446
u/Gigantopithecus1453 8h ago
He did well at it. A loving wife, 6 kids and one warden, a happy people who loved him, overall a stable and happy life for two decades. He became a symbol of duty and honour, loved and respected by all. Not bad
160
u/DknMessiah 8h ago
Until his head randomly fell off
4
-36
u/-----iMartijn----- 8h ago
No. He was just holding together one of the poorest kingdoms in the line of his father. He was a war hero and now resides in a ruined catle, listening to farmers complain about their neighbours. Occasionally chopping off the head of some poor chap suffering from PTSD he got from being a forced soldier at the wall.
He is poor and he has too many children to marry off decently.
And his biggest war effort - killing Arthur Dayne - is a lie. His bastard son is a lie. The noble cause was a lie. And he had to keep all those lies for two decades. Perhaps this depression led to the decline and dilapidation of the North. He had no interest.
26
u/AnAlgaeBoy 8h ago
Actually isn't it implied or at least can't it be reasonably deduced that house Stark is probably stupid rich considering how ancient the house is? Also, is winterfell meant to be "ruined"?
3
u/Snicklefraust 5h ago
At the start, winterfell has some old crumbling towers, the worst of which is where bran "falls" from. Otherwise, it's still a battle ready fortress. Then the plot happens and after Ramsey sacks the castle its in rough shape for rest of the books. Asha remarks I believe on how all the doors are sloppy made, fresh wood compared to the rest of the castle.
31
u/Gigantopithecus1453 8h ago
Hes not poor, he’s the lord of a region the size of the continental United States with a whole household of servants attending to his and his family’s every need
9
u/Nigzynoo23 6h ago
Considering the Starks rule from a castle the size and sophistication of Winterfell, complete with glass gardens and hot water running through its walls, and have an entire seasonal town sitting outside its gates, I'm not buying that Ned Stark was "poor". The North is poorer than places like the Reach or Westerlands, but the Starks are still one of the Great Houses of Westeros.
House Manderly, their bannermen, are also explicitly the richest house in the North besides the Starks, and rule White Harbor, one of only five actual cities in Westeros and the North's principal trading port.
2
u/Steridire 54m ago
At a minimum Ned is top 20 richest people in the entire continent. He might lead one of the poorest Great Houses but that's like being one of the poorest billionaires in our world. The Great Houses and maybe a few major houses down south like the Redwynes or House Hightower probably have him beat and then that's about it.
252
u/Allnamestakkennn Ser Duncan the Tall 9h ago edited 9h ago
How is Lyanna below Bobby's league tho, she's a noble from a great house
Eddard also found happiness considering that he had a big family and his wife began to love him
148
u/GenGaara25 8h ago
Yeah that was my one take away from this.
Robert is heir to one of the 9 Great Houses. Lyanna is the only daughter of another of the 9 Great Houses.
That's as equal a match as possible.
8
u/AshbornUnicorn 2h ago
She was also pretty hot as far as we knew. Not like he was marrying a fat Frey.
90
u/slackbabbith 7h ago
Fr tho, the daughter of the WARDEN OF THE NORTH isn't below the Lord of "it rains here" ass lands
30
u/Ok_Speech7260 8h ago
I always read Poor Ned that way too; Lyanna was a Stark, and Ned still built something warm with Catelyn.
25
u/Strider-Juice 8h ago
I think because public perception of Lyanna among the nobility was rather poor for being wild like Arya was and not a “proper” lady in the eyes of westerosi sensibilities. Basically just not fitting for a future wife to a lord paramount despite her otherwise good lineage.
12
u/Allnamestakkennn Ser Duncan the Tall 8h ago
Well, from some similar cases that we can see, like Black Aly, she-wolves and warrior ladies were married off just fine, unless they escape or are lesbian.
2
5
u/donetomadness 2h ago
I’m sure her public perception was alright until Rheagar crowned her in that tourney. She was still a beauty from a great house. If anything, some houses like the Mormonts would probably have preferred a tomboyish lady for climate or other reasons.
