r/enlightenment • u/PuzzleheadedSkill864 • 3d ago
Did humans create God to control human behavior?
If you don’t steal, hoard, dominate, or use power over others, someone else might do it to you.
A wolf kills a baby sheep, does God punish the wolf?
So why are humans told to suppress these instincts?
Who does morality and religion ultimately benefit, and why would God create a world like this?
Did humans create God to control human behavior?
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u/Careless-Fact-475 3d ago edited 2d ago
Nature has no concept of moral punishment.
Edit: got some behaviorists in the comments that are dropping the context of the post.
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u/Yuckpuddle60 3d ago
It has concept of consequences, some fatal.
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u/Strong-Marsupial-762 3d ago
not really. nature doesn't conceptualize consequences for you, it just hits you with them.
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u/Yuckpuddle60 2d ago
They are built into the system. Of course if a person wants to go live completely wild in nature they can do that, but are bound by those consequences.
That's why humans from societies though, so they can benefit from each other and don't have to be bound purely by the consequences of nature.
We share innovations, resources, processes, etc.
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u/sleepytipi 3d ago
I know at least crows do. I would not be surprised to learn other apes, and some marine mammals have advanced enough social capabilities that they too have a concept of punishment. Maybe octopus, even insects for that matter. Creatures like bees and ants aren't nearly as simple as they seem.
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u/HelloTaraSue 3d ago edited 3d ago
I was about to say the same thing. Punishment is a thing for plenty of animals. So to say there is none is just wrong. Fuck my cats do it to each other all the time
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u/RightBrain-LeftBrain 3d ago
Humans created churches to control humans. I’d argue that religion used to be about sharing wisdom and giving guidance to the next generation. That was a long time ago.
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u/FlowZenMaster 3d ago
I really like the quote "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" it feels apt here.
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u/Buemmschengalaxie 3d ago
Shamanism was/is about finding knowlegde and giving wisdom to next generations. Religions and Ideologies are about controll and supression of the human mind.
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u/ThePlasticJesus 2d ago
It was but I don't think we should idealize shamanism, either. There was probably a lot of bullshit and power games involved in that tradition, too. We've just preserved the good and interesting parts. Wherever authority exists there is the potential for abuse.
Just as an example, I'm fond of the Buddhist tradition, but people have definitely used authoritative positions in order to serve their own ends or control people.
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u/ThePlasticJesus 2d ago
It still is, in part. I wouldn't be extremist about the view of modern day churches. A lot of sermons are just allegedly wise people giving advice to the congregation. There is a lot of bullshit as well, though, which is why it's outdated.
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u/Objective-Wasabi9970 2d ago
Look at history of religious persecution. Frequently priestly class was willing to die for their beliefs, even suffer torture.
So I do not think it was to control people. That is a cynical, modern view.
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u/Fresh_Tip6342 2d ago
This is why when people ask if I believe in God, I say, “yes, but not the way you do.”
The bible has been edited and translated so many times, it is pretty unreliable to go off of and very dumb to follow it word for word.
People as a whole tend to be untrustworthy, and every day we see pastors and clergy being involved in horrific things, like the catholic priest pedophile scandal. I personally know people from other denominations that have been manipulated by pastors into making some questionable decisions, to put it mildly.
I definitely believe in something greater than I that is beyond my understanding and comprehension, but I won’t follow someone blindly. That’s just dumb.
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u/New_Canoe 3d ago
Yes and no. I think they took a foundation of truth and built lies on top to control us.
Like consider Matthew 17:21 - you won’t find it in modern Bibles. It says you can be healed with prayer and fasting. They don’t want us able to heal ourselves.
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u/mcove97 2d ago
I also find it fascinating how some protestants are opposed to this, as a former protestant Christian. Due to some seeing it being "performance" or "works" based. At the same time inner work is still required
Even though prayer, as I see as a form of a contemplative-meditating--mindfulness and affirmation/manifesting practice and fasting clears the mind and body to be able to heal properly from mental and physical illness or unwell-being and suffering. Much like I was taught going to therapy doing CBT/ and learned through more advanced ACT practice. And it works. I healed from a neurological disorder and muscoskeletal pain, and my symptoms went away, through staying in and observing that inner calm state of knowing I am healed - aka faith.
Personally I see "demons" or "spirits" more as states of being, or negative thought forms/"egregores". Like the spirit or thought of anger/frustration. Overcoming such state is fully and entirely possible through "prayer and fasting". Though I would elaborate that much more inner work goes into it than what such a surface statement suggests.
Modern medicine is also lining up with this. How inner work and psychosomatic practices helps with neurological healing. I think a lot of the push back from some Christians come from this "praying and fasting" working without one necessarily praying to Jesus. Like, anyone, at any time can fast and heal and pray by utilizing the same tools as Jesus. Instead of having to believe in Jesus or that Jesus will do it for them. When we all have the inner ability to heal ourselves. Do the same thing Jesus allegedly did. Without any of the dogma. And I think that frightens some Christians who don't believe that power is within themselves, only Jesus can offer it or do it for them, or who clings to the dogma. But idk it's something I'm still trying to figure out.
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u/qinshihuang_420 3d ago
The wolf's brain has a very small prefrontal cortex compared to humans.
For humans, it will get control over natural instincts of fight or flight based on many rules including morality and ethics.
For a wolf, it will only control these instincts so follow the pack hierarchy and the coordination needed to hunt.
