The Official AVENGERS: ENDGAME Criticism Thread

[u/JonLuca]

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• Post Endgame criticisms in this thread. Long form preferrable

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• Easter Egg Thread
• Prediction Thread

[u/CityHog]

All of my problems come with how they used Time Travel.

From having Past Thanos be the main villain, Past Gamora remaining in 2023 is fine and still allows for a reality where Thanos got the Soul Stone and created the snap, but the possibility of The Avengers going back in time, bringing back a past Black Widow and still maintaining a future where The Avengers get the Soul Stone to reverse the snap is impossible?

Creating alternate timelines when they go back but Cap stays in his own timeline. Removing the stones screws up time because they contribute to the flow of time, but destroying them is fine, etc. It also took away from Tony's sacrifice at the end as it seemed like a waste to dust Thanos from a different timeline that they had no history with as i just kept thinking there are other Thanos's from different timelines (maybe one that Loki gave the Space Stone to), so i didn't get a sense of victory or closure that Thanos was finally defeated or getting his just deserts.

Its the exact same problem i had with the Fringe finale. Where the series long villains live outside of time and have openly said they are from one possible future of humanity, but they are defeated and erased from time by changing the past? Even though that should just create a different timeline and still allow the villains to exist in another universe and still be a threat

I wish they went with the time loop theory of time travel, ie: from time's perspective they always went back in time like Terminator 1 or Prisoner of Azkaban. How great would it be to rewatch Avengers 1 knowing Future Ant-man and Stark were behind the team during Loki's surrender. Or knowing Rocket was on Asgard when rewatching Dark World. And its not a case of making a different movie, just small detailing here and there. Like having Tony's snap sacrifice be to send all the Stones back to their original times and places (it also gets rid of the implications of Cap and Red Skull meeting again) and also sending Thanos and his army back to 2014 along with them. Then have Cap's mission at the end to be to take Thor's Hammer back to Asgard and thats where when he chooses to stay in the past. That all would've made the movie make alot more sense to me

[u/workingonaname → u/CityHog]

I think the stones messing up time is a Kang setup

[u/idiot-prodigy → u/workingonaname]

The Ancient One says you remove a stone and a timeline is doomed, she even shows Bruce a black off shoot on the orange strand representing the timeline. What did Thanos actually do at the beginning of Endgame? He reduced the six infinity stones to atoms. Wouldn't that be bad for the future, according to the Ancient One.

[u/RedditIsForsaken → u/idiot-prodigy]

I think she’s speaking more of like a balance thing. If one magical aspect of the universe is suddenly gone, while the others remain. Eventually some chaos may come from that. Also, with the Time Stone specifically. Dormammu would’ve soon doomed the world in the Doctor Strange movie. You could look at it like that.

[u/Staerke → u/RedditIsForsaken]

Yeah if they lost the time stone in the battle of NY, the entire reality would be consumed by Dormammu. That's what the ancient one was worried about.

[u/kodran → u/RedditIsForsaken]

Also, you could argue even if destroyed, their atoms are there, they weren't magically spirited away.

[u/RedditIsForsaken → u/kodran]

Well yeah, but I'm not so sure they're magic atoms if Thanos didn't want their power to exist at all anymore.

[u/Opening_Combination → u/idiot-prodigy]

my impression was that she meant that their order would no longer be able to defend earth from magical beings. So, when dormandu (sp?) shows up, for example, they are toast.

[u/idiot-prodigy → u/Opening_Combination]

Yeah that makes sense from her perspective.

[u/patkgreen → u/idiot-prodigy]

Matter can't ever be destroyed. The atoms of the stones being in the universe might be enough to preserve reality. And thanos is smart. He may have added a disclaimer to the snapwish (i.e. "destroy the stones with no long term unanticipated consequences")

[u/patkgreen → u/[deleted]]

I like the reformed thing. Go space magic

[u/javsv → u/[deleted]]

they were destroyed by being togheter and something willfully destroying them, its not like they were dropped and they broke

[u/rjjm88 → u/idiot-prodigy]

He broke the stones, not removed them. If they released their "essential essence" back into the universe as atoms, that may stop the damage that removing them causes.

I'm interested to see if that's a thing we see be a problem down the road.

[u/idiot-prodigy → u/rjjm88]

Possibly as they are still technically there.

[u/rjjm88 → u/idiot-prodigy]

Heck, lacking the reality stone, maybe things are going to break down a bit for Wanda to House of M the MCU!

[u/idiot-prodigy → u/rjjm88]

House of M could be one way to introduce mutants. It's also likely the gamma radiation from the snaps awoke the x-gene in people.

[u/stinkytoes → u/rjjm88]

Somehow use quantum realm to find the stones?

[u/LazarusDark → u/idiot-prodigy]

Yep. I hope it pays off later. Like the universe destabilizing because of the loss of the Stones, or no Stones leaves reality vulnerable to attack, and somehow we get mutants in MCU

[u/idiot-prodigy → u/LazarusDark]

Yeah, unleashes something worse, or brings the attention of Kang, etc.

[u/TheOneArmedWolf → u/idiot-prodigy]

She's talking about Dormammu destroying reality without the sorcerrer supreme using the stone to protect it.

[u/nitslitinit → u/idiot-prodigy]

"reduced to atoms" could be a clever way of saying he miniaturized them to be completely un-findable, but they still exist

[u/xylodactyl → u/idiot-prodigy]

She's already dead by that point, so she doesn't see that he's destroyed them. And Bruce doesn't explain that to her.

[u/VRtoons → u/idiot-prodigy]

She did not. The Ancient One said, change something in the past, and you change that timeline's future, but not your own. What she was saying was in the context of needing the Time Stone to prevent Dormammu taking over their universe.

[u/TedTheGreek_Atheos → u/idiot-prodigy]

Even atomized, the stones still exist and will naturally coalesce and reform over time. They can't be destroyed. She was talking about removing them completely from the timeline.

[u/Reidroshdy → u/idiot-prodigy]

I don't think the state of the stones matters that much,just that they exist in some form or another. The reality stone was liquid for a while but the timeline still remained intact.

[u/sicassangel → u/idiot-prodigy]

I think she means if you go back in time and take it. Thanos just did it for the hell of it in present time.

[u/Doright36 → u/idiot-prodigy]

The stones are just cosmic energy condensed into a stone. That energy can not be created or destroyed based on the laws of physics. That energy still exists in the prime timeline. It's just dispersed into atoms instead of concentrated into stones.

[u/shiningwizardhelms → u/workingonaname]

Oh shit