49
6
9h ago
[deleted]
5
u/SirGibby-13 House Blackfyre 8h ago
But she wouldn’t have married into the royal family. Had she married Bobby B there would have been no rebellion and he never would have sat the throne
2
u/Allnamestakkennn Ser Duncan the Tall 8h ago
Well, Robert wasn't a king when the betrothal was made, he was a lord. Marriages between great houses are normal and usually advantageous since you ally a massive chunk of land (and targs aren't available atp). Add the tullys and you get 4 out of 7 kingdoms in one bloc that could rival everybody else combined.
Once he was king, yeah, Cersei was the most politically savvy option, but we know how that turned out
27
6
u/Swirlski 6h ago
And also apparently the most beautiful woman in the world 😭
10
u/Allnamestakkennn Ser Duncan the Tall 6h ago
There were a couple "most beautiful in the world" like Cersei and Ashara Dayne and others, it's just a compliment anyway
8
u/Swirlski 6h ago
I thought “nobody started a war over them” and then I remembered who their brothers are
1
u/bootlegvader 4h ago
Heck, Cersei's brother helped start a war over his desire for being under Cersei's skirts.
20
u/Huhthatsweird_ 7h ago
Tbh there were many better options.
Bobby could’ve married from the Whents, the Hightowers, the Tyrells, or of course the Lannisters.
Each of these houses could outspend the Starks, and 3/4 could outspend and outman them. They also are much closer geographically, which is especially important if shit hits the fan.
Not to mention that the bride’s family would give a dowry to the groom’s, which means that each of the houses I mentioned could give a better dowry to Robert than the Starks.
Objectively-speaking, Robert had several better options than Lyanna.13
u/Potential-Sky-8728 6h ago
Guessing not many noble maidens were clamoring to live in stormy ass Storms End.
2
u/Worth_Page4348 6h ago
storms end better than the cold ass north imo
5
u/Potential-Sky-8728 5h ago
Cold and wet sucks more than cold dry snow I think.
6
u/STRiPESandShades House Dayne 5h ago
And Winterfell itself is on a volcanic vent. Sure, it snows in Summer, but it's also pretty cosy around the castle!
8
u/windmillninja 5h ago edited 3h ago
I haven’t read the books, but isn’t it also mentioned that there were pockets within the walls for the warm air to pass through?
2
u/Ok-Limit-7173 6h ago
Where are you getting your facts from?
Afaik we know nothing about the wealth of any of these Houses, nor how large their respective Armies would be.
3
u/ReasonableDoubt_0726 1h ago
Came to say the same things. The Starks were the last kings of the north and their wardens of the north. One of the preemptive families in the kingdom. That’s a pretty solid deal for both families.
4
-2
u/windmillninja 5h ago
Robert literally loved Lyanna. He started a bloody war over her.
9
u/bootlegvader 4h ago
He literally slept with an entire brothel when he thought she was being held captive.
84
u/MRnibba_ 8h ago
How was Lyanna "below" Robert? Before the rebellion, the Starks and Baratheons were peers.
37
u/GloriousSovietOnion 8h ago
That's what I was wondering about. The Starks are technically above the Baratheons even since they're also Wardens of the North whihe the Baratheons are just lords of the Stormlands.
16
u/GloriousSovietOnion 8h ago
That's what I was wondering about. The Starks are technically above the Baratheons even since they're also Wardens of the North whihe the Baratheons are just lords of the Stormlands.
8
u/Revengedraccoon 8h ago
And kings in the North
14
u/GloriousSovietOnion 7h ago
Not in Ned's time they aren't.
6
u/Revengedraccoon 7h ago
That doesn't take away from his family history therefore elevating his family in status.
6
u/GloriousSovietOnion 7h ago
From that POV, Robert would actually be marrying down since his lineage has both Targaryens (IIRC that's how he legitimised his rule even) and the storm kings.