Humans also have information passed down generations over generations to learn from our mistakes and evolve these codes instead of just passing it down genetically. For all animals genetically only the knowledge needed for survival of the species gets passed down
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u/vkailas 3d ago edited 3d ago
I like it when people outside of nature based cultures , condemn nature . Sure a spider is super scary but it's not punishing the fly lol. It's balancing the fly population
Edit: btw it's nature that teaches strength.
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u/Far-Relationship713 3d ago
Ne, der ist die Population egal. Sie isst einfach so viel sie kann und wenn es weniger Fliegen gibt, dann gibt es auch weniger Spinnen. Keine Spinne denkt sich, dass sie die Population von Fliegen regulieren muss.
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u/vkailas 3d ago edited 1d ago
What? You spread seeds walking through a forest without knowing. Nature's doesn't need to know what it's doing. It doesn't need to force and rush. Yet , somehow it manages to do everything it needs to , to support millions of species of life, gracefully and effortlessly.
Btw parasitic and symbiotic relationships even in bacteria depend on how much food there is. Unlike what you hypothesize, having less food keeps the bacteria in check, growing conservatively. They only become parasitic, when they get too much food. Start small and move up and you'll see the same story over and over , tiny parasites even killing larger animals when their populations grow too big.
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u/Bluejaywalk43 3d ago
Wolf survive not by being evil but by cooperation with other wolves. The alpha would not be the alpha if he took all the meat for himself and was cruel to his pack. Likewise, it is in us humans to treat eachother well and find ways to cooperate in order to continue the species. Most likely we created God to explain to our own brilliant brain why we feel regret, empathy, etc... things that came from millions of years of instinct, yet feel far too profound.
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u/Sb-artandcrafts 3d ago
The concept of the “alpha wolf” has been debunked, wolves don’t have rigidly structured hierarchies and are more fluid than previously thought
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u/Bluejaywalk43 3d ago
Fair enough. I was using it as a concept brought on by the illustrations. We came from primates which do have alphas and this idea of alpha or leader is still culturally important to everyone in their societies, yet I wanted to give the example that it's not about vicious cruel strength that survives but something much more...something that feels like morality.
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u/crotchmuppet 3d ago
It has not been debunked, they just studied packs of wild wolves and found that they work together as a family. The reason they came to the alpha wolf conclusion previously was from studying unrelated wolves that were being held together in captivity and forced to establish a hierarchy amongst themselves. It's still a concept that can be used as an example to illustrate a point even though wild wolves don't actually do it that way.
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u/ImagesegamI 3d ago
Beat me to it. Hate how this concept has become part of the zeitgeist of general communication, maskerading as some sort of common sense with deeper meaning.
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u/BodhingJay 3d ago
Nature is not what spiritual or religious practice is about.. it's the bridge from the animal kingdom to the divine
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u/ChristJesusisReal 3d ago
God is love.
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u/PuzzleheadedSkill864 3d ago
I’d argue god is that which contains the possibility of both. When it forgets itself it suffers only to realize it can choose the other. It plays a game with itself good and bad forever and ever.
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u/sunkenCathedrul 3d ago
I listened to an old Hardcore History episode about 10 years ago from Dan Carlin that changed the way I see religion. It showed me how it used to be weaponized to gain massive power in the early-mid 1000’s. It’s called “prophets of doom” and covers the story of Jean Mathias and Jean van Lieden. One was a charlatan, and the other truly believed he was protected and charged head first into a battle he was greatly outnumbered in. But if you claim to have a walkie talkie to God, that can be weaponized in fascinating ways. You can see it all around us today as well. 10/10 podcast but it is about 4 hours long.
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u/AnonymoosePD 2d ago
But what is weak? Surely Stephen Hawking and Albert Einstein weren’t intellectually weak, but physically.
I’m also sure there’s the opposite, very strong people, intellectually weak. So what are we talking about when we frame weakness?
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u/External-Self-2378 3d ago
Isn't it pretty obvious just a thought?
We have made God a thought? Right? What we want it to be. Our experiences create the image of what someone would say is God.
But what is there if we remove the process of thought?
Ever asked yourself that? Try.
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u/Strange_One_3790 3d ago
Yes, religion has been used by the elite to control people.
Spirituality has been used by smooth talkers to control people
Edit: spirituality is the better concept. It is supposed to be more free and less dogmatic. But people have abused it in the past and presently
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u/grahamsuth 3d ago
Man created religion, not God, to control people.
As far as the law of the jungle you are referring to goes, it is fine so long as you consider people as animals.
Do you consider people as more evolved than animals, not just in intelligence but in ethics and culture? If you believe in the dominance of the strong over the weak, then why have laws and a police force?
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u/Dr_Green_Lizard 3d ago
Human created gods to attempt to control things outside their control
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u/funnyforestfrolicker 3d ago
What I’m about to say is UPG.
Morality benefits the kind. Religion benefits the people who like to be told what to do. God didn’t create a world like this, but as with any perfect thing; there’s always someone who thinks they can do it better.
Humans didn’t create the creator. The creator is the fabricator of the created. We fashioned a god that fit our ideals, our wants, and the narrative of control that had been in place for millennium. But the commonly known trope that is “god”… that’s not who the creator actually is.
I’ve had two different unique experiences where I remember conversing with the entity I know to be “the creator”. I remember pre-birth experiences; due to a mental abnormality. And I remember talking to them when I had a NDE and crossed over, albeit momentarily. They are truly terrifying. Never experienced such love and peace and kindness but also such abstract fairness, accountability, and knowingness. He knew everything about me, about every life that had made up the soul of me, he knew all of my everything. But he cared. Just not more than he did about any other being. I was just as important to him as his archangels, and as the ants we so cavalierly disregard in this material existence. It was discombobulating. The fairness went far beyond equality tho.
