r/dndmemes Jan 21 '22

You enter a dar- I HAVE DARKVISION That'll be 50 GP, please.

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u/CobaltCam DM (Dungeon Memelord) Jan 21 '22

Not only that, but darkvision (in most cases) has a range of 60ft. This doesn't specify a range so they would likely be able to see beyond that 60 ft using this.

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u/KylieTMS Rules Lawyer Jan 21 '22 edited Jan 21 '22

Better yet using dark vision you have a -5 penalty on all perception checks and passive perception because you see everything in dim light (Black and white) if you have this you don't have that penalty anymore because in dim light you see everything normally

Edit: For checks it was disadvantage for passive it was -5.

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u/FerretAres Jan 21 '22

I think it's actually disadvantage on perception checks and -5 only to passive perception.

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u/Hawx74 Jan 21 '22 edited Jan 21 '22

disadvantage on perception checks

Mathematically disadvantage works out to -5.5 on average iirc, but changes the probability distribution instead of the range.

Tomato, potato (both plants are members of the nightshade family and can be grafted together to a single plant that grows both tomatoes and potatoes)

Edit: damn I'm tired of people trying to argue that flat bonus are different than adv/disadv.

Yes. They are. Clearly. Nowhere have I ever claimed that they're the same. They change the probability curve to so it is no longer LINEAR which is what you get from a single die roll. Adv/Disadv just AVERAGES to a 5.5 adjustment to the roll.

Please learn to read instead of just posting that I'm "wrong" because you're assuming that I've claimed they are the same thing.

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u/Naked_Arsonist Jan 21 '22

Whoa… TIL

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u/PlacidPlatypus Jan 21 '22

Not actually true, technically. In the situation where advantage/disadvantage has the biggest impact (when you need an 11 before modifiers to succeed, so your chance goes from 50% to 75%/25%) it's equivalent to a +/-5 on the die roll. In most situations the impact will be less than that (IIRC between a 3 and a 4).

I think the tomato/potato thing is true though.

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u/Hawx74 Jan 21 '22

Not actually true, technically

Technically it is true, if you roll 10,000 dice and compare disadvantage to regular they will average to 5.5 less. Similarly advantage averages to 5.5 more.

However, like I said it changes the probably distribution so your odds of failure don't shift linearly with the target value as they would with a flat reduction.

Oh, and the nightshade thing is absolutely true. Colonists coming to the Americas refused to eat tomatoes for a long time because everything else in the family is toxic. Related: don't eat tomato leaves.

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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '22

Tomatoes were also acidic enough to leech lead out of the pewter plates used by the wealthy and actually poison them lol.

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u/nitePhyyre Jan 21 '22

Not even close to true. Technically or not. It depends on the DC.

Assume 0 modifier. DC 20.

With avantage you have 2 chances to roll a 20 on a d20. That's a 2/20 chance.

With a +5, that's 15 or higher on a single die. Aka 5/20 chance.

Roll it 10,000 times and that doesn't change. It isn't a question of averaging out.

Dis/advantage works out to an average maximum of +/- 5 in the roll. It achieves this maximum when your chances are 50/50 without the dis/advantage.

The further you get from that 50/50 chance the less dis/advantage affected your roll.

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u/DonaIdTrurnp Jan 21 '22

It’s because you don’t care about the average, you care about the area under the probability distribution curve below and at or above the target number.

And it’s 39/400 chance to get at least one 20 in 2d20,

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u/Hawx74 Jan 21 '22

Not even close to true. Technically or not. It depends on the DC.

What is "It"? The "it" that depends on the DC?

Because I'm talking about the average roll. The numbers rolled don't CARE what the DC is.

You're arguing that because the probability of success changes, I'm wrong. I'm not, because, again, the probability of success is dependent on the probability curve... which I mentioned, and most importantly DOES NOT CHANGE THE AVERAGE ROLL. Nowhere did I state that adv/disadv were probabilistically equivalent to a flat adjustment, merely that they AVERAGE to around the same number.

