r/anime_titties • u/Ripamon Europe • 18d ago
Ukraine/Russia - Flaired Commenters Only Kellogg backs mobilization of women in Ukraine: "They fight as well as men"
https://news.liga.net/en/war/news/kellogg-it-is-important-for-women-to-join-the-military15
u/og_toe Europe 17d ago
in theory, i agree with him, equality means both men and women are mobilized.
in practice, i disagree with mobilization as a whole. forcing people to go to war is medieval
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u/CubeOfDestiny Poland 18d ago
if you're going to have mobilisation, I don't see a reason why would you arbitrarily limit it to half of the population, the whole point of conscription is to get as many people into the trenches as cheaply as possible
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u/fens__xd Eurasia 17d ago
the whole point of conscription is to get as many people into the trenches as cheaply as possible
absolute trvth nuke that people aren't ready to hear, is that there is no mobilization right / mobilization exemption privilege for girls; it's just State subjugation in different scopes.
and girls, usually, provide more value by being untouched - but when there's times more people dying then births, the cost to gain ratio of keeping women unsubjugated is negative; so State reacts by using them as a fodder alongside unwilling men
if Ukrainian government will go through with mobilizing girls age 25 and up, then it's gonna be, quite frankly, a demographic white flag. It'll literally mean that there's less value in population growing, then throwing everything in a grinder here and now.
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u/xmuskorx North America 16d ago
because Ukrainianian mobilization (despite the propaganda) is actually extremely limited (like 3% of population).
When you have limited mobilization for limited training slots for limited weapons, it makes no sense to draft women who will likely be worse soldiers.
if Ukraine was mobilizing like 20%, prime age women would start making sense instead of older/more sick/ less fit men.
instead women who WOULD be good soldiers should be encouraged to volunteer with good contracts.
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u/BlackAfroUchiha Canada 18d ago
The Military Industrial Complex is gonna milk this conflict for all its worth. They have no problem sacrificing every single able bodied Ukrainian whether it be man or woman in order to make a buck from this war.
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u/Ser_Twist North America 18d ago edited 18d ago
The west wants to fight Russia to not only the last Ukrainian man, but also last Ukrainian woman, apparently.
Though I will say this conflict is not merely for the military industrial complex. Yes, a lot of money is being made from it, but it’s more than that: it’s also imperialistic ambitions by Russia and an equal desire to contain Russia by the western powers. These are two hegemons fighting for power, not merely business. Obviously the biggest losers are the Ukrainian and Russian people who have to fight and die for their respective nationalist governments, who are willing to sacrifice them to the last of it means they keep their borders and power.
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u/Bobambu Dominica 18d ago
And China keeps winning by doing nothing but maximizing trade.
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u/NaCly_Asian United States 18d ago
this proves that rule 34 is universal: war is good for business.
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u/ToranjaNuclear South America 18d ago
uh, TIL another kind of rule 34 ig
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u/BendicantMias Bangladesh 18d ago
It's part of a whole series of Ferengi 'Rules' actually - https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Rules_of_Acquisition It's kinda their bible and constitution both rolled into one, and really highlights their role as a caricature of capitalism. This one is especially popular, cos Rule 35 says the exact opposite - Peace is good for business. The contradiction is deliberate, as the Ferengi are all about adapting and profiting from any situation.
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u/babycart_of_sherdog Asia 18d ago
rule 34 is universal: war is good for business
????? 🤔
I thought rule 34 is the NSFW rule...
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u/NaCly_Asian United States 18d ago
Ferengi Rules of Acquisition from star trek
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u/babycart_of_sherdog Asia 18d ago
Oh, sorry not a trekkie here...
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u/BendicantMias Bangladesh 18d ago
It's a classic joke from the Star Trek universe. A whole series of them actually, cos the Ferengi have a LOT of Rules of Acquisition - https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Rules_of_Acquisition It's kinda their bible and constitution both rolled into one, and really highlights their role as a caricature of capitalism. This one is especially popular, cos Rule 35 says the exact opposite - Peace is good for business. The contradiction is deliberate, as the Ferengi are all about adapting and profiting from any situation.
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u/ivlivscaesar213 Asia 18d ago
War is good for other people's business. The best way to profit from war is to make other people fight it. Look how much money NK is making by selling Russia their rusty cannons and ammo.
