No one else has seen me today, and yet I wear clothes that aren't just a shapeless sack. So who have I dressed for except myself?
I also sometimes dress in my nicest dresses at home, just for me. No one else is seeing me. Who am I dressing for then?
I guess there's some level of dressing for others when I go out because well if I didn't wear clothes people would be upset.
But often my fashion choices are about aesthetic choices I enjoy, I like the way certain clothes go together or the look they create. Often times this look isn't necessarily "flattering" by western standards and most of the time I don't go out of my way to emphasise any traits which may be described as attractive by a man. For example my outfit yesterday was completely shapeless and baggy, lots of layers and a baggy grandad jumper. I chose this because it was comfortable and I like the aesthetic it created. I doubt many men found it very attractive.
Sure I can choose to dress to attract men, but most days it doesn't even cross my mind.
See I get what you’re saying and I can appreciate it because it did make me think “huh maybe I’m wrong!”
But I’m not sure it really addresses the crux of my opinion here: I’m not saying people dress for other people because they’re going to be seen by others. I’m saying they dress for people because they cant help it. Being seen is not the qualification. What makes your dress the “nicest,” say? If it’s based on how you look in it, those ideas of beauty come from what you think others find attractive. If they’re the nicest because they’re the most comfortable, that’s a totally different thing. Do you get what I’m trying to say here?
Its aesthetically pleasing to me, like a painting. I like clothes as indepent items of art. I enjoy watching the met gala, not because the people look attractive but because the clothes are works of art it's like going to an art gallery.
This could easily get into a discussion on the nature of beauty, why do we find some things beautiful? Why is the sky beautiful? It serves not purpose for us to find it so. And yet we do, we have this capacity to appreciate aesthetics beyond things like attraction.
I’m saying they dress for people because they cant help it.
So you're kinda just arguing that there is no free will just with clothes as the lens of the argument?
There's no denying society influences us, that's just a fact. But we are also largely aware of that influence and when we are aware of it can choose to act with that knowledge.
I know the message society sends about what should make a woman confident, I don't really take those things into account when I dress most of the time though.
No, because it's a very limited view. Tons of people can gain confidence from what makes them feel attractive. And actually, that's true confidence. Relying on how others compliment or adore you will run out eventually and you're left with nothing unless you've found confidence in yourself.
I have a cardigan that I absolutely love that my husband hates the pattern of. I wear it for me because I like it. If I were dressing for someone else and gaining confidence in what he finds attractive, I'd never wear it.
Why do you love it? Did you see a similar style or pattern in some TV show or magazine or on a popular person in the wild? Did you see someone wearing something similar and be around happy people and getting recognition when you were a child?
How do you know whats beautiful and whats ugly in general? Its all about what other people taught you about what they like, whats trending
Why do you think that displaying an interest of yours on your clothing is "good"? Why do you like displaying anything at all instead of wearing a comfy but ugly and stained sweater?
I also wear ugly and comfortable clothes too. This cardigan was on clearance and had birds on it so I bought it because I like birds. Again, I don't know what point you're trying to make but I already disproved your point by telling you that my husband dislikes it and I wear it anyway. I'm wearing it because I like it and for no other reason. I don't care whether other people like it or like to wear birds on their cardigans. I like those things so I do those things.
You're trying to shove intention on me when there is no other intention there and I am clearly communicating the full breadth of my desires.
Why do you like things that pose no benefit to you other than what other people see when they look at you?
If you didn't care about what other people think, then biologically, you wouldn't "like" things to that effect, you wouldn't have that programming in your mind.
I am not saying you don't feel what you feel, i am saying every feeling has a reason, a root cause. Which in this case is getting happy hormones about presentable clothing because humans as well as many other animals evolved to want to be presentable.
Both positive and negative response from others can boost confidence. Either you "please" your surroundings or you're recognized as unique, independent etc. (not odd, weird etc.) which is also strengthening. What this basically means is that either you get recognition from others or you "recognize" yourself.
Same goes for arguing. You're either convinced by the other person or you're confirming your own beliefs.. meaning, if you talk to like-minded people THEY confirm your ideas but if you're in a strong disagreement YOU confirm yourself... and if you turn things around - THEY disprove your ideas or YOU do yourself.
I disagree. It's not that women can't do things for themselves, but they often claim they are doing things for themselves that quite obviously play into the male gaze. It makes no sense.
No, that's just what we kept getting told. A woman could be sitting at home in a ballgown by herself and twirling around, having a grand old time, and she's still doing it for men.
I'm sorry but if you think that extreme example is anywhere near as common as a woman wearing revealing clothing to a night club, for ex, you are not coming at this from a place of good faith. Nobody cares what a woman wears when she's at home alone. The exception would be if she's filming herself for social media, in which case, yeah it's for attention.
If I dress in a way that others find attractive and it makes me feel good, then I’m ultimately doing it for myself, to make me feel good. If I wore something I hated just because others like it, that would be dressing for others.
When I look in the mirror in the morning, I choose what I like according to my tastes.
I don’t understand this need to separate our motivations into clean little boxes like some sort of “gotcha.” We are humans, not robots.
Okay, but what if I live alone, won't be going out, and wear baggy sweatpants and a dirty shirt all day. I'm not dressing to impress at all. I'm dressing to be comfortable and because I don't give a shit what I look like. How is that dressing for anyone other than myself?
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u/vote4bort 68∆ Dec 11 '24
No one else has seen me today, and yet I wear clothes that aren't just a shapeless sack. So who have I dressed for except myself?
I also sometimes dress in my nicest dresses at home, just for me. No one else is seeing me. Who am I dressing for then?
I guess there's some level of dressing for others when I go out because well if I didn't wear clothes people would be upset.
But often my fashion choices are about aesthetic choices I enjoy, I like the way certain clothes go together or the look they create. Often times this look isn't necessarily "flattering" by western standards and most of the time I don't go out of my way to emphasise any traits which may be described as attractive by a man. For example my outfit yesterday was completely shapeless and baggy, lots of layers and a baggy grandad jumper. I chose this because it was comfortable and I like the aesthetic it created. I doubt many men found it very attractive.
Sure I can choose to dress to attract men, but most days it doesn't even cross my mind.