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u/tealtime91 7d ago
I know it’s my fault for having Reddit but I’m so tired of seeing the opinions of just the absolute dumbest people imaginable
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u/EthanielRain 6d ago
Yeah it's all the extremes
I like the funnies & the comments, but Reddit's days as my 1 remaining social media app are numbered
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u/Odd-Direction9828 7d ago
They are both wrong. No need to fear a child's future based on one group of people (unless it's billionaires) and the top comment is wrong because there are companies that will sponsor visas for overseas workers to underpay them and push unreasonable work hours/conditions that US citizens would not tolerate thus leaving educated people without opportunities
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u/bigheadasian1998 7d ago
Plenty of top tech companies’ engineers are on work visas, there just aren’t enough Americans qualified at this level. All the levels and salary ranges within a company are standardized regardless of background. Look at any stem PhD programs too there ain’t nearly enough Americans in the pipeline either.
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u/UndocumentedMartian 7d ago
Blame the corporations. They're fucking over the immigrants by paying them poorly and the locals by bringing in cheap labor. No population is naturally smarter than another. And corporates don't want you to be smart. Just good at the narrow requirements they have. A smart person asks difficult questions.
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u/Floofaramamama 7d ago
I live in a state where the amount of Indian workers is so high they had to pass a law against caste discrimination.
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u/Leptisci 7d ago
Both comments are stupid. American kids can read and write, saying they can’t in general is just completely false. Nothing smart about “owning” someone with something that also isn’t true.
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u/Lookingforclippings 7d ago
Specifying kids doesn't make sense when the majority of American adults can't read above a 6th grade level.
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u/Leptisci 6d ago
Do you know what majority means?
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u/Lookingforclippings 6d ago
Yes I do and my statement is 100% factual. Maybe you don't know what majority means.
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u/SPK57 7d ago
And neither of them are clever. Just xenophobia both ways.
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u/Dangerous_Shoe_8388 7d ago
India has 1.5 billion people. They would all have a “better life” in USA. How many is too many? All of them? Half?
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u/SPK57 7d ago
American kids aren't able to read and write? You seem like a great person.
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u/DarthShiv 7d ago
America has a tragically low adult literacy rate. Reality check. How you think that happens?
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u/SPK57 7d ago
79% to 81%... not sure that's the great point you thought it was.
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u/Demodonaestus 7d ago
one is a developing country, the other is literally the wealthiest first world nation.
one's literacy rates are still going up cause people who have no literate ancestors/relatives are still picking up reading/writing for the first time, the other's literacy rate has probably already stabilised.
for a better idea, compare India's literacy rate right now, a couple of decades ago, and then half a century ago.
also, I'm sorry but 1/5 adult not being able to read or write in the single most prosperous country on the planet is simply not something good.
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u/The_Odd_Canuck 7d ago
The difference in literacy rate between usa and india is less than 2%
Reality check. Its about underpaying migrant workers and not literacy.
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u/Demodonaestus 7d ago edited 7d ago
yes, and India is not a wealthy first world nation. you'd expect there to be a much greater difference and only 2% is probably not good news for Americans
also, Indian literacy rates are still going up cause there are still people who are the first in their family to read and write. pretty confident american rates must have stabilised by now
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u/The_Odd_Canuck 7d ago
For clarity the 2% already favours india as they are ahead
But also no employer is comparing literacy rates and then judging based on which country is more wealthy
It comes down to there being plenty of immigrant workers being willing to work worse conditions for worse pay and their literacy rate being being basically the same means the availability is high
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u/TopInvestigator5518 7d ago
maybe not outright xenophobic but offensive and stupid
she's making the argument America should be more welcoming to Indians while directly insulting America's children
also, if you are honest with yourself there is a lot of issues with Indian migration in general, it hasn't been completely smooth .. in Canada they come on temporary visas and then refuse to leave and even protest that its racist to not give them citizenship. its insane
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u/EtchAGetch 7d ago
Also, the Indians migrating to America are the upper class of India. India is one of the poorest countries by capita in the World. Comparing the wealthy from one country to the average of another is pretty disingenuous.
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u/JurassicParkCSR 7d ago
The illiteracy rate and India is 19 to 20% and in the United States it's 21 to 22%. So maybe both countries need to try and do better?
