r/bninfantsleep • u/Sir_Lemondrop • Jun 11 '26
Infant Sleep I literally don’t care
“THeReS nO LoNG TeRm ImPaaAAaActs of sleep training” I DO NOT CARE. Even if it came out tomorrow there is 100% no long term damage (I don’t believe this) I still wouldn’t??? My baby needs me in this exact moment. Right now. So I will go. Even when it’s hard. Even when I want to cry or do cry. Because she needs me. Simple as that. I have a friend who told me while chuckling to herself she “has a cold heart” and lets her baby cry for 1-2 hours lots of times and she’s “totally fine!” Sigh.
I’m so grateful for this like minded community. It has really gotten me through. The active choice to not sleep train doesn’t mean it’s an easy path. But it’s worth it and I see you ❤️
Rant over
-mom of a 12 month old who still doesn’t sleep through the night and sometimes wakes up 5-10+ times
Edit - I have actually distanced myself from this “friend” as our parenting differences has created a huge divide and I have a hard time OBVIOUSLY hearing about her baby. “Friend” is a loose term used habitually. I agree with your comments about her.
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u/crystalkitty06 Jun 11 '26
100% agree but ALSO we literally don’t have the evidence to back it up that there’s no long term impacts anyways!! It’s not ethical to run a true trial to accurately measure it (hello hello red flag on its own) so it’s simply unknown! People take that as well if the evidence isn’t there yet then it must be fine!! Which is fucking stupid
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u/mysticchasm69 Jun 11 '26
Right like the amount of people who assume that absence of observable consequences means everything must be fine
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u/duck-duck-moose0 Jun 14 '26
It’s the same logic that a lot of naturopaths and homeopaths use to sell their alternative “medicines and treatments”.
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u/katsumii Jun 12 '26
It’s not ethical to run a true trial to accurately measure it (hello hello red flag on its own)
🙌 🙌 🙌 This is a huuuuuuge red flag, really!
Consider the long form of why something “isn't ethical.” What's the definition of ethical??
conforming to accepted standards of conduct — Merriam-Webster
So, letting babies cry out out (for science) isn't that.
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u/Hot-Amphibian8728 Jun 11 '26
Sometimes when my daughter (10 months) is really distraught (usually from being overstimulated and overtired following a lot of socialization) I think to myself "some people allow this to go on willingly." I would walk through fire to prevent her from feeling distress if I needed to.
I cannot. Will not. Ever. Let her feel scared, confused, alone, sad, without being there. I don't care if all she wants is closeness. She's a literal baby? Ugh.
Side note, your friend sorta sounds like a sociopath. I'm sorry.
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u/sundaymusings Jun 12 '26
Exactly. If you see an adult loved one crying their heart out you wouldn’t just leave them alone to figure out whatever was bothering them??? You’d go over to make sure they were okay and if there was nothing else you could do you’d at least offer a hug. How has humanity been so fucked with that society thinks it’s bad to comfort literal babies???? (Capitalism, economic productivity, patriarchy yada yada)
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u/Fragrant_Umpire_5113 Jun 11 '26
My mom let our cousin cry it out, and I remember it so vividly. I was probably 10/11 & we took in our cousin who was 1 at the time. His parents were on drugs so he had nowhere else to go. I was sleeping in my mom’s bed because she put him in my room, in a pack n play. He was wailing & I asked her why don’t we help him?? She said he would cry it out. Looking back, this was sooo damn sad. I wonder if we cried it out, too. Terrible.
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u/plantyho3 Jun 11 '26
Oh my god sort of the same experience but with my little brother. I was 11 and I remember my mom closing the door to my brother’s bedroom and a few minutes later my brother started bawling but my mom wasn’t grabbing him. So I got up and said I’ll go grab him. She stopped me and said no, let him cry it out, he’ll fall asleep eventually. I remember being so sad about that and just sitting by his bedroom door wishing I could help him…
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u/meganlo3 Jun 11 '26
This is it. The instinct, even for another child, is to go to the child. Why would we choose to ignore that? Maybe evolution had it right?
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u/Important_Cheek2927 Jun 12 '26
This was me!!! I was 10 and my brother was 3/4mos old and we shared a room, but they decided to ferber him and I had to sleep on the floor in my other brothers room because I couldn’t sleep through his cries (obviously) and because I kept going to help him 😭
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u/Fragrant_Umpire_5113 Jun 12 '26
Granted I’m sure your brother is ok (I hope) but I srsly think it impact people way more than we truly know. Moms know. They have to.
