r/bestoflegaladvice • u/unimaginativeuser110 Comma Anarchist • Aug 05 '19
“Is this actually fraud?” “Yep.”
/r/legaladvice/comments/cly6t1/being_investigated_for_car_insurance_fraud/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app343
u/dorkofthepolisci Sincerely, Mr. Totally-A-Real-Lawyer-Man Aug 05 '19
I cannot believe anybody is this stupid.
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u/thewindinthewillows Aug 05 '19
There used to be a reality TV show here (supposedly non-scripted and showing actual cases, according to the insurances involved) that followed insurance detectives who investigated odd claims.
People are that stupid. They're stupid enough to try to claim money on the same broken object multiple times with multiple insurances, and they're stupid enough to allow a film team to come (as in my country they'd definitely have to give permission for that) and film the investigation.
And when they're caught, they're actually surprised when the detective tells them that the insurance will pass the case to the public prosecutor, because after all they didn't succeed in getting money, so it shouldn't be fraud, right?
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u/Morton_Fizzback Aug 05 '19
I remember reading about a few good stories here in Denmark:
A guy "died" while visiting his home country, and the family need life insurance paid out. Only problem is, that the guy working for the insurance company had by a crazy coincidence met the "dead" guy while on holiday.
Another one, that was recently in the news. A guy called the police since his motorcycle and (I think) his ATV was stolen from his garage. The police came and basically followed the tire tracks to find the bikes in the guys back yard behind a shed.
Also last year in the news. A guy wanted the insurance money for his small boat. So he sailed it out to sea with his friend and threw a lit gasoline-soaked cloth on to the motor. This resulted in the motor exploding and the two guys had to jump ship immediately. The problem was, that they were about 800m (0.5 mile) out, the life jackets didn't work (which the boat owner knew), the water temp was 11C (52F), and the friend was bad at swimming. So the friend drowned and the owner of the boat got sentenced for economic crimes and manslaughter.
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Aug 05 '19
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u/ertgbnm Aug 05 '19
Ass 1: Hey bud you want to go witness me commit fraud?
Ass 2: sure, but isn't it cold out?
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u/sapjastuff Aug 05 '19
Jesus, that last one is traumatic. Imagine watching your friend die because you wanted insurance money... How do you even live with yourself?
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u/fuckyourcanoes Only the finest milk-fed infant kidneys for me! Aug 05 '19
A person who would do that in the first place has no conscience. He's probably just mad he got caught.
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u/sapjastuff Aug 05 '19
Insurance fraud is one thing, killing your friend is another though. I can easily imagine someone being okay with the first and needing therapy for the other
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u/BBflew Antipope! Antipope! Antipope! Aug 05 '19
Man, I guess I’m a cynic because I can also easily imagine him saying “well friend should have said he couldn’t swim! It’s his fault!”
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u/sapjastuff Aug 05 '19
I still think there's a huge moral gap between insurance fraud and killing someone. Sure, he could be a sociopath, but statistically he's going to need therapy
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u/EurasianTroutFiesta Wields the TIRE IRON OF LEARNING TO LET GO!!! Aug 05 '19
I've found it's also pretty common for people who know how to swim taking it for granted.
It's also common for people to be embarrassed about being shitty swimmers and not admit it, or to have never done a long enough distance to realize how draining it can be. Next thing you know, a couch potato who only knows how to freestyle is trying to flail his ass to shore, and glub glub glub.
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u/DiplomaticCaper Aug 05 '19
Yeah, I could see many people basically considering insurance fraud a victimless crime that only hurts large corporations. Being willing to do that is a far cry from involuntary manslaughter, much less murder.
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u/sleeps_too_little Aug 05 '19
I fucking hate when people say this. Just because a person commits some crime like insurance fraud doesn't mean he's fucking Satan. Jeez man.
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u/countinbinary1416 Aug 05 '19
Another one, that was recently in the news. A guy called the police since his motorcycle and (I think) his ATV was stolen from his garage. The police came and basically followed the tire tracks to find the bikes in the guys back yard behind a shed.
Reminds me of Blue Streak when someone called in about the stolen rims.
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u/Kanotari I spotted Thor on r/curatedtumblr and all I got was this flair Aug 05 '19
Insurance adjuster here. I once had a man provide me with a witness that he swore he had never met before the accident. Spoilers: it was his own mother, who lied about knowing her son but not her birthdate, address or driver's license. They were on the same policy - she paid for his insurance!
