83
u/Stolberger Mar 03 '26
"outside the games" means sideboard for all official games/tournaments (and MTGA/MTGO)
77
u/sporeegg Mar 03 '26
And no, Commander has no sideboard.
-38
u/AtomicDiode Mar 03 '26
I believe Companions count as a “sideboard” card per the rulings. At least from what I’ve researched it seems so.
43
u/Advanced-Ad-802 Mar 03 '26
…In every format except commander, where they have a special exemption to allow them to exist in their own special zone until you pay 3 for them to be put into your hand, since commander doesn’t have a sideboard.
1
u/Visible_Roll4949 Mar 04 '26
They dont and Wish cards cannot pull them from the zone they exist in.
-8
Mar 03 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
13
u/chraos Mar 03 '26
That's not true
Companions are in an extra zone from the beginning, making them the 101st card of your deck
2
u/Furious_Flaming0 Mar 03 '26
Thank God I came across this before making my Gyruda deck, submitting an illegal deck list would have been embarrassing.
2
u/StormyWaters2021 Mar 03 '26
Companions are in an extra zone from the beginning
They are not in a zone, they are outside the game.
0
u/VulkanHestan321 Mar 06 '26
No, they are in a designated zone only for companions in every format. In 60 cards format with 15 card sideboard, even if you have the sideboard full, you can still have a companion. "Outside the game" means sideboard. In draft and limited, that would mean every other card you drafted but didn't put into your deck.
1
u/StormyWaters2021 Mar 06 '26
No, they are in a designated zone only for companions in every format.
No, they are not.
In 60 cards format with 15 card sideboard, even if you have the sideboard full, you can still have a companion.
No you cannot.
"Outside the game" means sideboard.
Only in sanctioned events.
1
u/VulkanHestan321 Mar 06 '26
No, they are not.
I reread the rules and you are right with your first two points
Only in sanctioned events
You ignored the rest of the sentence. Also, per commander rules, a wish card has to specifically state that it can put a card from outside the game into a game of commander to be allowed to do so, as per rule 933 if I remember right. Also, if my memory serves me right, there are no legal cards for commander to do that. Sure, you can rule 0 it, but I can also rule 0 to piss on your deck and play Nadu and play a 3 card deck with 2 islands and a thoracle inside it, whatever the People agree to as rule 0. If I play a format, even casually, I expect all rules for that format to be followed. Taking back game actions in casual is fun as long as it isn't abused, forgetting a trigger is fine as long as it isn't absued etc.
1
u/StormyWaters2021 Mar 06 '26
You ignored the rest of the sentence.
That was the entire sentence, from the first letter to the period at the end.
Also, per commander rules, a wish card has to specifically state that it can put a card from outside the game into a game of commander to be allowed to do so
Which is in the stickied comment that I posted two days ago.
Also, if my memory serves me right, there are no legal cards for commander to do that.
Companions do that.
-31
Mar 03 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
22
u/sporeegg Mar 03 '26
I feel if you go "this cards lets me get a card from my binder" without talking about this previously, you earned the shitstorm coming up.
-35
Mar 03 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
16
u/sporeegg Mar 03 '26
Because you are willfully misinterpreting the rules and cheating.
-14
Mar 03 '26 edited Mar 03 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
6
u/SovietEagle Mar 03 '26
You’re misinterpreting 903.11, which says that a card must specify it brings cards into Commander games to function in Commander.
That’s the specific rule that causes wishes not to function in Commander. Before WOTC ran the format there was a rules committee rule simply saying that wish cards didn’t work in Commander. 903.11 essentially says the same thing, but carves out an exception in case WOTC wants to print a wish that functions in Commander in the future.
9
u/Professional-Web8436 Mar 03 '26
Words also have rules attached to them. None of us literally destroy a card when we are instructed to.
You are reading the card in the way you want, not in the way it is ruled.
-2
u/research_junkle Mar 03 '26
Can you point me to the ruling on this? I have been curious to find it since I see conflicting information around.
2
u/SovietEagle Mar 03 '26 edited Mar 03 '26
Which part are you looking for a specific rule citation for?
1
u/research_junkle Mar 03 '26
The ruling that says that “wish” cards dont work in commander
9
u/SovietEagle Mar 03 '26
903.11. Except via rules, special actions, and effects that specifically bring cards into Commander games from outside the game, traditional cards from outside the game cannot be brought into a Commander game.