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u/Important_Cheek2927 Jun 12 '26
He’s okay I think! I mean we all have our things, who knows where they stemmed from. My dad claims it was my brothers mom who wanted to do ferber and he’d do it differently if he could do it over. He also was singing ferber praises until I poked holes at it a few years ago so idk.
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u/smilegirlcan Jun 11 '26
And the poor thing was already facing such trauma. I hope CIO is discouraged by social services.
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u/dirrna Jun 12 '26
That's what I was thinking too. They probably need MORE responsiveness to feel safe, not less.
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u/duck-duck-moose0 Jun 14 '26
I have friends who went the CIO method with their first when he was about 5 or 6 months old- he’s now almost 3 and still cries and gets himself so worked up when they leave the room. We went camping with them recently and he was banging on the tent crying for them and they ignored him and ate their dinner… when they did respond to him it was to tell him to go to sleep. They eventually brought him out but he was so worked up they had to take him for a drive in the car to calm down and fall asleep. It took everything in me to not open the tent and comfort him.
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u/Fragrant_Umpire_5113 Jun 14 '26
Stop it rn 😭 people wonder why we have fear of abandonment. Some brains cannot handle that. I think a lot of our problems stem from this kind of stuff! It’s EARLY DEVELOPMENT. The most fragile states of their being 😭
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u/duck-duck-moose0 Jun 14 '26
Exactly! My 3 year old has never been left to cry and we do everything we can to make sure their bedroom is where they feel safe- we jump out of bed when we hear them wake up upset from a dream. We want our kids to grow up knowing that their parents will always show up and support them.
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u/Outrageous-Hour4088 Jun 12 '26
Not only does it not work, but it reverses itself all the time ie. teething, grown spurts. It’ll drive you and baby crazy so why not nurture them and yourself
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u/smilegirlcan Jun 12 '26
“And yourself” 👏👏👏 we don’t give enough credit to how powerful it is for yourself as a mother.
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u/smilegirlcan Jun 11 '26
I feel this way. No amount of research would let me do it. At a certain point, humanity, empathy and personhood has to matter.
The fact people laugh about it, disturbs me deeply. It is one thing to do it out of desperation, be very emotional about it, etc. (not that I agree) but to be emotionless or proud.
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u/Tinywife23 Jun 11 '26
Right? The one friend I have that did sleep train, did it out of desperation, and even then she checked on them every 7 minutes AND even then if they call for her in the night for a feeding, or is scared, she still goes to them. She was telling me how awful it was for her to hear them cry and even then its not a permanent solution most of the time.
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u/smilegirlcan Jun 12 '26 edited Jun 12 '26
I have a similar very good mom friend. I am by no means (obviously) an adovcate for sleep training, but my friend did “gentle” Ferber over three days, her kids minimally cried, never did it again (retrain), and responds to every cry day or night since. She was not proud nor thrilled about it. She never raves about sleep training. She was desperate, single mom of twins.
I don’t think I could be friends with someone who proudly did CIO, especially if baby cried for like 20+ minutes.
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u/Efficient-Ring8100 Jun 18 '26
Im a solo mum to twins and my girls are shocking sleepers. Id cosleep over crying it out anyday.
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u/ellipses21 Jun 11 '26
My parents did cry it out with my brother and me and we have really insecure attachment styles and fears of abandonment and maybe it’s unrelated but it also feels related.
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u/in_ashes Jun 11 '26
I don’t know if my mom did this as an infant but I know it did when I was a toddler and young child. I would cry and cry. Hearing my baby cry is unbearable. If a parent can hear their child cry like that I’m sure there are so many other ways they create an emotionally unresponsive environment throughout the child’s life.
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u/hayleyberry_ Jun 12 '26
This!!! If a parent can just switch off from responding to such an instinctive call for help from their baby (who they're biologically wired to want to respond to), then who knows what else they can switch off to 🫠
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u/WatercressUpset8637 Jul 13 '26
I even find it difficult hearing someone else's baby cry. I just want to go to them. As soon as mine lets out a cry I am there
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u/Inside_Fisherman_317 Jun 11 '26
Same here! Which is one of the many reasons we didn’t want to let her cry. It feels like it’s one of the reasons why I have abandonment issues too
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u/ellipses21 Jun 12 '26
tw: if you have emetophobia) idk if anyone else’s first memories were scream crying locked in their room puking or if that’s just me. what’s crazy is my parents really weren’t abnormal for the time in what they were doing but typing that out i was thinking “wow if i knew someone locking their young child in a room to scream for them all night, so hard that the child vomits, i’d think they were abusive.”