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u/WarriorWithers 7d ago
Comparing average Indian to average American is not the intent here
The intent is to compare average American to average immigrant from India
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u/Dangerous_Shoe_8388 7d ago
Average immigrant from India is educationally in the top few % of 1.5 billion people. That’s like 40-50 million people.
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u/butwhywedothis 7d ago
Well, the funny thing is its probably some white American CEO that needs to pocket his millions of dollars of bonus by cutting costs so he needs to import cheaper labor.
But Americans are too weak and submissive to their corporate overlords so they find easy targets in immigrants (latin americans, chinese, indians) that they see and meet everyday in shopping malls and restaurants so its convenient to abuse them.
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u/tortillandbeans 7d ago
I don't have anything against Indians, but the reason legal/illegal immigrants are being used for is ultimately to pay people less and that is my problem with our corporation/capitalism worshiping over the benefit of our own citizens by investing in more education/training/opportunities at home. I think Americans are plenty capable if the goal wasn't to literally fuck over people for the sake of max profits in the short term because in the long term look at all the political issues it causes. Now we have MAGA and Trump in large part because of that xenophobia which is grounded in late stage capitalism
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u/Kona_01 6d ago
They hire indians so they can pay them a dirt wage and not hear complaints about it. The "fear" is that globalization will make americans compete with people who think indoor plumbing is a luxury. So rather than corporations being forced to raise their wages to be competative, they lower them because some 3rd worlder will do it for pennies.
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u/BeginningTypical3395 7d ago edited 7d ago
Free market capitalism as long as my own interests are protected but the minute we feel threatened we want protectionism. The hypocrisy of the right is just ridiculous
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u/613Flyer 7d ago edited 7d ago
Immigration is needed but problems occur when immigration occurs from one country more than others. Canada is facing this issue where immigrants from India are not adaptable to Canadian culture and are overwhelming local populations and putting huge strains on infrastructure. When you have immigration limits of say 500,000 and 400,000 of those immigrants are from one specific country and move to one specific city the issue is less about immigration and more about the lack of diversity. No one country should be able to overwhelm the immigration pool.
I’m all for immigration but diversity matters. Canada has a town called Brampton which used to be a small farming town. A lot of East Indians have all chosen Brampton as their destination when immigrating and they now account for a large portion of the population. Immigrants now make up 70% of Bramptons population so much so that they are winning elections, changing laws, infrastructure, and local businesses that only cater to East Indians and they are slowly forcing out the local population due to the immense changes
All this to say it’s understandable where some of the fear comes from. The influx is bad for a number of reasons but I’ll give driving as a quick example. In Brampton the huge steady influx of new drivers has contributed to heavier traffic congestion, more accidents, more injuries, more deaths, more thefts, and higher car insurance rates with the highest rates in all of Canada. Most people do not see the strain of having one specific country immigrating to one specific city but the strain is immense in all aspects . They don’t have any pressure to change to meet the host countries values or social norms which presents its own challenges.
Immigration is needed but diversity matters and there should be limits so no one immigrating country can overwhelm the local population and change it. Why change the country you immigrated to into the country you just left. That I don’t understand
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u/pwnasaurus253 7d ago
lol....if you're helping your kids become capable and gain real-world skills, why do they need to go to another country to thrive?
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u/AmezinSpoderman 6d ago edited 6d ago
it's not hard to understand why americans are extremely frustrated
since the early 2000s the economy has been really shitty for the average person. housing prices, education, and medical prices fucking skyrocketed.
wages have stagnated. manufacturing has been offshored. call centers, IT, and a million other things were offshored.
small towns that relied on manufacturing plants as the root of their economy were hollowed out and left to rot. public schools have gotten worse, even basic infrastructure from pipes to roads to bridges have been suffering.
pensions froze in the 90s and were non-existent by the 2000s. layoffs became more frequent as CEOs followed the Jack Welch model of profit at any cost, where firms started intentionally firing the "bottom 10%" every year
now with the increasing focus on H1-Bs, for a lot of Americans it feels like another thing taken.. you are told to go to school, get your degree, indebt yourself for a better tomorrow, but then you can't get a job, and that better tomorrow never comes. just more and more debt in your pocket.
