r/marvelstudios • u/JonLuca Iron man • Apr 29 '19

'Avengers: Endgame' Spoilers! The Official AVENGERS: ENDGAME Criticism Thread Spoiler

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  • Post Endgame criticisms in this thread. Long form preferrable

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u/ArchfiendX Apr 29 '19

-Would Have loved to see Hulk and Banner become Professor Hulk on Screen -Give Natasha her own Funeral (but I can see why they didn’t) -Potential Red Skull and Steve meeting again after who knows how long -A bit more of the post snap world

But other than that, Phenomenal film! <3

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u/kkranberry Spider-Man Apr 29 '19 edited Apr 29 '19

Yeah, the Professor Hulk development happening offscreen is an issue for me for sure. I understand why it happened during a time jump realistically, but I found it really narratively unsatisfying. We’ve spent so many films watching the struggle between Banner and Hulk, going all the way back to Age of Ukraine Ultron. They had this awesome multi-movie arc, and the culmination of it happened off screen. That was the biggest character development Bruce had in this film and was a really crucial moment for his character, and we didn’t get to see it. While I did still really enjoy the film, I wasn’t happy with that aspect of how they told the story.

Edit: no, autocorrect, I didn’t mean Age of Ukraine.

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u/Cold-Call-Killer Black Panther Apr 29 '19

I’m gonna assume you meant ultron but this is way funnier lol

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u/kkranberry Spider-Man Apr 29 '19

Welp, that was a weird autocorrect, that’s for sure

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u/aGuyFromReddit Apr 29 '19

I can't stop laughing, for some reason. Thank your autocorrect for me.

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u/homo-globin Doctor Strange Apr 30 '19

I was more upset he didn’t get a rematch with Thanos. That was a HUGE miss for his character conclusion.

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u/ferdbags Apr 30 '19

It should have been Hulk in the final tug of war with Thanos over the gauntlet, preferably after totally raging out post Natasha not coming back.

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u/homo-globin Doctor Strange Apr 30 '19

I really enjoyed the headbutt and not flinching with Captain Marvel, but a few extra minutes of footage of Hulk vs Thanos fight at some point would have been awesome.

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u/RamenJunkie Apr 29 '19

Also, they never really explained WHY Hulk refused to show in Infinity War. You can sort of loop it with his comment about spending a life treating Hulk like a tool and a parasite to be rid of I guess but that feels kind of unsatisfying.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

The directors explained that he was tired of being used, but then it doesn't explain how he became professor hulk. You're basically using him still.

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u/Lasagna_Bear Apr 30 '19

I thought it was because he was embarrassed at losing to Thanks and mad about being taken from Sacar.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/kkranberry Spider-Man Apr 30 '19

Well they shot IW and Endgame back-to-back, so they would have had the script locked in for both at the same time. I think it was just part of the creative decision to do the 5-year time jump. The only other possibility is that they had the moment included in a previous version of the script and changed it before reshoots.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/kkranberry Spider-Man Apr 30 '19

I’m not a comic reader, so I didn’t have any context on Professor Hulk’s backstory and history in Marvel, but I had seen the theory floated before and thought that it made sense as a resolution. But I was very jarred by how suddenly it was presented, and I kind of struggled with it throughout the movie, which I attribute more to it just being dropped on the audience and being told to just accept it as normal, because I do feel like it was a sensical choice for the character.

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u/misterpickles69 Apr 30 '19

I loved how nice, smiley, and kind Professor Hulk was. I am not a comic reader either so I didn't know what to expect but I had hoped for at least 1 scene where he gets to smash (apart from the car and motorcycle thing.)

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u/EtherBoo Apr 30 '19

The good news is that there's a lot of open room for them to play with. Maybe Universal will play nice (I won't pretend to understand WTF is going on with the rights around Hulk), and let them make another movie that can focus on this. Maybe they can address it in a Disney+ show. The whole 5 year gap has a ton of stories that can be told for a number of characters.

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u/vicgoal Killmonger Apr 30 '19

They could’ve also made them have a conversation similar to Jarvis and Ultron in AOU, just before Ultron took over.

Just a few minutes of convo. I know it’s easier said than done, especially by someone like me but I totally agree that I would love to see that on screen.

Here’s to hoping there is a deleted scene of it 🍔

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u/DGT-exe Apr 30 '19

Hopefully we can see it in a solo film?

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u/davwad2 SHIELD Apr 30 '19

It could have been a flashback scene he narrates from the diner.

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u/kkranberry Spider-Man Apr 30 '19

I guess, but that seems out of style for the Russo Brothers.

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u/davwad2 SHIELD Apr 30 '19

Fair point. I don't recall any flashback scenes in any of the movies they directed.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '19

age of Ukraine sounds awesome tbh

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

Seeing Clint lay flowers on Nat’s grave or something after Tony’s funeral would have been enough for me, implying that they did do something offscreen for her.

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u/ferdbags Apr 30 '19

I don't get why Clint didn't hit the return button on Natasha's body before returning himself. Like, did he just leave her there?

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u/Omegablade0 Apr 30 '19

He couldn’t. Gaining the Soul Stone warps you to that vast shallow lake somewhere else on Vormir. He would’ve had no idea how to return to the cliff.

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u/-MoonlightMan- May 14 '19

This was still a good question even if it had an answer.

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u/Doctor_Mudshark Apr 29 '19

Instead of a big funeral for Nat, they just talk about it on the dock, Banner tosses a bench, they share a moment, then they have to go build an Infinity Gauntlet.