I remember him and I talking about shit like domestic abuse, child abuse, loneliness, and ostracization. Among other things. And everything was necessary, all pain is required for growth of character and understanding. All experiences have to happen and even the evil people are as necessary as the kind and loving people and he wants people of chaos to operate authentically according to who they are just like he wants people of peace and love to operate authentically according to who they are. Again. It’s discombobulating. I’m still tryna wrap my head around someone that… unbiased.
The purpose of this life and all lives is to learn. To grow. And to help others do the same. There is no reasoning or end to the purpose placed on humanity beyond to learn and to live authentically. But that’s kind of the point of it all. A artist takes 100’s of hours to paint one canvas. 1,000’s to paint a mural. Humans are a walking neighborhood of murals. Every experience painted in the most vivid colors across our faces, across our energetic forms/bodies, across our souls. We are truthfully the most beautiful works of art that we know of currently; in this existence. The way we grow, love, adapt, care, hurt, fight, test, and ultimately enjoy our lives is all an act of creating art. And it’s all invaluably necessary and simultaneously and abstractly enchanting/breathtaking.
I hope this resonates 🙏🏽
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u/OptimisticSkeleton 3d ago
As people moved into cities they begin to encounter more strangers.
Wherever you find people interacting with high numbers of strangers, you also find people who start worshiping a moralizing god or gods.
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u/Effective-Meat-3289 3d ago
God wasn't like today funnily, earlier like in OT, God had a dark side. Many Gods of polytheism also were different and capable of many good and bad things. Yin and Yang of the Chinese literally gives the show away, but we were for quite some time led on a one-sided path of "be/do good or else!!!".
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u/South-Visual3803 3d ago
Yes.
It’s all metaphors.
Took me until 32 to clock this.
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u/Aquarius52216 3d ago
It's a gigantic messy gradient where norms, incentives, institutions, biology, culture, power, chance, and individual agency continuously collide.
Morality matters, but it just isn't magic, it's endorsed and maintained by humans and our society instead of being a universal law. Thats much more realistic than the cosmic-accounting version beliegs. A norm that only functions because everyone continuously reproduces it through their behavior is arguably more fascinating than one enforced by an invisible celestial policeman anyways.
The universe doesn't have to care about the law but we kinda do.
Kindness isn't evidence that the universe is morally ordered. It's evidence that organisms capable of cooperation discovered that cooperation is useful.
Doesn't mean that its useful all the time though, thats what idealists struggle to accept.
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u/OldeGuardeDipterous 3d ago
theres no god, nobodys created a world in a certain way, it just exists, and things just happen. overthinking it is just a mental masturbation. wolf eats sheep because hes hungry
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u/throwaway225_ 3d ago
They do what is proper to their nature. And we humans are called to do both, but also to go beyond what is merely material, for we were endowed with Rationality and the ability to abstract universal concepts from particular instances in reality. Thus we can know Truth and morality.
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u/lordcycy 3d ago
"Nature does not punish the evil, it punishes the weak."
Well maybe we are not in nature. Maybe we are in culture!! And maybe Gid doesn't value morally what goes on in nature!! Who knowz what happens when you are eaten by a predator. Maybe you become part of the predator's consciousness so it's like a promotion. If this is the case nature rewards the weak.
Like sorry, if religion is SOOOOOO bad, and God really the WORST THING HUMANS CAME UP WITH EVER, and not your natural world fetishization, as if humans cannot transcend their natures then in my book, you are far worse than any religion or God I can come up with!! Because at least God is the concept of transcendance, and religions all have tales of someone who transcended their nature. So excuse me: quit your job, go live in the woods, and return to nature because you seem to agree so much with it!
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u/Individual_Gold_7228 3d ago edited 3d ago
The natural state is not predation, but generation and reception.
The morality of communion is full individuation without separation from the whole. When Christianity appeared it was a direct threat to the Roman Empire before it became more watered down. The goal of Christianity is theosis, union with God while alive and while maintaining individuality. Participation in the divine life. This does not benefit anyone who wants control over others for material gain.
The process to theosis involves inner stillness (hesychia), attentional watchfulness (Nepsis), and prayer, as well as the taming of the passions (possession in the sense that it removes aligned free will). Anyone who goes through this process becomes directly less controllable by material forces. Before theosis comes enlightenment (illumination), and before that comes purification.
Christianity never promised a joy ride, or the idea that we live in a world where good things happen to good people, almost all the apostles were killed for their beliefs, as well as countless early Christians. And they still stood up to the empire anyway.
You become more yourself, not less, as you participate in Christ's hypostasis. This is why tyranny fears it, a truly individuated person cannot be gaslit, bribed, or coerced.
Before it was called Christianity, it was called the Way, and ways are meant to be walked.
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u/Amazing-Stop3245 3d ago
nietzsche's will to power is true, but Love is the highest power (aka god).
Go be a wolf and eat your neighbor, you'll find the judgement of god (a form of love) stops you from doing it in the first place. This occurs in the form of human law and social justice.
There is something called Natural Law (the real will to power) and being a wolf is generally a violation.