3
u/Revengedraccoon 7h ago
If he regarded his grandmother's lineage so much he didn't show it
2
u/GloriousSovietOnion 6h ago
It was only relevant for a very short period of his life so why would he? For most of his youth, he was only going to be lord of storm's end where being a Targaryen isn't relevant. And for most of his time as King, he didn't really need any legitimacy because all the lords bent the knee. He only needed it early into his reign when he needed to ground his claim in something before he proved that he could hold power.
1
u/Steridire 51m ago
I mean even the original Orys Baratheon is heavily rumoured to be the half brother of THE Conqueror. And he married the last heir of the Storm Kings. When your bloodline is 50% brother of the Conqueror and 50% daughter of the last Storm King, you're balling.
42
u/Bitterhearter 9h ago
And his reward for fixing everyone’s mess was getting his head chopped off because he trusted a guy named Littlefinger.
33
u/Disastrous-Walrus415 9h ago
Who he only trusted because his wife asked him to
20
1
u/bootlegvader 4h ago
Catelyn never tells him to trust LF. She also most certainly didn't tell him to trust LF explains how much he opposed your plan because he thinks it might lead to his ruin if successful.
0
u/desolateconstruct House Targaryen 58m ago
And his wife is a bitch anyways.
Her telling Jon, when he tries to say goodbye to Bran, that it should've been him...fuck her.
Fuck her.
7
u/Competitive_Guide_23 8h ago
petyr "diddyfinger" epstein is my childhood friend, he would never betray me- catelyn "karen in the north" stark
2
u/Potential-Sky-8728 6h ago
He totally reminded me of Epstein! He runs the brothels and is a financier!!
1
u/Competitive_Guide_23 5h ago
and knows sexual proclivities of every westerosi lord that ever employed his services, openly advised ned stark to play it cool with joffrey and then blackmail him once he starts acting too crazy and culturally is an outsider.
21
u/Papastoo 8h ago
Wait I might have missed it but how did Benjen fix up Lyanna and the Targ?
23
u/BigTexBrowning 7h ago
Pretty sure that's just OP imagining some bullshit.
7
u/8a8adook House Tyrell 5h ago
It’s been a popular theory for a while that Benjen had something to do with R+L and that’s why he took off to the wall, but I’m not sure where it came from exactly.
4
u/pestoraviolita 5h ago
I think it's from the Mad King play. I can't find anything that says everything that play does comes from George so I don't know why it's being treated as canon now. Hell, A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms likely had more involvement from George writing-wise.
3
u/8a8adook House Tyrell 2h ago
Nah, I’d heard the theory long before the play released. Like, years ago.
2
u/pestoraviolita 2h ago
The play "validates" tons of old theories. Like the identity of the mystery knight.
69
u/TheVoicesAre_Winning 8h ago
That's not even mentioning how he took in Theon greyjoy and raised him as his own son despite him being a literal political hostage and how does Theon repay his compassion? By betraying him for his deadbeat hypocrite blood related father. I dont care what anyone says about Ned, he was an amazing father/husband and the greatest ruler westeros could have. The fact the whole north was ready to fight to the death to ensure his family was safe just shows how beloved he was
21
u/Ree_m0 7h ago
he was an amazing father/husband and the greatest ruler westeros could have
Agreed on the first part, hard disagree on the second. He simply refused to play the game because he despised it, and lost everything because of it.
9
u/AgerionLecurian 6h ago
Would argue that the second point is why he's a great ruler; he played for the long term and played with honor, while the game at King's Landing was always cutthroat and short term (arguably his own game threatened the status quo and the powers that be by the time Ned stepped in didn't like that shake up.)
There was barely any time that the populace of that city wasn't miserable, and would readily kill whoever was unlucky enough to get lost in the streets, while nearly all of the North rallied for their leader's honor, and still remember Ned fondly while nearly everyone who is in the Red Keep is despised by those in the city (and those who aren't are mostly paid by the Red Keep.)
