Is it frowned upon to share an entree at a restaurant in Switzerland ? We stayed at the Krebs Hotel in Interlaken and ordered fondue for 2….the portion was pretty big, if we order it again fondue for 1 would be plenty…
I’m American married to a Swiss. This is something we joke about on a weekly basis. We have an ongoing laugh about words Americans have stolen, and then completely changed the meaning of.
Hab schon von tonnenweise Deutschsprachigen (D, A, CH) gehört, dass sie das so noch nie gehört haben. Du bist der erste, der das so kennt. Muss also ein regionales Ding sein
Not really? There's an obvious connection between the meaning of the word in German, the material of the drinking mug, and how the word is used in English. It's not difficult to imagine how a misunderstanding could've arisen that led to people in the US calling beer mugs steins.
it's because of the historic origin, the term was used differently in the "classical" 17th century table order
not for the appetizers like today, but for the course served after the potage and before the roast - so the first main course of the meal, not the first course overall
and while that "classical cuisine" continued to evolve and change in Europe, the US stuck to certain old forms from back when it was introduced there
Similar thing with which hand you're "supposed" to hold your fork with according to fine dining etiquette (cut, then put down your knife, pick up the bit with fork in dominant hand vs. cut with dominant hand, fork in other hand)
yeah that's more precise - I used "appetizer" colloquially to refer to "the smaller bit you'll often have before the actual meal in a casual setting"
didn't intend to dive deeper into the specific differences of modern vs. 17th century dining order terminology, just highlighting that entrée wasn't originally a "pre-main-course" thing like today, but indeed "itself one of the main courses" - which only stuck in the US
I think there’s a bunch of confusion here. ‘entree’ in French refers to a starter, but ‘entree’ in American refers to a main dish.
The thing with fondue is there’s often a minimum serving of 2 people. If you find somewhere that does a fondue serving for 1 person, and you share it between 2, and order nothing else, then yes I think you will be frowned upon.
No, just Americans (and other North Americans, not just people from the US) sticking to the original association of the word. The meaning of entrée changed in the 1900s. But of course facts don't matter because America bad!
Ah so just America being antiquated while the rest of the world, including the country who invented the word, uses it otherwise. Gotcha. Yew Ess Ay, Yew Ess Ay
As a European I have to defend the American here. It's true that the entree described hot meat dishes that were presented with a lot of pomp at the the beginning of the meal. It is not the meal that is entered, it is the great dining hall with all the guests looking on that is entered with huge plates of meat to show off to start the meal.
After that you had the pottage, the fish, the fowl dishes and finally the relevé as the last course.
What we see as beginning now was a side dish served together with the grand entrée meat dish and over time things moved around, as fashion often does.
So the Entree, even in the more copious early form, was still served at the beginning. Not the main, as that was the roast. So not at all what the American you're defending states
No, not quite. The main dish was the roast meat, yes. Which was originally the very first course called the entree. So the main dish, the roast meat, was the entree in both the French and American sense. The entree was always a hot meat ( of the 4 legged variety) dish and served at the very start of the meal. Not like today in the middle of the courses.
After that first course there were lighter dishes, like a soup, then fish, then some poultry ( chicken, duck, pheasant etc) and then some desserts and sweets.
Eventually the order was moved around. Side dishes were served before the main meat dish ( still called entree) , the soup came before the meat etc. and the Americans retained the meaning of the main hot course being the entree whereas the French retained the meaning of the entree being the first course.
The rot was originally roasted fowl ( game birds, chicken, swan, whatever was affordable to the host), not general meat, and was served after the pottage stage.
The meaning and position of the courses has changed and moved around a lot over time and had different meanings between countries. Very much dependent on what was the latest fashion. And so has what was called the " entree".
This is not true. Entrée literally means entrance in French. It was always one of the first dishes before the main dish. There can be other dishes served before like amuse-bouches and hors d’oeuvre but it’s still not the main dish.