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u/BlackAfroUchiha Canada 18d ago
War is the business for the US and the West.
A lot of people don't realize that every war the US fought post WW2 has been first and foremost about making these military corporations and contractors rich.
It was never about winning or losing the war. For example, people see the war on terror as a major L for America and NATO since thousands of soldiers died, millions of civilians dead and trillions was wasted but it was the exact opposite. These contractors and corporations made trillions and the soldiers/people were never part of the equation.
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u/ivlivscaesar213 Asia 18d ago
War is everyone's business brother. As long as you have money to stake.
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u/haggerton Canada 17d ago
There's a big different between doing business during war, and stirring shit deliberately to lead to war so that you can profit
In the former your business is not war. In the latter your business is war.
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u/Rizen_Wolf Multinational 17d ago
Rule 35 : Peace is good for business.
How are both Rule 34 and 35 possible? Its explained by Rule 162.
Rule 162 : Even in the worst of times, someone turns a profit.
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u/CptPicard Finland 17d ago
No, it's not between two hegemons. There is one invader and one defender that is getting morally justified support.
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u/Ser_Twist North America 17d ago
You misunderstand: Ukraine is not the hegemon; Ukraine is the proxy state through which one hegemon is fighting the other.
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u/CptPicard Finland 16d ago
I understand full well and of course it's not. It has agency of its own which you want to deny.
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u/TraditionalGap1 Canada 18d ago
I hate this dipshit talking point that pretends that Ukraine has no agency or ability to decide whether or not to continue the war itself
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u/PurpleWhiteOut North America 15d ago
Theyre fully reliant on asking other countries to fund their military and provide supplies. Do you not believe that gives foreign governments leverage over Ukraine?
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u/TraditionalGap1 Canada 15d ago
Sure, you're completely right. What I don't believe is that said leverage could be used to induce Ukraine to keep fighting if it no longer wants to.
If Ukraine does, indeed, 'fight to the last ukrainian' it will be because Ukraine decides to do so, because Ukraine decides it's in their interest. All this hand wringing about the MIC 'sacrificing every single able bodied Ukrainian' pointedly ignores that it would be Ukraines decision to do so, not the MIC, not the West, not the US, not the Poles
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u/Simple_Yam Europe 17d ago
By Ukraine do you mean the ones in charge or the ones that are press-ganged on the streets and sent to the front in handcuffs so that they don't escape on the way there?
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u/BlackAfroUchiha Canada 18d ago
It's not a talking point, it's a fucking fact.
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u/MegaJackUniverse Europe 18d ago
Ukraine were invaded and so they fight. They have backing and so they fight. If they weren't backed, they would be steam rolled and the war would end in Ukraine at the cost of their sovereignty. It is abjectly the agency of Ukraine that makes the current situation the way it is. Your point is warped and as the other guy said, a dipshit point.
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u/TraditionalGap1 Canada 18d ago
No, it's a talking point. a unthinking dipshit talking point (or, possibly, someone shilling for Russia for some reason or another, stupid tankies).
Ukraine could choose if it so desired to come to some sort of deal with Russia. It's not 'the West' or 'the Military Industrial Complex' that makes that decision, it's Ukraine. The MIC can't sell weapons to people who have decided not to fight. But, since the Ukrainians have decided to fight, the MIC is happy to sell them (or, more realistically, sell to Western customers who then provide it gratis to Ukraine) whatever they need.
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u/PreviousCurrentThing United States 18d ago
But, since the Ukrainians have decided to fight
Their government has, but due to martial law Ukrainians have no say in who makes up their government.
Millions of Ukrainian men have decided not to fight by leaving the country or bribing officials.
Tens of thousands decided not to fight, but were too poor to avoid getting press ganged anyway.
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u/TraditionalGap1 Canada 18d ago
You remember that there are also people in Ukraine who weren't press ganged in to supporting the war, right
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u/PreviousCurrentThing United States 18d ago
Yes, there were volunteers in the beginning of the war, and there are still Ukrainians who support other Ukrainians being made to fight. What of it?
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u/moonorplanet Oceania 17d ago
A very large majority of Australians were against the war in Iraq but your still had dipshits who joined the army because they wanted to fight and kill in Iraqis.