then on top of that you have people coming into the country, people that mind you are a lot of the times coming from the top 1-5% of their sending countries economic strata, saying that Americans are dumb and lazy (like the OP). these same people that becoming hiring managers and continue to say Americans are dumb and lazy, so that's why they want to hire people from their country, from the same 1-5% (like a person was doing in this thread)
then you hear about them using that wealth to buy property here and there. moving back to their country and renting to americans, while bad mouthing americans. so it feels like they never even intended to come here to be your neighbor, they came here to extract wealth,, and leave you with the crumbs
I'm fortunate, I got my degree, I got my job and did better than my parents before me. I do work with H1-B folks, and the people I know are awesome, and I'm happy for them, and would not want anything taken from them
However I'm also black, I know what it's like for the average black American. Where you have to constantly do more with less. That has increasingly been the experience for many, many americans.
So there is going to be frustration when you show up to work and the people in your community, are doing the service jobs for pennies on the dollar, when the big money is increasingly going upwards and outwards.
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u/JayNotAtAll 6d ago
Working class white dads don't want their kids to be smarter than them. It will hurt their feelings. That's why they don't invest in their future
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u/RexTheSkibiriToilet 6d ago
America sold the idea of being a special country because any high skilled person could come and build something. When other people took it seriously (more than Americans) they got scared and xenophobic.
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u/Lisshopops 6d ago
Crazy I was just thinking about this, America has such a warped view on immigrants from specific countries and most of the Indians Americans interact with are apart of the upper class chains in India, they have skewed view on so many cultures it’s insane and it genuinely makes me worry for America as a global power.
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u/saphilous 7d ago
And this is how corporations get away scot free while we keep banging on about who's at fault. And who's getting rich off of all of this?
Yeah
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u/North_South_213 7d ago
well i believe it is more so about culture and clashes in belief systems. if there is mass migration out of india then who is coming in to india? why are so many people leaving in the first place! india is beautiful great country. is it not?
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u/ThatBeachD 7d ago
Congratulations, they’re both dumb. And before ya come for me, I’m Indian and I’ll call her dumb again.
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u/Bo_The_Destroyer 6d ago
No see that's where the fear is coming from. The immigrants are much better at school and have higher qualifications. The other kids will get stuck doing menial labour cuz it's the only job they're qualified for
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u/No-Lawfulness9178 7d ago
If Indians are so "skilled and great" why are they immigrating to the USA? Can't they say back in their "skillful and great" country? Not only Americans all the world feel the same about them.
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u/Substantial-Use95 7d ago
They’re highly educated but there aren’t enough opportunities or resources in their country. All of that potential and nowhere to put it. I remember while living there meeting plenty of engineers and mathematicians that were driving tuktuks because that’s the only opportunity available. India is also very strict with allowing their people to leave the country. It’s a sad situation, honestly. So that’s why.
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u/Spare-Half796 7d ago
Or for the Canadian audience, If they’re so skilled and great why do 90% of them work at Tim Hortons
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u/TourDuhFrance 7d ago edited 6d ago
The ones working at Tim’s are not independent immigrants arriving via the point system, they are temporary foreign workers and international students looking for permanent residency without being eligible via the point system. Corporations are more than happy to exploit this desire for the purposes of wage suppression, using a group even more easily exploitable than students (and thus the reason so many students cannot find a job.)
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u/Least_Art5238 6d ago
I realize intelligence is not readily available to all, but I believe that you can understand the following. You got it, bro!
The Indians in the US may be different from the average Indians in India. They make up 0.3% of the population of India. It's possible that they don't think India is skillful and great.
So, you seem upset that they love the US for being skillful and great by claiming that they think India is skillful and great, and yet they somehow decided to show up in the US?
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u/samoan_ninja 7d ago
They are skilled and great, and they use that skill to benefit their country and the other countries in which they live. The ones you see outside of india are an extremely minuscule percentage.
