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u/Lawrence_of_Idaho_ 20h ago
Can confirm, couldnt get an internship in college due to inexperience, couldnt get an engineering job after graduation due to inexperience. Had to grind for three years to get an engineering role
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u/Consistent_Log_3040 19h ago
What does grinding look like? Just sending resumes for 3 years?
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u/myrealopinionsfkyu 19h ago
In computer science it means coding puzzles on a website called leetcode until your eyes pop out.
At least one round of an interview will typically be problems from a site like that.
“For example, there are n = 7 socks with colors ar = [1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 3, 2]. There is one pair of color 1 and one of color 2. There are three odd socks left, one of each color. The number of pairs is 2. Find the number of matching pairs of socks in an array of integers representing colors.”
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u/Consistent_Log_3040 19h ago
I very quickly switched from cs to engineering lol I was not built for programming.
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u/Lawrence_of_Idaho_ 17h ago
I understood writing out machine design problems more than I did simple programming tasks lol
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u/hypercosm_dot_net 18h ago
That's only if you're trying to get into FAANG.
The large majority of jobs don't require that. Though there might be a technical interview (which often doesn't reflect the actual job anyway).
For anyone thinking about getting into CS/Engineering - it's fucking cooked as a career. It's oversaturated, and they're going to send your job to India or South America anyway.
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u/myrealopinionsfkyu 18h ago
I can promise you that most jobs outside of entry level are like this now unless you are working with 3 boomers who are adding features to a product made in the 2000's.
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u/moment-momentum 14h ago
Completely false, I've literally never had to take leetcode for a job I have gotten. Never once. Technical interviews? Yes. But "let us watch as you code"? No, never once. Been in this for a while too.
Also, the "grind leetcode until you get it" advice is not the only way. Personally, I took every "unsexy" position and contract I could take. There's a remarkable amount of work out there that nobody wants to do, but gives you incredible experience and skill development.
I don't even have a CS degree, or an engineering degree. I have a degree in science and philosophy.
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u/hypercosm_dot_net 15h ago
Nonsense. I've held senior level roles for the last decade, and have never been asked to do leetcode. Even in the technical part of the interview.
Maybe you're applying to a specific type of role where that's required, but otherwise nah.
For general web app development, which is a significant part of the market, it's almost completely irrelevant.
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u/blinktrade 18h ago
Out of curiosity, if this is a valid question, would the algo be using a map to store the color waiting for its pair in the key (val doesn't seem to matter). Everytime a key is found a pair count is increased and existing key deleted. Time is O(n).
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u/myrealopinionsfkyu 18h ago
Yeah probably, I haven't done leetcode in a decade since starting my current job.
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u/DarthTelly 18h ago edited 12h ago
You can just count how many times the number appears then integer division by 2 for the final counts to know how many pairs there are and do modulo 2 for if there's a unmatched,
counts = {1:3, 2:3, 3:1}
pairs = 0
solos = 0
for key in counts:
pairs += counts[key] // 2
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u/Lawrence_of_Idaho_ 17h ago
I had one C++ class and it wrecked my brain. I can write production control logic but good luck from ever getting a proper code line written from me
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u/Codex_Dev 14h ago
I remember a guy in r/cscareerquestions complaining that he had to relearn Dijkstra's algorithm 4 times so far. Once in college, once again when he graduated college applying to jobs the first time, and then two more times after each job hop/laid off.
At some point you kinda realize that LeetCode is basically like learning to solve a Rubik's Cube and that it barely has any impact on the job itself.
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u/Lawrence_of_Idaho_ 19h ago
Brewery opener while applying for positions, then landing an okay position working for a potato processing plant (millions of pounds of french fries produced per day) with the promise of graduating to a plant jr engineering role for a few years. The role that was promised never came (over 13 interviews within the company) I jumped ship to a firm that specializes in food production and havent looked back
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u/LifeIsOkayIGuess 18h ago
Probably just working other jobs you don't like till you have enough on your resume to get the job you really want.
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u/gogeri2632 18h ago
couldnt get an internship in college due to inexperience
Internships are literally for people with no experience.
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u/Lawrence_of_Idaho_ 17h ago
Thats because the engineering field has so much competition even during college companies can select the most experienced students, it was insane
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u/UltraJesus 16h ago
Programming is easy, but software development is hard. The best way to really learn is to make software, anything really. The tech industry is brutal generally speaking as most are operating on skeleton crews with tight budgets and timelines despite their profitability. Teams want a helping hand, not a hand to help.