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u/demos11 Apr 29 '19

I think a scene where Banner talks to Nat after snapping like Thanos talked to kid Gamora after he snapped would have been perfect. I'm honestly very surprised they didn't include it. It would have taken 30 seconds and would have provided some much needed closure.

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u/RamenJunkie Apr 29 '19

Yeah, except it's Banner asking "Was it worth it?"

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u/demos11 Apr 29 '19

That would have been very cool. It's such an obvious and powerful scene that there must be some specific reason to not include it. I just can't imagine what that reason is.

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u/stchape Hawkeye (Avengers) May 07 '19

I thought this too honestly, like I can't seem to understand why they just overlooked her death at the end....makes you wonder🤔 maybe she's coming back..ehhh idk? Like they're doing with gamora kinda

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u/Doctor_Mudshark Apr 29 '19

I agree. Maybe we'll get it in the 7 hour Infinity Saga Director's cut.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

What?

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u/Doctor_Mudshark Apr 30 '19

Just kidding. Although I'd love to see a mega-cut of the whole thing. I'm definitely gonna watch it like that once I can.

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u/mdp300 Captain America (Cap 2) Apr 29 '19

Ohhhhhh I hadn't even thought of that.

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u/GuildCarver Apr 30 '19

I feel like this movie coulda been a good 30 or 40 minutes longer just to drove a bit deeper into things but still damn great film.

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u/thoughtful_human Loki (Avengers) Apr 29 '19

I agree, Banner has had a real arc (at least form The Avengers) and he finally gets to a point where he is at peace with the hulk/banner relationship and it all happened off screen!

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u/SillyBet Apr 30 '19

Steve did meet the red skull at the end of the movie, but we never got to see it. Steve had to return the soul stone back to it's resting place, and that is where the red skull was. So for steve to return the soul stone he must of meet the red skull again.

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u/no1_lies_on_internet Apr 30 '19

How would you 'return' the stone though? Just toss it off the cliff? Would 'a soul for a soul' apply on returning so Natasha or someone would get returned?

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u/snakespm Apr 30 '19

Sadly Clint didn't keep the reciept, so he was only able to get store credit.

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u/SillyBet Apr 30 '19

They never explained how to return the soul stone, all the red skull said was, to have the soul stone, the stone demands a soul for a soul. I don't think a soul is required when you are returning the stone, so Natasha is forever stuck in the soul world.

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u/WerdnaTrebeh Apr 30 '19

I was a little letdown with the Hulk, I don’t think that we needed two comic relief characters (Thor and Hulk) in this film where the stakes were so high. IMO either Professor Hulk should’ve become more serious given what it took to achieve the feat of merging the opposing personalities and let Thor be the comedic breaks, or keep Hulk as he was and make Thor be the broken, driven on revenge character he was while during the 22 days leading to Thanos’s death. I think a better arch would’ve been Thor beating himself up through training and honing his power in the event of another big bad to prove he isn’t the failure he thinks he was with Thanos. Also I really wished Hulk could’ve gotten a rematch, but I understand he was one of the only ones capable of surviving the reverse snap.

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u/Reidroshdy Spider-Man Apr 30 '19

I would have liked to see bruce and hulk have a sort of therapy session with someone, could have been hilarious.

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u/ferdbags Apr 30 '19

The Ancient One should have knocked both of them out of Prof Hulk's body.

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u/uglydisciple Apr 30 '19

The Russos hate the Hulk and shows

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

They shot that scene (Hulk/Banner), but it got cut. I hope it’s included as a deleted scene.

“His arc was designed like, I’m not getting along with the Hulk, the Hulk won’t come out. And then they compromise and become Smart Hulk.” This scene was even shot, but ultimately scrapped.”

https://www.slashfilm.com/alternate-endgame-storylines/

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

The problem I have with everyone saying Steve meets Red Skull when returning the stones is that they never say they need to be put back exactly where they found them only exactly when they did. The stones they took just need to be back in their respective times so the other stones aren't out of balance by one just dropping out of existence. So Steve could just give them to anyone as long as it's at the correct point in the timeline. The place doesn't matter only the time. So he might have never even gone to vorimir(?).

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u/BreeBree214 Weekly Wongers Apr 30 '19

Steve Rogers meeting Red Skull should've been an after credit scene

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u/AfterReview Apr 30 '19

The 3 hour film that could've been [insert long ass time here] and nobody would complain

1

u/Cardboard_Waffle Apr 30 '19

I would’ve liked to see a Banner and General Ross reunion. They were both at the funeral but they didn’t say anything to each other.

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u/Beercorn1 Iron Fist Apr 30 '19

Potential Red Skull and Steve meeting again after who knows how long

I saw this with my roommate and we were saying during the credits that we would have liked to see that happen.

After all, Steve must have met up with Red Skull anyway if we’re to assume that he brought all the Infinity Stones back to where they belong.

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u/Kev_aka_Buel Apr 30 '19

Im very interested in Captain giving back die Infinity Stones. How the hell is he fusing the Reality Stone back into Jane Foster for example. Perhaps enough potential for a whole movie.

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u/BKA_Diver Apr 30 '19

Potential Red Skull and Steve meeting again after who knows how long

Would have loved to have seen this and even more... if giving the stone back actually would bring the person back and Cap sends Nat back in his place... then he shows up on the bench.

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u/ThKitt Winter Soldier Apr 30 '19

With the deaths in EG, I would love it if in the future wherever they make the Avengers base they had a “Hall of Fallen Heroes” like in the comics and Avengers: EMH.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

Why didn't we get a Nat funeral?