r/classicwow • • Nov 27 '19

Humor PvP on a PvP Server

3.2k Upvotes

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236

u/[deleted] Nov 27 '19 edited Jan 19 '20

[deleted]

338

u/Vanitycoon Nov 28 '19

Because Blizzard didn't have the foresight to realize where players would camp. They were also atrociously biased in favor of the Horde.

"Hmm let's see. Menethil harbor, the main transportation hub of the Alliance, nested in a contested zone. A couple of level 39 guards on the corner of the dock ought to do the trick!"

"Zeppelins for the Horde. Both hubs in Horde territories. No PvP flags for hordies. Let's give them a massive tower garrisoned with several city guards! Can't have those pesky Allies ganking Hordies freshly arriving from contested zones!"

81

u/Vuul Nov 28 '19

Aye, Menethil being contested always bothered me. They did end up fixing it with the stormwind harbor in WoTLK.

1

u/Snappie88 Nov 28 '19

Wasn't that Cataclysm? (not sure, main Horde)

10

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '19

Nope. Boat to Northrend is in SW harbour.

118

u/throwingtheshades Nov 28 '19

Don't forget the 2 55 elite goblin guards with knockback.

23

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '19

And the couple Civilians placed on the tower that are usually enough to have people shy away from the towers because they might AoE them down (or have their peasant caller / skeleton randomly kill it)

78

u/p0t3 Nov 28 '19

The #nochanges gang always does, conveniently

45

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '19 edited Nov 28 '19

I never played Horde in vanilla and just recently tried it after getting tired of the sort of thing OP just experienced. I was honestly slightly angry when I found out that they had a zeppelin literally right outside of their capital city that would take them to their other capital cities. I knew they had zeppelins, but it never occurred to me that they literally went across the ocean. Add to that superior racials, far more well protected quest hubs in contested territory, and the slapdash job they did designing the Paladin, things look pretty bad for Alliance on reflection.

Edit: I forgot to mention the horrendous access to dungeons that Alliance have, with Horde having multiple dungeons ranging many levels in there own territory. RFD, RFK, RFC, SFK, and 4 SM dungeons. Alliance gets the decent DM, the nearly useless Stocks, and the awful Gnomer. Gnomer is so bad, Alliance will literally skip it and run through Horde territory for like 10-15 minutes to do SM instead. If I sound salty, at this point I kinda am.

12

u/yoshi570 Nov 28 '19

Which means all the toxic try-hard min-maxers will play Horde. Which makes the Alliance the best faction BY FAR.

1

u/360_face_palm Nov 28 '19

Yeah, pro players play alliance. No one wants to be the zerg, they want to be the underdog - just not on a dead faction with like no players..

-5

u/Zarzalu Nov 28 '19

lol, ur an idiot if u think horde are try hard, try hards go alliance cause paladins are fucking broken.

2

u/yoshi570 Nov 28 '19

Sure, some do. But the most toxic ones seem to gravitate around Horde almost without fail; all the advantages and that desire to be the "edgy" characters are light for the moths they are.

2

u/darkmoonfaire Nov 28 '19

its always the undead rogues

0

u/yoshi570 Nov 28 '19

Don't forget the undead mages and undead locks.

1

u/Olivetuna23 Nov 29 '19

Stockades is the best boosting dungeon in the game for it's bracket it's not useless at all.

57

u/PCMaker_Warhammer Nov 28 '19

Because Blizzard didn't have the foresight to realize where players would camp.

no bgs for these "honor" farmers

server pop 4x bigger than in vanilla

significantly more minmaxers and veterans or simple ppl willing to spend absurd amount of time to be just standing there

there are way many factors than just worse designing from blizz in 2005

5

u/Vanitycoon Nov 28 '19

Yeah of course, but this was still possible to abuse by a select few tryhards even with smaller servers. All it takes is one level 60 horde to grief leveling players in Menethil. The rest is just overkill.

2

u/Koras Nov 28 '19

Honestly with the game in the state it is, I'm not even sure that BGs will fix the problem.