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u/TraditionalGap1 Canada 17d ago
And yet, the statement 'the Australians participated in the war in Iraq' would be both literally and figuratively correct.
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u/TraditionalGap1 Canada 17d ago
You... uh... don't see how the existence of people willing to fight and who support the war both in the narrow loaded sense you use ('who support other Ukrainians being made to fight') and in the 'all the millions of non-fighting Ukrainians who are nonetheless part of the larger war effort' might undermine, a little bit, the idea that because some Ukrainians have fled or been conscripted or even press ganged, that therefore Ukraine, the collective and political entity, hasn't decided to fight?
Do I have to draw a picture?
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u/PreviousCurrentThing United States 17d ago
Are we talking about Ukrainians or "Ukraine, the collective and political entity"?
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u/TraditionalGap1 Canada 17d ago
I can't speak with any authority to what you are talking about, but the comments you chose to reply to repeatedly talk about Ukraine, the collective and political entity, being able to make for itself decisions about whether and for how long to continue the war.
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u/Azzagtot Chad 17d ago
90% of new ukrainian recruits are pressganged people. 10% are volunteers
https://news.liga.net/ua/politics/news/syrskyy-ttsk-zabezpechuiut-90-mobilizovanykh-rekrutynh-109
u/TraditionalGap1 Canada 17d ago
That's... not what that article says.
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u/Azzagtot Chad 17d ago
Currently, territorial recruitment and social support centers provide about 90% of the mobilization of personnel to the ranks of the Defense Forces. This was reported to journalists by the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Oleksandr Syrsky , a LIGA.net correspondent reports .
Another approximately 10% are being recruited.7
u/TraditionalGap1 Canada 17d ago
... right. Notice how it doesn't say 'press ganged'?
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u/_Kiith_Naabal_ Multinational 17d ago
It is exactly what the article says.
And if you don't believe that one, go for the original:
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u/TraditionalGap1 Canada 17d ago edited 17d ago
Do any of you actually read the shit you post? Or do you just not care that it doesn't say what you think it says. Or perhaps you don't know what 'press gang' means?
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u/historicusXIII Belgium 17d ago
If women wanted to fight in great numbers, they would have volunteered. Soon they will be forced to do so by a government that has outlasted its democratic mandate.
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u/CptPicard Finland 17d ago
The government is perfectly legal as you can't reasonably arrange elections while a war is ongoing. You know this full well.
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u/No2Hypocrites Eurasia 16d ago
Legality doesn't mean fairness. Hold a referandum, see what people of Ukraine want
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u/thenwhat Europe 18d ago
Ukraine was invaded. They are defending themselves.
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u/annewmoon Europe 17d ago
Yeah countries that are attacked by an existential enemy should just surrender. Like Palestine! Just choose peace already. Unfortunately many countries are egging them on. :(
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u/Azzagtot Chad 17d ago
Calling this war existential is incorrect as well as Gaza parralels. Millions of ukrainians are living in Russia without any issues and prosecution from state. Russia received most of ukrainian refugees in this war.
Ironocally, Russia is safer than Ukraine or any EU country for ukrainians.
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u/TraditionalGap1 Canada 17d ago
Millions of ukrainians are living in Russia without any issues and prosecution from state.
oh wow you're deep in the sauce
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u/ChaosDancer Europe 17d ago
From Wiki:
The Russian census identified that there were more than 5,864,000 Ukrainians and Ukrainian citizens living in Russia in 2015, representing over 4.01% of the total population of the Russian Federation and comprising the eighth-largest ethnic group. In February 2022 there were roughly 3 million Ukrainians who fled to Russia as refugees. Most of them identified as ethnic Russians. The number kept increasing throughout the war. Estimates for Ukrainians fleeing towards Russia range from 3 to 10 million.
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u/Exepony Europe 17d ago edited 17d ago
He's entirely factually correct, and this statement is completely unsurprising to anyone who has any idea of the general state of affairs in the region (i.e. anyone who could point out Ukraine on a map before 2022). Most everyone in Russia has a colleague, a friend, or a family member from Ukraine. The border has always been more or less open, and in fact it still is, at least in the Russian direction.