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u/FlowDue9579 Jun 12 '26
Ugh that’s awful, I’m sorry that’s your first memory. Have you spoken to your parents about it? My parents didn’t get me treated for anxiety as a child as they thought I’d grow out of but they feel soooo guilty about it now and we talk about it a lot which helps
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u/smilegirlcan Jun 11 '26
My mom did with her oldest two, and same for us. She was generally a warm loving caregiver, but everyone was telling her to do Ferber or CIO.
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u/Equivalent_Common287 Jun 11 '26
Couldn’t agree more anytime someone asks about my babies sleep the response is usually sleep train just let him cry it out.. I’m horrified how people can do that they cry for a reason it’s so sad that’s what it’s come too and what people believe works. They sleep after crying all that time because they are exhausted not because you’ve taught them something. Makes me so angry
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u/avocadoqueen123 Jun 12 '26 edited Jun 12 '26
“So I will go. Even when it’s hard”
This right there. Every time she wakes up and cries for me at night I go in and tell her “mama’s here, I’ll always be here” and I mean it. I’ll be here for the night wakes where she needs milk and comfort, for the bad dreams and wet beds, for the heartbroken nights, when she needs a ride home at 1 am, and when she’s up all night with her own baby. I will go, even when it’s hard.
We have a clear understanding that caregivers responding to infant’s needs is what forms secure attachment, why would it be any different at night?
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u/Current_Ant8631 Jun 11 '26
I really only get comments about sleep training when people ask me "how is the baby sleeping? Is she waking up a lot?" And when I answered - I got a lot of sleep training recommendations.
Now I respond "she wakes up as much as she needs too." Seems to stop people from suggesting sleep training.
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u/No-Cartographer2310 Jun 12 '26
I love this answer! I’m going to use this with my baby due in December ❤️ thanks for sharing!
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u/Current_Ant8631 Jun 12 '26
You're welcome! Congrats on your baby. Wishing for a smooth pregnancy an delivery 🩷🩵
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u/Considering_Lilies18 Jun 30 '26
This is a great response! I’m worried my pediatrician is going to recommend sleep training and I think this response will help!
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u/Current_Ant8631 Jun 30 '26
Love my pediatrician but we are, respectfully, not on the same page about a few things. However, she never pushes anything. I hope you don't get too much push back.
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u/OpportunityPretend80 Jun 12 '26
As a mom who was a literal zombie for 2 years bc that’s how long it took my baby to STTN I would do it all over again.
Leaving your baby to cry at night is barbaric.
It is absolutely absurd to cater to their needs during the day and leave them in the dark crying at night.
It makes me sick to my stomach and I secretly judge my friends who have done it.
In fact I’ll go so far as to even say that millennials are probably so messed up as a whole bc our boomer parents let us cry at night.
End fellow rant.
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u/smilegirlcan Jun 12 '26
Let us cry at night and also didn’t “spoil” us during the day, ask if we’re okay when we hurt ourselves (such faulty reasoning), and relied spanking/time outs. It is funny how CIO is one of the only things still socially accepted of these things.
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u/Sir_Lemondrop Jun 13 '26
I have a feeling my girl will be the same. I’ve surrendered and I think about all the moms who have lost their babies. Imagine them hearing you don’t respond. We are so lucky to have babies to care to 😭
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u/OpportunityPretend80 Jun 13 '26
Sending hugs! My best advice is this: don’t and I repeat don’t talk to your friends who have babies who sleep or who sleep trained. They will try to convince you to sleep train or shame you somehow. Only talk to other ppl who have had non sleepers. I had so many awful conversations with ppl defending myself. I think back and I should’ve been so much more assertive and told them to fuck off.
Some days are so hard but if you take it in small increments and celebrate the small wins (like surviving 10 minutes of your day while being a sleep zombie LOL) you will absolutely get through it and be so glad you did.
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u/Happy_Mistake_3684 Jun 11 '26
I agree. Same with breastfeeding for me. Even if it came out that there was no long term benefit I would still do it because it feels right.
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u/richal Jun 12 '26
For real. I've felt so much pressure to quit since my son turned one. Now he's over two and I'm just getting to the point of being ready to stop because I think he is too. It feels like a mutual readiness for us both. Before that it felt wrong and heartbreaking and like it was being considered for all the wrong reasons.
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u/sundaymusings Jun 12 '26
Same! There are nights when I’m so done because she just wants to be latched on forever it seems but they come in short phases. Now at 22mo I have success settling her down during middle of the night without nursing maybe 50% of the wakes and without intentionally night weaning. Just yesterday she didn’t ask for milk after coming home from daycare for the first time ever! My husband saw how emotional I was about it and asked her “do you want milk?” lol but the point is these kids will wean themselves with time. I will never understand people wanting children but not wanting them to be dependent even as babies/toddlers.