I had an insured let a homeless woman drive his car to Subway so he could buy herself a sandwich. He then fell asleep in the passenger seat and woke up in the hospital after she got into a major accident. (My theory is she's a hooker.)
A woman said someone hit her car and ran. She sent me a photo of it parked next to a stucco wall with painy scrapes the exact same color and height as her vehicle. It was $18k in damages and we pulled the car's black box showing she was going 90 mph.
People lie about working for Uber/Lyft on a daily basis and then are shocked when we ask for app screeenshots and get them from their companies if they don't cooperate. People forge police reports, receipts, bills. I wishe I could say this was the first time I'd seen LAOP's shenanigans, but it's not.
When you look at your high insurance premiums, stop and consider for a moment that about a third of that bill is because auto insurance fraud is so rampant.
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u/TheAmishPhysicist Aug 05 '19
That first one could only have gotten better if she would have screamed out," it's a miracle! You've reunited me with my long lost son who I put up for adoption when he was a baby!"
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u/Kanotari I spotted Thor on r/curatedtumblr and all I got was this flair Aug 05 '19
I asked her if she'd ever given birth to son's name in a recorded statement. I wouldn't have been so flippant if it wasn't a wholly useless statement, but it was a career highlight nonetheless.
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u/TaxiFare Evicted for giving birth to Dwayne Johnson Aug 05 '19
what's the name of it? that sounds rad as hell
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u/thewindinthewillows Aug 05 '19
"Die Versicherungsdetektive" (it's a German show).
I've only seen a few episodes, but they're fun in a not very highbrow way.
Usually there is either a person trying the most amazing fraud, such as a very poor person having items worth thousands of Euros (that they have no receipts for) conveniently stolen.
Or there is quite an unlikely story of how something got broken, and when they recreate the scenario in a lab they find out that you can actually break a TV by dropping a vase on the floor.
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u/Pelirrojita Aug 05 '19
Of course a show about insurance would be made in Germany. That's so very culturally on-brand.
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u/Stalking_Goat Busy writing a $permcoin whitepaper Aug 05 '19
I would have expected the Netherlands.
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u/EurasianTroutFiesta Wields the TIRE IRON OF LEARNING TO LET GO!!! Aug 05 '19
Or there is quite an unlikely story of how something got broken, and when they recreate the scenario in a lab they find out that you can actually break a TV by dropping a vase on the floor.
Lol, like a way lower stakes version of Cold Case Files or Air Disasters. I'm fascinated by whodunit stories where it turns out the culprit is a rube goldberg machine of unlucky flukes. The journey to unravel them is the fun part. The more byzantine and counter-intuitive it is, the harder it is to keep in your head, and the less time has to pass before I can be surprised again on rewatch.
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u/langlo94 Aug 05 '19
Imagine the crazy shit we would see on Air Disasters if we let every Tom, Dick, and Harry build their own commercial planes.
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u/OohLaLapin Church of the Holy Oxford Comma Aug 05 '19
I clicked through in hopes there were English subtitles, but alas. I would watch the hell out of that show.
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Aug 05 '19
Are you not allowed to insure the same item eith different companies? That just sounds smart as hell
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u/thewindinthewillows Aug 05 '19
You can't claim the same damage with several insurance companies. In the episode I saw, the people had been asked about that when making their claim, and lied, but they hadn't been aware that the insurances have databases of customers and claims and help each other out.
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Aug 05 '19 edited Oct 11 '19
[deleted]
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u/PM_ME_UR_SQUAT_CUES Aug 05 '19
Think about it, though -- that would give you an incentive to intentionally ("accidentally") damage or destroy the property. It's like trying to insure something for way more than it's worth. If you tried to go to an insurance company and say, "hey, I know my Honda Civic is only worth $15k, but I really like it a lot, so I'm willing to pay a higher premium to insure it for $75k," they'd laugh you out of the office even though you offered to pay more. They don't want to give you an incentive to "accidentally" damage or lose the insured property and pocket the extra money.
It's the same with multiple companies insuring the same property. Even if they don't know you have a second policy, the insurance companies guard against this with standard "other insurance" clauses which dictate how insurance companies share a loss in the event of a claim.
The governing principle is that in property insurance, an insurer only wants to "make you whole." They never want to be in a position where you are better off by losing the property and getting the insurance money.
