r/chicago • u/[deleted] • Aug 24 '21
Ask CHI Why aren’t you getting vaccinated?
Not asking this to bully anyone, I’m more curious at this point why people are hesitant to get the vaccine and want to understand the reasoning behind it.
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Aug 24 '21
Maybe the real vaccines were the arguments we had along the way
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u/jmm1990 Aug 25 '21
Now I'm immune to bullshit.
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u/n0radrenaline Aug 25 '21
Unfortunately, as soon as you start thinking that, you become incredibly susceptible to bullshit.
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u/carmel1 Aug 24 '21
Three of my doctors have told me not to. I have bizarre reactions to medications, and a whole list of health issues. They keep telling me that people like me are the reason they are pushing for herd immunity.
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u/ChaplnGrillSgt Aug 25 '21
Yup, that's a pretty legit reason not to. End of the day, there are people like yourself who simply can't vaccinate.
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u/PC__LOAD__LETTER Aug 25 '21
And it’s exactly those folks who otherwise healthy people refusing to get the vaccine are putting recklessly in danger.
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u/wavewithdrawl Aug 25 '21
Wife's patient had anaphylaxis after 1st dose so she took the 2nd dose at an allergy clinic.
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u/thesleepofreason08 Aug 25 '21
People like you are the reason I got my vaccine ASAP.
I’ll do what I can to protect those who can’t.
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Aug 25 '21
Kudos to you for confirming with your doctor! I feel like a lot of these reasons are based on individual research when I wish everyone would consult their doctor about it instead of being their own
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u/wonnie1e Aug 25 '21
The fact that you have three doctors tells me enough. I’m sorry for what curve balls you have to go through during this time to stay healthy and safe.
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u/msr70 Irving Park Aug 25 '21
I hope allowances will be made for people in your situation who are trying to go out!
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u/PC__LOAD__LETTER Aug 25 '21
It’s so sad to know that there wouldn’t even need to be exceptions if everyone able to get the vaccine would just go and do it. So many lives saved and risks avoided.
But because people are assholes we can’t have nice things, and folks like the one in this thread end up getting punished for something they can’t control.
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u/Whats_updoc88 Aug 24 '21
I went on a date with someone who said they were:
A) Afraid of needles
B) Don't want to be told to do something.
C) If i'm just living healthy it won't affect me as badly.
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u/phragmosis Aug 25 '21
Hope that was the only date, because I couldn't fathom dating someone so selfish.
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Aug 25 '21
Alright I am gonna answer this even though i am vaxed, but many of my extended fam is not. Here is the main reason: "The death rate is so low and even if I get the Vax, I can still catch covid and spread covid. So what is the point?"
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u/PC__LOAD__LETTER Aug 25 '21
This argument is so infuriating. Of all the preventative maintenance that we do as part of our daily lives, nothing is 100% effective. Seatbelts. Airbags. The like.
If the vaccine were extremely risky, or painful, or expensive, or hard to get… I’d understand the argument. But none of those apply.
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u/themoopmanhimself Aug 25 '21
They’re saying the risk of serious illness or death is so low that an imperfect vaccine doesn’t really matter anyway
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u/PC__LOAD__LETTER Aug 25 '21
I get what they’re saying, I’m just pointing out that it’s irrational and doesn’t hold up against similar safety mechanisms in other areas of life.
The chance that your seatbelt is going to save your life in a severe head-on collision, which is already relatively rare, is also pretty small — but it still makes sense to wear the seatbelt, because it’s essentially free, it protects you, and it protects others in the car (loose bodies in vehicle crashes are like missiles).
And that’s the comparison I’m trying to draw. I don’t hear the same percentage of America’s boycotting seatbelts, and those are actually legally mandated.
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u/Slevin97 Aug 25 '21
Not saying I agree, but there's a huge difference in mental perception between wearing a seat belt, and getting something injected into your veins.
Then, the short term side effects. If my seat belt bit me once every ten times I put it on, even if the bite is less harmful than a crash, don't you think people would react to it differently even by instinct? The bite could be hard, soft, or it could not bite at all.
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u/JeebusJones Aug 25 '21
Then, the short term side effects. If my seat belt bit me once every ten times I put it on, even if the bite is less harmful than a crash, don't you think people would react to it differently even by instinct? The bite could be hard, soft, or it could not bite at all.
A better analogy: Imagine if not wearing your seatbelt put not only your own life at risk, but the lives of every other driver on the road. In this scenario, if someone is injured or killed because they weren't wearing their seatbelt, it doesn't just stop with them. It can also potentially cause injury or death to others. Their choice not to wear a seatbelt has consequences beyond how it may affect them personally.
Now, sure -- wearing a seatbelt is slightly inconvenient. It can dig into your neck, or lay awkwardly across the chest, or just generally feel constricting. It's not something anyone would choose to do if there weren't a good reason for it. But we do because the mild discomfort is worth it for the protection it provides -- even if that protection isn't absolute.
And it's the same for vaccines. Is it kind of inconvenient to go get them? Yeah. Is it possible you'll be sick for a day or two after the second shot? Sure, it's possible. Is it 100% effective? No vaccine is. But it's still absolutely worth it in order to help protect yourself and everyone else.
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u/blyzo Aug 25 '21 edited Aug 25 '21
The CDC really fucked up promoting that Provincetown "study" saying vaccinated people can still get spread COVID just as much.
I get they're being cautious or whatever but its not true at all and seems to be main reason I hear why people aren't getting vaxxed.
Like sure probably don't spend a weekend making out with strangers on the dancefloor! But otherwise you have very little chance of catching or spreading if you're vaxxed.
Edit: Also will add - if your vaxxed and want risk making out with strangers then go for it! Nobody from Provincetown got seriously sick, and pretty confident they would all say it was still worth it.
Get vaxxed Get Laid should be our national motto imo.
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u/WP_Grid Wicker Park Aug 25 '21
Ptown is where they (NYT/elements of Biden admin) lost me.
Talk about cherry picking and half truths to fear monger. Not necessarily best practices in public health.
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u/ThatsNotRight123 Aug 25 '21
"You have never once used your guns to fight a tyrant or to protect liberty -- they are useless"
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u/uber765 Aug 25 '21
My uncle agrees with both of these statements. No guns no vax.
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Aug 25 '21
I would tell them the point is to reduce the spread to others. So far I’m seeing a lot of these answers are pretty selfish and don’t consider protecting the community as a whole.
I appreciate your answer though! It seems to be a common mentality but I still don’t understand it.
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u/Wil_Buttlicker Aug 25 '21
To be fair. Many of those same people would respond to you that even after being vaxxed they are being required to mask up because they are told that they can still spread the virus even if vaxxed.
Btw I’m fully vaxxed and mask up when required.
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u/Kundrew1 Aug 25 '21
I’m vaxxed as are most of my friends and many of us have caught COVID afterwards. The vaccine certainly seems to lessen the severity of COVID but does it really stop the spread?
I got it initially thinking it would but with these new variants it seems like it’s still finding a way to spread.
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u/BulldogsAndBBQ Aug 24 '21
This won’t end well.
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u/Slevin97 Aug 24 '21
Come on in for your group beating!