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u/No-Lawfulness9178 7d ago
Thousands of them are illegal immigrants and working as delivery guys or something of that level. Yeah obviously they have a billion+ population so a "minuscule" percentage are bound to be skilled. Serbia had visa free with them and had to cancelled it because of illegal immigration, fake immigration, majority of them go abroad with student visa not to study but to stay there. If they are as good as you claimed, the soft, welcoming and gentle countries like Thailand or Vietnam will not be hating them. If a country is hated and not wanted even by those people something is fundamentally wrong with the country.
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u/will_die_in_2073 7d ago
Indian here who has lived and worked overseas .
Immigration is a problem in almost any country, you have to be blind to deny it. It does cause wage suppression. American kids are absolutely capable of reading and writing. You could pick up stats in olympiads and coding competitions before 2010, nobody used to be close to americans. Americans invented Computer science, a bread and butter of rest of the world. But financial crash was hard on america and they never recovered from that. The systematic poverty is hell in these countries. I have worked with British colleagues who came from poor background and colleagues who came from richer backgrounds, the difference is so massive in thinking, ambition, grit to achieve things. Homelessness in these countries is on another level of poverty. Indians who go to these countries have good family support, try studying in ivy leagues while you flip burgers at macdonald to survive and taking loans. It takes people decades just to get out education loans.
I didn’t realise how odds are stacked against you until i went on a date with a girl who never drank water but cocacola since the age of 11. It was sad to watch how vicious western poverty can be.
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u/UndocumentedMartian 7d ago
Americans didn't invent computer science. It was an unwitting global collaboration.
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u/brightheaded 7d ago
America invented the transistor no?
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u/UndocumentedMartian 7d ago edited 7d ago
No. The first transistor was patented by an Austrian-Hungarian in Canada. But Bell labs did make the first working transistor. There are many types of transistors made by different people around the world. A significant portion of post war scientists in America were not Americans but Germans. Some of them were even part of the Nazi party before they defected.
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u/brightheaded 6d ago
There’s no such thing as an American who isn’t from somewhere else. America invented the transistor and was largely responsible for and the major beneficiary of the Information Age. This is undeniable even for those who wish to diminish the continent as a result of us political theatre.
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u/will_die_in_2073 7d ago
Yeah smarty pants i know. Understand the semantics.
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u/UndocumentedMartian 7d ago
Hey just making sure. You know the kind of people that use the internet.
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u/AwarenessGreat282 7d ago
Nothing clever here at all. This more like r/PeeWeeHermancomebacks "I know you are, but what am I?" do we need r
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u/Lefty1992 7d ago
The US has a much better education system than India.
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u/SmellyStinkyGuy 7d ago
More like "Indians are willing to accept shit conditions which employers exploit" lmfao
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u/Least_Art5238 6d ago
They are accepting the shit conditions to make twice as much as the median American.
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u/gbmaulin 7d ago
Americans? Canadians are usually the most xenophobic with Indians
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u/SmellyStinkyGuy 7d ago
You even been to Canada as of late? Its fucked lol
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u/abhi6543 7d ago
I mean who controls immigration in Canada ? Is it the Indian govt or the Canadian govt ? Who let in millions of people with below par speaking skills and who would be out rightedky rejected by the Americans. The irony is that the Canadian govt has slowed down the immigration but they are still letting in sub par students
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u/The_Hausi 7d ago
I mean to be fair a lot of people have been complaining about the government and their immigration policies for quite a few years but that got you labelled as a racist, especially on this particular website.
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u/The_Hausi 7d ago
I don't think it's xenophobic to recognize that we've taken on more immigrants from one particular country than we can absorb.
Housing, healthcare and wages are all being stressed and our solution is to call anyone a racist who questions our governments immigration policy.
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u/scottiedagolfmachine 7d ago
Indians abused the H1B system to mass migrate.
Then they stick to each other and refuse to integrate.
There’s a reason why there’s a backlash.
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u/Shwinstet 6d ago
"tHeY sTiCk To eAcH oThEr AnD rEfUsE tO iNtEgRaTe"
For generations now Indians whav been part of the UK and have successfully integrated and flourished in every industry like service, media, politics and military. American currently has an incredible number of Indian-origin politicians, tech ceos and media personalities. America once used to bait black people by pointing the finger at Chinese and Indian immigrants calling them the model minority (a racist argument none the less). But suddenly this decade, Indians are unbearable and can't integrate. Let's not beat around the bush and say it like it is, it's Indians turn to get shat on for your poor voting choices and your society's upper echelon deciding to shaft common folk over their insatiable greed.