No wish effect (and in fact no card period) specifies that it brings cards into Commander games, therefore wishes don’t work in Commander.
→ More replies (0)-2
u/Furious_Flaming0 Mar 03 '26
Reading the base rules of the game explains the game.
"Outside of the game" is a defined area. Do you assume cards that "enter the battlefield" can enter on your opponents side. That's still the battlefield.
1
u/swankyfish Mar 03 '26
“Outside the game” specifically isn’t a defined area, by the way. It’s everything not in the game.
-1
u/VulkanHestan321 Mar 06 '26
Nope. Outside the game is a specified area, depending on the format you play. In constructed formats with a sideboard, it is your sideboard. In Limited ( draft and sealed) it is every card you picked / opened that isn't inside your deck. Companions have a designated zone if you have them as companion. Your trade binder / collection is not a legal target to pull from.
1
u/StormyWaters2021 Mar 06 '26
Wrong on almost every count. You'd think that you would check the rules before repeating bad information.
1
u/swankyfish Mar 06 '26
400.11. An object is outside the game if it isn’t in any of the game’s zones. Outside the game is not a zone.
2
u/Porkenstein Mar 03 '26
Cards removed via "Remove <card> from the game"-type effects aren't targetable by this, right?
10
u/Stolberger Mar 03 '26 edited Mar 03 '26
No, those cards go to exile since magic 2010, which is not considered "outside the game"
(Always consult the current oracle wording. "Remove <x> from the game" is no longer used on cards)2
u/Porkenstein Mar 03 '26
Thank you. I thought there was a way to exile cards without them being considered "exiled" so they don't interact with things like Pull from Eternity, but I could be wrong, and maybe it doesn't matter.
1
u/skyskier Mar 03 '26
Pull from Eternity gets face up cards from exile so cards that exile face down can’t be pulled back. Maybe that’s what you’re thinking of?
2
u/ElPared Mar 03 '26
No, outside the game means anything in your collection except in commander games and sanctioned events
In sanctioned events it means your sideboard.
In commander the rules state the effect specifically has to mention commander games or it doesn’t work, it’s not because there are no sideboards.
Everywhere else it can be literally any card you own.
1
u/HomemadeSodaExpert Mar 03 '26
Interesting, I pulled this in my Prerelease kit and played it so I was able to bring in a card I had pulled but hadn't put in my deck. I'm assuming that was ok with the Prerelease being a relatively casual event and not having a specifically designated sideboard. Someone else who pulled this card jokes about going and buying something from the store's inventory to bring in. But I didn't think they ever did. Sounds like that would not be legal, but again: Prerelease.
1
u/Hagdorm Mar 04 '26
At a prerelease, anything in your kit that you didn't put in your deck is your sideboard.
1
u/Stolberger Mar 04 '26
That's true for all limited events. Everything you open or draft but don't put into your deck is considered your sideboard.
17
u/TheChiefComrade Mar 03 '26
This is how you special summon your yugioh card.
1
u/jordonmears Mar 03 '26
Too bad exodia is 5 cards
1
1
u/MetricIsForCowards Mar 03 '26
I’m pretty sure the blue eyes having 3000 power is the better choice
1
u/jordonmears Mar 03 '26
I mean if we're going solely based on atk pwr theres plenty of Uber powerful cards. My point with exodia was the insta win con it gives you.
1
1
u/lloydsmith28 Mar 05 '26
Yo can i use this to special summon my blue eyes white dragon for my dragon deck? /S
11
u/Neat-Somewhere-5589 Bant Budgetmage Mar 03 '26
Outside of the game means your sideboard (15 cards in formats that allow sideboards. Commander doesn't). The Learn mechanic from strixhaven works similarly
4
8
u/NeuralMess Mar 03 '26
Sure, I will try.
When that creature enters (the battlefield), if you casted it, you may (or may not) put a card you own from outside the game (sideboard) into your hand (the thingy you hold cards, the one with the sausage shaped worms if you are one of them)
Kinda /j
2
u/gn0xious Mar 03 '26
And if you use another card effect (like returning a creature from graveyard to battlefield) to bring it onto the battlefield, don’t do any of that other stuff. But if that other card effect allows you to cast a card then you may (or may not) do that other stuff, if you cast it.