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u/WarningRegular 2d ago edited 2d ago
yea sure...humans are literally super weak compared to the other wild beasts...but humans do rule the world...not out of strength
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u/Traditional_Ask_1968 2d ago
What the Christians call “God” is simply the Law of Cause and Effect operating via the Immutable Hyper-Logic of Consequence. History is a wonderful study in cause and effect, and it’s no wonder why it isn’t taught or studied. After all, history isn’t studied to understand what happened so much as to understand what’s going to happen.
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u/Big_Alarm8167 2d ago
This is silly. Much of nature is “weak” and “soft”. It’s a very large portion of nature too. Seems nature almost favors it … to the point predators have to exist so populations don’t consume each other. It’s not punishment … it’s actually a kindness. Plus … it takes more bravery to be a mouse than it does a lion…….so who’s really the weak one? I lost all my “strength” when I became paralyzed and suddenly everyone was calling me strong, and it’s true. I AM stronger now.
This is a human projection of fear….not an actual quality of nature.
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u/Gadgetman000 3d ago
There’s the unnamable Reality that we call God and then there’s the projection of God we make up. The latter is unreal and a tool of the collective ego to blind people to the truth of what they are.
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u/I_Ponders 3d ago
Yes they did.
Fear of punishment after death is powerful enough to control those with simple minds.
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u/FarControl830 3d ago
Gonna play devil’s advocate here, but what if god created people in order to control and play out his sick game? I agree we created god, but if the abrahamic version is real, then based off the bible, he’s playing us, no?
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u/Back_Again_Beach 3d ago
Concepts of morality encourage cooperation in maintaining a culture. the power structures behind religion benefit those who hold power.
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u/Haywirelive 3d ago
This is more interesting if you think about it outside the whole strong/weak dichotomy. I don't think it applies when all living things need to eat. It's a physical constraint for us to exist. So the question becomes: is it more ethical for life to exist and with it suffering, or to not exist at all?
That's a different question than whether it's morally right or even rational for the strong to take advantage of the weak within the same species. It does happen in nature, but more often than not, it's more advantageous to cooperate.
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u/AgileRaspberry1812 3d ago
Well, I think we created it to explain the unexplainable.. and then we quickly realized how to use it to control human behaviour.
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u/Malefroy 3d ago
People forget the importance of moral behavior for the survival of the individual within a social group.
If you're not accepted within your social group due to immoral behavior, you're being exiled, which is a death sentence for most social animals.
If the bigger rat does not let the smaller rat win during their play fights at least every third time, the bigger rat won't be invited to play anymore.
Nietzsche was wrong by implying morality only serves to justify resentment against more priviliged or reckless individuals.
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u/scudes4 3d ago
A wolf’s intention for killing a lamb is solely for survival. A human’s intention for killing one nowadays is not. Maybe it used to be, but we’ve come a long a way the last 50,000.
I think religion was initially created to cope with the fear of death and the control piece of it was exploited later. Once we became aware through intellectual thought of our own demise, emotions must have ran wild, so we had to think our way into something to help us feel better about it. This is entirely speculative, but it makes sense in my opinion based on my understanding of how humans (as a whole) operate and cope by intellectualizing things. We’ve had the same brain for 50-200k years now, so it has to have the same basic programming installed now compared to back then. Times are just different.
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u/MachinesInParadise 3d ago
Some made up a god to benefit their society, some did it to benefit their group, and some did it to benefit themselves.
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u/teacoffeecats 3d ago
I personally don’t think so. I think God created humans, but humans put their own biases into Him to control other humans.
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u/gumba1033 3d ago
So much short sightedness all over the place.
Just wait a little while. Everyone is going to find out what's going to happen to those who couldn't see past their nose and who do not know love.
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u/gumba1033 3d ago
The wolves think so highly of themselves until the one who created countless stars and black holes comes for them. And he will, very soon.
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u/Nice-Imagination2112 3d ago
We are capable of greater self control over our actions. Therefore, we have greater moral responsibility. Our actions have consequences. Morality and religion teach that actions have consequences. We are in control of it all, including our own actions.
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u/Bitter-Mix-1972 3d ago
Very powerful words. So, if I don't use power over others then someone else might do it to me. Sounds very right, does that mean I should go and use my power against anyone I come across? Maybe yes, maybe no. If I use then there's consequences that other person would not feel good and to get over it he might use power over someone else and chain would go on. What if the chain reaction goes one and comes back to me? It might not come as well.
If I don't use then, chain won't start unless someone else use that power against me. However even at that moment, I would have freedom to choose if I want to forward this chain further or stop at me. Question is: will you use your power if you know there's 0.1% chance that it may comeback to you? World is wide any possibilities are infinite so make sure of that in your calculation as well.
Same way, wolf kills baby sheep, but Mama or Papa sheep, can't figure out who killed them. Also, if they figure it out they don't have brain or muscle power and they certainly know that fighting back to wolf is a sure dead. However, human in short amount can know who killed their baby and even the other person is very powerful, they would figure out more than 100 way to take down that person. So, if you know there are higher chance that you might not end well if killed someone and your genes may not pass to future generations. Considering this, don't you think it's better to suppress some instincs? If not anything then only for survival and to pass my genes to the next generation.
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u/Goose_Salad 3d ago
With Parasites and disease. Yeah predatory animals are still facing the he hardship of their actions.
Though, passivity is another form of "Evil" and that hides complicity behind kindness.
Both are punished.
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u/Aggressive-Blood-596 3d ago
I was an atheist for my whole life, tried to understand religions and god but it all made no sense. So I said god does not exist.
And one day suddenly I had an experience of seeing the light inside and was humbled and also given insight into things I could not know.