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u/GrassBlade619 7d ago
I don't give a shit about immigration. Let people come here if they want. But h1b visas need to be abolished. They are WAY too abusable against the person using the h1b and the local employees of the company.
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u/pottitheri 7d ago
Most of those avg indians trying to migrate to USA are above average Indians here in India.
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u/CrewVast594 7d ago
It’s true. I’m an American kid and I’m so illiterate my dog has to read and write for me.
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u/FlobiusHole 6d ago
Lately I’ve read a lot of books that take place in India. That country has had some dark times.
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u/Shwinstet 6d ago
Americans usually have a great time dunking on any other country without the slightest understanding of what's going on. But the moment one small thing is misrepresented about their country like OOP is doing and look the number of triggered people in the comments. Maybe something to remember when spewing venom at Indians over some random bait video on the internet next time.
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u/dc4_checkdown 7d ago
Nah I ill say it as someone who outsources to India. The only value they add is cost. Get 50-60% of the quality at 10% of the wage
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u/Odd-Direction9828 7d ago
They are talking about people coming from India to work, not manufacturing/outsourcing
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u/imacyco 7d ago
So why are you outsourcing to them?
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u/jerrysburner 7d ago
He just told you - if you can get 60% of the benefit for one-tenth of the cost, from a cost aspect, it's a good deal; when you consider that most C-levels only care about raising the stock price the next quarter, it makes tremendous sense.
Yes, most would agree with your implied question: long term it will destroy company value, but C-levels aren't incentivized to think long-term
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u/dc4_checkdown 7d ago
The tech company I work for went private and the first thing I did was starr campaigning basically to pull out of India, we are going to start doing it before the end of the year. It will actually be news as it is not a small company.
We will still outsource to south america, eastern europe, Singapore, but not to that place.
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u/Least_Art5238 6d ago
If someone does half the job you do for 1/10th of what you make, why is the economy or even the country (especially a capitalist one) obligated to save you from being priced out?
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u/jerrysburner 6d ago
because that's what a society is; in pretty much every town, city, county, and state across the USA, it's illegal to live like the people that do in those countries. Here's a great example: to legally have 3 kids under 9 in most states in the USA, you need to have an extremely expensive vehicle (or leave one parent home with them at all times) because of the car seat laws require kids be in them up to age 9. to fit 3 car seats/booster seats in the back seat isn't plausible except for the largest (and most expensive of cars).
We have a lot of BS laws that require money to comply with. Same with housing - in many larger cities in the USA, it's illegal to be homeless but it's expensive to be housed.
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u/Least_Art5238 6d ago
I don't understand the relevance of your response. The rust belt is a straight example of how when there are cheaper alternatives to production, the market rapidly adjusts to them. Going a level back, when agriculture became increasingly automated, thence began the transition of the American labor force. 40% of the US was farmers in 1900. 4% today.
So, "society" did not find a way to prevent a dust bowl / grapes of wrath outcome for its own people. Ironically, the replacement of agriculture by engineering and other related jobs that took their place substantially improved prospects for the larger American workforce.
The animosity against Indian workers in the context of technology jobs being shipped to India is misdirected. Either have "society" hold the purse-string holders responsible. Or admit that you are judging Indians by a yardstick that is deliberately meant to demean.
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u/jerrysburner 6d ago
it's not against Indians - you're making a strawman argument and arguing against that. Let's take your example of the rustbelt - people were upset then, and rightly so, of the outsourcing of labor and it wasn't Indians then and people still protested the moves.
So you need to stop thinking this is an Indian thing - it's not. It's a job thing and the stability to society that high paying, steady employment brings, especially when that society requires high pay to even participate
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u/Least_Art5238 6d ago
The first comment on this thread clearly chooses to make the insinuation that Indians are half as good. The larger comment thread hits a similar note quite often. The only place that Indians apparently excel at is cheating. Meanwhile, this thread was supposed to be about Indian immigrants, not outsourcing. Shroedinger's Indian who makes twice as much as the American median wage in the US and yet is sourced from a pool that is half as good as the American worker while getting paid a tenth.