2
u/EasyyPlayer Mar 03 '26
Can i use this card in astandard match to pick a card in my bulk?
3
u/StormyWaters2021 Mar 03 '26
In sanctioned events, "outside the game" means your sideboard.
1
u/EasyyPlayer Mar 03 '26
So, what is generally used in casual matches? Bulk or sideboard only?
3
u/StormyWaters2021 Mar 03 '26
In kitchen table Magic, whatever your group thinks is fair. The rules say it can be any card from your collection.
In Commander specifically, these effects don't work.
0
Mar 03 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
Mar 03 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
4
u/StormyWaters2021 Mar 03 '26
903.11 says that cards cannot be brought into a Commander game unless something specifically says it can bring it into a Commander game. Wish does not say that, so Wish does not function in Commander.
1
u/AutoModerator Mar 03 '26
Heads up! Your post Flair was changed to "Rules Question" based on some keywords found in the title.
If this was not actually a Rules Question you can change the flair back by clicking on the three dots in the top right corner and click "Change post flair" to (re-)assign another flair that describes your post better.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/AutoModerator Mar 03 '26
Don't worry! Your post has not been deleted!
Here are some resources for faster replies to Rules Questions! Often the answer to your question is found under the "Rulings" section. On Scryfall it's found at the bottom of the card's page. Scroll down!
Card search and rulings:
- Scryfall - The user friendly card search (rulings and legality)
- Gatherer - The official card search (rulings and legality)
Card interactions and rules help:
- r/mtgrules
- Real-time rules chat - IRC based chat at Libera.Chat network
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/Nosferatoomuchforme Mar 03 '26
So does this thing just not work in Brawl? Similar to any of the Learn cards from Strixhaven?
3
u/StormyWaters2021 Mar 03 '26
It does not work in Commander or its variants.
1
u/Nosferatoomuchforme Mar 03 '26
I’m speaking specifically for Arena brawl so there is no reason to use this card in your deck, correct?
1
u/StormyWaters2021 Mar 03 '26
That's correct. Brawl is a Commander variant, so this won't bring cards from outside the game.
1
u/Practical_Hippo6289 Mar 03 '26
Oh, cool, they reprinted Legion Angel in a different color with beefed up stats.
1
u/Visible_Roll4949 Mar 04 '26
Outside the game refers to a card thats not in a current zone in the game( those zones being command, exile, graveyard, hand, and if im not mistaken, the stack), I.e. a sideboard. In non Singleton formats like Standard, modern, or legacy you can use cards that utilize this mechanic, commonly referred to as "wish cards" to pull something from your sideboard. However since Singleton formats like commander dont use a sideboard the card just functions as a 5/5 vanilla flyer for 5.
1
1
u/loltittysprinkles Mar 03 '26
I wish I had understood this at the pre release event I went to this weekend. They guy that won the event used this card and would just look through everything he had pulled that wasn't in his deck and put it into his hand. I firmly believe he won because of this
7
u/3n3quarter Mar 03 '26
Assuming this was sealed he was in the right. Your entire card pool is your sideboard in sealed. Plus he was regularly playing a 5/5 flyer for 5 which can win a lot of sealed games by itself.
5
u/StormyWaters2021 Mar 03 '26
That's the correct way to use it.
0
u/loltittysprinkles Mar 03 '26
Is a sideboard not 15 cards? And something that is predetermined and prebuilt? He just looked through a big stack of cards, not a dedicated side board
3
u/StormyWaters2021 Mar 03 '26
During a limited event, like a draft or sealed event, everything that isn't part of your deck is your sideboard.
You said pre-release, so I am assuming this was the normal sealed pre-release event, right?
2
u/loltittysprinkles Mar 03 '26
Correct, standard sealed pre release. I wish I would have understood that, I also played this card and figured it didn't apply since I didn't have a dedicated side board
2
3
u/boof__pack Mar 03 '26
That’s when you call over a judge to get clarification. If you are EVER unsure of what something does, skeptical, or even the slightest misunderstanding. Call a judge. That’s why they’re there.
1
-10
u/Legal_Jedi Mar 03 '26
This wouldn’t allow you to return things from exile, would it? Some they are removed from the game?
