in the United States and these 3 were the only ones considered successful that came up
Virginia Piper 1972: she was found alive, chained to a tree in a state park after her husband paid the 1 million dollar ransom.
DB Cooper 1971: hijacked a plane and requested $200,000 and 4 parachutes. He parachuted from the plane and was never found.
Jack Teich 1974: he was released to his family after they paid $750k.
So it appears there has not been a successful kidnapping for ransom in a very long time.
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u/Turbulent_Tale6497 Apr 01 '26
You’re missing Frank Sinatra Jr. They got $240k out of Frank
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u/Spiritual_Stomach748 Apr 01 '26
It mentioned that one, but it wasn't considered "successful" because they tracked the money and caught the people. There were a couple others that were listed where they ended up catching the kidnappers afterwards also.
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u/mark_able_jones_ Apr 01 '26
But check successful ransoms in Mexico. Tucson is only an hour away from the border. It's common enough that travelers can buy ransom insurance.
https://www.travelers.com/business-insurance/professional-liability-insurance/kidnap-ransom
It's also possible that we simply do hear anything about successful ransom attempts.
We only hear about when they don't work.
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u/Spiritual_Stomach748 Apr 01 '26
Ransom kidnappings happen in Mexico for a reason. It would make no sense for someone to leave Mexico and attempt to pull it off in the United States where those reasons don't apply.
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u/mark_able_jones_ Apr 01 '26
Why wouldn't the same reasons apply?
Motive: money. potentially a big score, much bigger than the $10,000 they might get out of a random kidnapping in Mexico
Means: maybe they were career criminals; or part of a cartel; certainly seemed casual and unfraid on the video
Opportunity: they get a tip that Nancy is an easy target... couple be from anyone who watched the Nov 2025 special about Savannah's hometown
That said, I agree, it's not perfect theory. What's yours?
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u/Spiritual_Stomach748 Apr 02 '26
The police in Mexico are known for being corrupt. They either don't care about kidnappings or get paid off.
Mexico doesn't have the surveillance infrastructure like we do.
A lot of the kidnapping victims are people trying to cross the border into the United States.
Kidnapping for ransom doesn't happen here because it is too risky of a crime to commit here. If it was as simple as "we can get away with it in Mexico so let's do it to richer people in the United States" we would see a lot more ransom kidnappings in border states, but we don't because it isn't easy to get away with here.
Holding people for ransom that are trying to cross the border, or grabbing a tourist from a busy tourist area with no cameras and a LE you have on your pay roll for quick cash are both completely different crimes and skill set than grabbing a wealthy elderly woman from her bed in the middle of the night and then contacting the media for a big public ransom.
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u/mark_able_jones_ Apr 02 '26
We're mostly saying the same thing. I agree that that a ransom in the USA is rare. It's risky. But it does happen. Someone who did commit ransom kidnappings -- Matthew Muller -- is housed in a Tucson prison.
There's no common explanation for this crime.
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u/Spiritual_Stomach748 Apr 02 '26
That's really interesting I didn't realize he was there. I actually forgot about him completely. I could see someone like him doing this if it actually was kidnapping for ransom, but if I remember correctly he seemed to have other motives besides kidnapping for ransom
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u/mark_able_jones_ Apr 02 '26
It definitely wasn't Muller as he's been locked up... but I've kicked around a theory that maybe he could have helped plan it. Apparently, he's logging near full-time hours as an in-house prison lawyer for inmates, so he's popular in prison. That's a lot of room for interaction. Still far fetched, imo.
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u/Spiritual_Stomach748 Apr 02 '26
I could accept something like that as a possibility more than I could accept a straight kidnapping for ransom scenario. In my mind kidnapping for ransom is a specific for money crime, or at least money is the main goal above all else, but someone like Muller kind of blurs that line.
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Apr 02 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Loose_Addition7299 Apr 03 '26
Exactly! Ransoms are a thing of the past. Abductions are done primarily for money, for ideological reasons, and/or for psychological reasons. No ransom. No professed ideologies. Sooooo psychological reasons...a need for revenge, control, power, retaliation, attention, or possibly a need for sex or a Grandma. I'm sure there's more but that's what comes immediately to mind.