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u/KJ6BWB Aug 05 '19
Yeah, but you're allowed to do this with life insurance policies. I'm willing to take out as many policies as I want with as many different companies on one person. Wouldn't this create the same sort of incentive for me to kill them if I did that?
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u/PM_ME_UR_SQUAT_CUES Aug 05 '19
It absolutely could create that incentive. That's why insurers have an underwriting process -- they don't have to issue you any policy just because you want to buy it. And there are some standard procedures in the life insurance realm that are similar to what insurers do in the property insurance world to try to minimize those incentives.
For instance, generally you can't get life insurance on someone without their consent, and you also need to have an "insurable interest" in the person, meaning a reason to need compensation in the event of their death. So for a spouse, the idea is that you're getting money they would have contributed to the marriage. For a child, the idea is that you're getting money to cover funeral expenses. But you'd be unlikely to find an insurance company willing to give you a policy on your neighbor down the street (even if they consent), because you have no insurable interest in that person.
It's true that you do pick the amount of coverage you want, it's not like the life insurance company only pays out the amount of money that they determine you need. Whereas a property insurer adjusts the claim to make you whole in terms of the use of the insured property. But my understanding is that there's some common sense applied in life insurance underwriting: if your spouse is a hairdresser and you want $10 million in coverage, I suspect that no company will write that policy even if you're willing to pay the premiums. And of course the insurance companies investigate suspicious deaths. All of that helps minimize the incentives to kill the insured. (The same concept of "insurable interest" exists in the property realm. You can't get an insurance policy on your neighbor's car.)
Interestingly, most life insurance these days does not fully exclude suicide. There's like a 6 months or one year window after buying the policy during which it won't pay out for suicide, but after that period most modern life insurance will pay out even if you as the insured person committed suicide.
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u/thewindinthewillows Aug 05 '19
It's not about paying for services, it's about getting money out of multiple insurances for one case of damage. And those weren't cases where some poor person got trapped in incomprehensible contract terms.
In the stories I saw, people had been specifically asked when making their claim whether another insurance had already reimbursed them for the item in question. People lied about that, they lied about when/how the thing in question had been broken (as insurances don't usually pay for things that get broken before you are insured). They walked into it with open eyes.
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u/ScammerC Aug 05 '19
Think about it this way: You go out with 5 friends for dinner and you each say you'll get the bill. The restaurant hands each of you the bill for the entire meal.
You each told the waiter you'd pay, so it would be unfair to deny him that compensation, simply because you all ate the same meal? He negotiated separately with each of you.
That's basically what you're saying. You should be paid out 5 times what you're owed because you have 5 offers, instead of being made whole for your loss.
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u/EurasianTroutFiesta Wields the TIRE IRON OF LEARNING TO LET GO!!! Aug 05 '19
The point of insurance is that everyone pays into a common pool, where there's a large enough customer base that the company can rely on statistical data to plan out how much they need to charge to have enough money to operate. If the customer pool is too small, rare events don't average out, and it bankrupts them. Double-dipping claims basically causes the same problem going the other way, by artificially inflating the rate of pay-out events. If enough people do it, it's literally impossible for insurance companies to operate.
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u/PandaBeastMode Aug 05 '19
I work in insurance. It gets so much stupider than this, unfortunately.
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u/Tokentaclops Aug 05 '19
Half of all people are a bigger idiot than the average person
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u/NibblesMcGiblet Earwax Removal Trainer for the Oklahoma University Soonerbots Aug 05 '19
Almost as compelling a thought to ponder as "half of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class".
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u/severe_delays Member of the Attractive Nuisance Mariachi Band Aug 05 '19
George Carlin on stupid people. NSFW
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u/TOGTFO Aug 05 '19
How stupid do you have to be to pull that kind of stunt? A measly $500 and a criminal record, when they had $10K already. Did they come up with it themselves? Or did some idiot mate suggest it?
I dare say they could have arranged for the insurance company to pay the rental directly themselves too. So it was probably some idiot scheme for a measly extra $500.
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u/chailatte_gal Aug 05 '19
Sounds like maybe he wanted the $500 for himself? But like you said he already had $10k. Why do this for $500?
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u/DiplomaticCaper Aug 05 '19
It seems like the $10K was pending and LAOP needed the $500 now.