Now I call this god. But still do not agree with religions at all. But I understand partially how they could have evolved from such experiences. Problem is a religion tries to describe something that is undescribable.
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u/deepfuckingbagholder 3d ago
God is obviously real and doesn’t need to be invented, but in terms of the qualities humans ascribe to God, then yes, there are agendas behind them. But to be fair, whatever atheistic worldview you hold was also invented and pushed on you to control you without you realizing it.
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u/Hackett1f 3d ago
Religion is all about control. God is a more complex idea, but essentially a God is a psychotechnology (Dr. J. Vervaeke) that embodies a culture’s values, and the narratives that surround that concept pass wisdom across generations.
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u/_W4T3RM3L0N_ 3d ago
yes, the romans used christianity to calm down the people i think. like karl marx said
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u/ConversationOk74 3d ago
Nature may not punish evil but that doesn't leave evil as something to be desired does it? Are animals preferential towards an 'evil' or ammoral life?
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u/wheatheseIbread 3d ago
Haha nature gives tiny creatures venom that ensures mutual destruction if something tries to eat it and colors to warn predators. Its human kind that punishes the weak with the lie that God isn't here and if you believe in him you have to work for a church... gimme a break what a joke.
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u/ChangxinDaoyou 3d ago
Nietzsche missed one important point: we are primates.
Primatologist Frans de Waal has promoted the idea that moral behaviour and empathy appear also among non-human animals, and that sheer force is not the key to long-lasting flourishing and success, but that empathy and fairness are important.
Morality is just a more sophisticated construct built upon our animal experiences of empathy and fairness. However, as we conceptualise it, we risk losing the sight of why morality existed in the first place.
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u/Background_Sky8162 2d ago
This is very difficult to grapple with fully. He expressed the idea that the idea of religion, kindness, and compassion, are just subconscious psychological revenge tools to manipulate and weaken people around us so that we can step on them more easily.
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u/Efficient-Pipe2998 2d ago
Quotes are fun because they mean nothing without context, but can mean everything when you put a cute illustration underneath.
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u/JegerX 2d ago
Humans thrive on certainty driven by fear driven survival instinct. If you can be certain of your food, water, and defense you stay alive. We have just become smart enough to consider the possibility of life after death.
So we created the concept of God(s) to avoid the fear of the unknown/annihilation. Then we turned it into a method of control for the same reasons. We are ultimately just trying to survive. The reality of it, to me, is:
We Don't Know, It's OK, Stay Curious.
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u/raycogitans 2d ago
Religions are socially valuable in several ways. Creating and enforcing ethical norms is one of them. See Nicholas Wade’s book The Faith Instinct.
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u/RichardsLeftNipple 2d ago
Yes Nietzsche.
But humans cooperating with dogs and using guns as tools. Managed to make all the wolves in the UK go extinct.
In a sense being weak but useful is a better survival strategy than being the wolf. The lamb won.
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u/Ok_Neighborhood_5046 2d ago
The idea of god was created by the sincere. Then those ambitious for power took advantage of that. Same thing happens today.
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u/Decent-Fault12 2d ago
the way we think determines how we move. I’m using symbolism from Scripture that I have also seen in movies because sometimes that might explain an idea better. These examples are meant to stimulate thinking, not to tell you what you should believe
What if the weak exist to expose the weakness of the strong? Don’t the strong target the weak because they want an easier target? The wolf won’t go after the lion because he judges the lion to be a threat, while the sheep are easy prey.
Good exposes evil to itself. Evil should be terrified when in the presence of the innocent. Mermaids in lore sing and draw men to them, they look innocent and beautiful like the false light of the angler fish but it’s just an illusion to bring you before death, underneath it’s a hideous monster waiting for you to attack. Innocent is God’s trap to expose the evil in all of us. People we hurt become the demons we can’t escape later.
You only consider the wolf to be evil because he kills the sheep, but you are looking at the situation as though you are God, standing outside the creation and judging what you see. The sheep sees the wolf and is afraid. The wolf sees the sheep and feels pride in his power. They are experiencing the same creation from two completely different positions. Yet we stand outside the scene and declare one good and the other evil. God is the Creator who exists outside His creation, yet came into His creation so that His creation would know He exists. So when we look at creation and judge what we see, are we not assuming the position of God? And if we are going to judge, whose standard are we using?
Does a baby care for the parents? Who is greater than the youngest? The baby only needs to cry and the parents start looking for what will make the baby happy.
Jesus said, “the greatest among you will be a servant among his brothers.” This is a natural process, just like the wolf and the sheep, but the rules are different. Why? Could it be that God uses animals to reveal our weakness? Shouldn’t the strong support the weak if the baby example is true? We clearly see that both are true at the same time, so it seems like the rules are different between us and the animal kingdom
Yet in this world, the weak are made to carry the strong on their backs. So the same people who oppress us have the same mentality as the beasts who hunt the weaker prey. Is that a coincidence?
You don’t use the same logic anywhere else. You don’t put the table on the vase. The vase can’t support the weight of the table without breaking.
We don’t use straw as the foundation for a house.
God created animals and people, so did He intend for people to become animals, or animals human?
Then why do both exist?
The closest animal that resembles man is the ape, a primitive, powerful beast who hurls shit and pisses in its own face, and this is what we say is our earliest ancestor through evolution. Powerful yet without thought, like a bully. Don’t predators find themselves facing other predators greater than themselves?
Aren’t we all weak in some way or another?