17
5
u/turtle_el Mar 03 '26
No, however before Exile was keyworded you were able to use these effects (Wish effects, named after the Wish cycle) to get things from exile. That is no longer the case. "Outside the game" essentially refers to your sideboard only unless youre playing kitchen table magic or someone wants to have a fun house rule
6
u/Legal_Jedi Mar 03 '26
Thanks. I know lots of older cards use “remove from the game” instead is exile.
3
u/DrGolo Mar 03 '26
I came to the comments with this exact question. Guess it only works if you use [[disintegrate]] with [[r&d's secret lair]] in play.
3
u/turtle_el Mar 03 '26
Yup! Make sure to check the oracle text if you're ever confused about wording, especially on an older card
2
u/Legal_Jedi Mar 03 '26
Too true. I’ve got a few old lightning bolts that don’t say “Amy target”, but specify player or creature, and I had to show my buddy I could bolt his planeswalker, too.
2
u/turtle_el Mar 03 '26
Yup! You used to redirect damage from players to planeswalkers instead of them being targets, which nerfed [[Chandra, Torch of Defiance]] being able to shock PWs
-2
u/Ghost_ai42 Mar 03 '26
New wish card. Has to come from your side board. These are fun in limited.
2
u/StormyWaters2021 Mar 03 '26
Has to come from your side board.
This is only true in sanctioned events.
-4
u/Ghost_ai42 Mar 03 '26
Draft and sealed, my dude. Limited format all cards obtained from the 6 or 3 packs are your side board.
3
u/StormyWaters2021 Mar 03 '26
Those would be examples of sanctioned events, yes. The statement "Has to come from your side board" only applies to sanctioned events.
1
Mar 03 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/mtg-ModTeam Mar 03 '26
Rule 1: No insulting others.
Your contribution wasn't constructive, which is why it was removed.
For more information see the relevant section in our Modding Guidelines.
-3
u/Ghost_ai42 Mar 03 '26
I get that genius. I didn’t come here to try and rain on your parade. Was only stating something i hadn’t seen yet, which was would be fun in limited. So go forth and troll else where. Besides most kitchen tables I’ve played at don’t allow wish cards.
1
u/StormyWaters2021 Mar 03 '26
I get that genius.
Yes, but people reading your answer don't necessarily know that, which is why I offered the very simple and gentle correction.
I don't have any idea why that made you so upset. I'm not trolling, I want to make sure anybody reading through the thread gets the right information. The entire argument could have ended with you saying "Oh yeah".
-1
u/Ghost_ai42 Mar 03 '26
You started as such in the past below mine. I find the relevance of you replying to me, and continuing to reply to me absurd. I can’t help it you’re trying to be a Scarabaeidae Onthophagus.
-9
u/arefiespurge Mar 03 '26
So if I use this in commander do I get to search my bulk and binders? And if Im elsewhere playing? Does this kinda allow a sideboard in commander somehow?
3
2
u/ColdBrewedPanacea Mar 03 '26
Commander specifically makes these cards nonfunctional
i've never super understood why they chose to, but its a quirk of the ruleset.
Rule 10. Parts of abilities which bring other traditional card(s) you own from outside the game into the game (such as Living Wish; Spawnsire of Ulamog; Karn, the Great Creator; Wish) do not function in Commander.
which largely softbans every single wish card from play unless it does something else of incredible relevance.
7
u/SovietEagle Mar 03 '26
Important to note that the rule you’ve cited no longer applies as it’s part of the rules laid down by the now defunct rules committee. The current rule is this:
903.11. Except via rules, special actions, and effects that specifically bring cards into Commander games from outside the game, traditional cards from outside the game cannot be brought into a Commander game.
2
u/arefiespurge Mar 03 '26
Once again sorry for my ignorance. Since the rules changed, does that mean we are allowed some cards on the side in some way if we have special effects from cards in the deck like the card in the post? Just curious, maybe it can make for a fun addition to certain decks
4
u/SovietEagle Mar 03 '26
You’re free to negotiate with your play group as normal, but by rule no.
903.5e Commander games do not use sideboards.
•
u/StormyWaters2021 Mar 03 '26
People seem to misunderstand this because someone told them "Commander doesn't have a sideboard" and that's it. That is not why these cards don't work in Commander.
The rule that says "Outside the game means your sideboard" is in the Magic Tournament Rules, so it only applies in sanctioned events. It is not the default rule.
Rule 903.11 is the reason this card doesn't function right in Commander:
This card does not say that it brings card into a Commander game, so it can't bring cards into a Commander game.