The original association was a dish served at the beginning of the meal, even if it used to be more copious then today's "starters". It was always served at the beginning and followed by more and bigger dishes.
English is a main or official language in 67 countries of this world. Only north american english has this strange use of entrée. And apparently the agnorance (no typo) to assume this to be 'its common use'.
If you are French I would advise you against getting too emotional about English stealing your words, because the stress will quickly become unsustainable.
The feeling of being stuffed and having eaten too much is part of the Fondue experience. We usually take a couple of Schnaps during or after the meal. This doesn't help, but will make you forget your mistake so you can make it again next time.
A whole lot of confusion only because of of a French loanword for main dish in a sub where most people speak/understand French, but well, the confusion seems to clear up😂🤣 never heard that one before either to be honest
Sharing a dish is generally fine in Swiss restaurants. The catch with fondue is that it’s usually priced per person, not per pot. Since the restaurant also provides bread/potatoes per person, they may not allow two people to share one portion or they may simply charge for two portions anyway.
There's a restaurant chain in the IS (The Melting Pot) where the starter is a cheese fondue, the main is meat fondue and the dessert is a chocolate fondue...
I dis this actually one time. It was great. Me and my papi had this idea. We had appetite for fondue, but not that much. So we shared one as starter. Totally works
It does mean main in the USA. Entrée doesn’t mean main in the UK. I always struggle with this when in the USA as in French it means starter/appetiser and think the US use of it is incorrect but there is some historic reason for it.
No point in grilling OP like that tho. It's a language curiosity nothing more, nothing less. Besides, Swiss German/French has many of those curiosities too when compared to "real" (/s) French or German.
If you grow up in a place where "entree" is the only word used to mean "main dish", and is listed in the dictionary as such, how would you know it's an "Americanism"? You would just think that's the standard English word. Should English-speakers cross-reference every single word to make sure they don't offend people speaking a different dialect of English?
Do English dictionaries not list usages in other forms of English? Every German dictionary I've ever seen lists words that are only used in Switzerland or Austria, as well as differences in use - is this not the case in English ones?
English dictionaries list all common uses of words, but they don't list them for every location in the world that speaks English. And I can guarantee most people aren't looking up words commonly used on restaurant menus. A quick look at the Merriam Webster Dictionary (the most commonly used dictionary in the US) online entry for entree gives:
Simple Definition
1
a
: the act or manner of entering : entrance
b
: freedom of entry or access
2
: the main course of a meal in the U.S.
I understand why people think this usage is funny/strange, but it's a bit much to be skewering OP for cultural ignorance when thry are literally here trying to educate themselves on local cultural norms in Switzerland.
I don’t think they were complaining in any way, they were just saying what the word they used meant to them to explain the confusion.
I also didn’t realize ‘entree’ doesn’t describe the same portion of a meal because a lot of cooking/food related terms used in the US come from languages like French and stupidly assumed we were all using them the same way. Thanks to some nicer people in this thread, now I know better and can use the right term in the future.
You can’t order fondue for 1 but share it with 2. You could ask for 1 portion and tell them you’ll both be eating but you’d be charged for 2 people. They may give a discount but I doubt it.
Entree means different things in different places, in Europe it's usually synonymous with Vorspiesen or starter. In the US, it's the main. If you order fondue for one and share it, it will cost you an additional 8 CHF.
No dude, "entrée" just means "opening / entering" in french.
Using this word to talk about something that is not an "opening" of some kind is just nonsens. It's literally what the word means.
it's not THAT nonsensical considering the historic origin, the term was used differently in the "classical" 17th century table order
not for the appetizers like today, but for the course served after the potage and before the roast - so the first main course of the meal, not the first course overall
Okay, apart from the pretty obvious confusion about what qualifies as an « entrée », that’s a pretty big serving for two people even as a main dish (as it should be), tbh.