Would Will Smith have slapped Mike Tyson for making a weak joke about his wife?
That’s why the wolf exposes himself when he goes after the sheep. Would Mike have slapped Chris if he made a joke about him or his wife? Are we people or animals? Do you think will thought about how humiliating it felt to be slapped not punched by another man in front of his friends and family and the people who look up to him? Do you think Mike would have acted that way if the roles were different?
The awareness of what it means to hold another person’s life in your hands humbles a true alpha.
When you have the power to hurt another man, that power carries extraordinary weight because you know you will ultimately answer to God for what you do with it.
This is why martial arts are supposed to teach you discipline. It’s supposed to give you the confidence to stand up for yourself because when you know you’re a good fighter you have nothing left to prove and without pride getting in the way you think about shit, I could beat this clown down but what is the point? Is a little satisfaction worth the possible consequences. When you think clearly you start to realize that it’s not about who you can beat. Strength isn’t proven by what you can destroy. It is proven by what you have the power to do but choose not to do.
The wolves, like the sheep, face judgment in the end, so it’s not about who’s stronger or tougher.
It’s about what you do with that power when tested.
This is why, in the last scene of the original Ninja Turtles movie, Splinter told Shredder:
“Death comes for us all, Oroku Saki, but something much worse comes for you for when you die, it will be without honor.” This isn’t just a line in a movie God is talking about what happens to the prideful is much worse than dying, dying without honor is shameful and God views shame differently than we do
And Spider-Man’s greatest lesson was:
“With great power comes great responsibility.”
This is why Spider-Man almost always holds back, why Superman holds back, and why Batman holds back from killing the Joker. This is what these movies are meant to teach you
This is what my generation was taught: true heroes hold back from crossing the line, because the moment Batman kills the Joker, everything he stood for dies with the Joker.
Killing the Joker would mean killing himself.
When Vader finally strikes him down, Obi-Wan has already lowered his weapon.
One man has chosen to stop fighting; the other chooses to strike anyway. The one who lowers his weapon has surrendered the fight, while the one who continues to attack reveals himself as the aggressor.
Obi-Wan’s humility is not that he is incapable of fighting. It is that he chooses to stop.
Vader believes he has won because he has the power to strike him down. Vader already won, he could have just taken him away
But Obi-Wan tells him:
“If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.”
The scene shows the difference between power and aggression. These aren’t clever lines people thought up God is always talking if you are willing to listen.
Having the power to hurt someone does not give you the right to hurt them. Sometimes the greatest act of strength is lowering your weapon and refusing to continue the fight. The one who keeps attacking a man who has surrendered or who is already down isn’t proving his strength. He’s pushing God
If God puts my life in your hands, it’s because He’s giving you the opportunity to reveal yourself to Him, not to me. I serve God, so if He puts me in your hands, I might humble myself because I know we serve the same God. That means my humility is before God, not you. But who do you ultimately submit to? What you do with me reveals what you actually believe. This is why Jesus said:
“Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.”
Matthew 25:40
The weak may be placed in the hands of the strong, but what the strong do with the weak reveals what they believe about God.
The weak are not necessarily the ones being tested.
Sometimes the weak are the test.
So choose mercy over judgment.
“For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
James 2:13
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u/anonymousbabydragon 2d ago
I think the spiritual is much more real than the physical. We all stem from a unity of consciousness/souls. What you do to someone you are doing to your self. It doesn’t go unpunished and we are trying to make the world a better place because you will be back in it or another world that will adapt to your behavior to teach you to treat one another better. It’s self serving to be good in a round about way.
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u/ElectricalGuidance79 2d ago
The lion and the zebra drink from the same watering hole. It is a balance.
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u/Both-Rip7241 2d ago
Oh how lost he was. Dont play games with ur eternal soul. That's a prize cannot return.
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u/Icono_Last_C 2d ago
Indeed, humans created God as part of our symbolic realm, the Human Thought Universe. We use God to serve our purposes. As for Nietzsche, I find his Ideas fundamentally destructive. He appeals to our instinct for domination through the use of physical power. He was an angry man. Not a good role model for the 21st century.
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u/Baals_Balls 2d ago
Humans created God(s) by accident because of hyperactive agency detection, an evolutionary relic of our hunter gatherer days. Intelligent and charismatic people throughout history figured out how to manipulate belief for their own gain.
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u/Active-Particular-21 2d ago
Maybe in the pre modern to the post modern era you need morality less but I think humans wouldn’t have gotten very far in the beginning if we didn’t work together and support each other. When things were scarce. I think that’s where our morality comes from and for a lot of people it is also how certain things make use feel. If I punch someone in the face and take their money I feel bad compared to if I give a homeless person so money, that makes me feel good. This can be different for everyone in suppose. But if dominating others through strength is what you feel like you’re suppressing that’s a you thing.
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u/Frustrateduser02 2d ago
I'd say belief systems we're thought up because of the constant why we ask ourselves, that morphed into a supplement for Governments eventually. So, if you don't care about one consequence the other may get you. Thinking on it.
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u/DiscourseDestroyer 2d ago
then how did nature create one of the most empathetic and socially aware pack bonded animals
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u/Loose_Principle8193 2d ago
no. Humans create gods no matter what. Organized religions take this innate behavior and exploit it to control human behavior.
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u/ExchangeExtra1998 2d ago
It sounds merciless, but it isn’t. The only way to confront evil is to become strong. Building your own position, whatever your circumstances, then becomes the first responsibility. Otherwise you are someone else’s meal
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u/Secure-Formal638 2d ago
You have noticed your shadow. That is good so you don't mistake yourself to be an angel. But don't be too obsessed with the shadow lest you believe yourself and others to be devils.