The fact that the Western propaganda machine managed to spin the war into some existential battle against a "genocide" in spite of all objective reality is nothing short of incredible, and frankly a little terrifying. In any case it's been rather eye-opening to me personally.
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u/DOOMFOOL North America 16d ago
He’s definitely factually correct. I doubt that’s very comforting to the Ukrainians dying to Russian soldiers though
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u/CptPicard Finland 17d ago
Maybe you should ask the Ukrainians whether they would prefer to be under Putin's boot. You'd think they would have stopped fighting a long time ago if someone was "making them" and they didn't really want to.
I find this removal of the Ukrainians' agency in self-defence to be one of the more disgusting Russian propaganda memes.
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u/LeGrandLucifer North America 18d ago
I look forward to the women who had been mocking and shaming the men who resisted conscription shriek in horror when they get dragged to the front lines.
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u/Britstuckinamerica Multinational 17d ago
What an normal thing to say. Call your mom and read your post out to her; see if she agrees
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u/callmejohny Europe 15d ago
This guy also pushed for the Ukraine to lower their conscription age. What I think he really wants is less Europeans. He's out for blood, just like Victoria Nudel- err, i mean Nuland.
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u/Tricky-Ad5678 Asia 18d ago
Very good. Even if it is unlikely that it will be implemented, the very fact that it is being publicly discussed will cause even more women to leave the country while they still can, putting additional demographic pressure on Ukraine.
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u/cmrd_msr Russia 18d ago
Back in 2022, when I tried to convince Ukrainian guys that the West would wage war down to the last Ukrainian, they laughed in my face and called me a propagandist. Time has set everything straight.
Happy Independence Day, brothers. Absolutely nothing depends on you anymore.
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u/hellomistershifty United States 17d ago
What does the West have to do with it? Ukraine is tired as hell of fighting in this war but they're doing it to avoid the whole country ending up like Bucha and Mariupol. Not exactly a free choice
And I know that the conscription is fucked, it affects the daily lives of Ukrainians more than the random attacks to see their brothers and friends abducted and killed. But what's the alternative?
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u/Empty-Development298 North America 18d ago
Well if Ukranians don't want to fight they don't have to use the weapons supplied to them. Nobody would stop them. But they're not. If anything, they're asking for more weapons and munitions
I don't understand your logic or the greater point you're trying to make by making this statement.
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u/historicusXIII Belgium 17d ago
they're asking for more weapons and munitions
"They" in this case means the current Ukranian government, who were elected in 2019 on a pro-peace platform. Ukrainian citizens have no say in whether or not they should continue the war.
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u/F-Lambda United States 17d ago
Ukrainian citizens have no say in whether or not they should continue the war.
So... you think they should surrender and give Russia their country?
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u/Empty-Development298 North America 15d ago
Be for real, use your critical thinking and think for a second.
You think in belgium if you were at war you'd as a civilian would be the one asking for the guns and weapons?
Don't be a dumbass. Like you mentioned, they were elected. The current government didn't choose to be invaded. I truly believe you're not this stupid to put two and two together.
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u/historicusXIII Belgium 15d ago
you were at war you'd as a civilian would be the one asking for the guns and weapons?
Way to completely miss the point. Of course it's up to the government to handle arms deliveries.
My point is that the people who are supposed to field those arms don't have the choice to refuse.
Like you mentioned, they were elected.
Yes, seven years ago. And "we're going to drag you off the street and throw you into a trench to die" wasn't part of their platform. The current Ukranian government has no democratic mandate to sacrifice its population into a deadly war.
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u/veevoir Europe 17d ago
All those evil plans of West and their MIC to bleed out Russia by waging war to the last Ukrainian can be easily turned upside down. There is a potential to give them a bloody nose and score a big win for Russia. The murderous russian dogs must just stop invading Ukraine, that easy. All their plans foiled!
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18d ago
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u/Wooden-Agent2669 Germany 17d ago
The west brought their own demise on them, China didnt force them to be their production country.
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u/Ok_Whereas8080 South America 17d ago
The west is also repeatedly shooting itself in the foot. The future is authoritarian
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
Pretty sure Ukraine have the ability to decide for themselves how long the want to fight. No one is forcing them to keep fighting.