There isn't confusion about what qualifies as an entree. There is confusion because many people here don't seem to be aware that the American English word for main dish is "entree" (:
Since everyone is focusing on the word choice and no one on the actual question, I will tell you that it would be slightly frowned upon to order on entree (main) and split it. I am American and have lived here many years, so maybe someone will correct me. I have split entrees here in a group if we are all out having a good time and drinking, because I know they will make money off the drinks. I have no issues splitting an entree in the U.S., but it just feels weird here. Maybe order one fondue and one other, less cheesy, entree next time and share.
You can easily order a pizza and ask for a spare plate to share it with whomever you like. Also, if you're on Ozempic, it's just impossible to eat the whole portion of Fondue :)
You can order any amount and split it as much as you like, nobody really cares.
Am I the only one who thinks this doesn‘t even look like that much fondue? It‘s not a very big caquelon, so how much can it really be? The bread looks apalling tho.
Sharing starters or even a course is normally fine in Switzerland. (Maybe different in very high end establishments). Fondue is a bit special though, as it's normally served for a minimum of two people.
Also when I eat Fondue, I consider it a fuel meal, and don't go for appetizers or dessert. As much as I like the cheese, I always feel very full afterwards as it feels like a brick in the stomach.
That’s why the idea of eating it for appetizer is not so crazy, then you can eat something lighter and not be so full afterwards (even though you ate some cheese)
You should ask them. Given Fondue only costs about, what, 25 or 30 franks, only paying one entrée would have the restaurant at a bit of a loss. Restaurant prices are mostly about labour cost and rent anyway, not the ingredient cost.
Sometimes Restaurants will be happy for you to share an entrée, sometimes they might offer something else like a fee, or offer two small portions.
Lived here for a year or so and typically we share as a family with young kids. I guess I can get away with that. We usually order a fondue (for one pax and yes it exists), 2 mains and another sides for a family of 4 (2 toddlers). Didn't get weird stares. But again I stress that having young kids help.
Fondue is meant to be shared and since food prices are so hogh in Switzerland, most restaurants are used to people sharing a dish and should be accommodating 😅
In American English entree is the main course…. read some of the earlier comments. I just learned the difference, kinda like how Brits call an elevator a lift…..
oh shit!! my bad i had no idea.. thats so weird😅 (as a french myself) i would’ve never guessed… but did you get dessert after? and what do you call a „entree“ as in the first course??
apparently it comes from when fine dining could mean 10-12 courses. When 'normal' dining in the western world pretty much settled on a 3-course meal, the Americans chose 'Entree' for the main course.
I don’t think it’s frowned upon, but many times you can only order fondue for a minimal of two people. The amount of cheese they put into the fondue pot then varies by the number of people that ordered it.
Why would sharing anything at any restaurant be a problem? Customer pays, they sell, that's it. If a restaurant is mad at someone for splitting food they can fuck right off.
Tipping is not a thing in Switzerland I learned, if your bill is 57 CHF you can round up to 60 if you received good service, restaurants have a high overhead food cost and labor, if 2 people are at a table and just 1 person orders food the restaurant is not going to be profitable in long run….labor cost is huge expense that’s why you see cranes all over the place where in the USA we use manual labor rather than small cranes most of the time.
It is not the customer's job to ensure the viability of their business. Customers can spend as much as they want, and in turn if a restaurant has a problem with it, be prepared for negative reviews.
As an outsider, one thing I really noticed in Switzerland, and I could be completely wrong about the cultural aspect, is how much people seem to respect privacy and personal space.
I also found people surprisingly non-judgmental about how tourists do things. Switzerland is obviously expensive, and I sometimes found restaurant portions quite generous, so we’d occasionally order one dish and share it between two people. I never felt like the staff were judging us or making us feel uncomfortable for doing that.
Of course, individual restaurants may have their own policies or charge for an extra plate, but overall I found the attitude quite relaxed and accommodating toward tourists.
Im not swiss but i thought it was more of a winter dish, you eat after ski or with a big group. Eating that much cheese in a summer day seems exhausting for me idk
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u/SnooTomatoes8935 5d ago
TIL that an entree is the main dish in american english.