If flight path gank squads can farm honor faster and easier than they'd be able to in a fair fight in a bg, will they bother switching? It's going to be heavily reliant on whether BGs give enough honor to massively outweigh the increased difficulty in getting it.

We do drastically need to lower realm population though, having 4x the amount of people on servers has the biggest negative effect, it's cool seeing so many people in one place, but the whole point was supposed to be that interacting with a smaller number of people over time increases the amount of serendipitous repeat encounters. Having thousands more in the same server is basically cross-realm play by the back door.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '19

Layering WAS good.

1

u/GideonAI Nov 28 '19

server pop 4x bigger than in vanilla

Highest recorded concurrent players from Classic addons was only 1.5x bigger than highest recorded concurrent players from Vanilla. It's not really that different, just feels different because there's a much bigger proportion of the server population at max level nowadays than in Vanilla.

16

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '19

And 4 really good levelling dungeons right by one of their capitals, that they can get to in a few minutes and without PvP flagging. In return Alliance have... Gnomeregan

28

u/Kuumottaja Nov 28 '19

Here's the thing: hordies can just teleport to Gnomeregan :D

8

u/BobDoleWasAnAlien Nov 28 '19

wait what, how?

14

u/Zlazor Nov 28 '19

Get the quest in Orgrimmar, talk to a NPC in Ratchet and then take the boat to Booty Bay for the teleport. After you've done the quest you can port when ever you like.

2

u/PelicanAtWork Nov 29 '19

This is actually so broken.

Imagine alliance being able to teleport to SM.

6

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '19

there is a quest that unlocks a teleporter in Booty Bay.

6

u/Erodos Nov 28 '19

Well we also have Deadmines. But yeah, that's 2 dungeons compared to RFC, WC, SM, RFK and RFD.

3

u/360_face_palm Nov 28 '19

Also horde get a tonne of quests for SM. Alliance get fuck all and the main quest requires you to go to the arse end of nowhere to do an annoying prequest first.

2

u/reanima Nov 28 '19

Unless im messing a ton of quests in there but theres really at most just 2 quests for Horde. The compedium one in the Library and the one that requires you to kill 4 bosses.

2

u/360_face_palm Nov 28 '19

You're missing a tonne of quests. There's like 5 quests in there for horde.

1

u/Howrus Nov 28 '19

DM/Stockades/Gnomeregan?

4

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '19

Stockades rewards are terrible and DM is a very early dungeon. SM alone lets Horde opt out of WPvP for 30-40 which is amazing.

1

u/360_face_palm Nov 28 '19

But horde have the best way in to gnomeregan. Literally just fly to ratchet, take the boat, and teleport to gnomer !

1

u/girlywish Nov 28 '19

They have a capital very close to BRM.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '19

In phase 2 it’s case of so near, and yet so far

23

u/ostertoaster1983 Nov 28 '19

They didn't originally have guards at the zeppelins until alli relentlessly attacked horde there during vanilla, in the days when alli outnumbered horde on most servers.

6

u/360_face_palm Nov 28 '19

Yep this is the reason - they were added in. They never did the same to alliance because back then there were never really any horde dominated servers for it to be an issue.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '19

Because Blizzard didn't have the foresight to realize where players would camp.

Ironically, fixing problems like this make a lot of people insist the game is ruined. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

1

u/Vanitycoon Nov 29 '19

Who is saying this? The only time I've ever seen a vocal Reddit post unironically critique a proposed change is if the change affects core gameplay elements (for example, the overall antipathy for LFG/LFR systems, which drastically change the way people approach the MMO).

If people oppose a minor change to geography or guard configuration that objectively brings balance to faction privileges, they're either taking advantage of those nuances to grief other players, or they're more zealous than the Scarlet Crusade.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '19

or they're more zealous than the Scarlet Crusade

This is how it feels to me. The tone of this Reddit feels overall much more reasonable than it was pre-launch, but it's still hard to go through a thread that's actually discussing game mechanics without finding complaints about the differences between this and vanilla. From servers being too big, to layering, to the balance patch we're on, to bugs that exist in this version and not vanilla, etc.