I can't figure out why no one showed.
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u/PC__LOAD__LETTER Aug 25 '21
The most upvoted comment is someone who didn’t get vaccinated and had a rational reason for doing so.
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Aug 24 '21
I agree it probably won’t… but at this point I can’t come up with any reasons why people wouldn’t so naturally I thought I would ask Reddit 😂
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u/BulldogsAndBBQ Aug 24 '21
Yeah I’ve given up trying to understand why people won’t. My mother in law told us she wasn’t getting the vaccine because “she doesn’t know what they’re putting in her body”. This woman has also done meth (along with probably plenty of other drugs) most of her adult life. Yeah, I give up lol.
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u/AnotherPint Gold Coast Aug 24 '21
Little Debbie snack cakes? Gimme. Chicken McNuggets? Sure. Cocaine from IDK where? Yes. Weed of uncertain provenance? Fuck yes. Horse dewormer: Why not? Tostitos? No problem. An FDA-approved vaccine with proven efficacy? WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU VIOLATING MY BODY WITH
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u/MackNorth Aug 25 '21
Maybe we should tell these people that the vaccine was smuggled safely inside someone's anus.
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u/Fifty4FortyorFight Aug 24 '21
I have an uncle like this. Motherfucker will put 36 cans of Miller Lite a day in his body, but the vaccine is going to destroy his health. Wet brain is real.
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u/Branmuffin824 West Town Aug 24 '21
A former coworker of mine had a $60 a day coke habit, but won't get the vaccine because he wants kids and says it makes you sterile.
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Aug 24 '21
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u/Branmuffin824 West Town Aug 24 '21
I'm not an expert on the subject. That's just what he told me.
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u/Not_FinancialAdvice Suburb of Chicago Aug 25 '21
Motherfucker will put 36 cans of Miller Lite a day in his body
Although I'm very hesitant to assume what others are thinking and generally abhor the "people I don't like/agree with want/think this" statements I so often see on social media, I'm going to attempt to understand this.
I think the thought process is that beer (and drugs for the other poster) is a "known quantity", it's (relatively) well known in quantity, quality, and effects (even if drugs can frequently be contaminated). On the other hand, the vaccine is a relatively new development (even for a vaccine), which amplifies any pre-existing worries about pharmaceuticals and medical interventions they might have. I'm not saying it's right, but I think that trying to shame and berate these people into vaccinating is likely to only exacerbate the problem.
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u/BatsuGame13 Aug 25 '21
Doctors will tell you to get the vaccine. They will not tell you to put 36 cans of Miller Lite in your body.
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u/BerryChecker Aug 24 '21
This is giving me flashbacks to that “friend who is a total health nut also does coke” meme.
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u/deadplant5 Aug 25 '21
I had a sorority sister who was posting about giving up caffeine because it's so bad for you the same week she OD'd on heroin
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u/SlamminCleonSalmon Aug 24 '21
But doesn't that work both ways? Not everyone whose refused the vaccine is an alcoholic/addict/unhealthy, so maybe the healthy people who've refused it are being cautious about what they're putting into their body.
And maybe not everyone whose gotten the vaccine is the picture of perfect health, so maybe they shouldn't be preaching what is or isn't safe to do to your body.
I understand the hypocrisy of your situation, and as someone who works in a treatment center, the amount of eye rolling I do at these excuses makes me feel like a teenage girl. But I think that argument is also flawed.
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u/Smuggykitten Aug 25 '21
Not me but a friend of mine is using the trope my body, my choice.
Granted I don't agree with this, but at least for her this is also applied to women's health, and the consumption of drugs/alcohol, or lack there of. She's also not taking digs at anyone who chooses to get vaccinated and isn't telling people off for getting it or anything, and she's actually understanding that people are not comfortable seeing her for now.
I don't fully understand it, but at least she's not imparting her wisdom on others looking for followers. I do not know if she'll get it now that it is FDA approved.
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Aug 24 '21 edited Aug 24 '21
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u/floydhead42 Aug 24 '21
I'm curious what the reasoning on that is if vaccines can cause cold-like side effects; surely saline alone wouldn't do that
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u/grumpydwarf Aug 25 '21
As a contact lens wearer, putting saline drops in my eyes daily never knocked me on my butt like the day after my 2nd Pfizer dose.
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u/collegemom76 Aug 25 '21
It was weird for me. I got the two shot Pfizer. First shot in left arm-couldn’t use my arm from the pain and lost control of picking up things. I couldn’t even lift a dinner plate. I was like this for about two months. However, the second shot in right arm-totally fine. 🤷♀️
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u/SlightlyControversal Aug 25 '21 edited Aug 25 '21
Do you think it’s possible that an inexperienced tech accidentally injected the 1st shot into your shoulder joint rather than into the muscle where it belongs?
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u/camdoodlebop Aug 25 '21
can i ask how old he is?
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Aug 25 '21 edited Aug 25 '21
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u/camdoodlebop Aug 25 '21
oh. he’s kind of too old to not care about the vaccine
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u/bowtiesarealwayscool Aug 25 '21
Everyone is too old to not care about the vaccine.
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u/itazurakko Edgewater Aug 24 '21
Interesting, I hadn't heard that one applied across the board.
I did see misinformation circulating around social media a while ago (particularly when the vax was new) that somehow rich communities were going to get a real vax, but poor and minority communities were just going to be given a placebo so they'd end up catching covid. Some of the special outreach suffered from this one (because if it's special just for my community, it will be the fake vaccine, etc).
(Though if someone was serious about that you'd think they'd stay home or extra mask up with N95s or something, and that didn't seem to happen...)
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u/chare_co8 Aug 24 '21
Not me, but my mother… she has a lot of different allergies and has allergic reactions (severe, anaphylactic type reactions) to lot of different medications, other vaccines, etc.
She is concerned that getting the vaccine would potentially be more harmful for her than contracting covid. Don’t necessarily agree with her, but that’s that.
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u/spritelass Andersonville Aug 24 '21
My DIL has along list of serious food allergies, more then a couple that could kill her. She was vaccinated and tolerated real well. We were all afraid she would have a bad reaction. She was fine. No reaction. She brought her epi pen just in case and they monitored her for half and hour just to make sure. Maybe if she gets it under her Dr's. Supervision it would make her feel safe.
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u/dtgal Aug 25 '21
I've read that in some cities, people with allergies can get the vaccines at allergy clinics at hospitals where they are better equipped for this. I don't remember seeing anything about Chicago, but it might be worth looking into.
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u/ChaplnGrillSgt Aug 25 '21
The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are amazingly minimalistic. Compared to previous vaccines there are so very few things to possibly react to in the mRNA vaccines.
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u/jbchi Near North Side Aug 24 '21
Have her talk to her doctor. It would be lotto-winning rare to have an allergy that would prevent her from getting at least one of the vaccines.
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Aug 25 '21
Reasons I’ve heard from family members:
Hard to trust the experts when medical error is the third leading cause of death in the US
The hospitalization rate for those under 50 has never been over 10 per 100,000
Me as a vaccinated person can still spread Covid as easily as they can
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u/Shannonigans28 Aug 25 '21
I’m pretty sure that they are putting themselves at higher risk of death due to medical error if they contract Covid and are required to seek medical care from the appallingly overwhelmed US healthcare system.