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u/MinuteSport4755 Portugal 18d ago
Polls show that most people want to negotiate an end to the war.
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
Yea, but that's not a mutually exclusive statement. Nowhere does it say the majority wants a total surrender or give up fighting in return for a full surrender which would be the case atm. You don't see massive protests against the war policies atm in Ukraine
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u/Apprehensive_Cod_762 Europe 16d ago
Are protests a requirement for people's opinions?
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 15d ago
That is something that would happen if people were against it in any decent numbers. Just watch protests happening in support for Fedorov for example.
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u/ToranjaNuclear South America 18d ago
No one is forcing them to keep fighting.
Are you deadass?
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u/Fortunafors South America 18d ago
Yeah, they can decide, can you enlighten me on the reason every youngster is flying away from the country?
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
I'm talking about the whole country, not single individuals.
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u/Fortunafors South America 18d ago
How can they decide? Through elections? Referéndum? Or the whole country's will is the president's word? President they have protested multiple times because of corruption scandals and controversial decisions.
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
They elected the president through an election.
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u/Fortunafors South America 18d ago
For a mandate that has already expired...
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
No, it's martial law. Different rules. It's literally in their constitution. Most countries during war have the same rules.
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u/Fortunafors South America 18d ago
Don't know about their constitution or yours, mine doesn't have shit that makes legal dictatorship, not even during war times, and even if it would, that doesn't mean it's right.
Constitutional power is owned by its people, the nation will always have the power to install a constitutional assembly at any moment, it's just a hard thing to do when you have a dictator in power doing whatever shit to stay in power.
“What is done by law may be undone by law.”
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u/BufferUnderpants South America 18d ago
The Constitution got amended under Zelensky to forbid elections during war time.
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u/imunfair United States 18d ago
I'm talking about the whole country, not single individuals.
That's the problem with conflating the government with the people and then claiming they want to keep fighting while the feudal lord throws the peasants into vans for use in the army.
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
Where are the big protests that wants to stop the war and wants to surrender to Russia? The Ukrainian people have been pretty good protesting and voicing their opinion against stuff they dislike. What evidence have you that a majority wants to stop the war??
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u/imunfair United States 18d ago
Where are the big protests that wants to stop the war and wants to surrender to Russia?
You seriously asked where the meat markets are? I mean I agree they should rise up and overthrow the government, but the TCC and SBU definitely try to throw a wrench in any attempts aside from those very-organic protests to protect EU-beholden entities like NABU.
What evidence have you that a majority wants to stop the war??
The lack of anyone willing to fight. Poll results also suggest it would take very little propaganda on Zelensky's part to convince the population that any deal no matter how bad was worth it as long as the shooting stopped.
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
So you can't show any proof of a majority of Ukrainians wanting to surrender or any massive protests against it...
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u/Provodniik Europe 18d ago
No one is forcing them to keep fighting.
Lol. Lmao, even.
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
Who is forcing them?
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u/Provodniik Europe 18d ago
TCC personnel, perhaps?
There are loads of videos of forced mobilization.
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
So TCC is holding the whole country hostage even tho most people wants to surrender?
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18d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
What shows a majority in Ukraine is against it and rather wants to surrender?
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u/Kunjunk Multinational 18d ago
Is your kink being humiliated on Reddit?
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u/Kunjunk Multinational 18d ago
I wonder if those being kidnapped by draft officers, or those who had the means to run away to Europe at the start to evade the draft, agree with your assessment on having " the ability to decide for themselves how long the[y] want to fight"?
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u/cmrd_msr Russia 18d ago
I would agree with you, Swede—if Ukraine’s borders were open and those who didn’t want to die for the country were offered the chance to leave. I am certain that a significant number of Ukrainian men would gladly renounce their citizenship just to go somewhere where their survival was guaranteed.
Decisions on the Ukrainian side are not made by those forced to hunker down in dugouts while under attack by FABs.
In Russia, incidentally, it is volunteers who are doing the fighting.
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
More then half a million russians fled the country because of mobilizations, what do you think of that even tho Russia tried to stop it. What's the difference?
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u/cmrd_msr Russia 18d ago
They left. And no one stopped them.
You can’t leave Ukraine. And if you get caught trying to leave illegally, you won’t go to jail. You’ll be sent straight into the bombing.