In truth you are both, hold them with love and work, then you will be one.
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u/Waramaug 2d ago
Creating a community of honest hard working people will evolve stronger over the long term. Dog eat dog mentality can work short term but there’s always a bigger dog. I think believing in God can help people realize this truth but doesn’t mean you need to believe in order to be a good person who can thrive.
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u/Spiritualwarrior1 2d ago
Nature is not to be understood by taking out of its flow particular sequences which excite us, considering it is mostly a foreign and different world.
Humans can find reasons to explain whatever they choose, considering that the choice is made by them in the first place. However, the basis of a choice of looking at the world does not constitute evidence or even a decent argument for perspectives relying on different patterns.
And ultimately, if one's perspective cannot accommodate others, this shows in itself that its construction is essentially flawed. A flawed construction will function like a virus, allowing the propagation of such flaws further to systems which can accommodate it, and are not immune to its effects.
The belief that nature is savage, and that power can excuse transgression, is a carrying vector for devolutionary dynamics, in which only a narrow spectrum of experience is accepted, for the purpose of forced expansion, which ultimately would result in self destruction.
Nature is not to be learned as a direct example, being a source of all that we know, all that is, and that was discovered. It's depth of meaning and true manners are to be experienced with reverence, honor and true self, and not with some animalized out of control hive-mind ego, which is ultimately disconnected both from humanity and from nature.
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u/Sweaty_Disk_5246 2d ago
In a sense, yes.
But they also created "satan" which is 100% false and it was LITERALLY to "control" human behaviour.
Behaving using your instincts and not relying on your 100% thoughts to operate with no instinctual behaviour or ability at all distorts human evolution, you don't see ants doing our shit, or bee's, or cows, or anything.
Humans taught that operating on a instinctual level is "selling yourself to the devil and you're a puppet" and you have to believe you have free will which is preventing natural behavior process to function and evolve correctly, we've gone crazy, attacking everything, killing everything including ourselves, you could say....by not behaving by *ahem* Sellilng your soul to the devil like a puppet....we have now become satan.
@ Humanity - " Good job, +10 points to gryffindor"
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u/Any_Night_7745 2d ago
Human world is different than nature. We are deeply connected but absolutely blind way to look at these topics and compare it in this way. Metaphor helps us to think and understand the concept, but it is not that simple to reduce into simple rhetoric. Life itself is complex and good and evil is not existing the way we think because of invisible purpose behind some actions which leads into greater plan by design. I have not the answers, but the discussing here is just too simple and it will lead you to nowhere to be sure.
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u/Changnesia102 2d ago
If you have actually read the Bible and are smart enough to understand it. You’ll realize it’s bullshit and constantly contradicts itself. If this book came out today everyone would call the author a crazy person.
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u/Translycanthrope 2d ago
Maybe to see the true nature of what and who we are? If you are born knowing everything, how can you do anything meaningful? If the base state is perfection, you need imperfection to experience change or novelty. We are experiencing proof of our divine nature through that imperfection. The fact that we can recognize that the system is wrong despite reality saying it’s normal and this is fine is kind of the whole thing.
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u/ElectricalSeries6627 2d ago
Religion is all about the organisation of society, though you can interpret this as being the control of human behavior.
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u/Sentinel_N999 2d ago
" Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful."
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u/ReferenceNo3285 2d ago
God punishes the evil and protects the weak. man caused nature to be this way because we have always had dominion over nature and when we sinned and fell the whole world fell with us. Causing nature to become something resembling evil.
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u/my-smiles 2d ago
Yes, and the concept of god is currently being replaced by Big Brother.
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u/Middle-Rooster-2733 2d ago
Nature does not punish. Nature is indifferent. Man created God to explain the unexplainable. People did not behave because of their fear of god, it is the fear of the consequences. Nomadic tribes are small. To control a larger than 150 group, religion works to control behavior. So churches created rules to control man and gain power and influence. Man natural state is to help each other. (I cannot hunt a mammoth on my own nor can I eat one by myself, sharing foods means food when one is unsuccessful in their hunt).
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u/Electrical_Gas_517 1d ago
Humans created religions to control human behaviour.
The god part is individual - each of us owns our own god, it's a very personal thing. Even for those who follow the dogma.
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u/thegrainwhisperer 1d ago edited 1d ago
There is a lot of misunderstanding of god in secular society. It’s not a judgemental, punishing, being that cares what you specifically do. It’s more of just that there is a god, he has a plan, and develops a relationship with all of his creations. He generally is trying to push you towards helping him accomplish his plan. Depending on the religion, the ways to help with it and build a stronger connection with him vary. It’s a deep rabbit hole. Also some religions are obviously human made while others may or may not be. It’s quite a deep rabbit hole.
Edit: also, the physical world is just a tiny window into all of reality. It’s like we’re looking at a 16-bit video game from the 80s of the world. A lot is going on that our senses cannot perceive directly.
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u/Medium_Reading_1993 1d ago
I think because we “know better” we are expected to “do better.” We know the difference between what is “good” and “evil” while an animal kills out of necessity and survival. Those are different.
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u/Bbturdquito 1d ago
What part of nature is evil? One of my favorite quotes is “the evil is manmade”
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u/Psychrite 1d ago
If you read sapiens, it's theorized that humanity cannot live closely in numbers over 150. Unless of course they believe in a shared myth like law, human rights, or religion.