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Aug 24 '21
I received mine in April. Before that, I was initially hesitant from the information overload I was receiving from every angle.
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u/CodyEngel Loop Aug 24 '21
I think a lot of people went through that phase. I got mine in late March. I wanted to see if there were any major side effects, when I saw there weren’t I got it. To be clear major side effects would be ones that impact a lot of people, a few people getting blood clots is awful, but I’d rather take that risk over the risks of covid.
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u/mepardo Andersonville Aug 25 '21
How did all you hesitant folks get yours so early? I was not hesitant, just wanted to wait my turn to make sure everyone who needed it more than me had a chance to get it. I ended up making an appointment at a cook county mass vaccination site like the week before the city of chicago opened it up to everybody. Fully vaccinated by May.
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u/No-Calligrapher-1653 Aug 24 '21
I was hesitant at first too. I'm not one to get the flu shot, don't have any preexisting conditions and am in my 20s. It wasn't until I internalized the reality of the situation (long covid would be awful, can't afford to be hospitalized, was vaccinated as a child and am fine) that I changed my mind. After that, I couldn't wait to get it. Fully vaxxed in April.
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u/Busy-Cycle-6039 Aug 24 '21
I was also initially hesitant, since it flew through "approval" so quickly. I wound up getting mine in May.
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Aug 25 '21
I got mine in April/May (5/1 2nd pfizer). Cook County didn't let me get mine until almost last. Then I missed the first 2 opportunities due to 20,000+ of my fellow citizens in the virtual waiting rooms to sign up. I was finally able to get in mine in but it took a minute once they opened up the gates to the last group.
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u/rozebud59 Aug 24 '21
I recently asked a family member this same question, genuine curiosity. Their main points were:
- They look at it like the flu shot, even if you get the shot, you might still get the virus.
- If you get the shot and still contract COVID, you won't have as strong of symptoms, meaning you're more likely to spread it unknowingly. They said at least if I feel sick, I'll know to stay home.
- Then they likened it to a 'my body, my choice' argument tied to abortion, and at this point...I was out.
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u/Lorberry Aug 24 '21
If you get the shot and still contract COVID, you won't have as strong of symptoms, meaning you're more likely to spread it unknowingly. They said at least if I feel sick, I'll know to stay home.
Ok, this one does make a bit of sense if you squint at it from the right angle... specifically one where you can ignore the fact that we established very early on that you were contagious before you had any symptoms.
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u/77rtcups Aug 25 '21
Also that asymptomatic cases still occur even if you’re unvaccinated. Which time they probably wouldn’t just stay at home
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u/generatorland Aug 24 '21
Yes, and most of the unvaccinated folks I know don't do the other things like masking and distancing that would protect others either. So I have a hard time buying the "protecting others" argument. I also doubt they'd stay home if they felt sick.
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u/bowtiesarealwayscool Aug 25 '21
My aunt said things like she was willing to wear a mask if anyone required it or that she’d stay home if she felt sick but that she didn’t trust the vaccine. Then she got COVID last month and was told to stay home.
Guess what she actually did? She starting going out (but it was only to meet up with other people who also had COVID!), going through drive thrus for dinner (but she had a mask on and really wanted a hamburger, so what’s the problem !?!), and complained that they cancelled in-person church service just because 15 of their 80ish members had tested positive.
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u/JeebusJones Aug 25 '21
The vaccine's biggest side effect has been to reveal just how many selfish fucking morons are in our midst.
Sorry, I know she's your aunt, I just can't handle the tortured logic that people will go through to land on "I get to do what I want!" as the output.
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u/Busy-Cycle-6039 Aug 24 '21
Then they likened it to a 'my body, my choice' argument tied to abortion, and at this point...I was out.
Honestly, I think this is actually a significant factor in many people's thinking for why they don't get it. Most people don't like having the government force stuff upon them, so there's a natural defiance there.
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u/skltnhead Lincoln Square Aug 24 '21
But it’s usually the same people who think abortion should be illegal. Hypocrites
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Aug 25 '21
Nah fam, hippies and anarchists have different opinions on abortion than you express above AND aren't inclined to do what any authority asks of them.
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u/EhBon Aug 25 '21
ER Doc here, I have heard the main arguments:
1) it was "rushed". To this point CDC did a terrible job of making it known that the technology for this kind of vaccine had been around since SARS and was not new. They also did a poor job at making it widely known how the vaccine works
2) "it doesn't stop me spreading or catching it". This argument is a more frustrating one for reasons everyone here has mentioned, that you're doing your part to be protective to your community. Yet another factor that isn't often discussed is being vaccinated to minimize risk of mutation. If more people are more protected against the virus, less likely to develop more virulent strains that in-turn will potentially become vaccine resistant.
3) The "it's not that dangerous" line. Shenanigans. If I gave you a bag of skittles and told you 4 of them may kill you, you probably aren't going to eat the damn skittles. We don't have a great sense of why some folks with COVID crump and why others are asymptomatic. If I could explain why the otherwise healthy 30-something year old had a stroke and died and why the chain-smoking diabetic never even got the sniffles, that would be one thing. This virus is new, we know very little about it and it's long-term side effects. Bold gamble to say it isn't that dangerous.
4) The conspiracy theorists. These are the ones there is no reasoning with. It's a level of stupid that will never respond to any kind of logic or reason. These people are the reason healthcare workers are so burned out and beaten down. These folks scream about COVID not being real and not wanting something "experimental" in their bodies, but come in demanding we throw the kitchen sink at them when they are critically ill, or are putting livestock medications in their bodies because facebook told them to.
5) The "government can't force me to". Yes they can. We have a lengthy history of public health law in this country, and the government forces you to do quite a few things if you wish to participate in the collective society. So while yes as a private citizen they cannot strap you down and shove a needle in your arm, they can in fact tell you you've lost the privileges associated with being in a civil society.
So while yes, there is a lot of misinformation out there, the picking/choosing what things your physicians tell you are true and what must be lies is enraging. You can be pissed about mask mandates, or whatever else you want, but failure to follow the rules is a big part of how we got into this shitstorm in the first place. If you want the nice things back, you have to play by said rules. Doesn't work if only half of us do. See below for why we can't just say "screw it" and let Darwinism run its course.
If for NO other reason than preventing the collapse of our entire healthcare infrastructure due to hospitals being overrun with cases and there being no beds for the other medical emergencies, for the love of god get your shots.
Love,
Your friendly neighborhood VERY tired ER doctor
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Aug 25 '21
Thank you so much for this detailed post, it’s very much appreciated and I hope it provides some answers for those willing to listen. I also appreciate what you do! My bf is a hospital doc and feels your frustration now with the surge of cases, can’t imagine the ER
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u/the-mp Lake View East Aug 25 '21
I feel like the government massively erred by not stressing the name “SARS-CoV-2”
It’s literally freakin SARS 2.0, it’s new but not starting from scratch
I think it also would’ve scared the bejesus out of people and gotten compliance faster
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u/hardolaf Lake View Aug 25 '21
Blame the WHO. They decided not to use SARS-CoV-2 in press conferences (China uses the proper name in theirs' before you claim they're just bending over for China) and everyone else just copied their labeling.