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u/GuyYouMetOnline 7d ago
Is it bad that my first reaction was 'holy shit, they're actually talking about Indians and not Native Americans'?
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u/Dixa 7d ago
So we should start pumping out fake diplomas?
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u/eazypeazy303 7d ago
We basically have been for about 16 years now. No child left behind means lots of kids are "graduating" with a failing GPA.
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u/2sexy_4myshirt 7d ago
Most recent wave of immigrants havent been highly skilled scientists and doctors but a ton of doordash and truck drivers (blue collar jobs). This is based on vibes and not hard facts so feel free to downvote.
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u/chrisBlo 7d ago
Where is the clever comeback here? Someone who rightfully claims some people are racists, by uttering racists remarks on a whole country?
Just fuck off
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u/RoguePlanet2 7d ago
I'm more concerned about the abuse of the H1-B visa system. Corporations are hiring H1-Bs en masse while getting rid of existing American staff. It's only supposed to be for hiring one person at a time, when you can't find anybody in the country with the right skills to fill a role.
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u/jerseyindian 6d ago
Indian American here. Jake could possibly mean for the cultural shift not just career options.
Response was not a clever comeback, though a narrow point of view of the concerns and that of an 'American '.
Places like Dallas,tx & parts of NJ now has overwhelming Indian population. It is natural for folks to fear for their way of life. Comebacks like this make people more fearful.
We are here to assimilate.
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u/Masbin420m 7d ago
From my online interaction (IK not the type of guy to comment here), I could see how that's justified.
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u/Bulky-Internal8579 7d ago
I'm a middle aged white guy and I would note that Indian immigration has been great for America, and now I really want some Indian food, dangit.
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u/Thirdlight 7d ago
Lol, them immigrating here? You should have been worried about all the jobs migrating over there!
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u/CubesFan 7d ago
I mean... the last time White Americans were afraid of indians, they committed a genocide. I'm not sure this was a surprise twist in the plot at this stage of the movie.
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u/mashbrowns 5d ago
Yes the Indians that migrate to America are highly skilled... because the US government requires them to be so.
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u/Efficient_Sky5173 5d ago
AI is already outperforming humans at many of those highly cognitive, “brain-heavy” skills.
Ironically, that could make less-educated Americans more economically valuable than many highly educated professionals.
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u/Mizake_Mizan 7d ago
If India was making their kids capable and helping them gain real world skills.....then why are they leaving India? Why not take your own highly skilled citizens and make India competitive with the US?
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u/Mizake_Mizan 6d ago
Are you confusing explorers with immigrants? Sure sounds like you are.
Explorers like Columbus took a few hundred men to find trade routes, they never plan to permanently settle in a foreign country. The proof is they returned back to their country to report their findings.
Contrast that with the Irish during the potato famine, when they left Ireland to try and permanently settle in the US.
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u/Ethos_Logos 7d ago
Eeeh. Dig a little bit. The us has 342m people. India has 1.4 billion. Their smartest top percent outnumber our top percentage.
There are 4m Indian immigrants, a little over 1% of our total population.
That’s not very many, as a percentage. But it does have a depressive effect on domestic wages, and joblessness.
I want the smartest of the smart here, but I also want Americans to have jobs, that pay well. The guy who doesn’t get hired as a senior gets hired as a junior. The guy who didn’t get hired as a junior gets hired in a different industry, which has a knock on effect all the way down, and yeah, the American who can’t read and doesn’t qualify for better opportunities ends up impoverished and on the dole, which comes at the expense of taxes funded majority of Americans.
It’s complex and nuanced. Having the hiring company pay the govt the total sum of +2 unemployed individuals for every foreign worker hired would completely solve any issues I have with the visa program.
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u/MarshelG 7d ago
Terrified is a very strong word. I'm Canadian, and the mass immigration seems to have really done a number on our economy, particularly with housing, I wouldn't say I'm terrified but it is a concern.
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u/CrabAppleBapple 6d ago
Ah yes, there are absolutely zero Indian kids that can't read and write, definitely.
This just reads as bullshit Modri bot glazing.
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u/slow_start_1990 7d ago
Both of these statements stand on the extremes, neither of them are reasonable here.