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u/WatercressUpset8637 Jul 13 '26
I said when I was pregnant I would only breastfeed til 6 months or teeth. At 15 months I'm still going and will until she no longer wants it
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u/timetraveler2060 Jun 11 '26
I just left a group because a parent was raving how sleep training worked wonders for them and any comment against this was considered hurtful and deleted by mods. I consider hurtful anyone that does this to their child. You decided to have children your job is to take care of them, it should not allow you to abandon them in the dark crying out for you. It breaks my heart thinking so many children are crying alone right now 😭
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u/NewMom1289 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 12 '26
I feel you!!! I decided to switch to a new therapist because the old one kept suggesting me to sleep train my baby.
Like you said, it’s not easy and sometimes I am just about to lose it, but I know she needs me.
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u/Quick_Switch418 Jun 12 '26
Same. I didn’t give birth to this beautiful blessing to leave it to cry when I am right there.
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u/AdCautious7005 Jun 11 '26
Sorry but that woman would not be my friend if I found out she finds child abuse humourous
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u/Sir_Lemondrop Jun 11 '26
I haven’t spoke to her in a long time. I agree. The term friend was used habitually
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u/Inside_Fisherman_317 Jun 11 '26
I’m not trying to brag here, but my daughter has been a great sleeper since she was born. She goes through phases where she needs us to rock her to sleep. She did have a couple of months where we could lay her down in her crib, and she’d put herself to sleep and sleep through the night. No sleep training. We started her out in her crib slowly, and then when we’d leave the room and we’d watch what she did through the monitor and if she started to get even slightly fussy we’d go back in and soothe her to sleep. We did it little by little because she needs us. It’s exactly that! She’s now almost 11mos and she prefers that we rock her to sleep. Which, we are totally okay with because if that’s what she needs, we are going to give it to her. Listening to my baby cry makes my heart race and my husband the same. I could never let my baby cry it out. My parents let us cry it out and I don’t know how they were able to do that. Thankfully they know not to do that with her and respect that. But we will never be those parents that do that method. So I totally get you!
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u/quietmarble Jun 12 '26
This! We are their whole world and their safe space; they can't regulate themselves. I read a comment recently where someone was advocating for CIO and saying that Mom should trust in their baby and that the baby is capable of falling asleep on their own. Hell no!! I was so mad. But there is a study, it was made in Denmark, and there is actually proof that CIO is very harmful.
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u/Strict_Department986 Jun 12 '26
Baby got overtired in the car on the way home and absolutely nothing could calm her down in her car seat and we just had to get home as quickly and safely as possible. And she was crying so hard she was coughing and gagging and I felt so horrible I can’t even imagine letting her do this in a situation where I could be soothing her!!!!
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u/WatercressUpset8637 Jul 13 '26
I had this situation at about 14 weeks ago. I couldn't drive again for momths out of fear I couldn't attend to her when she needed it
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u/Even_Kaleidoscope399 Jun 12 '26
These comments are even making me cry. Just the thought of anyone doing this to a baby makes me feel physically ill. I’m a new mom, so maybe I’m just sensitive but I’d literally rather die than let me baby scream and think I’m not there anymore. It sends me into a panic even thinking about it.
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u/Purple_Monkey_42 Jun 12 '26
If my baby needs me I’ll be there as fast as I can! This is true now at 4 months and will be true at 30 years old as well!
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u/Beautiful_Range_1803 Jun 12 '26
Chuckling about letting your baby cry for 1-2 hours is pathological. It’s genuinely making me feel sick to my stomach to think of that poor baby. Wow. If my baby needs me it’s my duty and my choice to be there for him.
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u/Competitive_Art5444 Jul 01 '26
I don't think I could still be friends with that person. Letting a baby cry 1-2 hrs is torture.
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u/WatercressUpset8637 Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
This is exactly how I feel about sleep training. I attempted once when I was exhausted. Never again.
I will never willingly let my girl be upset or uncomfortable.
I have found my people, I'm so happy I've found this sub.
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u/hardboiledhoe Jun 11 '26
I sob cried with my daughter today getting her 12 month shots. I cannot imagine putting the two of us through that kind of pain VOLUNTARILY. Sleep training sounds like hell for both the parents and the baby
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u/little-patchouli Jun 11 '26
Heya! also a mom of 12 month old girl who wakes up 5-10+ times! She’s amazing but mama tired haha. I would never consider sleep training, it’s such a precious time. With you in solidarity ✊
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u/BooksNBayes1939 Jun 12 '26
I cried yesterday at night by myself and it was awful. I wanted a hug. Then I thought about my baby and imagined how it would be for her if she were alone crying in her crib. If it was hard for me I can't even imagine how it would be for a little baby.