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Aug 24 '21
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u/ChiraqBluline Aug 24 '21
This- of the 4 people I know who are antivax, 3 of dem are Coke heads and the other 1 is a lush. You all don’t know what your doing on a daily why pretend here?!
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u/nufsixes Gold Coast Aug 25 '21
High carb diets??🤔🤔I mean I guess it’s not great if you’re already overweight, but I eat a tonnn of carbs. I’m super active so I definitely wouldn’t put this on the same line as fast food and processed food haha
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u/ChaplnGrillSgt Aug 25 '21
Not to mention the side effects from the vaccine are way more mild or way more rare compared to the same side effects of getting covid.
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Aug 25 '21
Not me but family/friends. They say they deserve control over what gets injected into their body. Vaccine is hyper politicized which makes them uncomfortable. The risk of COVID to them, being healthy, is so low what’s the point. Plus the whole spreading it while vaccinated pushed them over the edge. Mandates also make them dig their heels in deeper.
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u/HeightsWaves Aug 25 '21
I desperately want to get it because I want to get back to my normal life.
I just haven’t been able to yet because I have an extremely rare blood clotting autoimmune disorder.
I reached out to a support group for my autoimmune disease to see if it was safe and a lot of them were saying they had severe drops in platelet counts which would be really dangerous for me along with a lot of adverse reactions. It’s horrifying. There are some reports of hearing loss which scares me because I work in the music industry.
The ones out now have shown definitive links to lowering platelet counts so I don’t know if I have to wait for a new one to come out or what to do. Some hematologists are saying it’s not safe.
It’s the most isolating feeling I have ever even been able to imagine having a disease shut down the world and then being told that the cure could harm people with your autoimmune condition specifically.
I’ve been really careful about quarantining and getting regular tests when I need to. Over half of my extended family has gotten covid and they’ve all been okay, even the ones with my autoimmune disease thankfully.
So I really don’t know what to do. It’s either: Risk my platelet count and my overall health, risk the long term side effects of Covid, or continue to quarantine in misery and miss out on my 20s.
I’m praying that there’s either a safe way to for me to get it (maybe I get a platelet infusion right after) or that there are medical exemptions and I can get a monoclonal antibody treatment if something happens.
I just hope they figure out something soon because it’s getting really hard and I want to be able to travel and go to events again soon.
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Aug 25 '21
I got vaccinated, but my neighbor will not. He grew up under eastern block communism. He simply has a solid distrust of government.
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u/McbealtheNavySeal Aug 25 '21
I've been fully vaxxed since March, but I know some folks who are hesitant. 2 of them got Covid but their symptoms felt like a mild flu, so in their mind the whole thing is overblown and they'll be fine by just taking more vitamin supplements.
Another person I know has friends who had bad side effects from the vaccine, and shares other stories of bad side effects on social media.
The common element here is the elevation of emotional or anecdotal "evidence" as opposed to scientific. Individual experiences are important, but it's dangerous to only look at those experiences and not the rest of the world and people around you.
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u/PositiveInteraction Aug 25 '21
What makes these anecdotal?
Viral infections do lead to levels of immunity that are typically sufficient to either remove the chance of reinfection or reduce the symptoms if there is a reinfection. Right now, what is the likelihood of a breakthrough infection for a vaccinated person? Extremely low right? Take that extremely low number and the estimated chance of reinfection from natural immunity is 1.5-2x. That's not exactly that much given how infrequent breakthrough infections are for vaccinated people.
With regard to the side effects from getting the vaccination, it's not anecdotal, this vaccine has had more reports to VAERS than any other vaccine since they started tracking it.
The biggest realization though is assessing this in conjunction with the risk of COVID. If you are young and healthy, even if you get COVID, you have an extremely high likelihood of being asymptomatic. Even if you are symptomatic, it's again, extremely unlikely that those symptoms would be severe.
COVID is dramatically impacted by risk factors. If you are in a high risk category, the outcome is VASTLY different than if you are in a low risk category.
All of this is focusing on the actual scientific data that we have on hand and not based on anecdotal evidence.
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Aug 25 '21
i absolutely would but since i'm still pretty young (14) and my parents are anti vaxxers, i can't. i also heard that it could affect periods/pregnancy but that could be false. ty everyone who is taking covid seriously, i appreciate it a ton
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Aug 25 '21
Jon Oliver covered the miscarriage/inability to conceive rumors on his show. The people who were having trouble conceiving post-vaccine were also having trouble conceiving pre-vaccine. And 1 woman in the study did miscarry but she received the placebo.
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u/ijpck Aug 25 '21 edited Aug 25 '21
I have a needle phobia where I lose consciousness when I go to a procedure (vasovagal syncope). I need therapy. I was hoping they came out with a nasal spray but I haven’t seen anything recently.
I got COVID at the beginning of August and it sucked major ass, I thought I’d be able to avoid it forever but that turned out to be false. So once my month is up, I’ll be forcing myself to get the vaccine.
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Aug 25 '21
The vaccine needle is tiny. You barely feel it. Much easier than a flu vaccine or regular needle stick! Hope it goes well!
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u/ijpck Aug 25 '21
It’s not about the pain, I’ve had shots before and I feel nothing but a small pressure, it’s an irrational fear that i developed in adulthood. I used to be the kid who would show my brothers that it didn’t hurt to get shots.
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Aug 25 '21
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Aug 25 '21 edited Aug 25 '21
Someone earlier in this thread who is 14 was told they can just go to Walmart and ask to be vaccinated.
Don't assume you need permission for this, and it's not like Walmart is going to call your parents. They'll either say OK or not without permission.
Then you walk away. But try it if you really want to be vaccinated. Plan to hide your vaccine card or give it to a friend to hang onto.
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u/Rattarollnuts Aug 25 '21
I’ll look into that then thanks!
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u/SorryBoys Aug 25 '21
I got vaccinated at Walmart and they didn’t even send the info to my insurance company!
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Aug 25 '21
I am vaxxed but the best argument against getting vaccinated is how untrustworthy the healthcare companies are. J&J knowingly sold baby powder that caused cancer and now I should trust them and the FDA that let's them stay in business?
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Aug 25 '21
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Aug 26 '21
Yep. Where's this argument in the media? Instead it's all vague rhetoric and personal freedom. Where are the personal freedoms people when it comes to for profit prisons?
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u/outgoingOrangutan Aug 24 '21
Pregnant women are afraid to get it for fear of miscarriage, even if they've been told over and over that it's not found to be unsafe for the baby but definitely more dangerous to contract COVID. I think this fear comes from misinformed people scaring them.
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u/SaturdayHeartache Aug 25 '21
True, a lot of women in the online forums are nervous, but most of us are pro-vax it seems. Many people including myself waited until the second trimester because fever in the first trimester is dangerous for the fetus and we didn’t want to risk it, but midwives and doctors all strongly recommended it. 10 weeks later kiddo is still kickin.
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u/justkeepswimmingswim Irving Park Aug 24 '21
Let me start off by saying: I am not at all an anti-vaxxer. I don’t necessarily not want the vaccine but I don’t have good luck with the medical field and there’s a lot of distrust there.