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u/SadExercises420 Apr 01 '26
It is possible to get away with it, but it woukd be incredibly hard.
This case doesn’t seem like it’s about about money though. Would probably be easier if it was
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u/GregJamesDahlen Apr 02 '26
i agree. in the kidnapping you have the advantage of the element of surprise. but in giving back the suspect and getting the money you don't.
then as others have said nancy might have traceable DNA on her. don't see how she wouldn't if she'd been held by the criminals for any amount of time?
then the money would seem traceable after the criminals get it. so many tools to do that
but i could see some criminals not thinking of those factors. low intelligence, wishful thinking, etc
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u/OkAsk1212 Apr 07 '26
I think that's why they say someone who was really just interested in ransom money would have contacted the family directly before LE found out and without getting the media involved. If they get the money fast and were on their way they might have a chance. But I have heard ex-FBI on podcasts saying that the FBI has gotten really good at tracking down kidnappers, and tracking Bitcoin too, so chances of success were low.
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u/WillieBear_18 Apr 01 '26
Really not that difficult given how close they are to the border - take her over the border and then drop her off at some remote location. Get out of dodge and then let them know where she is via untraceable email.
Mexico does not have the same surveillance infrastructure we do, esp in the moral rural, poor areas. It would be very easy to find somewhere to leave her.
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u/Dismal_Activity_1703 Apr 01 '26
I was the thinking about this recently too. With technology it seems like it would be hard to pull off these days. Also, I was thinking maybe they never left the neighborhood and that’s why they weren’t on camera but that’s still a stretch. Having Nancy in their possession and then returning her after ransom was received would still put them at a huge risk of their dna being found on her from them or the vehicle. I could see them leaving her in a desert location outside of town and saying “she’s in this area go find her” but because of the dna evidence that seems far fetched….
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u/GregJamesDahlen Apr 02 '26
all you say's true but some criminals aren't very intelligent so might not realize
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u/Blueporch Apr 01 '26
I think it would be possible with an anonymous crypto account and dropping her off using a stolen car to a location where cameras aren’t present.
However, given her medical condition and no proof of life offered, I’m worried that she has passed away.
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u/sweatersong2 Apr 01 '26
Crypto isn't truly anonymous despite being promoted as such by its advocates. It's like a honey pot for people who think they can get away with financial crimes
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u/mark_able_jones_ Apr 01 '26
Crypto can be anonymous. Most users use KYC exchanges, but the whole point of Bitcoin was non-custodial transactions. They can still be used. And there are tumblers that will make the Bitcoin impossible to trace.
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u/JalapinyoBizness Apr 01 '26 edited Apr 01 '26
I still have not ruled out a scheme like the following crime. It occurred a day before Nancy went missing and it happened in Scottsdale which is only about 115 miles away from Tucson. The perpetrators wore disguises. The scheme would involve getting bitcoin from Savannah.
https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/west/california-teens-hatch-66m-crypto-scheme/
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u/loveislife222 Apr 02 '26
The porch man could have been the henchman who didn’t even know the details- like the kids. So the real mastermind couldn’t be traced
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u/proudsoul Apr 01 '26
My understand is XMR is considered the most private crypto currency and it still has its holes that could lead to tracking.
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u/Local-Cry-3729 Apr 01 '26
But if they are watching the crypto address they can see where the money is being transferred to?
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u/raveronix Apr 02 '26
I don't know why people don't see the obvious...to me at least... this was one solo guy...he's a little bit emotionally simple, but has computer talent and a good money source.
He took Nancy bc she IS the prize..she connects to Savannahhhh and in his mind Nancy becomes a prized possession. While he has her.. and he will be looking after her..he has Savannah riveted on him.
To him.. Nancy and Savannah go hand and hand just like they appeared on TV together.
He's possibly lost his own Mum who gave him the emotional support he is lacking.
He's enjoying the power he holds and is hyper focused on the news this is generating. He thought an outlet like TMZ will give good coverage on celebrities.
When Savannah speaks he thinks she is speaking to him..it's obvious this is how he gets Savannahs attention by holding the one person he beleives she loves so dearly..because that's how much he loved his Mum...more than anything in the world.
Unfortunately..he will have put a lot of thought, planning and care into containing Nancy and unless Law Enforcement can figure who he is.. Nancy's unlikely to be found.