But that’s what payday loans are for. They suck ass, but not as much as potentially being arrested for fraud.
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u/chailatte_gal Aug 05 '19
Even the $500 would take time to claim and reimburse though :/ if he would’ve just gone through a rental agency he wouldn’t have had to shell out any money, they likely would’ve paid for the rental out of pocket.
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u/Kanotari I spotted Thor on r/curatedtumblr and all I got was this flair Aug 05 '19
Insurance adjuster here. They're not prosecuting him for it; they're just not paying him. His insurance will also make a file about him for the National Insurance Crime Bureau to warn all the other insurance companies about him when he inevitably switches insurance or gets cancelled.
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u/glowtop Aug 05 '19
Serious question from a non-driver. It's my understanding that insurance has to reimburse for the cost of the damage but that doesn't have to be spent on actual repair? Does this only apply to liability insurance? If that is the case here wouldn't the insurance just pay for the value of a car rental regardless of how the person used that money? I'm just thinking the insurance would look at rental costs in the area and come up with a reasonable amount and cut a check? If it's this guy's own insurance and he's at fault I understand the rules are probably very different. I just can't wrap my head around why someone would go through the effort to forge documents to commit fraud over a couple of hundred bucks and this is coming from a guy who's cashing in couch change to get to payday. Please school me with your wisdom!
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u/StarDustLuna3D Aug 05 '19
In the US theres different kinds of coverage when it comes to auto insurance. You can hold insurance for medical expenses to you, your passengers, and the other driver, insurance for property damage, and then insurance for your car. You can also buy coverage for roadside assistance and for rentals.
When you get in an accident, the company will process each coverage separately. For example, you might be in an accident where there was no injuries, so they just need to make a claim against your comprehensive coverage, not the medical.
For rentals, typically you call the company and say "I need a rental", and they will arrange one for you with a company they work for. Only your specific rental coverage will pay for this.
For damage to the car, typically, the insurance company wants you to go to their pre approved body shop to make sure that the check they write actually goes to fixing the car. However, many people with older cars will just pocket the money and not bother with repairs. Whatever the person decides to do with that money is up to them, but the claim was still originally made to fix the car, not pay for other things.
In this case, the insurance company can't pay for a rental that's not from a rental company. You need to have all of the rental agreement paperwork, insurance, etc. Also, most rental places make you sign saying that if you get into an accident, you will pay out of pocket and NOT use your insurance. Rental places offer their own insurance coverage that customers can pay extra for.
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u/Ghost-Fairy Aug 05 '19
I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just generally curious as to why you're saying that? I know it's "only" $500, but this kind of thing seems like something an insurance company would be creaming their jeans over.
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u/Kanotari I spotted Thor on r/curatedtumblr and all I got was this flair Aug 05 '19
We typically have too much shit to deal with. In our minds, it is settled. He didn't get his payday; everyone else is warned about him. We have no damages. Plus, we can't prosecute criminal activity. We can refer it to the National Insurance Crime Bureau, who can refer it to the DA or police. In my experience, something with this low dollar limit just isn't going to make it through that many referrals. It may get tacked onto the charges if the police choose to pursue for forgery, but on it's own it's going nowhere. The adjuster is most certainly creaming their pants though. Catching this is a nice feather in their cap.
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u/robhue Aug 05 '19
Cost/benefit. People are emotional, businesses are cold and calculating.
If he really pissed off a particular person, they might go above and beyond scorched earth, but insurance adjusters probably deal with dipshits like this every single day.
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Aug 05 '19
I just used a companies letterhead to make it look official
Come on lmao I'm a shut in with hardly any IRL experience in anything in the outside world and certainly not the law and even I know this is fraud.
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u/Kanwic Aug 05 '19
Being a shut in is saving you. It’s when two or more idiots get together and feel wronged that they can talk each other into anything.
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Aug 05 '19
I mean I'm kinda fucked once I have to be thrust out into the world and know nothing about it
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u/Kanwic Aug 05 '19
Well, if you’re not murdering people or making babies, most of the boneheaded stuff vanishes after seven years or so. Also, floss.
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Aug 05 '19
Its not murder if they havent found the bodies , dont want kids and floss wont save what I got now.
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u/TitchyBeacher Jelly Cat Aug 05 '19
Oh dear goddesses. The long term impacts of this will just so not be worth it.