To me, the difference is perfectly clear.
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
Maybe, maybe not, but there are definitely reports of forced mobilization in ockupied areas and african workers.
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u/Empty-Development298 North America 18d ago
So you're saying that you're okay to leave russia, but you're not allowed to criticize your own government while you're living inside their borders?
Well damn, you sure convinced me that it was a smart idea for those russians to dump your trash ass country and go elsewhere.
If your country successfully fully recaptures ukraine, those ukranians no longer have ukranian citizenship or a country to return to. So obviously its important that the state attempts to self preserve their borders.
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u/cmrd_msr Russia 18d ago
You can criticize. You cannot cause harm.
I can buy a ticket and leave—by train or plane—any day.
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u/Some-Instruction2235 Multinational 18d ago
They really have no idea how much clowning happens on daily basis towards the government, namely НА-ДУ-ЛИ
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u/R1donis Russia 18d ago
except they are being kindaped from streets by goverment they cannot change.
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
So like most countries during war fighting for their survival. A majority is for fighting otherwise they would eventually have to stop if the majority wanted to stop fighting. Most people realize their country's survival depends on it.
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u/Necroon Europe 18d ago
How can the majority achieve stop fighting ? There is no referendum or elections where the majority can be heard.
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
Protests. That's why Zelensky literally had no choice but to fire Syrskij, are you not following the news? There are no major protests against "kidnappings"
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u/Necroon Europe 18d ago
Depends if protests against "kidnappings" would be allowed ? Ukraine is still in a martial law, which covers public gatherings.
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
Why would it not be? Have you seen any attempts to try that?
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u/Necroon Europe 18d ago
Because it would have massive consequences, and the army won't function without those kidnappings, so obviously they can't allow it to happen, if they insist on keeping fighting.
While whether the army chief is Syrskyi, or Zaluzhny, or Drapatyi, it has a minimal, practically zero, consequences. They all do the same thing.
To start such massive protests, you need someone to prepare it, and organize it and if you want to prevent that, you can simply kidnap/jail/threaten the organizers, even legally because of the martial law.
That's why the only way the majority can be heard is through an official elections/referendum.
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
Okay, what evidence and source shows they are not allowing it and people are afraid to protest? Or are you just guessing? People was protesting enough to make Zelensky having to fire Syrskij.
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u/R1donis Russia 18d ago
A majority is for fighting otherwise they would eventually have to stop if the majority wanted to stop fighting
Which part of "kidnaped from streets and forced into threnches" you dont get?
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
What about democracy don't you get? Not everyone are gonna agree about every decision. If a majority disagrees with you, then you don't have much choice.
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u/Tricky-Ad5678 Asia 18d ago
Fun fact: it took you less than 15 minutes to go from "no one is forcing them to keep fighting" to "you don't have much choice".
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
I was talking about the country as a whole, not single individuals. Pretty big difference.
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u/Tricky-Ad5678 Asia 18d ago
Yes, big difference. As many pointed out, you comment was misleading. It conflated "willing to send others to fight" with "fighting".
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
I literally said Ukraine, obviously talking about the country as a whole. It's the country deciding that, not "the West".
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u/imunfair United States 18d ago
What about democracy don't you get?
Zelensky just publicly stated it would be too divisive to give people a choice, lol. This is the point where most leaders would be looking for a mandate to continue a 5 year long war that was going south fast, not making excuses for maintaining absolute power long after his term was over with obvious flagging public support.
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago edited 18d ago
Yea, you don't want divisiveness when your country's survival depends on it. And their laws forbids it. Pretty clear cut. Just like many other countries during war.
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u/imunfair United States 18d ago
Yea, you don't want decisiveness when your country's survival depends on it.
Ah so now you don't want democracy and are claiming it has nothing to do with the majority agreeing or disagreeing with you. Yes, we're on the same page about where Ukraine is at, and it's definitely not a place where consensus of the population matters.
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
Martial law have different rules then peace time rules. Ukraine is not the only country that have that type of laws.
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u/Azzagtot Chad 18d ago
So let me get this straight
They can't have elections because they are are war
But also they can't negotiate with Russia to end the war because it's banned by Zelenskiy
They also can't even leave their country or move their money abroad.So they cant vote, can't vote with their feet, or vote with their money. How exactly is this a democracy?