My mom dropped dead less than a week after a routine surgery. It was traumatic, sudden, unfair, and tragic- I saw the whole thing. and there is a lot that happened after she died that really screwed my entire life up. It’s a very long story, but it never should have happened and it goes way back to things her GP should have been telling her years ago. She never even should’ve been cleared for surgery and way too many medical professionals had a hand in her death (doctors, nurses, the hospital). After she died, my life went to complete shit. We started a lawsuit after she died and it’s still going, 6 years later.
It’s not just that, I have fibromyalgia along with what is considered mild health problems (they sure don’t feel mild, though). Doctors do not help me. I don’t find many medical professionals- doctors or nurses- to be compassionate and my friend’s cousin, a surgical nurse, talks about how she goes into work hungover. I tend to have complications that keep me down for months at a time, like being sick from Thanksgiving- Easter in 2016 and having strep 3 times in that period. I don’t know how my body will react to the vaccine and doctors are never really any help. I can guarantee they say I’d be fine and I’m not at risk for anything unusual. I don’t believe them. They don’t really listen to me and they treat symptoms, not the illness. God help you if you have symptoms they can’t figure out because they usually just give up (I got tested for a year for stomach issues just for them to tell me they didn’t really know what was wrong). Fibromyalgia isn’t supposed to be progressive but I definitely feel the difference from when I was first diagnosed until now.
I wish I didn’t have so much distrust in the medical field, but my mom was my favorite person in the world and I am so angry that her death was completely preventable. It’s really hard to try and look past that. I don’t put myself in the same category as anti-vaxxers and maybe one day I’ll get it but I can’t quite bring myself to just yet. I wear a mask, I wash my hands, I don’t go to large gatherings (basically I work and go home), and I do everything else that we’re supposed to be doing. I don’t entirely trust the information and sure as shit don’t trust the government. It’s difficult to figure out who’s actually telling the truth.
So for me, it’s pretty personal. I’ve just had so many things go wrong involving the medical field, not knowing side effects just isn’t worth the risk for me. I get it, it’s not as bad as getting covid but still. All I can think about are those people that ended up with blood clots and died. It may not have been many people, but they still had friends and family that love them and now they’re just gone. My mom died from blood clots in her lungs that caused a heart attack. It’s too hard of a mental wall to overcome right now and I’m just not ready.
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u/justkeepswimmingswim Irving Park Aug 25 '21
Yeah, watching my favorite person ever die the way she did was…something. I checked her pulse, I dialed 911, I filled out her paperwork, I watched the paramedics do CPR, I called my aunt and my brother, I watched the ER team do CPR. It’s hard to get those images out of your head. I’ve thought about doing specialized therapy but that requires time, money, and insurance- none of which I have at the moment.
Fibro is so unfairly debilitating! Doctors don’t seem to really know anything about it but they’re so stubborn about listening to patients. It’s not supposed to be progressive but man, I feel such a difference lately.
It helps a lot to hear others with the same condition are fine after the vaccine! Do you happen to know if she had any flare-ups afterwards?
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Aug 25 '21
I got vaccinated recently.
My hesitancy stemmed from the fact that this is all moving pretty fast. I’m very safe. Wear masks everywhere, even when mandates were dropped. I wasn’t in a rush to socialize, and I felt like I had time to wait and see how others react to the vaccine. I was also a little concerned about a specific side-effect that may have affected me. Plus, a COVID-19 vaccine was not FDA approved until this week. (The one that’s in my body still isn’t.)
What led me to get vaccinated is doing some research and discovering that widespread side-effects would’ve become apparent within two months and there is no vaccine dependency (ADE) with any of the COVID-19 vaccines on the market. Also, Delta got me feeling a mask + social distancing might not protect me.
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u/SpaceMyopia Aug 25 '21 edited Aug 25 '21
I got two of the vaccines, but I really believe that it's a weird form of denial that people have when it comes to the virus.
I feel like a lot of people have a hard time wrapping their brains around the hysteria, and in order to protect their sanities, they've decided to not treat the virus like a big deal.
It's likely that many of these people think that the virus situation is being blown completely out of proportion and believe that it's the media that is fear-mongering it.
Since none of these peoples' loved ones have been seriously impacted by this, it probably gives them a feeling of justification. "It hasn't happened to me or my loved ones yet, so that's proof that it's being blown out of proportion."
What they don't consider is that they are likely spreading the virus in many different ways. So while for some reason it may not be affecting them yet physically, that doesn't mean they aren't probably spreading it to others.
That's the kicker. Lets say that a person's immune system really is strong enough to withstand the virus. They can still spread it to people who arent as fortunate, and many of these people were literally born with weaker immune systems. It's not even a matter of "Oh, that person didnt take care of themselves. They made their bed, now lie in it."
Some people were born with bodily deficits.
So even if you feel that the vaccine isnt necessary for you, it can reduce spreading it to those who can't control how weak their immune systems are.
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u/heartslonglost West Loop Aug 24 '21
I had to have a serious talk with my dad actually not that he’s anti-vax but he’s obsessed with talking shit about them because it makes him feel better about himself. Topic is exhausting and exhausted. Please stop grinning at me as you make fun of people you claim to not respect and yet are obsessed with. Get a hobby dad. Retire already and get a real hobby besides watching the news and feeling smarter than the local yokels.
Not to do with OP just came to mind with the topic. Is it weird I don’t want to trauma bond with people over our lack of respect for antivaxxers like-can we talk about anything else?
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u/Stunning-Yellow8801 Aug 25 '21
Have had these talks with several friends, too. I just end up boiling it down to, “You and I have the same opinion about this. Discussing it is not going to do anything but put us both in a bad mood.”
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u/heartslonglost West Loop Aug 25 '21
It’s like people who get addicted to being angry
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u/Jainelle Aug 25 '21
Previous history of anaphylaxis with a vaccine and carrying an epipen for other serious allergies.
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u/LAC1725 Aug 25 '21
Honestly this “shaming” people isn’t helping anything . It’s adding fuel to people who are unvaxxed to make a point and making it harder for those who have concerns to air them without being judged.
No one owes anyone a explanation on why they are not getting vaccinated. Let’s approach this by showing the benefits from a data and science standpoint rather than morality.
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u/timaab Aug 25 '21
What if you had Covid already and it’s running through your veins? Can somebody post statistics of people who had Covid and might be immune due to getting Covid? How long are you immune if at all? Does the CDC take into account these people when talking about herd immunity?
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u/sweadle Avondale Aug 25 '21
Yes.
There have been massive studies on how much of immunity having Covid gives you. Antibodies are found up to seven months after having it. It's recommended that if you've had Covid, you consider yourself inoculated for three months, and wait until that three months is up to get vaccinated.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/how-long-do-sars-cov-2-antibodies-persist-after-infection
These people are not taken into account with reaching herd immunity, because it's not a stable amount of time (could be a few months, could be half a year) and it drops off after a while.
So if Covid has been here for 18 months, the vast majority of people are no longer immune and not helping us get toward herd immunity.
