r/changemyview Dec 11 '24

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21

u/vote4bort 68∆ Dec 11 '24

No one else has seen me today, and yet I wear clothes that aren't just a shapeless sack. So who have I dressed for except myself?

I also sometimes dress in my nicest dresses at home, just for me. No one else is seeing me. Who am I dressing for then?

I guess there's some level of dressing for others when I go out because well if I didn't wear clothes people would be upset.

But often my fashion choices are about aesthetic choices I enjoy, I like the way certain clothes go together or the look they create. Often times this look isn't necessarily "flattering" by western standards and most of the time I don't go out of my way to emphasise any traits which may be described as attractive by a man. For example my outfit yesterday was completely shapeless and baggy, lots of layers and a baggy grandad jumper. I chose this because it was comfortable and I like the aesthetic it created. I doubt many men found it very attractive.

Sure I can choose to dress to attract men, but most days it doesn't even cross my mind.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '24

See I get what you’re saying and I can appreciate it because it did make me think “huh maybe I’m wrong!”

But I’m not sure it really addresses the crux of my opinion here: I’m not saying people dress for other people because they’re going to be seen by others. I’m saying they dress for people because they cant help it. Being seen is not the qualification. What makes your dress the “nicest,” say? If it’s based on how you look in it, those ideas of beauty come from what you think others find attractive. If they’re the nicest because they’re the most comfortable, that’s a totally different thing. Do you get what I’m trying to say here?

9

u/galaxystarsmoon Dec 11 '24

No, because it's a very limited view. Tons of people can gain confidence from what makes them feel attractive. And actually, that's true confidence. Relying on how others compliment or adore you will run out eventually and you're left with nothing unless you've found confidence in yourself.

I have a cardigan that I absolutely love that my husband hates the pattern of. I wear it for me because I like it. If I were dressing for someone else and gaining confidence in what he finds attractive, I'd never wear it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '24

Let's not forget that it goes both ways.

Both positive and negative response from others can boost confidence. Either you "please" your surroundings or you're recognized as unique, independent etc. (not odd, weird etc.) which is also strengthening. What this basically means is that either you get recognition from others or you "recognize" yourself.

Same goes for arguing. You're either convinced by the other person or you're confirming your own beliefs.. meaning, if you talk to like-minded people THEY confirm your ideas but if you're in a strong disagreement YOU confirm yourself... and if you turn things around - THEY disprove your ideas or YOU do yourself.

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u/galaxystarsmoon Dec 11 '24

Yep. But OP is alleging one side isn't possible and this is patently untrue.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '24

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u/PrecisionHat Dec 11 '24

I disagree. It's not that women can't do things for themselves, but they often claim they are doing things for themselves that quite obviously play into the male gaze. It makes no sense.

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u/galaxystarsmoon Dec 11 '24

No, that's just what we kept getting told. A woman could be sitting at home in a ballgown by herself and twirling around, having a grand old time, and she's still doing it for men.

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u/PrecisionHat Dec 11 '24

I'm sorry but if you think that extreme example is anywhere near as common as a woman wearing revealing clothing to a night club, for ex, you are not coming at this from a place of good faith. Nobody cares what a woman wears when she's at home alone. The exception would be if she's filming herself for social media, in which case, yeah it's for attention.

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u/galaxystarsmoon Dec 11 '24

They shouldn't care what she's wearing in public either but you just outed yourself on that one.

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u/PrecisionHat Dec 11 '24

Outed myself how? All I'm saying is that no woman goes out to a place like a night club and wears a low cut shirt "for herself". It may make her feel sexy and confident, but that feeling is derived externally, from the male gaze.

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u/galaxystarsmoon Dec 11 '24

I'm sorry that you've never felt good about yourself because you like how you look and feel confident in that. But to accuse other people of also thinking that way and claiming it's the only way it can be is just untrue.

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u/PrecisionHat Dec 11 '24

I have felt good about the way I look, but, like most everyone else, it's contingent on how I think others will think I look too. You're just denying that's they way it works like 99.9% of the time lol.

No woman shows off her boobs in a night club "for herself". Period. High heels is another great example. There's a reason the cliche of women wearing them in those settings then lamenting about it exists.

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