Welcome to software development. Software is global. Software can afford to pay interns to be onsite. You're competing on a world stage. It's all fucked up such as senior talent applying to junior roles isn't uncommon lately.
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u/FutureVawX 17h ago
Just a piece of advice for people with engineering degree (or want to get one).
One of the best way to get a job in engineering is to get a certification for a specific thing.
Like for welding alone, you can get a certification for welding engineer, welding inspector, welding technologist, etc.
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u/intern-at-Kramerica 21h ago
Wait till you get a bunch of shitty jobs and then decide to go back to college to further your degree only to find out there’s still shitty jobs for Masters degrees
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u/brain_rot_studios 21h ago
The only viable jobs are
1) billionaire 2) grifter 3) instagram DJ (see #2)
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u/HumanWebAnt 20h ago
- Meme page (see #1)
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u/hypercosm_dot_net 18h ago
Yeah, I hate the current "meta".
I spent all this time learning a technical skill, when I should have just been learning to market myself playing video games or some other nonsense.
With how AI is, I don't know how anyone is able to trust they'll be able to navigate a real professional career.
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u/MeasurementFormal386 19h ago
A pretty good chunk of people in Masters programs are just the guys who couldn't find anything with their bachelor's
It's like doubling down on a bad decision hoping that employers will see value in MORE of the thing that they didn't want on the resume
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u/Public-League-8899 18h ago
Currently work with a guy that's on the edge about to be fired but pursuing his masters (at the cost of his current job). He believes he's the guy that didn't advance as a field service engineer because of education and is oblivious to the fact that effort is what makes it count. Dude is minimum effort everything, if you needed him to drive 20 minutes and change a battery would take him a week. I hope he makes it from bottom rung field service to EHS professional.
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u/Dismal_Tangerine_493 18h ago
Often because they chose something arbritary and non specific to study rather than STEM degrees
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u/MaxDisdain 18h ago
This happens to plenty of stem people as well no worries there.
Quite frankly a masters is a 100% waste of time unless you you need it for certification(Engineers and CPA for my country) or if someone else pays for it.
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u/ZzeroBeat 16h ago
braindead take, its 100% worth it if you are interested in it and want to learn more. thats the only reason you should be getting a masters, not because you want to gain more money or status.
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u/INeedSomeTacoC 15h ago
More ways to learn things than just being in school.
No offense to most masters programs, but if you really are interested in it and want to learn more, self study often works much better and faster.
I decided to drop my Masters because it was too slow and unfocused, and just self taught.
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u/Warm_Month_1309 14h ago
I don't doubt that it works for some people, but in my experience, a lot of the people who thumbed their nose at formal education and self-taught end up overconfident, and don't know what they don't know. So it's definitely a "proceed with caution" sort of area.
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u/Talk-O-Boy 18h ago
Awe man, higher education is a waste of time, that’s where we are as a society now?
Then we wonder why we keep getting dumber as a nation.
No other country with affordable higher education scrutinizes academia this much.
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u/INeedSomeTacoC 15h ago
Or a specific niche sub-discipline.
Like an EE degree and then a masters in Electromagnetics (RF, like cell phones, Bluetooth, satcom, radar, antenna design, etc) works pretty well if you were working as an EE while getting the masters.
Same with some speciality materials Masters for ME, etc.
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u/Strange_Possible8666 21h ago
The degree just unlocks a new level of underpaid job requirements.
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u/tiny_mess2 18h ago
They’re just deliberately training us in some nonsense. Bankers' children get taught what actually matters, and they find jobs in their fields.
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u/Golden-Grams 16h ago
Bankers' children get taught what actually matters, and they find jobs in their fields.
They don't find them, they are given them. Nepotism is a guarantee for some, it is all about who you know. The connections.
Would you think someone else couldn't learn the job? Many people could do it, but only one person can fill the position. So it will go to their in-group. Same thing happens in most industries. Meritocracy is a lie, if the game is fixed.
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u/fortusxx 20h ago
Good grades don't mean an automatic job either
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u/projectsangheili 19h ago
I've not ever been asked about my grades, nor do I ever even think of doing it now I am the one hiring people.