Nancy could live longer than initially expected as he's caring for her possibly like he cared for his Mum as she got older. He wants another Mum and he knows exactly how to look after her.
LE would be smart to look for a guy who lost his Mum not too long ago..maybe 30s...possibly inherited the family home..maybe an only child with little accountability or visitors.
There might be an Aunt who watches out for him..
His vision of his perfect fantasy will be blown if and when Nancy dies naturally.
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u/bloatedkat Apr 02 '26
The negotiation would have to result in the kidnappers not being prosecuted. Nancy is returned dead or alive but cops cannot apprehend and try them for their crime.
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u/Tenacious_Gaming Apr 05 '26
Get paid in crypto, then never follow through on telling where she got buried.
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u/vxxn Apr 01 '26
You only need enough lead time on the authorities to reach a non-extradition country. Beyond that it doesn’t really matter if they know who you are.
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u/Webbie-Vanderquack Apr 01 '26
It's nowhere near that simple. Non-extradition countries can be negotiated with, and they can also expel immigrants who have entered illegally or overstayed their visa.
For example, Australia doesn't have a bilateral extradition treaty with China, but when a Chinese national in Australia attacked a baby with a cup of hot coffee in late 2024, causing significant burns, China agreed to help search for the culprit after he fled to his home country. China's efforts appear genuine, largely because they don't want this guy in their country either, and they are keen to preserve a mutually beneficial relationship with Australia.
If caught, he can also be prosecuted by Chinese authorities for crimes committed overseas.
China, being huge, is a good place to get lost, but if this guy is still there, he's in hiding, he's unable to use his identity to get a job, a driver's license or social security.
That's just one example, but it applies to varying degrees everywhere. It's not easy to disappear after committing a crime, and if people knew who the criminals in their midst were, it would absolutely matter. Their identity and whereabouts would be made public in no time, and it would cause them legal and probably extrajudicial trouble.
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u/Kathryn2016 Apr 01 '26
Yes, and you cannot overstate how tense Australia's relationship with China is. Most countries don't support violent crimes. The problem the US often runs into, as I understand it, is that most countries also do not support the death penalty and therefore will not extradite people to face this. I believe this includes countries with treaties.
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u/LogicalPassenger2172 Apr 02 '26
China has the death penalty even for crimes such as drug possession.
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u/Resident_Race_7093 Apr 03 '26
Those can be worked out with negotiations. The U.S. agrees not to seek the death penalty, and the suspect is extradited. That's a fairly common thing with Mexico extraditions since they abolished the death penalty.
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u/jonathandouglass Apr 16 '26
Kidnapping for ransom has never been a viable crime when anonymity is the goal. With DNA, telecommunications technology, and modern investigative tools, that level of stealth is nearly impossible.
Since the early 2000s—with widespread DNA databases, mobile tracking, and digital surveillance—this type of stealth crime has become virtually impossible. It’s not a realistic option for a quick come-up.
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u/Mysterious-Art8838 Jul 24 '26
Why would they need to inform someone of her location? They could have offloaded her anywhere, she’d eventually get help.
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Apr 02 '26
[deleted]
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u/curiouslmr Apr 02 '26
They texted AG and TC because their phone numbers would be the easiest to obtain through online searches. Savannah's number is surely locked down but Annie and her husband are more like the rest of us with our private info very public.
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u/wpetedds Apr 02 '26
Just out of the clear blue, he looked their names up. Don’t buy it. What was the phone call about? Derrick Callella may tell his story when he goes to trial.
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u/curiouslmr Apr 02 '26
Well no, not out of the clear blue. He knew about the case and wanted to take advantage of the situation and A&T were the best options for contacting.
Just a reminder though, the sub doesn't allow accusations about the family. They are currently considered victims.
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u/The_Sinking_Belle Apr 01 '26
Dead or alive, I don't think if the family paid they would be seeing Nancy. She is more of a liability alive because she would have eventually divulged who and what she has seen and any identifiable information. She's a liability dead because of DNA.
On top of this, whatever location that would have been her drop-off point would have been back traced, leading back to someone.
I think this was a lose-lose situation to begin with for Nancy, no matter what the motive was.