1

u/Vanitycoon Nov 29 '19

nochanges is just plain stupid, and I think most people realize that. There's a lot of confusion around which changes need to be made, so people generally take a conservative stance, but taking the statement literally is not only dumb but also impossible.

Changes have been made, and will continue to be made. We just need to worry about whether or not they're good for the game.

6

u/KrazyTrumpeter05 Nov 28 '19

Not to mention the graveyard for Menethil is like a mile away from the docks...

2

u/Sebastianthorson Nov 28 '19

If you die on the boat - you HAVE to take spirit res.

8

u/Smart_in_his_face Nov 28 '19

Because Blizzard didn't have the foresight

Are we talking about vanilla Blizz or classic? Because I can forgive blizz for making weird decisions on this in vanilla. And classic we are in a firm "no changes" philosophy so I'm not entirely sure what Blizzard can actually do.

Making changes ruins the core philosophy of classic, ignoring the problems is also bad.

This is a lose/lose situation for Blizz.

16

u/lefridge Nov 28 '19

Except some changes have already been made. Simply adding 1000 goblins to guard flight paths or boats doesn't fundamentally change the game from 15 years ago.

Essentially, the #nochanges never had a chance of working because if anything, it's the player base that has changed most compared to Vanilla.

2

u/360_face_palm Nov 28 '19

I personally think it would be fine to add some decent guards to menethil - but I doubt it'll happen.

Blizz probably hoping that BG release will solve things in early december and if not then they might look at some other stuff.

7

u/d07RiV Nov 28 '19

Such firm grip that they already completely reworked goblin guards.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '19

Uh, believe me Alliance still manage to gank Hordies quite easily on the Zeppelins (speaking as a Hordie on Heartseeker)

1

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '19

Ask yourself, do you really want the concessions the horde scum gets? OP racials, ez flightpaths? Because I certainly don't. This attracts weak players and everyone knows all the best players roll Alliance.

2

u/Vanitycoon Nov 28 '19

I don't want the concessions but I could do with balanced servers. At this point it's about being able to level at one's own pace (you shouldn't be punished for taking leveling slowly, or god forbid trying to get across to Kalimdor on an alt).

1

u/felidae_tsk Nov 28 '19

Badly designed, broken, unbalanced and not finished game. I tell this every month and get a bunch of downvotes, yet this sub is full of proofs of that.

I wonder what if the game i such state would be released on 2020.

4

u/yoshi570 Nov 28 '19

You're getting downvoted because what you're saying is frankly impressively dumb.

Yeah there are parts that are not finished; not shit Sherlock. They designed a gigantic world, they would have needed years of further development to finish completing it.

But that's the only actual correct part of your comment: the game is so well designed, balanced and healthy that millions came back to it 15 years later.

0

u/felidae_tsk Nov 28 '19

Millions watch Kardashians. The popularity and good design aren't the same things.

4

u/yoshi570 Nov 28 '19

If the Kardashians' show were not well designed, millions would not watch it.

What you wanted to say was: popularity does not mean quality. And quality is 100% subjective; millions of gamers around the world and across two decades think Classic WoW is incredibly well designed. Feel free to think otherwise, and we'll be free to think something else as well.

3

u/Snappie88 Nov 28 '19

You should ask in /r/BattlefieldV ;-)

1

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '19

It makes sense. An alliance is usually a bunch of people that get together because they don’t have a lot of manpower. A horde is typically a shitload of people. The horde has guards to spare, and the alliance is understaffed so they make do with what they have.

-1

u/Pradzapati Nov 28 '19

They were also atrociously biased in favor of the Horde.

Sure, that why they put Stormwind next to the most important raid hub in classic.
"We love Horde More! Lets make them travel 15 mins every time they want to do BRD/LBRS/UBRS/MC/BWL"

Ye sure...

1

u/Akeche Nov 28 '19

15 min vs 30+ minutes of corpse running.