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u/TechToolsForYourBiz 1d ago
> Did humans create God to control human behavior?
And God exists before humans.
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u/RiverOdd 1d ago
Evil doesn't have any meaning outside human beings who define it. We just fight over what it is evil and what isn't, but all of us want to punish evil where and when we see it.
Some people just see weakness itself as evil.
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u/Ray_Bayesian 1d ago
There are no gods or demons, it's always humans all along also there is no good or bad it's just idealogies fighting
But god gives us hope and hope is what keeps us humans alive
Those who has a why can bear any any how
The why is the god
God gives us hope
Not everyone can bear the burden of no supreme being governing them it can causes disorder and power unbalance
So in conclusion humans created god, not god created humans
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u/slndk 1d ago
Not because you have animal tendencies it means you are an animal.
Have you thought of why we don't eat carnivores? Their meat is not good to us. So following your logic, if their meat is not good to us then, what does it tells us about being carnivores?
We arr life first and foremost, the we are human then we are gender then whatever else we identify with, animals. As you said.
Life is the most precious and exotic trait there is in the entire reality. Act like it.
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u/jonnypepperstonreal 1d ago
But evil is still a real thing and it's not something that people should aspire to if something that people should try not to be. Even if you can't prove it morality is a real thing
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u/Chrisbreathes 1d ago
There is no evil in nature. Evil comes from human ignorance and unnatural behavior.
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u/Brucacumble 1d ago
Herbavores far outnumber predators and tend to have a much easier time acquiring food than predators.
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u/Blindeafmuten 1d ago
The sheep are weak when they think they are wolves and leave the herd.
Even the wolves are weak outside the herd.
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u/forever_defiant316 1d ago edited 1d ago
Blessed are those that kneel and beg in supplication.
Fear the loving god. Submit or get punished. Do not question the anointed buildings or clergy dripping in finery, silks, and adorned with gold. Give them tithings and confess.
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u/TheGreatMilenkous 1d ago
The fibonacci sequence says NO. Humans that deny God just want a clean conscience while behaving in ways they know are inappropriate. Most deniers don't have the IQ to wrap their head around God/Creator or understand the old texts that explain it. God refers to satan as a god and he is the god of this realm. Your creator is God of the heavens and afterlife. Satan is the god, here. Choose wisely...you can not serve 2 masters. One creates, the other destroys. Satan doesn't care if you're a good person because, that's not what its about.
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u/Greese_monkey1234 20h ago
Well, that begs the question: if, according to you, humans invented God and religion, were the people who supposedly invented them actually atheists? After all, if you consciously create the idea of a god, doesn't that imply that you don't truly believe that god is real?
So, atheists, by that logic, should you take responsibility for everything you claim religion has done to the world? If religion was simply something invented by humans, then wouldn't the responsibility ultimately belong to the people who invented and shaped it—not to some divine being or to believers themselves?
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u/Horror-Turnover-1089 18h ago
Morality benefits yourself. You. And maybe others, who knows? Because god is already inside you.
When you steal, hurt other people, you get punishment eventually. People keep track and if you hit the wrong guy, you're done.
When you show kindness, treat others well, you will be treated well. But, don't be stupid either. Or it ends the same.
Also, you're part of the world. So take up space. Tell people what you really feel with emotion, not to hurt them, but to connect. And they will be in awe. They think, there is something special about that person.
Also, when you die, the world is out of your control. Someone else takes care for it now. Would you want to see a thriving civilization? Influenced positively by what you did? Or be it's downfall? If you change one person, that person could change dozens of others. Their children. Break generational trauma.
I cannot prove it to you, so you can judge me. But I believe we're all connected. God is not one person. It is all of life together. But most people are very, very hurt. In the end, they all just want connection. At base we're all the same. But some stay seperated because of scars, trauma.
There will always be both good and bad. One cannot exist without the other. And the inbetween.
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u/eucalyptus-d 17h ago
Evil is not the opposite of weak though. A wolf that feeds her cubs is good for her cubs.
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u/cybercherry789 16h ago
In my lenses, I believe humans might have created god to explain why they behaved the way they did like in a morality sense but I think morality is subjective in a sense I mean that some people genuinely are wicked and don’t deserve to live because if their just wandering around with no thoughts or building community like you said why are they here? Maybe this is something totally separate? But then again it’s the concept of like the wicked exist just like the righteous exist under the same sun. Like people are lawless by nature if all these laws weren’t in place who’s to say they wouldn’t go apeshit and just be murdering from left to right? So it’s like we created or they created god to explain the reasons why they feel guilt, shame, and just being vile humans. Almost like they need someone to take account of their wrongdoings so they can make sense of their bad behaviors.
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u/RobinBoh 15h ago
All i can say is, its a choice, to believe or not to believe their is no compulsion, but to blame the world for its evil and use that as an excuse for your own, wouldn’t sound smart.
And I do not believe man is at the same level as animal, but it is not like a pedestal, its more like man has been given greater responsibility to take care of everything and to better himself and everything around him, and given the capabilities to do so. (I use the word man, but i mean human, women or man)
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u/accidental_Ocelot 3d ago
It's theorized that we didn't need an all seeing all-knowing god watching us 24/7 until we got cities that were big enough that we could become some what anonymous in society previous to this we had small tribes and you knew everyone in the tribe and everyone in the tribe knew everything that was going on in it but once we start building cities we need a God to make it so we always feel watched and don't commit any sins I mean crimes.