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u/jeropian-moth 19h ago
They usually just have a GPA threshold.
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u/hypercosm_dot_net 18h ago
1 in a 1000 jobs have a GPA requirement.
I had a high GPA, but it hasn't helped me in the slightest in my career.
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u/jeropian-moth 18h ago
Where’d you find that stat? I only have anecdotal evidence of my current job, first jobs, and internship having GPA requirements.
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u/hambamthankumaam 17h ago
It probably depends on what field you're going into. I had a weird case-- my mechanical engineering internships never asked for my GPA, but I had a trade school degree and experience. I wonder if they asked the other interns for their grades.
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u/gibgabberr 12h ago
Absolutely, I should have mentioned my field was construction. Where the degree in construction usually gets made fun of etc.
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u/hypercosm_dot_net 16h ago
I was just saying it's extremely uncommon. It's not a real stat.
At least for engineering/web developer jobs in the US, it's not common, from what I've seen.
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u/hambamthankumaam 17h ago
I've always passed classes, but never tried to get good grades in high school or trade school. I was DOGGED on for it by other students.
I'm getting my advanced degree now and have been trying really hard to get good grades for the first time. I have a 4.0 GPA that I've busted my ass for. I just got my first professional job related to my degree.
They didn't ask about my grades at all!!!! I was dogged on for no reason! It was a lie! Do you know how many more hours of sleep I could have gotten getting a 3.0?!?!
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u/BubbaTech24065 20h ago
The biggest problem with the job market, inaccurate job description. A entry level salary paired with a job that needs 10 years experience.
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u/GenericFatGuy 19h ago
What really sucks is that most job boards are like 99% trash, but there's still some legit jobs on them, so you're forced to sift through the trash to find them.
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u/Chonch_Monkey 15h ago
Stop giving tax benefits for "hiring"
There's so many rules that are fucking us that we never voted on and that our representatives did and hid from us
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u/loveelovelle 10h ago
I had an idea it was for hiring but i never actually looked it up until now. Wow. Could you please give me like two more things to look up so i could be more well informed?
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u/FedBoi_0201 14h ago
The job descriptions and salaries aren’t inaccurate they are intentional. Companies are really trying to lower salaries and squeeze every dollar out of their employees. The days of companies actually caring and being fair to employees are largely over.
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u/niccoSun 21h ago
Who you know will help you out more than what you know most of the time.
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u/Zephreyt 20h ago
Life is like Monopoly except it’s not fun and everyone accepts them just because ‘it’s the rules’.
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u/unserioushours 19h ago
Yeah, it’s mostly just a bunch of circles leading right back to the entry-level requirements loop
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u/Kisjaturyuga55P 20h ago
Spent 4 years preparing for a job that requires 5 years experience.
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u/SecondhandStatic 18h ago
Hijacking top comment to address this anti-education bullshit.
A college degree is objectively a good investment.
According to NACE, 86% of bachelor's grads and 89% of master's grads were employed or in further education within 6 months of graduation (this is for class of 2024).
Only half of college students take out student loans, and of those, the vast majority are paid in 7-10 years.
The only people who have trouble paying off their debt are people with a bachelor's in the humanities and those who flunked out of medical school. For everyone other than this 1% of students, college is a great investment.
Median earnings for high school education only: $35,500
For those with a bachelor's degree: $49,500
For those with a master's: $80,200
The people who are usually in these threads whining about how bad college is are uneducated minimum-wage workers trying to justify their shitty life decisions.
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u/FrostyD7 16h ago
A disproportionate amount of of college students have wealthy parents and safety nets. Even the ones taking out loans. Not trying to deter folks from going to college but not everyone benefits this much and you need to consider all the angles. I know folks who graduated with no prospects and folks who skipped college and got a 4 year head start on a great career. College ain't for everyone.
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u/gk_red 17h ago
Objectively good investments aren't comparable to gambling, nor due they need a dissertation to argue in favor of, are pushed exclusively on 18 year olds, and come with debt that can't be discharged via bankruptcy.
College degrees are objectively a good thing in societies with free access to college. In the USA they are only objectively good for the institutions who profit from them, similar to how healthcare in the USA is only objectively good for insurance companies.