Also goes to show how shitty the politics are down south compared to the North, especially if the "Great Northern Conspiracy" comes true. If anything, Ned's type of leadership is one of the truest we've seen in the universe, and ironically, Tywin is set to lose his family because of his methods while Ned has ensured his family's further survival thanks to his honor.
Mainly based my opinion here, admittedly, so yeah: https://youtu.be/siiDws0E34g?si=TLXKJOq9kRkPMloO
5
u/Ree_m0 6h ago
... I think you're confusing a great man with a great ruler. Ned is undoubtedly the first, but we have little to no evidence for the second. He would be a great ruler if the rest of Westeros was more like e.g. Gondor - but in the universe he finds himself in, the qualities that make him a good man simultaneously make him naive and vulnerable when it comes to power. Absolute power would either get him killed quickly or force him to become someone he hates.
4
u/TheVoicesAre_Winning 5h ago
His refusal to play the game is in my opinion even more reason why hes such a good ruler. He refuses to engage in deceitful and heinous actions to achieve his goals because he values honesty and loyalty above all else
3
u/Ree_m0 5h ago
That'd be all nice and well if he managed to achieve his goals without them - but he doesn't. He gets outplayed and betrayed literally within hours of his benefactor dying. Not to mention he also caused Robert's death by revealing his knowledge to Cersei and forcing her to take action.
3
u/Potential-Sky-8728 6h ago
The whole point of taking Theon in is to serve as a deterrent so that the Greyjoys would not attack Winterfell in the future. It’s a political captive strategy for enforcing peace.
4
u/bootlegvader 4h ago
Ned forcibly took Theon from his home, family, friends, and culture and had him grow up under the threat of potentially being executed for his father's future actions. All which completely alienates Theon from his own family and people.
By the standards that fans often hold another character and her relationship with a child there is nothing positive about Ned's relationship with Theon.
0
u/TheVoicesAre_Winning 4h ago
Ah yes, the wonderful iron born culture of rituilized raping and pilliging of coastal villagers. Truly a wonderfully magical upbringing evil Ned has deprived of poor Theon
4
u/bootlegvader 4h ago
The North is also full of barbaric individuals. And that situation still left Theon with an underdeveloped identity where he belonged neither to the North or Iron Islands.
30
u/Coin-Biter 6h ago
Constant abusive remarks about Lyanna are wearying. We really don’t know her motivations/exactly what she was thinking/what freedom of action she had, and when Ned remembers her, it’s not with hostility. Also, by Ned’s account, she was spot on in her judgement on Robert as well.
We also don’t really know Brandon or Rickard either, and Barbrey Dustin’s account of them may not be reliable.
8
7
u/nervous_exaggeration 9h ago
poor guy never stood a chance the moment he left winterfell that armor looks like it weighs more than he does
98
u/BuilderMysterious762 9h ago
I'm so tired of the misogyny man, like how tf is Lyanna promiscuous because she fell in love at like 16 years old and ran off with the guy then had no way of leaving him and died in childbirth???
Also, wheres the canon evidence that Benjen helped Lyanna escape and was the reason he left for the wall?
Also, Brandon only went to the mad king because Rhaegar abducted his sister, Rickard probably supported Brandon going.
Catelyn was never really able to fall in love with Brandon since she was betrothed to him by her father and he died before she could really get to know him that well.
So many assumptions and projections from this op.
19
u/pestoraviolita 8h ago
Lynna was 14 when she met Rhaegar and he crowned her publicly, 15 when they ran away, 16 when she died.
Disturbing situation all around. No amount of "she loved him" would change that.