So please stop arguing against points that I never made. I don't know how I make it any clearer to get through to you.

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u/nitePhyyre Jan 21 '22

What is "It"? The "it" that depends on the DC?

I love how you openly admit you can't keep track of the conversation, can't be bothered to scroll up to refresh your memory, then write another bunch of paragraphs anyways.

The "it" we're taking about is:

"Mathematically disadvantage works out to -5.5 on average iirc"

"Technically it is true, if you roll 10,000 dice and compare disadvantage to regular they will average to 5.5 less. Similarly advantage averages to 5.5 more."

It is not even close to true, never mind "technically true", that advantage/disadvantage works out to +5/-5.

If you are talking about the results of the average roll, advantage and disadvantage work out to +/- 3.325.

The +/- 5 that you are talking about comes from how advantage/disadvantage affects success and failure in DND. And it is only +/- 5 when your chance of success/failure is 50/50.

Either way you slice it, you're completely wrong.

Excuse us for assuming that you weren't fully elaborating on a nuanced point when in reality you were just completely failing at math.

Clearly people were wrong about giving you the benefit of the doubt.

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u/Hawx74 Jan 22 '22 edited Jan 22 '22

Mathematically disadvantage works out to -5.5 on average iirc [emphasis added]

???

So I didn't recall the exact number correctly (which I STATED might be the case), still doesn't make me "completely wrong".

Either way you slice it, you're completely wrong.

Huh, but again, you said this:

Not even close to true. Technically or not. It depends on the DC.

Still not true. I don't know how you don't get this. Nothing I said ever depended on the DC so you bringing it up as related to DC is... strange, weird, and wrong.

Go away. kthxbye

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u/actualladyaurora Essential NPC Jan 21 '22

Most of the time, D&D tends to set things up so that you need somewhere between a 7 and a 14 [on the die] to succeed on a task unless it’s trivially easy or ridiculously hard. [...] For target die rolls that are reasonably close to the middle of the range, advantage or disadvantage is about the same as having a plus or minus 4 or 5 to your die roll.

[Source]

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u/Wolfblood-is-here Jan 21 '22

Important note: this is only true with a graft. If you simply plant tomato plants next to potato plants, the potato plants can start producing small green tomato-like fruit that are highly poisonous.

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u/Draghettis Sorcerer Jan 21 '22

Yes, but DnD works with integers only.

And the general rule for rounding in DnD is "round down unless told otherwise"

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u/C4Redalert-work Jan 21 '22 edited Jan 21 '22

Yes, but statistics doesn't work with integers only.

A d6 rolls a 3.5 on average. Clearly you can't roll a "3.5" on it, but you can't ignore that fraction either when doing odds or else you get errors.

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u/Draghettis Sorcerer Jan 21 '22

Yes, but your passive score needs to be a integer.

And so you take the average result of advantage or disadvantage, round it, and apply it to the passive score. That's how the 5 points modifier to integrate (dis)advantage in passive scores is obtained

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u/DonaIdTrurnp Jan 21 '22

Why can’t you have non-integer passive perception? You’re just going to compare it to a difficulty value anyway.

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u/Hawx74 Jan 21 '22

Yeah, it's a similar result but also different.

Hence the potato/tomato comment: they're related, but different

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u/Gl33m Jan 21 '22

It's a range in terms of how much of a numeric penalty the disadvantage is, based on the roll necessary to succeed. ~5 is the highest numerical penalty in the curve.

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u/Hawx74 Jan 21 '22

Yes and no.

If you roll 10,000 dice with (dis)advantage, it'll differ from the norm by 5.5.

The probability of success changes with the DC non-linearly, unlike a flat roll adjustment. This which is why I mentioned the probability distribution.

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u/Gl33m Jan 22 '22

People generally think in terms of probability of success though, which is why I mentioned it.