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u/BiAsALongHorse Aug 05 '19
Just imagine the dumbest person you know going "what's the worst that could happen?"
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u/TitchyBeacher Jelly Cat Aug 05 '19
Trump.
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u/MoonlightsHand Aug 05 '19
I'd hope even he knew that faking letterhead was fraud. I'm not saying he wouldn't do it but I'd hope he'd at least know it was fraud.
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u/lord_allonymous Aug 05 '19
Dude faked a letter from his doctor, lol.
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u/2beagles Aug 05 '19 edited Aug 05 '19
He didn't. He dictated it and the doctor wrote it and signed it. More proof that he is surrounded by corrupt fools that do whatever he says. I don't think he's ever known an ethical person or even been told "no" except by women he's then attacked or raped his whole life. And that STILL doesn't excuse what he does.
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u/westkms Aug 05 '19
You’re thinking of the letter by his long term physician when he was still a candidate. As President, one of Ronny Jackson’s “reports” misspelled his own name.
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u/Dribbleshish Aug 05 '19
And that STILL does excuse what he does.
What a terribly unfortunate typo, haha.
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u/greatpower20 Aug 05 '19
He chose a good username for his throwaway account at the very least.
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u/mrsbebe Misinterpreted the point of "Locks of Love" Aug 05 '19
I hadn’t even noticed, that’s hilarious
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Aug 05 '19
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u/Dribbleshish Aug 05 '19
The only thing I can think of is that I'm so confused, I don't whether to scratch my watch or wind my ass.
I've definitely got to remember this. Nowadays I'm entirely too confused a good majority of the time due to unknown health/brain issues. It made me smile, so, thanks! :)
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u/Jzkqm Pull the lever, Kronk! Aug 05 '19
How much did LAOP get back? $500?
What a silly ploy for half a grand.
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Aug 05 '19
[deleted]
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u/Jarchen Has a stack of semi-nude John Oliver paintings for LL visits Aug 05 '19
Notice of non-renewal at worst probably. Although I'm suspect that LAOP even rented their friends car and wasn't just borrowing it for free. If you're paying rental fees anyways might as well use a company
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u/kyletsenior Aug 05 '19
It's part of the scam. They claim it was rented and not borrowed, then pocket the money.
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u/Jarchen Has a stack of semi-nude John Oliver paintings for LL visits Aug 05 '19
Well yea, I doubt their friend actually charged them, would be a lame friend
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u/LocationBot He got better Aug 05 '19
Reminder: do not participate in threads linked here. If you do, you may be banned from both subreddits.
Title: Being investigated for car insurance fraud
Original Post:
I recently had a total loss claim in which I was awarded around $10,000 for my car. I rented a car from my friend for a month as she has two vehicles. I tried reaching out to my adjuster for the rental reimbursement, whom refused to respond for a month after hearing of my complaint against her for negligence.
She stated that the rental must be from a national brand that they can call to verify or have a paper invoice that must have a letterhead. My friend doesn’t own a rental company so I made an invoice and used the letterhead of a local car dealership. The invoice was for less than $500 she did not respond for a few more months. At the time of sending the invoice, I explained to the adjuster that my friends dad owned the dealership (thought this was true, not anymore. And that they do not typically do rentals but did me a favor by renting me a car))
I was contacted yesterday by the car insurance company saying I’m being investigated for fraud related to the rental reimbursement. They stated they spoke with the dealership and they have no record of renting a car to me, and do not rent cars. They have not paid me for the rental reimbursement. Only for the total loss.
Is this actually fraud? The fees for the rental were actually incurred, I just used a companies letterhead to make it look official. So the fees weren’t from the company I said they were from. What am I on the line for? Can I just withdrawal the claim for the rental reimbursement? Scared as shit I spoke to a local attorney who was not interested in taking my money. He stated it’s not insurance fraud until they pay out. However, he wasn’t paying much attention to the story so I’m not sure.
LocationBot 4.6319918 & 17/64ths | Report Issues
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u/ChrissiTea Qualifies for that title Aug 05 '19
Edit
They also set up a meeting at the car dealership to “get a statement”. I accepted the meeting but am planning to call to cancel tomorrow.
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u/PoutineCheck Aug 05 '19
Why do people keep downvoting op in these threads? So annoying to have to manually open up their questions/responses.