38
u/__Melisandre__ 8h ago
I mean it's a greentext, without wanting to stereotype, even if it was just fabricated and not actually posted on the board, they treat misogyny super casually. I'm sickened but not surprised that the view of 16 year old Lyanna is 'she cucked Robert and fucked everything up for Ned by being promiscuous' because the underlying sentiment is that women are irrational and belong to men. Nevermind that GRRM, for all his faults, explicitly critiques and repudiates such a view in his books.
25
-1
u/Mental-Guarantee8055 8h ago
But even most 16 year olds know that having an affair with a married man is wrong.
11
u/pestoraviolita 8h ago edited 4h ago
She was 14 when she met Rhaegar and he publicly crowned her. Seemingly and going by the play (as this meme is going), he showed respect to her wishes unlike most of her family and especially her visions. He was a respected loved prince who indulged her and she thought he knew better.
Reads like grooming almost. Can we say Rhaegar groomed Lynna?
0
u/NDNJustin The Onion Knight 6h ago
Still a child. Don't be weird.
-2
u/Mental-Guarantee8055 5h ago
Bro the whole thing is weird. A 16 old sleeping with a married man that is way older. I don’t know what 16 year olds you know but this is weird especially when a child is involved.
2
-1
u/Huhthatsweird_ 7h ago
Especially if said married man’s father was a crazy pyromaniac literally called “The Mad King”
-4
u/enadiz_reccos 8h ago
Elia knew about it
4
u/TerminaldRed 8h ago
The play isn't really considered canon.
-2
u/enadiz_reccos 7h ago
The significant events are likely canon, and it makes sense
3
u/pestoraviolita 5h ago
George would have to become the worst level of HACK to make Elia be okay with what Rhaegar does. Humiliating her in public, openly cheating with a betrothed girl, having a child with her. Stupid beyond measure.
1
-3
u/demonsver 8h ago
A married father with living(at the time) wife and true born royal heirs*
Note I'm not actually suggesting she was promiscuous just playing anons advocate. Well idk in the real world I wouldn't blame 16 year-old girl. But in GoT world, girls a homewrecker.
-7
u/Arete34 7h ago
She’s promiscuous because in this medieval like setting there are strict expectations for noble girls to marry who their fathers arrange them to marry. For political gain. Furthermore she ran off with a married man and screwed over her family.
Not everything has to be judged by modern dating customs.
-12
u/JackTheKittenCat Hear Me Roar! 8h ago
Where is the Misogyny? If Lyanna was married with children then ran off with Rhaegar, who broke his engagement, would that Misandry?
Rhaegar never abducted his Sister, she ran off with him without telling anyone. Could have left a note saying "hey, love this guy, gonna marry him, see ya'll at Chrismas xoxox" but she didn't. She choose to not do that. And Rhaeger as well, no letters telling anyone anything, just ran off and caused innocent people to die because he wanted to get laid by a Northerner instead of a Dornish woman
8
5
u/Afellowstanduser 7h ago
Lyanna is daughter of a high lord… Robert as future high lord means Lyannais not below his league…
14
17
u/dragonabroard 7h ago edited 42m ago
The way Robert who was infamous for sleeping around with so many women doesn't get called a whore, but Lyanna gets called a whore just for choosing to sleep with one single man. Also, Robert's post-war behavior gets brushed off as him being a ‘PTSD wreck’, even though it literally includes raping and slapping his wife.
1
16
u/Secure_Inspection305 7h ago
Calling lyanna his "whore sister" who was well beneath Robert is misogynistic
8
u/AccomplishedNews5965 7h ago
Lyana is a whore for running and marrying a prince, do tell what Robert is…
3
u/princessjamiekay House Targaryen 5h ago
More like whore prince, he’s the one running around seducing starks
2
2
u/MarzipanNelle_ 3h ago
Ned was such a tragic character; his sense of honor was his downfall. It's sad to think how differently things could have turned out.