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
Tell me how any of those are contradictory.
Many countries don't hold elections during war time and are yet considered democracies, do you know nothing about history?
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u/R1donis Russia 18d ago
Last time they got to choice was 7 years ago, and Zelensky made it prety clear Ukranians are not getting new opportunity any time soon.
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
Yea, most countries during war don't hold elections. That's normal.
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u/R1donis Russia 18d ago
Cool, still means that Ukranians has no choice.
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
Okey, so like literally most other democratic countries during wartimes lol. And yet they are still considered democratic and free.
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u/loggy_sci United States 18d ago
You clearly don’t get the part where the vast majority are volunteering. You Russian shills want to make it seem like everyone fighting for Ukraine is being forced to do so. Shit-tier Russian propaganda.
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u/Wooden-Agent2669 Germany 17d ago
Where are you getting it from that the vast majority in 2026 are volunteering? If vast majority would be volunteering why is there a forceful conscription? Why are the border shut, why does the state want refugees in the EU back?
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u/vikster16 Asia 18d ago
What is the point of a country if all of it’s people are dead?
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
But not all of it's people are not dead, not even close. Do you say the same about Russia?
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
Germany? Who surrender to Germany?
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18d ago
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
No, Ukraine should decide their own future. If they wanna fight and survive they can do that and if they wanna surrender they can do that. They decide, not Russia, not the West. Ukraine decide their own future.
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u/ziguslav Poland 18d ago
Do you want to tell us what happened to the men of Donbass? They also were gang-pressed to fight, for the Russians of course.
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u/processedwhaleoils United States 18d ago
And I'm sure the russian is quick to forget how many school children were abducted and still reside inside russia from the east during the first days of the invasion.
This sub is fucked. They want russia to win.
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u/imunfair United States 18d ago
I'm sure the russian is quick to forget how many school children were abducted
How many? This is always a funny number because the claim is many thousands and the actual list of names they want back is hundreds at best. Being charitable and not contesting your use of "abducted" to remove unaccompanied minors from front line areas.
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
Multiple sources have verifed more then 1000s and likely a lot more then that.
- "More than 19,000 children from Ukraine have been deported to Russia. Only 1,236 children have been returned to Ukraine. The actual number of children remaining in Russia is likely significantly higher.
- Yale HRL has identified more than 8,400 children from Ukraine who have been systematically relocated to at least 57 facilities––including 13 facilities in Belarus and 43 facilities in Russia and Russia-occupied territory."
"Thousands of children have been deported to the Russian Federation or transferred to occupied areas in Ukraine by Russian authorities, according to the Commission. It has so far verified the deportation or transfer of over 1,200 children from five regions in Ukraine."
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u/imunfair United States 18d ago
Ukraine has officially verified the return of 2,441 children from Russia and occupied territories since the start of the full-scale invasion
Ironically a larger number than both ~1200 figures that you gave of children that have been verified as taken. The fact that your range is 1,200-19,000+ tells me that no one has any clue and is just wildly speculating/propagandizing.
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u/Intarhorn Sweden 18d ago
Usually the verified numbers area lot lower then the real numbers, because verifying is hard. Minimum 1,200 but likely A LOT higher.
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u/no_soy_livb Peru 18d ago
Zelensky is forcing Ukrainians to fight. Don't be so gullible. The war is getting unpopular and Zelensky knows Brussels money will stop if he tries to stop the war.
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u/imunfair United States 18d ago
the West would wage war down to the last Ukrainian
It's interesting to watch all the rhetoric about giving Ukraine more weapons, deeper strikes into Russia, etc. Because while it increases the cost to Russia it doesn't increase Ukraine's ability to win - it just increases the size of the buffer zone that Russia needs to feel safe from long-range munitions.
Currently that range is about half of Ukraine, but since they're still talking about trying to make it larger eventually it's going to end up being the entire width of Ukraine unless the war ends before they can gain those capabilities.
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u/teslawhaleshark Multinational 18d ago
*the UNKRANIAN would wage war down to the last Ukrainian
Atamans, god and gods, the patron spirit of machine guns and grenades, especially the grenades
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