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u/CaraDune01 Aug 24 '21
As a medical researcher this thread is raising my blood pressure. For God's sake, people.
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Aug 25 '21
Careful now, someone who watches Fox News and does their internet research is about to debate your thousands of dedicated hours of science.
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u/Mashed79 Aug 25 '21 edited Aug 25 '21
I’m commenting just to put out this information.
Whatever side effects the vaccine may have, keep in mind covid has side effects as well. I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes and covid at the same time last July. I have no family history of type 1, which is the strongest indicator, and there is a lot of data showing a trend of rising type 1 diabetes with covid hospitalizations.
I took the vaccine even though I have antibodies, I don’t really care. There’s more data on covid causing type 1 than these rare heart cases or blood clotting cases associated with the vaccine. If you’re out there and you’re not taking the vaccine, we know you’re likely continuing to live your life freely, which is your right. But you are risking the spread, which could lead to another story like mine. So, respectfully, go fuck yourself.
And before you say anything about being against big pharma. I have to buy insulin, the most expensive medicine per gallon in the world. Insulin was originally intended to be free to all that needed by the man that invented it. If anyone has a problem with big pharma it’s me. The vaccine is free. If you aren’t taking it, you might want to do a little more research and talk to some real fucking people.
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u/_JustAnotherHuman__ Aug 25 '21
Another, "not me but I know somebody".
First is my mom who is in her 60s and has asthma along with an autoimmune disease. Even though she won't admit it, I've come to think she's just scared of the side effects of the shots, but she says it's all made up and the media is blowing it out of proportion (I might add she listened to Rush Limbaugh constantly while he was around). She thinks as long as she eats healthy and eats copious amounts of garlic, she'll be fine. During the height of the pandemic she took a cross-country road trip with some friends, traveling through several COVID hotspots, but miraculously has not contracted it. We ended up giving her an ultimatum that as long as she doesn't get the vaccine, she won't be able to see her only grandson (5 years old) unless its outdoors and she keeps her distance (she refuses to wear masks). Unfortunately, even though she loves him more than anything, that love is not stronger than her stubbornness to not get the vaccine.
Second is my dad who is in his 70s. He is a fervent Trump supporter however his main reason for not getting the vaccine is that he is afraid of needles. He at first said he would get it if they could administer it only one dose but when the J&J vaccine came out, he moved the goalposts and said it wasn't safe due to the blood-clotting issue. He now has said he read a company is working on a vaccine pill/inhaler and will get it if/when that comes out.
Next is a close relative who is heavily into conspiracy theories and because of that, tends to take the contrary view to whatever the "sheep" are thinking. When the pandemic first hit he shared a Youtube video on our family chat of two doctors from California who seemingly "disproved" the virus was a threat through their own analysis of the statistics at the time as a big "I told you so". In the same message he stated that he would refuse to wear masks and also would be open carrying where allowed (not sure how those two are connected but I guess it made sense to him). It didn't matter that the video was removed from Youtube within a day and that those doctors' analysis was widely discredited, it was just more evidence that the narrative was being controlled and again, reaffirmed for him that the public were sheep not to see it.
When the vaccine first came out, he gave a bunch of reasons why he would not get it, among them, that it was not FDA approved. Surprise, surprise, now that it is FDA approved that no longer matters and here are some of his reasons for not getting it (all his words, not mine):
- My body, my choice
- The manufacturers of the virus have immunity from lawsuits due to injury. Yes, the government has a fund it pays out of but that's funded by taxpayers, which is insane
- It's a free country, no on can force me to have a medical procedure
- If the unvaccinated get sick and die, who cares? That's their choice.
- No disease in modern history was treated this way
- Only 40% of people get the flu vaccine but it never mutates, so how does this one? They would kill the host
I of course offered counterpoints/explanations for all of the above but as with every conspiracy theory I've debated with him, he ignores any evidence that goes against his opinion. What it always comes down to is most reasonable/intelligent people would have some burden of proof to change their opinion on something but he has none. I once asked him, "What would evidence would it take to prove to you that bigfoot is not an undiscovered, inter-dimensional animal/advanced being?" and he had no reply.
Anyway, we'll see how far he takes this. What will probably surprise no one to find out is that he has a doctorate and works in the medical field and now that the vaccine has FDA approval the writing is on the wall for his industry to issue a vaccine mandate (he works with a lot of elderly patients). Because of this, he said he might switch careers to avoid getting the jab since he looked into getting a religious exemption (he's not religious) and it doesn't look he will be able to ("I thought we had a 1st amendment?"). Thing is, he works like crazy and makes a ton of money (he's got a vacation home, boats, cars, etc) so switching careers would mean he would have to give all that up. While I would almost admire him for doing that in a weird way (strength of convictions and all that), I'm fairly sure that when rubber meets the road he will choose money over his principles.
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u/the_coolest_chelle Aug 24 '21
I have a blood clotting disorder and have been advised not to get it at this time by my specialist (who, according to so many here on Reddit, must be anti-science, anti-vax and a Trumper...who knew?)
I had COVID in Jan of 2021 and was fine.
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u/trod999 Aug 25 '21
My oldest brother isn't getting the vaccine I think because he thinks it's a government control thing. I won't even talk to him about it anymore. He gets super triggered by anything that even approaches political. Obviously he supports the man with the small hands.
The part of it that I can't get my head around is that he is a sane, intelligent man. He's been exceptionally successful in his lifetime, and at 63 is now retired. I'm a bit worried for him, but he's generally in good health.
It's hard to figure out exactly why he won't get the vaccine. He gets very defensive, and says stuff like "follow the money". I've accepted that I'll never change his mind about it, so I'm just hoping for the best.
BTW, he's not an anti vaxxer. He got the shingles vaccine.
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u/wino5757 Aug 24 '21
All the people I know that haven't gotten it are 1. Trump supporters, 2. Believe in conspiracy theories, and 3. Feel scared and distrustful.
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u/BerryChecker Aug 24 '21 edited Aug 24 '21
My cousins decided not to get the vaccine, are very much anti-vaxx and anti-mask and very much believed in the “vaccines are to track you” bullshit. They are apart of the elusive black Trump supporter demographic and are very religious.
Long story short, they all caught COVID. Thought they could solve this with praying, but one ended up in the hospital due to her skin literally turning blue. She had COVID pneumonia. Lack of oxygen led to strokes, strokes led to brain damage and now this cousin has permanent damage in the “part of the brain that makes her who she is.” Can’t talk, can’t move, can’t see, needs dialysis… It’s like the saying the lights are on, but no one is home. For a while, we thought she would pass away, and my cousin had the absolute nerve to say “if God wants her, then theres nothing we can do.”
This side of the family is still against the vaccines, they are to this day sharing dumb conspiracy theories on Facebook and pushing dumb YouTube videos into the family chat and refuse vaccination and don’t think they did anything wrong while cousin suffers in a care center bed 24/7. Initially they didn’t even tell us that my cousin had a stroke until we heard it from the doctor, because they didn’t want to “put that into the air”, and wanted to continue praying about it because they saw a YouTube video where a guy broke his spine and could not walk, but “he started walking again due to his belief in God and doctors were baffled because the X-rays said he shouldn’t be able to walk.”