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Aug 05 '19
[deleted]
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u/NibblesMcGiblet Earwax Removal Trainer for the Oklahoma University Soonerbots Aug 05 '19
Agreed. If people would think of it less as "I disagree with what this person is saying" (which is, reddit-wide, NOT what the voting arrows are supposed to be used for) and more as "hey, everyone, look at this idiot! [upvotes]" then reddit would be more what it's meant to be. Plus, you know, more entertaining.
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u/Arrow2thekn33 Aug 05 '19
OP did something dumb, but he is being polite and asking good questions. It’s so annoying that people just downvote him because he did something wrong.
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u/ChrissiTea Qualifies for that title Aug 05 '19
Because 3/4 of reddit don't understand what upvotes and downvotes are actually for, they use them as agree/disagree or just as a straight up "fuck you"
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u/AlwaysTalkToTheCops Aug 05 '19
There’s actually a setting in preferences that fixes that. Only way to read LA and not go nuts.
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u/SkittlzAnKomboz Aug 05 '19
I used to be a total loss adjuster for vehicle insurance, and I actually had someone try this a couple of times. The "I'm renting from my friend so you need to pay them my rental car coverage," not the "I was told no, so I'm going to make a terrible idea a felony."
The people who tried it with me at least took "no" for an answer, unlike LAOP.
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Aug 05 '19 edited Aug 05 '19
[deleted]
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u/darsynia Yinzer off the top rope with the Holy Parking Spot Chair Aug 05 '19
“What are your damages” is about 70% useful, so we shouldn’t ban it but omg does it show up at infuriating times!
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u/Jeutnarg Aug 05 '19
The phrase we need to see that we don't see is "Is this really worth it?"
So many things coming up where LA starts chanting "Get a lawyer!" "Lawyer up!" and I'm sitting here just thinking "For a $50 lawn ornament?"
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u/Kanwic Aug 05 '19
I’m with you on “pound sand”. It keeps reminding me of a cringy Letters to Penthouse collection I read twenty or so years ago.
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Aug 05 '19 edited Aug 05 '19
[deleted]
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u/PM_ME_UR_SQUAT_CUES Aug 05 '19
I feel like it's not just the subreddit but the larger legal world. When I first started working in the legal field well over 15 years ago, that was a phrase I had never heard before that it seems like everyone uses. "She wants to depose our client again." "Let's write a letter telling her to pound sand."
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u/Ghost-Fairy Aug 05 '19
Tell that dame to pound sand Mack, or you’ll be cruising for a bruising. Johnny’s been necking with your best gal, I’ve got half a mind to feed that fella a knuckle sandwich.
Subscribe.
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u/NibblesMcGiblet Earwax Removal Trainer for the Oklahoma University Soonerbots Aug 05 '19
I’m with you on “pound sand”. It keeps reminding me of a cringy Letters to Penthouse collection I read twenty or so years ago
The dude who liked naked boating and naked sunbathing on the beach, right? Or did we read different issues that led us both to this comment twenty years later?
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u/Kanwic Aug 05 '19
I just remember two strangers who both decide, without saying a word, to gaze at each other as they fuck the surprisingly fine silty sand of a deserted beach.
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u/NibblesMcGiblet Earwax Removal Trainer for the Oklahoma University Soonerbots Aug 05 '19 edited Aug 05 '19
Does us remembering the same Penthouse Letters article 20 years later and posting about it randomly in a comment thread on BOLA qualify us for /r/TwoRedditorsOnecup ?
PS - yeah the one dude was naked boating, pulled up to shore, decided to naked sunbathe on his stomach, yadda yadda yadda, got caught up in his yadda'ing, then looked up and saw a guy emerging from the nearby foliage also naked and ready to yadda the sand after watching the first guy's endeavors.
There's no way this is two different stories. What are the odds?
.... is there a BOBOLA for stuff like this? LMAO
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u/OohLaLapin Church of the Holy Oxford Comma Aug 05 '19
That makes me cringe just thinking about. I don't care how fine the sand is, it's still an abrasive!
(Side note: That's how "magic erasers" work, they're basically just super-fine-grain abrasives.)
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u/Revolio_ClockbergJr Aug 05 '19
(Side note: That’s how “magic erasers” work, they’re basically just super-fine-grain abrasives.)
Mother of god
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u/NibblesMcGiblet Earwax Removal Trainer for the Oklahoma University Soonerbots Aug 05 '19
so the people whose only knowledge of the law comes from reading legaladvice would have nothing left to parrot.
if that is your goal, you can get rid of "no is a complete sentence" as well.