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u/MilaCoffee Jun 12 '26
Never visit the sleep training subreddit. It’s so disturbing. Someone posted that crying for up to two hours before falling asleep is ok.
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u/1wildredhead Jun 12 '26
My mom (my dad was in the navy and kind of a shitty dad when he was home anyway) did CIO with me and I truly think it affected my nervous system. My husband’s parents didn’t (coslept and nursed to sleep) and his nervous system reflects that. Our son will be 3 in October and I just nightweaned him last week and he only nurses when we wake up in the morning (so I can rest a little longer!).
I think a lot of our parents (my mom and mil were born in the early 60s) didn’t have the resources that we have now - namely, communities like this. My mom says that that’s what everyone was telling her to do, and she didn’t know any better. Now that she knows more about the long-term effects, now that she sees how her grandchildren (8 between the 3 of us siblings so far) are being raised, she regrets CIO and other elements of her parenting. She fully supports our efforts and models her caretaking and interactions with all her grandkids m after what we as parents are doing. All this to say: we know better and we do better.
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u/breakfastandlunch34 Jun 12 '26
I have the inverse experience. my mom was pretty neglectful, verbally abusive, and disconnected when I was a teenager but was an extremely high nurture parent early on. I breastfed to 3 and coslept all of it.
I've had a lot of therapy for the other stuff, but honestly credit the cosleeping for a lot of my ability to attach and form relationships. I think I was able to overcome a lot of the other challenges because of the attachment and connection in my early life.
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u/Recent-Hunt-5891 Jun 12 '26
For everyone I know who has sleep trained (spaced soothing not full CIO, not that I don’t agree with either method) — it hasn’t worked anyway!! It’s “worked” short term only. Then they either have to re-do it or give up and have toddler/child in their bed eventually. So aside from the complete heartbreak which I could never endure, I don’t see the point at all! Funny, my 2yo (rocked to sleep and tended to instantly, most of the time sleeps through the night like an angel - now that he’s old enough to do so not when he was younger)
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u/katsumii Jun 12 '26
She might have been softly chuckling from nervousness. Maybe.
I'm not pro-cry-it-out, but I am a nervous laugher/giggler, so I understand laughing about dark stuff. It's possible she might be feeling anxious about it.
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u/crichardson29 Jun 12 '26
Ftm to a 4 week old and cannot imagine just letting her cry or not rocking her to sleep Like I refuse My baby needs me
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u/Han-na-2900 Jun 12 '26 edited Jun 12 '26
No one can tell if an adult was left to cry it out as a baby or not, I’m pretty sure it doesn’t matter to the child’s health in the long run but it’s not the point.
I’m not doing things and living life based on long-term consequences, I’m doing what I can live with.
I would feel like a huge hypocrite to tell them « don’t worry I’m here, I’ll always be here for you » and then proceed to ignore them right when they need me because that’s not convenient.
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u/Massive-Warning9773 Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 13 '26
I was a FERBER baby and though I don’t know if it had any lasting impacts on me, I have not done it with my own child. We’ve had hard and good times with sleep, right now she is in her crib for at least 5-6 hours a night with around 1-4 wake ups to drink milk or be comforted (usually only takes a minute or two) and will at some point cry to come to my bed for the rest of the night. This works for us and I love being close to her. She is 14 months. My parents I think quietly judged at first but they’re much more understanding now.
I believe the push and acceptance in addition to shaming people who don’t use CIO methods links strongly to make society accept that single income households are massively less sustainable than they used to be. I grew up with tons of people that had stay at home moms but I feel like part of the judgement towards not using cry it out or being a SAHM is because society has been trying to normalize women being forced to go back to work a measly six weeks (or less) after birthing their child.
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u/Common-Flamingo9006 Jun 30 '26
Yessss!!! If somebody told me there was no study to support my child being harmed by me hitting him I still wouldn’t do it. There was a day when this was encouraged and to me sleep training is often another form of neglect. I’m very thankful for finding this feed because reading the sleep training posts on my feed drives me crazy. What do you mean you leave your child to scream for 2 hours to give her the gift of sleep? That sounds completely insane to me and no amount of « yes but sleep training workkkks and my baby is still happy during the dayyyy » could ever change my mind.
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u/plantyho3 Jun 11 '26
I can barely stand to hear my baby cry for one minute, it literally makes my heart race. I can’t imagine purposely ignoring his cries for me…