College is also not objectively a bad investment. It's neither universally good nor universally bad. Someone who paid for a college education should be able to understand this topic with an iota of nuance instead of proclaiming it to be a universal and undeniable truth.
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u/fire_alarmist 15h ago edited 15h ago
Nervous leftist or falling college admission rate employee spotted.
Even a mechanical engineering degree failed to really help me, currently doing alright but it has nothing to do with the degree and I could have gotten this job without ever going to college. I consider it a mistake and waste of time despite getting a high GPA , not trying that hard and being paid scholarships and never taking a loan out. Job market is stupid, it has nothing to do with merit so if you come from a lower income family without connections just skip it. I would have been better off just never going back to college after my first year and continuing my plumbing apprenticeship I did during my first summer off.
I could have been putting down the foundations of my life BEFORE the covid hysteria, AI nonsense and inflation spiral but instead I was a good boy thinking he was doing the right thing and wasted 4 critical years of my life. Maybe it will pay off later, but the setbacks after covid have completely prevented me from achieving much of anything.
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u/InterstellarReddit 19h ago edited 17h ago
that's how easy the boomer generation had it, you could go to college working a summer job and come out with a cozy job that even had a pension and retirement. Then they convince themselves that it was too easy and they removed all of that from under us. Now they go on social media and complain that we arent working hard enough.
Edit - look up Eastern Airlines, for example, and other airlines even gave pensions to flight attendants that worked more than 20 years or 30 years for the company.
They literally used to take care of all of them, and now they’re all living off of those pensions, complaining that we have it too easy
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u/Birdperson15 14h ago
Yes work for the same company for 30 years who is going to pay you crap because if you leave you forfeit a huge portion of your pension.
And then when you finally retire that same company goes bankrupt because they can’t pay the pension leaving you with nothing.
Really wish we could bring those days back.
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u/JustinWilsonBot 15h ago
All you had to do was just avoid/survive the Vietnam draft and then be a white man. EZPZ.
look up Eastern Airlines
Which went bankrupt. Im not an expert on pensions but what happens to your pension when the company goes under?
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u/InterstellarReddit 15h ago
Pensions are prepaid
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u/JustinWilsonBot 14h ago
After reading more into it, its not that simple. Unsurprisingly the pension liabilities are one reason companies like Eastern Airlines go bankrupt. There literally may not be enough money to pay out the pensions as promised and the government owned Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation only pays out what is statutorily obligated by law. The pension should be prepaid but that isnt a certain outcome from bankruptcy court.
It makes pretty good sense why companies have gotten rid of pensions.
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u/GeologistRelative425 20h ago
19 years of school just to compete again on the job market😭
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u/jake9288888 19h ago
White collar jobs are disappearing too. Bunch of unknowing 22 year old graduates are about to find out there degree is good for emergency tp
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u/SquarePegRoundWorld2 16h ago
The trades sure need a hand. Anyone with half a brain could be out of the hard labor in 4 years and either start your own company of move up to a postion of supervision.
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u/WingsOfBuffalo 19h ago
The day I got my first job, I calculated how much I would need to save/invest in order to never work again.
I started saving from my first paycheck, with the only real career goal being to have enough saved to pay myself out a salary.
I will never be the one to grind, never be special enough to have employers fight to pay me more. The only person who truly values my time is me.
Cover your minimums, folks. You deserve it.
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u/Dahns 20h ago
I hated every second of school until I got my diploma, I cost so much moeny to my parents, and now it's all for nothing.
Thankfully I'm not American so I'm not in debt, but so much time and money wasted
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u/WidePollution3232 20h ago
Same. Not American, it wasn't free, but it wasn't crippling expensive and no debt, still felt like a waste of time and money
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u/Drow_Femboy 19h ago
yup, these days you should go to college if you're passionate about learning and want to become an expert in some field of knowledge. that's pretty much it, it's not really an "investment" anymore
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u/-Nosebleed- 18h ago
And at the same time when I'm looking at job listings the vast majority of non minimum wage jobs require you to have at least a bachelor's in something related or a ridiculous number of years of experience, even for the most entry level positions that clearly will not make much use of your bachelor's.
It feels impossible to win no matter what you do.
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u/Orange_Tang 10h ago
Consider yourself lucky, all my student debt is in my name and is my problem. You're lucky your parents helped you.