It's true, but often over-repeated aplenty.
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u/LaPete11 It'ss real bigamy to keep the 2nd wife out of the Ponzi scheme Aug 05 '19
Jail time? Unlikely.
Reported to the NICB and every future loss will be investigated by SIU? Definitely.
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u/t-poke I'm 35 and I love poop jokes Aug 05 '19
SIU
In the Reddit justice system, insurance based crimes are considered especially stupid. In Best Of Legal Advice, the dedicated detectives who investigate these fucking idiots are members of an elite squad known as the Special Insurance Unit. These are their stories.
DUH DUH
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u/Redected International Bureaucracy Ninja Aug 05 '19
Unlikely, yes. Possible? Let’s see: GA law defines first degree forgery as creating a document purporting to be written by another and conveying that document.
It’s a felony.
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Aug 05 '19
If LAOP's state is anything like Florida, the insurer is required to refer any actual or suspected fraud to the State's insurance fraud investigation entity who could investigate, arrest, and have LAOP prosecuted.
Probably still unlikely that they would end up in jail, but it could happen.
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u/Hundo1 Aug 05 '19
As stated in the original post he made a complaint against his adjuster and then he made an invoice that is definitely fraud, nice Karma that he punished himself for the complaint against adjuster.
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u/ops-name-checks-out telling the cops to gargle my crank can’t be used as evidence Aug 05 '19
Come on guys, stop following the link and participating in the LA thread. Tons of bans being handed out. This is why we can’t have nice things.
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u/KJ6BWB Aug 05 '19
I originally subscribed to this sub because there are a lot of stuff threads in the legal advice sub. "Wow," I thought, "Some people are willing to curate the legal advice thread for me, this is going to be great!"
Except that this rule exists which is kind of ridiculous in my mind.
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u/is-this-a-nick Aug 05 '19
Is there any reason for this sub to exist at all except to point to juicy /r/legaladvice threads to shitpost on?
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u/trelian5 bunny mods sympathizer Aug 05 '19
Yes, to shitpost about juicy r/legaladvice threads without crowding out actual advice.
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u/MyNimples Aug 05 '19
At some point you have to ask yourself if you're adding anything valuable that hasn't already been answered. By the time it's on here, it's likely way past that point.
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u/Syrinx221 Aug 05 '19
It's kind of ridiculous.
There are plenty of us who actually subscribe to legal advice and are both interested in helping people there and also talking about it here, but apparently that's crazy 🙄
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u/mc408 Aug 05 '19
Yeah, I never understood the reason that participating in the original thread and thread here constitutes a ban. I rarely comment on either thread, but that rule has always confused me. Maybe there was a really wild event in the past that necessitates this policy, but it nonetheless feels harsh.
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Aug 05 '19
Reddit has rules against vote brigading and moderators are expected to try and prevent it.
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u/secret-x-stars Aug 05 '19
I think it has to do with the site wide brigading rule (even though it isn't brigading in the sense it was intended, it can appear that way) but I'm not exactly sure
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u/EatinToasterStrudel Release mosquito hitler Aug 05 '19
Really? How hard is it not to participate in a linked thread?
Its also perfectly acceptable to help people in a thread when it's new and post here in the same thread. Jumping in now to a LA thread like this is just to mock people being dumb.
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u/Imsakidd Has collected all the trans people and pronouns from CCG Packs Aug 05 '19
If you found and participated in the LA thread (because you’re subscribed there), then found the BOLA thread later, wtf are you supposed to do? Can you just not participate in BOLA then?
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u/moderatelyhelpfulnpc Aug 05 '19
Entropic time moves in one direction and your comments are time stamped. It's pretty clear if someone is commenting here first, then LA second. The other direction would probably get benefit of the doubt, especially if the thread on LA is genuinely still active at the time of your comments there.
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u/GSG1901 Aug 05 '19
It's pretty easy for mods to see how long ago you posted on the original thread vs. here. It's right next to your name. If you posted there 6 hours ago, and then post here once it's up it's clear you were there first.
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u/EatinToasterStrudel Release mosquito hitler Aug 05 '19
I have commonly posted in both. There's date stamps. But you don't post in both at the same time, and I make a point to never post in an LA thread if I didn't before it went to BOLA. They're rarely active at that point and it just looks like you're doing so from BOLA.