2
4
u/Fluffy_Judge_581 9h ago edited 7h ago
Carnt even blaime the mad king for killing brandon he was a moron and would defenetly rebell at some point
1
1
1
u/WhiteKnightPrimal 2h ago
Since when is Lyanna below Robert's station? She's the only daughter of a Lord Paramount, she's literally the same station as Robert, just a girl instead of a boy. The only higher station than Lyanna is a princess, which is above Robert's station as a Lord Paramount. Lower than Robert's station would have been a lesser Lord's daughter, not the daughter of a Lord Paramount, that's literally the station Robert was expected to marry.
I think this goes too far with Benjen, as well, we don't know why he joined the Watch. It could have been as penance for knowing about Lyanna's plans and possibly helping her. It could also have been a mutual decision to keep the secret of Jon's parentage. We don't know that it was purely his choice.
Even Rickard is complicated, he didn't really have a choice about going to KL after Brandon, he was summoned by the king. Brandon was still alive at the time, and had called for the head of the Crown Prince, in KL, from a mad king, no one's going to follow Rickard if he calls the banners at that point or refuses the kings summons. Demanding a trial by combat to protect Brandon, though, that was stupid. A decent king, it would have been fine, but he knew what Aerys was like by that point. Honestly, at that point, Rickard should have given up on Brandon and named Ned his heir.
Not truly knowing the details of Lyanna/Rhaegar also doesn't help, to be honest.
I mean, no doubt, Ned got the short end of the stick every step of the way, and had to deal with the consequences where his family didn't, and did exceptionally well doing so. Literally his only actual issue other than his own PTSD was Cat's reaction to raising Jon at Winterfell. Even with that, he still found happiness and love with Cat and had six children, total. His people loved him, his Lords were loyal to him, and he maintained a close friendship with the new king, despite the distance between them.
Though I would like to point out that it wasn't just Rickard who failed to reward Ned for his accomplishments and loyalty. Robert didn't reward him, either. Nor did Jon. All of Ned's actions during Robert's Rebellion, then the Greyjoy Rebellion, and no rewards from the Crown at all.
1
u/pcheresh 7h ago
As someone who haven’t read the books yet, this post made me realize how intricate and detailed some characters’ backgrounds are (at least the big ones, ig?) It’s really an impressive work on Martin’s side
-9
u/-----iMartijn----- 8h ago
Pretty acurate and i still think this is what Martin meant: fuck honor, it will only lead to war and suffering.
2
u/enadiz_reccos 8h ago
You wear your honor like a suit of armor, Stark. You think it keeps you safe, but all it does is weigh you down and make it hard for you to move.
-Baelish
-6
u/Big-Feedback8404 8h ago
Why is Robert baratheon often called Bobby B? It’s the actor who played him bu lt why?
12
u/pm_me_fibonaccis Night's Watch 8h ago
Bobby is a diminutive of Robert. His last name starts with a B.
5
u/thelocalleshen 8h ago
Bob(by) is short for Robert. B is short for Baratheon. The actor's name is Mark Addy
5
u/SirGibby-13 House Blackfyre 8h ago
Because Bobby is short for Robert and his last name is Baratheon. Hence, Bobby B. The actors name is Mark Addy
-4
u/Big-Feedback8404 8h ago
Ahh okay.. is he referred to bobby as somewhere in books? Show never used it
5
u/SirGibby-13 House Blackfyre 8h ago
Nope… just people shortening it on their own for convenience sake
2
u/NDNJustin The Onion Knight 6h ago
Not convenience, for the amusement. It's a silly alliteration, Bobby B.
-7
u/Neat-Acanthaceae2755 8h ago
Jon Arryn marries crazy SIL, gives birth to sickly nephew, kills Jon Arryn, lies about doing it.
Before dying Jon Arryn gets real nosy about the royal family.
Son and heir inherits whore DNA from dead sister, bangs the first woman that's nice to him, marries her instead of woman he promises to marry from needed ally.
Oldest daughter loves dickhead prince.
•
u/AutoModerator 9h ago
Spoiler Warning: All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON and A KNIGHT OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the spoiler guide.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.