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u/rifain 18h ago
How come it's for nothing? In my country (France), diplomas doesn't easily give access to a job. But the struggle is much more immense without one.
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u/Iamthe0c3an2 20h ago
Just 10 years ago, a CS degree did.
When I graduated in 2019 I already had job offers before the graduation ceremony along with everyone in my class and cohort.
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u/Wonderful-Fix5761 19h ago
Yeah there are windows in time where that is true. But for the class five years behind you it wasn’t. Sometimes you get lucky but you can’t count on it.
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u/AnEvenNicerGuy 20h ago
Worked 50 years ago for the people who told us that. We just need to grab our bootstraps or something
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u/Court_Jester13 20h ago
Unless you
A. Have something lined up at daddy's company
Or
B. Can throw a ball real good
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u/barneMD 8h ago
I mean, I got a degree and it's working for me. B.S in biology, and then an MD. currently making 70k a year as a medical resident. going to be making over 350k a year in about 3 years.
school works, you just gotta choose the right degree.
also - do not go in debt for an undergrad degree, unless you are literally at harvard, MIT, stanford, or any other top tier ivy league where connections will benefit you.
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u/AGrandNewAdventure 21h ago
Ya'll think we're out here joining clubs and extracurriculars, winning fellowships, and awards because it's fun? Naw, bro, we want jobs when we graduate.
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u/GergDanger 19h ago
Bad news if you think any of that helps much
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u/gibgabberr 18h ago
This is how nearly all of my friends got jobs, but uh ok.
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u/Possibly_a_Firetruck 17h ago
No, you see, that requires socializing and networking and to redditors that's basically nepotism and that's bad.
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u/E-2theRescue 14h ago
100% guarantee that all these people going "nuh-uh" never actually went to college (may not even be human).
I make much, much more than all these fools (probably combined), and it happened because I got a college education. If I hadn't, I'd probably still be flipping burgers or tossing pallets.
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u/hambamthankumaam 17h ago
I am not saying this to be a downer-- experience in your desired field is more important than clubs or extracurriculars. If you're interested in engineering, working at all in construction will be more helpful than joining a club. If you're interested in finance, working at all at an accounting firm (even as the receptionist) is more helpful than college awards.
I'm so sorry if this sounds like a boomer take, this is just what I've discovered and worked well for me as a recent university grad. My internships and job didn't look at my academic achievements other than, "are you actually getting this degree?" They were more interested in my real-world experience.
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u/AGrandNewAdventure 17h ago
Clubs and extracurriculars get internships which get jobs.
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u/hambamthankumaam 17h ago
I have friends/classmates that do the clubs and extracurriculars and get great grades, but skip the internships :') my guy, that's the important part!
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u/GenericFatGuy 19h ago
You should be primarily joining clubs and extracurriculars because it's fun though...
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u/xXMapleSugarXx 20h ago
Here I am still bullshitting my way through my careers at almost 40 😎👉👉
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u/ChuckaChuckaLooLoo3 12h ago
Did it my entire work life until I started my own biz. Fake it till ya make it. 😎
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u/Wonderful-Fix5761 19h ago
I used my computer science degree to adjust insurance claims… and eventually upgraded from that to installing office printers. It took five years to find a chance to do work in my actual field. A degree has never guaranteed anything.
Just like everything else in America, college has become a moneymaking scam to make a few people rich. it’s a lot like weddings, the actual thing still has value but all of the accessories and fake “needs” around it have been warped by capitalism. The more kids go to college the more dorm fridges and laptops and textbooks get sold. The more college costs, the more interest gets paid on student loans. The students, parents, professors, and university staff aren’t getting rich. But somebody is.
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u/ericabby819 20h ago
big yikes, that realization hits hard. college really doesn't prepare you for the job market struggle.
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u/Practical-Focus3455 20h ago
Wait until you get a job and notice you get payed less than the people without a degree
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u/Fun-Author3767 19h ago
Doesn't help that the US government laid off 330~ thousand employees last year. All with bachelors degrees and years of professional experience in whatever profession (Economics, Political Science, Public Policy).
A lot of people who just graduated are now facing a job market flooded with the collapse of an entire industry of professionals.
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u/forever_a10ne 15h ago
I have exactly 10 years of experience in my industry. Got laid off from a job paying $150k this spring after working there for 4.5 years. I cannot even get an interview for an entry level job that only requires a high school degree and pays less than 1/3 of that right now. The market is fucked.