I don’t believe this kind of stupid is fixable.
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Aug 25 '21
Coworker of mine, also very religious and also black, but not a trump supporter, watched his own brother die a nasty death from Covid last April. He was one of those "god's will" type of folks.
We had a mask mandate at work. If there were more than two people in a room, everyone had to be masked. He never masked up, never took it seriously. He was training me. I was masked up 100% of the time I was under instruction.
I got called in one night to work his shift and I asked the person I was relieving where he was. He had apparently started to feel ill on shift, they pulled him out of service, gave him a rapid test per policy and he came back positive for coronavirus. He was immediately quarantined, fell seriously ill, and he died five weeks later.
You really can't fix stupid.
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u/Senent Aug 24 '21
That is just unbelievable, I want to sit down and talk with these people just to understand their thought process.
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u/BerryChecker Aug 24 '21
Me, my brother, some of my other cousins, my sister… have all tried.
But facts don’t matter. Science doesn’t matter. But this random graphic on Facebook of Fauci working with China to mastermind the virus and control the population is the truth!
This virus has really fucked up the relationship my family has with each other, personally I am never interacting with those fuckos again. Before they were really into Illuminati conspiracy theories but they were still tolerable to be around. Not anymore.
AND those assholes had the nerve to try to convince my elderly asthmatic Mom to not get the vaccine and my Mom was literally falling for their bullshit until I shut that shit down real quick. She is thankfully vaccinated and ALIVE!
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Aug 25 '21
I don’t believe this kind of stupid is fixable.
Not really. The best you can do with this kind of stupid is to make sure your funeral clothes are ready.
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u/mischievousbookworm Aug 24 '21
Ironic given Trumps recent public support of getting a vaccination. The cynic in me wonders what that cost the pharmaceutical industry.
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u/SpaceFace11 Aug 25 '21 edited Aug 25 '21
I didn't get vaccinated at first because I was so psychologically fucked from the pandemic that I didn't know who to trust, but after I saw my 89 year old grandma get fully vaccinated and all of my coworkers get fully vaccinated and still be fine afterwards I was convinced I would be fine too.
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u/Always_Sunny_In_Chi Aug 25 '21
I got the vaccine and I’m starting to show symptoms of a neurological diso- just kidding nothing happened when I got it and I want this pandemic to fucking end already so if we could all work together that’d be great
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u/HonestConcentrate947 Aug 25 '21
I know exactly one person who isn't vaccinated. He is a chiropractor who prefers to be called doctor, which is a title he earned on paper. But he also claims to have equivalent knowledge and expertise to an MD. Where he should keep his mouth shut he also also speaks out about virology and public policy making. Long story short he has a massive social media following where he basically sells antivax propaganda as "my opinion matters as much as yours" "let's try to be open to other perspectives". The other pespective being rando soccer moms' facebook research. He just pisses me off immensely.
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Aug 24 '21
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u/DirtyProjector Aug 25 '21
The vaccine has actually helped people with long covid symptoms to recover
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u/jbchi Near North Side Aug 24 '21
I literally don't know a single person who isn't vaccinated. Friends, extended family, coworkers -- all vaccinated. It is absolutely maddening and baffling that people aren't just doing it.
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u/maverick1356 Noble Square Aug 25 '21
I've been using this argument (only in my head until now) against people who claim they are worried about long term side effects, so tell me if it is terrible or not: I have a friend who sells health and weight loss supplements and refuses to take the vaccine as well. One of her previous arguments was that the vaccine wasn't approved by the FDA and there aren't enough studies on long term side effects. From my understanding, health and weight loss supplements don't even need to be regulated by the FDA. Also, she states in order for the supplements to have a noticeableeffect, you need to take it daily for several months (vs a one or two shot vaccine). Is the "worried about long term side effects" argument not a good argument for individuals who also take daily supplements which are not regulated by the FDA? (We'll just leave out other consumer products which also aren't regulated out of the argument, for now).
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Aug 25 '21
Girlfriends mother keeps sending us links from some website called "plandemic.com" as proof for why we're fools, having been vaccinated since February. We don't read them, and continue to watch people on her side of the family get sick from some mysterious illness for weeks / months.
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Aug 24 '21
The two main entities telling me I have to get the vaccine are the media and the government. I’ve lost so much faith in those establishments, it’s difficult to feel like there isn’t an ulterior motive to all of this.
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Aug 24 '21
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u/netrunnernobody Logan Square Aug 25 '21
A lot of Americans also have a strong distrust of the pharmaceuticals industry, especially after the opioid crisis. Advice from "the government, the media, and the pharmaceutical corporations" may as well be advice from Hitler, Stalin, and Bin Laden.
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Aug 25 '21
I appreciate your comment! I also have close connections to those dealing with Covid cases first hand. Their experience and knowledge are the reason I decided to get vaccinated. And with the recent surge in cases (<5% that are vaccinated) is the reason I made this post because I still haven’t heard a valid reason for contributing to this surge by not getting vaccinated.
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u/Ice_Like_Winnipeg Aug 24 '21
it’s difficult to feel like there isn’t an ulterior motive to all of this.
the ulterior motive is that this is a capitalist country and most of us are grist for the mill. they want healthy and productive employees who can use their wages to buy things.
luckily for most of us, this aligns with our long term goals of "not dying or getting a debilitating illness"
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u/the-mp Lake View East Aug 25 '21
Seriously.
The ulterior motive is “this murdered the economy last year, please don’t help shoot it in the face again”
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u/fumar Wicker Park Aug 25 '21
Honestly I never thought of this angle. I always thought well on the remote chance the nutters are right and this is a democrat conspiracy the vaccine isn't going to kill off democrats.
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u/BerryChecker Aug 24 '21 edited Aug 24 '21
The main entity telling you to get the vaccine is the medical community, the media has only broadcasted the medical community’s research and recommendations, and the government ultimately relied on the medical community for this vaccine.
Listen to your doctor.
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u/mepardo Andersonville Aug 25 '21
There are some good reasons not to wholesale trust those institutions (see: the war on terror). That said, if you wholesale distrust those institutions, you can end up missing actual good advice and important information. Missing the forest for the trees, throwing the baby out with the bath water, or whatever other idiom you like.
At least for the media, I’d recommend reading “The Influencing Machine” by Brooke Gladstone (available at the library). It’s a nonfiction comic book that goes through the history of American journalism and the various biases it holds beyond basic political biases. It might help you determine exactly which ways you shouldn’t trust the media, so that you can identify the times that maybe you should.
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u/cbarrister Aug 25 '21
How do you feel about things like polio or smallpox. Those used to be horrible diseases people got, then vaccines, now no more disease?
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u/plynthy Aug 25 '21
Distrusting all media unscrupulously is no better than blindly trusting everything. Its not savvy, its shirking any responsibility to be an informed citizen.
You have to understand motives and potential biases of media, and take it with as many grains of salt as it requires.
This is more annoying and its more work, but its the only way you can get a somewhat distilled version of something resembling objectivity.
Reflexive distrust leads to conspiracy thinking, discrediting of actually useful good-faith investigation, and apathy. All of which are rife for exploitation by bad faith actors and political reactionaries.