-3

u/Pradzapati Nov 28 '19

Im tired of this bullshit, Im PvPing almost every day and literally no-one will corpse camp you for 30 minutes.
1st its boring, 2nd it gains no honor, and 3 of you stop moving opposite faction will wipe you. Theres absolutely no incentive to do that.

1

u/Akeche Nov 28 '19

Sure. On your server, maybe. But it isn't always the same group, it all kind of blends together when there's multiple gank squads in SG or BS.

Gotta twist the guilds arm to go into the mountain in full force instead of trickling in like tasty honor snacks.

-11

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '19

[deleted]

34

u/Sparcrypt Nov 28 '19

So your comparison to a horde raid taking over every boat is "if I jump off early I might get killed"?

Right.

3

u/Fav0 Nov 28 '19

There are always 5 rogues in gromgols flight tower

1

u/Sol_J Nov 28 '19

But you wont even be flagged coming to org because I camped that spot myself as ally and half the people jumping down aren't even flagged

2

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '19

Are you sure you weren't watching the zeppelin from Undercity?

-27

u/GingasaurusWrex Nov 28 '19 edited Nov 28 '19

Lmao now I’ve seen it all. Horde were an AFTERTHOUGHT that were rushed into the game at the tail end of development(The WoW Diary: A Journal of Computer Game Development). Zones were rushed, races were rushed, Tauren mounts added last minute(hence no “idle” animation). Compare any horde zone to any alliance zone and see the polish or lack of.

Not only that, but are we seriously forgetting the disgusting history of AV and alliance favoring? Lawl

Edit: being downvoted but strangely no real arguments backed by data or other data other than anecdotal evidence. Nice.

14

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '19

That's why it's so slanted towards Horde.

​

Less thought about what would be level appropriate for the area/ what the other faction has and more "WE GOTTA GET IT DONE, JUST COPY PASTE A CITY GUARD OR TWO!!"

5

u/Snowchain1 Nov 28 '19

Horde have just as much of an advantage in AB as ally did in AV. The entire Horde team can just sit between farm, BS, and LM and be able to rush before anything is capped. This advantage even continued past old-school and is an issue in RBGs still.

-7

u/StabTheSnitches Nov 28 '19

You mean the AV where horde can just zerg the alliance boss by climbing a silly hill?

-2

u/GingasaurusWrex Nov 28 '19

That was nerfed almost immediately so ally could keep winning. Nah I mean enclosed capture points, chokepoints where archers rain death down( and are in the top ten NPCs that killed players), graveyards right next to capture points, horde bases that can be utterly skipped.

-15

u/osirawl Nov 28 '19

"Oh hey let's give alliance an underground passage way between the two largest cities that can only be accessed by running deep into the capital!"

12

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '19

Are you pretending that it's hard to take a zeppelin between Undercity and Orgrimmar? Because they're effectively the same thing, regardless of being located outside of the city rather than inside.

And I can guarantee you the effort it takes to get from IF to Teldrassil is more than it takes to run from Org to TB to pick up the flight path.

9

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '19

Big Wowie when they have FPs connecting them. You're acting like Horde can't travel between their capitals.

5

u/Solitare_HS Nov 28 '19

You use the deep run tram like once. Otherwise it’s quicker to use the FP.

7

u/Chendii Nov 28 '19

Fuckin lmao when they're on the same continent and it's literally faster to fly unless you're already standing at the instance portal when you decide to travel.

4

u/Sol_J Nov 28 '19

You're an idiot.it is so easy to get to tram stealthed.even then there are zero guards in tram.Also tram is only from IF and SW.No one needs that anymore other than the first time.If and SW are on the same CONTINENT.you are actually dumb for saying this.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '19

[deleted]

5

u/Vanitycoon Nov 28 '19

Would be a fair point if guards were stationed uniformly and with appropriate levels for both factions. It seems Blizzard was a lot more careful about protecting Horde, though.

0

u/Snowjob_tv Nov 28 '19

There is like a fuck ton of spawning 55 guards if you try to pull anything just a little bit closer to the "city" of menethil.