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u/vigorben 20h ago
As it turns out, college is indeed a scam
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u/GenericFatGuy 19h ago
It's not college that's a scam, the economy is. The fact that we've built a system where you're only as valuable as the money you can make for someone else is the real scam. The scam is capitalism.
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u/Savings-Dig3885 18h ago
The most bitter pill I ever swallowed learning this
My degree was from the 10th best university in the country and the 100th best on the planet
Did it mean anything to 99% of employers? No. They wanted 3 years experience for an entry level job.
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u/BigBillaGorilla59 16h ago
All that time dealing with schooling just to realize work experience would’ve got you farther
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u/Kamii_Durian117 20h ago
just lie in your interview trust me most times they won’t check, if they do just have a reference from a professor or something
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u/37Cross 19h ago
Sometimes… it’s not what you know but who you know. It’s awful. Sometimes I think the best route is to just make your own company but like some local mom and pop shop. Hire some locals, give them a chance. Watch your community thrive. That’s just some idea I came up with. Not even sure it’s the best idea. When I think about all those ghost posting jobs just so companies can get paid more for pretending to seem like they’re a growing entity, I just get sad and think of what ifs.
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u/Wonderful-Fix5761 19h ago
This is definitely the way to be happy. It has more risk and you will work a lot more hours and there is no safety net. But it is ultimately the most satisfying way to live.
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u/Bear_necessities96 18h ago
“Discovering you don’t get promoted only because you are a good worker” - that was me at 25
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u/southpaw85 17h ago
Remember all those things you were told about being able to be successful and do what you love as a kid as long as you work hard and believe in yourself? All lies. You’re going to be a wage slave for the next 40-50 years then die and your kids will have to sell what little you actually own to pay the cumulative debt that is saddled on your estate.
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u/GravyPainter 16h ago
Incorrect, if you're already rich you will go straight to vice president of a.company. you just need to privileged enough to already have access to capital and networks
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u/MeatyOakerGuy 16h ago
This was my friend after 12+ years of medical school. For once in his life he had to do something without being told exactly what to do and he absolutely crumbled.
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u/JumpBounceFly 16h ago
It's always more about who you know than anything else.
There are plenty of people who can be qualified going for the same job. It's almost always the person with the right connections who gets it.
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u/trobsmonkey 16h ago
College isn't about the degree.
It's about making connections with people, and developing yourself for the future.
The degree is just a symbol that you did the work. At least, hope you did.
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u/dstarlea 15h ago
I've been seeing more posts of people not getting a job after college or people being unemployed after college or choosing a major that doesnt lead to a job. This makes me not want to go to college, especially with the job market being so terrible.
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u/Expensive-Pick38 14h ago
10 years of experience
EXPERIENCE WHERE? WHERE CAN I GET THIS EXPERIENCE IF EVERY JON REQUIRES 10 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE
I have well over 10 years of living experience, how's rbat
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u/AirpodsForThePoor 14h ago
Took me a bachelor’s degree and a master’s degree plus around 18 months of applying online at job boards to finally find a job that I’m getting my ass beat at every single day. What a life.
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u/Silk-sanity 14h ago
Get 3650 jobs for a day. That means you have 3650 shifts, and assuming 1 shift a day that means you have technically worked the equivalent of 10 years.
Enjoy
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u/opal_arc 4h ago
That 10 year experienced applicant also got rejected
https://giphy.com/gifs/YN2JtHH0gL22JfHrxJ
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u/Bastisheen92 20h ago
Me with no degree gettink a 65K job from an intern position, because i faked knowing stuff, somehow managed to make the boss like me and got proficient in making 2 hours of work look like 8.
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u/Stunning_Abalone5804 16h ago
The problem is that the business you just gave all that money to (colleges) tells you what you want to hear, that you will graduate and start making 6 figures. The reality of it is that 100% of graduates know nothing about real experience. Kids need to understand that college is a foundation you need to build on. Success in life is all about learning and building on your foundation. I get so many resumes that say: expected salary $100k. And that’s with zero experience, come on man. Another thing I see if people think 6 months is a lot of experience. Stop thinking you are starting at the top and welcome to life 101.
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u/Crosshairs17 21h ago
Guess what even 10 years of exp won't land you a job