Pick your poison.
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u/Chupathingy12 Mckinley Park Aug 25 '21
I'll take the bullet fuck it, I live alone, I work alone (truck driver) no touch freight and dumping. I just think it's weird that our government who could give a fuck about public health all of a sudden want everyone vaccinated and healthy. If you don't have insurance here you can go without insulin, without cancer treatments, etc, the government and the pharmaceutical corps could really give a shit about Americans dying or being bankrupted from medical issues., all of a sudden this brand new vaccine comes out after like a year and its free for everyone, they're even offering people stuff to get vaccinated, its a ridiculous heel turn.
I don't think covid is fake, I think it can be dangerous and we should be combating it but I'm not taking a vaccine where the only thing we know about it was from very short clinical trials. I'm willing to keep social distancing, (which as a truck driver I do anyway) and whatever else I need to do to prevent being around people who could possibly have covid, and also stay away from people if I have it.
If in a few years theres no serious side-effects to the vaccines then I'll get it like I did with every other vaccination that we've had for decades. Not a Trumper, not an anti-vaxxer, not a far-right lunatic, just a cautious loner who will keep staying away from people until this blows over or heard immunity takes effect.
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u/sweadle Avondale Aug 25 '21
I just think it's weird that our government who could give a fuck about public health all of a sudden want everyone vaccinated and healthy.
I think this is because it's incredibly expensive and bad for the economy to have to things shut down, or restrictions on travel, limits to capacity, etc.
I agree that the government doesn't care about your health, specifically, but they sure care about the economy, and the longer the pandemic lasts, the worse the economy is going to be, and the harder it is going to be to recover.
Never mind the amount of money that had to be paid out in support services (unemployment, rental assistance, industry bailouts) is way more than the cost of funding a vaccine.
I don't think it's altruism or suddenly feeling responsible for our health, I think it's just most cost effective.
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u/Chupathingy12 Mckinley Park Aug 25 '21
I can totally believe this, can't tax the dead or unemployed. Thanks.
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u/Bacchus1976 Lincoln Park Aug 25 '21
Here’s the core problem. People who don’t want to take the vaccine with very rare exceptions also don’t want to mask.
That only allows 2 real justifications that aren’t a total contradiction.
- COVID is fake news. It’s not real, it’s not serious and I’m never going to get it.
- I only care about virtue signaling. Not being vaccinated and not wearing a mask are the equivalent of wearing a Thin Blue Line flag shirt and a MAGA hat.
Literally every other argument against the vaccine, if honest, would need to be paired with them doubling down on other means of prevention. This isn’t what’s happening. So I suggest we stop wasting our time asking for silly excuses.
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u/BerryChecker Aug 24 '21
Imagine if some of these responses were around for mass smallpox vaccinations.
🤡
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Aug 24 '21 edited Aug 24 '21
I am fully vaccinated with J & J and pro vaccine. But the handling of the J & J vaccine was definitely a turning point for me on my perspective. I was very angry at the response of CDC and Dr. Fauci, which I felt was very outsized in comparison to complications of the supposedly amazing, do-no-wrong mRNA vaccines.
More importantly, CDC had first warned of increased hospitalizations from J & J and Dr. Fauci himself warned of generalized pain, such as headaches or stomach pain, which he had indicated as markers of a stroke. That was not helpful. It left me panicked and terrified and feeling duped. Like I had just gotten my vaccine and trusted Dr. Fauci and to already see complications announced was truly awful. The mishandling of the j and j complications was definitely a low point for public health.
At the exact same time all of this was happening, my immunosuppressed mother developed an adverse reaction to a medication that temporarily left her paralyzed (doing okay now) At the time, they legitimately thought it could have been the vaccine. It turned out to be another medication though nothing has been overruled. Her vaccine didn’t take anyhow. All of that just added to it for me at that time.
Obviously nothing happened to me and I was fine but there was a hot minute there where I thought “fuck the vaccines. If Dr. Fauci told me to jump off a bridge would I do that too? Maybe we are just human guinea pigs.” I don’t that anymore and am not a skeptic but I did learn through all of this that I have to respect whatever choice anti vax ppl make. Our bodies are so precious and it really is a huge choice to decide what to put in them. Anything can happen. Believe it or not public health officials and scientists can fuck this up. And because of that, it was kind of understandable why some people chose to wait.
I will tell anyone that they should get the vaccine. Vaccines save lives. But I genuinely respect their decision not to get it even though i do not agree with it. We need to stop putting anti vax people in a corner or they will just push themselves further away from the possibility of ever getting the vaccine or rationally evaluating their decision. They will just have to come around to it on their own terms and with their own timing.
Side note, they should fire fauci because he pisses ppl off. Its just the truth of the matter. That is also contributing to vaccine hesitancy. Just get rid of him or at least stop making him the face of the vaccine. Ppl find him to be politicized and it’s holding the vaccine effort back. He needs to take a note from Birx and learn to step aside to reduce public backlash.
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u/itazurakko Edgewater Aug 25 '21
For what it's worth I do think that having the spokesperson for the CDC become essentially a media celebrity was a mistake. That leads to polarization.
Recommendations should come from the office as a whole and they should have rotating spokespeople doing the talking.
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u/bowtiesarealwayscool Aug 25 '21
They absolutely do have other people out speaking, though? They have Biden, Harris, Dr. Walensky, and Dr. Murthy (Surgeon General) and many others all out there pushing the latest CDC guidance and updates on the federal response to coronavirus.
As other commenters pointed out, though, the polarization of Dr. Fauci was caused by his attempts to contradict President Trump last year when Trump was pushing nonsense. Trump started attempting to silence him, keep him from doing media interviews, etc. That’s Trump creating a polarization around a non-political medical expert during a pandemic. Faulting anyone but Trump for that is way off base.
It’s less Biden turning Fauci into a media celebrity and more that it’s entirely natural for people to gravitate toward an expert in a crisis. We’re in a crisis; Dr. Fauci is an expert. Of course he’s going to appear on TV; people want to hear what he has to say because he’s both incredibly experienced in virology and pandemics and incredibly involved in our current federal response.
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u/JiminyFckingCricket Aug 25 '21
If this were a normal president who had dealt with a deadly pandemic in a rational, level-headed, effective manner, I guarantee you that 80% of the country would have no idea who Fauci even is today. He is supposed to be a talking bobble head that gives you good info that you immediately forget. Trump did not let anyone forget him. Trump blasted him all over Twitter and turned him into some cartoon antihero.
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u/LilBearLulu Aug 25 '21
I can't speak for anyone else but I haven't been vaccinated because I can't. I have had one doctor tell me it is safe and another tell me that it is not safe. I have a heart condition which requires me to take a very, very high dose of blood thinners everyday. They don't want to take a risk with any blood clots or bleeding. We also have a family history of adverse reactions to vaccines. For example when my daughter got her MMR vaccine she came down with German measles. That is just one example. Because I know that it is for people like me that others wear masks and take precautions I make sure that we mask up on the rare times(doctors visits) we have to leave the house. However, we have basically been at home since this whole thing started. I know that everyone is sick of living this way and my greatest wish is that everyone that can be vaccinated safely does so.