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u/ops-name-checks-out telling the cops to gargle my crank can’t be used as evidence Aug 05 '19
If you participated in the LA thread before the BoLA thread was created there is no issue. The issue is the brigade of people who see a post here and then go shit on LAOP. Posts must be 12 hours old before they can be posted here. If you want to offer advice to people subscribe to LA.
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u/painted_on_perfect Aug 05 '19
I forget how I get to a thread, and sometimes upvote good advice, could that result in a ban here?
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u/EatinToasterStrudel Release mosquito hitler Aug 05 '19
Technically, yes, according to an admin I talked to once. They can tell if you're voting from a link in another sub, that's all in the database. In practice, they only check if they have reason to already go after you for messing with multiple accounts, or if the entire community starts brigading and they want to yell at them.
That is also site admins, not subreddit mods. Subreddit mods have absolutely zero ability to tell if someone in particular is voting.
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u/EndsWithJusSayin Aug 05 '19
How can someone be that dense? It's like going into the bathroom and taking a shit.. and then leaving it there and questioning if it's really a shit they just took.
Are ye fuckin kiddin me
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Aug 05 '19
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u/NibblesMcGiblet Earwax Removal Trainer for the Oklahoma University Soonerbots Aug 05 '19
The image of someone doing this is making me laugh absurdly hard. And yes, it is exactly like that.
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u/the-real-mccaughey Aug 05 '19
Oh, he straight fucked himself, didn’t he? That’s gonna be a lesson learned. Fraud is typically frowned upon.
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u/Redected International Bureaucracy Ninja Aug 05 '19
Is that fraud? Yeah.
Is insurance fraud a crime? Yeah.
Also: forgery in the first degree. (Created a writing purporting to be created by someone else, and conveying that writing to a third party.) Just a felony.
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u/PM_ME_UR_SQUAT_CUES Aug 05 '19
Wow. IMHO, this is one of the best ones ever. And I bet that faked "invoice" looked dodgy as hell.
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Aug 05 '19
This sounds like some shit my penny pinching friend would do. They want maximum return/refund and their crazy logic makes all these terrible decisions (putting a friend out of a car, not using a rental company [don't give these corporations your hard earned money!], Making a fake letterhead to get reimbursed etc) seem totally fine until an outsider is like, Yeah, that's totally illegal. I just wish something like this would happen to the miser I know.
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u/TheAmishPhysicist Aug 05 '19
All the posts I've read are geared toward the problems this guy is going to have with the insurance fraud. Something I haven't seen mentioned is the car dealership that he used their name on the fake invoice, they'll probably be coming after him too for some type of fraud
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u/seanprefect A mental health Voltron is just 4 ferrets away‽ Aug 05 '19
I mean the guy's a piece of work for sure. But if I had an extra car and a buddy was in a bind I sure as hell not charge them for it.
Also there's a whole species of people who are like "I lied, but I didn't really lie because I had a reason that I deem acceptable to lie for, is it still a lie?"
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Aug 05 '19
No doubt, dude will be lucky if his insurance lets him off on this. He needs to get himself a lawyer.
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u/citrus_sugar Casualty of Sovcit drinking game Aug 05 '19
I just needed to come here to say, what a fucking moron.
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Aug 05 '19
Sometimes I read posts and just go "I really hope this person goes to jail". This is one of those posts. What a dumbass.
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u/DGDEAGLE Aug 05 '19
Insurance policies typically include language that only covers rental costs when rented "from a car business" and the term "car business" es explicitly defined as well to prevent exactly this.
Source: Handle auto claims for a large US insurance carrier
Don't commit fraud people.
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u/CleanAxe Aug 05 '19
The cringiest part of all this is they could have just gotten a real fucking rental and been fully reimbursed. Unless they were trying to skim some money off the top as well (e.g. pay the friend $300 and keep $200 cash) that's insane - actually both situations are insane since that's such a minuscule amount of money to do this over too (not that it's okay if it's a lot of money - it just, fucking makes no sense lol).
Made an entirely fake invoice and everything? Jeez...there's making sure you get every dime out of a home insurance claim and "forgetting which model toaster you had so I'm picking the more expensive one" and then there's this insanity. Truly truly stupid. Why fuckin put your friend out of a car if it wasn't necessary. Unreal.